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 VladimirHerzog wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If they stick with the "power levels are a thing now, and everything costs the same amount no matter what" schtick, what effect does that have on summons? Do they just get free units back every time they complete the action, ala reanimated Necrons?

just make "Demon Summoning" a rule that lets you soup demons without breaking purity bonuses

Any daemons, or just daemons specific to that army's allegiance? Because I feel like that could get into the weeds quick.

It should go without saying he means daemons of the appropriate alignment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The new 'Zerkers will be 8 models per box (for the price of 10!)

You heard it here folks; HCCC is making a confident prediction that GW will improve on established practices with an upcoming release, and a CSM one no less! (After all, Plague Marines are 7 for the price of 10, so 8 would be an improvement!)

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It should go without saying he means daemons of the appropriate alignment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The new 'Zerkers will be 8 models per box (for the price of 10!)

You heard it here folks; HCCC is making a confident prediction that GW will improve on established practices with an upcoming release, and a CSM one no less! (After all, Plague Marines are 7 for the price of 10, so 8 would be an improvement!)

You're technically correct is what's funny here.

Still worried it's going to be ridiculously flanderised, full of nonsense called Bloodbath Axewankers and so on, with not so much as a bolt pistol to them.

I feel like 40k is lacking a tank that launches oversized sawblades at the enemy, and WE should totally be the army to get such a tank.

 Jidmah wrote:
I feel like 40k is lacking a tank that launches oversized sawblades at the enemy, and WE should totally be the army to get such a tank.

No.

Stop flanderising Khorne and khorne aligned forces more than he/ they already is and are FFS.

I just want to see ranged capabilities. Too often Khorne followers are just guys with swords and axes yeeting themselves at foes. Khorne is a god of war, and should involve all sorts of weaponry - maybe a focus on ones that spill blood like solid projectile guns, frag shells, bolters, autocannons and the like, but las weaponry should still exist as well. Melee specialists (Beserkers, etc) should definitely exist in the army, and everything should be roughly "above average" in terms of melee (so that even the most range centric unit in the army can be a bully unit in melee), but shooting should exist.

Give them artillery units that lob fragmentation ordnance at their foes, let them take targetters on their own units to allow them to rain death into melees destroying both friend (likely the Khorne themed cultist unit but let marines and the like take them too) and foe. Lets get some Marines toting heavy bolters with big ass chain-bayonets on them, or a tank with a giant plasma cannon on it used to melt down walls, with cultists and the rare prisoner chained to the plasma coills so that Khorne gets his tithe even when it misfires.

Basically instead of S tier in melee, and then nothing in everything else, I hope they go for A+ or S- tier in melee, but B tier in mid range and maybe like C+ in long range.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I feel like 40k is lacking a tank that launches oversized sawblades at the enemy, and WE should totally be the army to get such a tank.

No.

Stop flanderising Khorne and khorne aligned forces more than he/ they already is and are FFS.

In AoS they swing anvils on chains at people. Throwing saw blades doesn't sound odd or special as far as khorn stuff goes.

I'd like to see a unit with flamers. Call them Wrathmurderdisciples of Skullathrax or angry burning brands or whatever. These guys remember how Kharn fractured the Legion on Skalathrax with his flamer. They're really angry about it so they like to set things on fire. Also, if you burn someone you have an easier time collecting his skull if that's your thing.

I agree with the flanderization of khorne in general and it shouldnt happen in a hypothetical general khorne book ala aos (where it does indeed still happen). However havent world eaters always been one of the most flanderized melee psycopaths from day one?

Im not that opposed to the logical conclusion of all this warrior and combat worship being a frothing headcase to be honest, quite 40k! but the csm book at least should have a bit more potential nuance for its khorne forces.

I can't speak about the pre 5ed books, because I never read any, but they don't seem to have a "mild" streak of being crazy berserker, which slowly gets turned in to a "strong" streak of being mindless berzerkers. If you always were a mindless berzerker, then no flanderization accurs

Karol wrote:
I can't speak about the pre 5ed books, because I never read any, but they don't seem to have a "mild" streak of being crazy berserker, which slowly gets turned in to a "strong" streak of being mindless berzerkers. If you always were a mindless berzerker, then no flanderization accurs

Khorne has a pretty onesided background since at least 4th edition, unfortunately. There are merely small references to honorable fight in some of the descriptions of relics or Warlord traits, but the main background in the Daemon Codex outright states that Khorne is about mindless murder all the time.

Early World Eaters carried Bolters into battle, and were not universally carrying melee weapons. I would hope to see this in the codex,



Likewise, a World Eater in the Black Legion novels is a heavy weapon specialist,



It would be neat to see this represented, since imo, the look of World Eaters carrying traditional bolt guns rocks.

Half of my Berzerkers have bolters!

People seem to forget that Khornate Daemon Engines are covered in guns.

Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows. We have to pray that GW remembers that...

I mean I have some hope because Plague Marines got like, 30 melee weapon options - which wasn't 'out of character' by any means but it was still a switch-up from previous incarnations.

 blood reaper wrote:
Early World Eaters carried Bolters into battle, and were not universally carrying melee weapons. I would hope to see this in the codex,

Spoiler:

Likewise, a World Eater in the Black Legion novels is a heavy weapon specialist,

Spoiler:

It would be neat to see this represented, since imo, the look of World Eaters carrying traditional bolt guns rocks.

