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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Tampa,FL USA

 Olthannon wrote:
I don't know how much it has changed but originally space marines were portrayed as warrior monks,


Technically, they were originally originally depicted as hypo-inducted convicts ala the Sardaukar.

You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Platuan4th wrote:
 Olthannon wrote:
I don't know how much it has changed but originally space marines were portrayed as warrior monks,


Technically, they were originally originally depicted as hypo-inducted convicts ala the Sardaukar.
Hypno-induced convicts that BECAME warrior monks.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
Fully-charged Electropriest





Northumberland

And lo, they became enlightened superhuman murder machines

One and a half feet in the hobby


My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
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 Olthannon wrote:
I don't know how much it has changed but originally space marines were portrayed as warrior monks, reading and writing poetry in their little downtime when not being mental ascetics and killing and purging etc.

Technically, originally SM were totatally-not-copy-paste-from-Dredd space riot cops:



 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Well, CSM aren't exactly as "careful" in the implantation process as Ultramarines would be, and the initiation rites are considerably more brutal.

Careful? More like wasteful To quote CSM apothecary:

"The methods I have developed over the last millennia are more stringent, for we must be pure in our hatred and hard of heart, body and soul. Fewer than one in every thousand survive, and I strive each day to lengthen these odds still further"

So, even if they stolen 2000 sets of geneseed somehow, all Armless would get from that is a single CSM [which makes fanfiction fantasies about splintered collections of warbands that nominally pretend they are still legions having anything resembling HH numbers or wargear, especially old technically advanced stuff, even dumber...]

   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





The Shire(s)

Do implantation failures result in the loss of the geneseed, or can it be recovered for a new victim?

 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
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Lit By the Flames of Prospero






If the gene-seed fails to graft onto the subject then the organ itself should be fine. The subject, less so I'd imagine.
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







Depends on the failure mode I guess. I can see certain circumstances where the implants don’t take or the recipient fails in some other way, and they just get servitorized for a few years until the progenoids mature and can be harvested. I guess a range of the chapter serfs will still be carrying valid progenoids as well.

Also the organs are implanted over time, so any initiates that fail early means the later organs can be put in stasis or something to wait for the next candidate. It would be vaguely interesting to know if the earlier organs are easier to make, and therefore there is a bit of thought having gone in to the workflow (you know, that workflow that some GW staffer randomly came up with about 20 years ago…)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/06 00:00:15


Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in us
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The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Irbis wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Well, CSM aren't exactly as "careful" in the implantation process as Ultramarines would be, and the initiation rites are considerably more brutal.

Careful? More like wasteful To quote CSM apothecary:

"The methods I have developed over the last millennia are more stringent, for we must be pure in our hatred and hard of heart, body and soul. Fewer than one in every thousand survive, and I strive each day to lengthen these odds still further"

So, even if they stolen 2000 sets of geneseed somehow, all Armless would get from that is a single CSM [which makes fanfiction fantasies about splintered collections of warbands that nominally pretend they are still legions having anything resembling HH numbers or wargear, especially old technically advanced stuff, even dumber...]


If he was using Fabius Bile as his apothecary, maybe, as that's who that quote is from. Someone a little less "eccentric"? He'd get a higher survival rate, but not as high as loyalists. CSM live by survival of the fittest, there's no room for weakness in the Legions. So you get less, but stronger survivors. And still plenty, as evidenced by the numbers that reduced Cadia to space dust. As for CSM having "old technically advanced stuff" from the Horus Heresy: are all of those datasheets in the Imperial Armour Compendium "fanfiction fantasies"?
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Irbis wrote:
 Olthannon wrote:
I don't know how much it has changed but originally space marines were portrayed as warrior monks, reading and writing poetry in their little downtime when not being mental ascetics and killing and purging etc.