I remember WE havocs being a fairly regular occurrence across the lore, though there were references to Angron assigning people to carry heavy weapons as punishment to devoid them of the honor of collecting blood and skulls on the front lines.

 blood reaper wrote:
I mean I have some hope because Plague Marines got like, 30 melee weapon options

Unfortunately, thanks to NMNR, you can only have one of each of those 30 in every squad.

http://epic-uk.co.uk/lists/WorldEatersQuickRef.pdf

Well this is the Epic attempt at World Eaters. Most of the ranged firepower comes from armour/demonic armour with khorne worshipping marines (who are not yet berserkers) for some flexibility. World eater destroyers (heavy short ranged weapons) were added with experience of using the list.

The design notes...

Is there any chance that they up the Zerker squad size to 20? That would be hilarious, 20 chain axe wielding psychos running around the board. at 15ppm.

Karol wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I feel like 40k is lacking a tank that launches oversized sawblades at the enemy, and WE should totally be the army to get such a tank.

No.

Stop flanderising Khorne and khorne aligned forces more than he/ they already is and are FFS.

In AoS they swing anvils on chains at people. Throwing saw blades doesn't sound odd or special as far as khorn stuff goes.

Hell, in Necromunda they swing circular saws on chains.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Is there any chance that they up the Zerker squad size to 20? That would be hilarious, 20 chain axe wielding psychos running around the board. at 15ppm.

Wait. When did they shrink it from 20?

Voss wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Is there any chance that they up the Zerker squad size to 20? That would be hilarious, 20 chain axe wielding psychos running around the board. at 15ppm.

Wait. When did they shrink it from 20?

They didnt (yet) but its to be expected that all CSM squads will be capped at 10 instead of 20 once they get their second wound (Plague marines got it, Rubrics got it)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Half of my Berzerkers have bolters!

People seem to forget that Khornate Daemon Engines are covered in guns.

Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows. We have to pray that GW remembers that...

I wonder if the HTH focus is more of a Butcher's Nails issue than a Khorne worship issue.

I’m hoping for a lot of great background in this codex that establishes the culture of the WE as a warband, or multiple warbands.

It’s not codex khorne, it’s codex WE, and should reflect their own unique way of serving khorne, letting the blood flow and collecting skulls. I don’t think they should be a melee heavy army, they should be a brutal army, lots of attacks and mortal wounds. They are butchers but they are butchers with bolters aswell as axes.

EC make more sense as a melee heavy army as they are all about the thrill and sensation of combat, their nerve endings wired into their armour so they can feel every chip and scratch and go loopy over it.

Maybe it could look like this.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

Spoiler:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
So far between 1K sons and Death Guard, I haven't really been all that impressed with the mono-dex models for Chaos.

In terms of sculpts or rules? They might not have the best rules, and I might wish some kits were closer to a proper multi-pose kit, but the overall sculpts have been of pretty good quality, I thought.

Thousand Sons are okay for kits. Whatever happened to Death Guard is just inexcusable.

Not a fan of the Death Guard sculpts? We did get Sassy Nurgling out of them at a bare minimum, and that's good for everyone

Also the Nurgling wearing a Plague Marine helmet but that's besides the point.

...I had that guy down in my head as Sassy Nurgling, but I may have forgotten a second one who has earned that name.

+ + +

I'm not sure how much I expect to end up in a WE 'dex from the current CSM book. I'd say the following are a given, though possibly gaining the prefix "World Eaters" in some cases...
- Kharn
- Chaos Lord (however many varieties are still kicking around - power armour, terminator armour, possibly bike?)
- World Eater Daemon Prince (possibly with its own model, or just using the Khorne head on the upcoming new kit)
- Berserkers
- Possessed
- Basic Chaos Cultists
- Helbrute
- Chaos Spawn
- Maulerfiend
- Chaos Rhino
- Chaos Land Raider
- Khorne Lord of Skulls

I wouldn't be surprised by, but am less sure of:
- Dark Apostle
- Master of Executions
- Defiler
- Chaos Bikes

I'd then probably expect to see the following as well:
- Special non-CSM mortal unit
- Special Terminator unit
- Slaughterbrute (ported in from AOS)
- Possibly introduce Khorngors (done in a fashion similar to the Tzeentch beastmen, so they could do double-duty in AOS, too)
- A WE-specific take on Havocs, or at least some form of ranged-focused PA infantry
- 3-5 new WE-specific characters
- Maybe a special Chosen unit wearing Collars of Khorne?

I think that's my current baseline expectations for the new book - I'm probably missing at least one new "basic" PA unit from my thoughts, too. I'd like to see something like the Cannon of Khorne daemon engine make an appearance as well, but that might be expecting too much.

New models would obviously include new Berserkers, as well any brand-new units.

Didn't GW release some cannibal Khorne cultists for Necromunda?

Could be prime candidates for a unit entry.

Let's not forget that any miniature attempting to one-up Khorne absurdity needs to beat this gem from WHFB:



His unhelmeted head is even better:

I've never seen that model before and yes thats pretty absurd.

So do those count as chain-axes?