Technically, originally SM were totatally-not-copy-paste-from-Dredd space riot cops:


Even in the Rogue Trader book (featuring the image above) Space Marines are all described as being warrior monks, with prayer, "private contemplation", cult rituals and whose higher-ups serve as spiritual leaders. - Fortess Monastery description, pages 160-161

Maybe there's some White Dwarf articles prior, but the RT book is pretty early. . .

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





They don’t use the phrase warrior monks these days but I think it still applies especially with chapters like dark angels. They are religious fanatics (each chapter has their own religion really) and everything they do is dedicated to being ready for the next battle. They aren’t sitting around playing Xbox and going to the pub. They might not be the kind of monks we’re used to thinking off when we say warrior monks but I think the show fits
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Tampa,FL USA

mrFickle wrote:
.They aren’t sitting around playing Xbox and going to the pub.


Space Wolves might be. First Ragnar novel even has a fart joke.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/06 11:12:41


You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I really don’t like it when space marines are portrayed as whimsical, it doesn’t work for me. I stopped reading one of the HH books when a space wolf and ultramarine started play fighting in the mess hall and then we’re slapping their thighs and belly laughing, it was like a brown blessed pantomime. I mean the rest of the book was badly written but that was it.
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







Ooooh… interesting. Thesis: Space wolves don’t go to the pub because they are always already in the pub. Discuss

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
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Fully-charged Electropriest





Northumberland

I don't see anything wrong with having whimsical marines, otherwise they'd all be boring sods. In a way it's a good way to humanise that which is no longer human. It's just a narrative tool to create deeper contrast to highlight the differences.

Warrior monk is as good a phrase as any, in a way it's supposed to invoke the classical Spartan, always ready for combat. (Definitely not historically accurate but this is more about the imagery than anything ).

I think the warrior monk part of Space Marines is important because it gives them a dark nobility within a cold, unfeeling galaxy. Much like the Bretonnians, their ideals of chivalry and depictions of fairy tale knights being protectors of humanity are of course brutally underscored by the serf population, harsh and unforgiving rule, eternal suffering and general ignorance.

It's why I quite like the primaris armour having that space knight feel.

Chapters that are seemingly at odds with this are of course created on purpose to give them their own identity. Which is why the Dark Angels and Space Wolves are depicted as rivals because they are two very different arms of the Imperium. Both are almost cartoonlike in their tropes but that is what adds to the satirical nature of 40k lore.

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My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
# The Explorator Fleet of Labrunnia IX #

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





It’s just a question taste, for sure, but for me 40K space marines are boring sods. Absolutely dour and serious and carrying the burden of guilt of 10k years which has made them bitter and psychopathic. Indeed they would not be good company at the dinner table.

But I mostly read about dark angels.

   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






Surely an Astartes that can crack a joke one minute but eradicate a population the next is still in the spirit of 40k? Even so, most Astartes humour is based on sarcasm and at the expense of mortals so it's hardly fun times for all when a Space Marine makes a joke.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/06 13:17:59


 
   
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 Gert wrote:
Surely an Astartes that can crack a joke one minute but eradicate a population the next is still in the spirit of 40k? Even so, most Astartes humour is based on sarcasm and at the expense of mortals so it's hardly fun times for all when a Space Marine makes a joke.


Sounds like a 90s Arnie movie ha


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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/06 15:04:55


 
   
Made in gb
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Which to me should be part of the point, Astartes cracking jokes about their enemies while slaughtering them should at least in some way drive home just how monstrous they are. We also rarely see Astartes have moments of clarity or doubt when it comes to combat, especially against Human forces, where they stop and realise they've just wiped out a city worth of people in less than a day.
"Brothers, this is easier than catching Space Rats with exploding cheese!"
"Haha, indeed Brother."
*moves on to the next town to be razed to the ground*
   
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Birmingham, UK

See: Torgaddon, T.
   
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30k Astartes are less "flash-trained" and more individualistic than modern examples. The lore around this is fuzzy, but I think we begin seeing what become modern Astartes with the Inductarii/Newbloods late Heresy.

Cruel men make cruel warriors make cruel lords. We need to be better.

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