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Made in us
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'




Crescent City Fl..

I'm not a fan of the trend. Don't care for GW also dictating what I can field via only providing X models such as was done with the Ork boys.
I guess I knew this was going to happen years ago when someone on da WAAAGH forums said, "I's not your 40K it's GW's 40K". Or something like that. It's more than just the kits and unit options as this point.
The good news is I feel less and less interested in giving GW money for models and rules. And I'm fine with that, which is not something I had ever expected as I was in really deep over the last 25 or so years. I feel like I'm done or that I'm free of the addiction to plastic crack. I have my armies and no desire to add more models and I may just call it quits and "cash out" as best I can.

"Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe, anything at all, you would've hidden from it in terror."
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I mean if you're using GW rules it was never "your game" if you were going to stick to only using the GW rules as written.

However the game you and your opponent choose to play is 100% YOUR game if you want it to be.

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It's GW just trying to cut in on 3rd party weapon manufacturers. It's a garbage trend and they should feel bad, as well as anyone trying to defend them.

No, your defense of "you don't have to buy multiple boxes now" is garbage too. 3rd party is a thing.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




Karol wrote:
[
This doesn't sound to me like being reallycreative, but just wanting to have plasma guns which were the good weapon options.


18 year old me thought my 'warhammer on a shoestring budget' was pretty damned creative with the bits available to me at the time!

And I see your reading comprehension is nil. I neither had the knowledge of the game to determine what was 'good', nor for about 2 years a community to engage with to do the same. Plasmas sounded cool so I made some.

But I^do^ greatly appreciate the solidarity from your similar perspective of warhammer on a budget (sarcasm).


Karol wrote:
I doubt you converted many heavy bolters for your Long Fangs, or what ever else was considered a bad weapon in the past.



Nah, never wanted old Bois in my lists thematically, even if they were good. And back then they weren't.

When I got I to the game properly it was with tau and I converted the hell out of my fire warriors kroot and crisis suits. And tau were the grey knights of that whole era. Didn't stop me playing them.

Karol wrote:

It costs money and takes up time. No one who has to save up models wants to be both told that his army is now pushed 6 months, or more, in to being complet, because they need to paint it first.


Sigh.

Just because you don't ^have^ to do someyhing doesn't mean it's not worth doing.

It costs money and time - welcome to life kid. There are very very few things in life that won't require both. Especially hobbies.

And it won't take 6 months. Jesus christ. It's literally never been easier to paint stuff, both quickly and decently. Primer, contrast, wash, pick out details. You can get a squad done in an evening. Contrast is fantastic. In the meantime, play unpainted but imo it should* be an aspiration to have a fully painted army.

*obvious caveats for disabilities- I know we have a few folks posting here with physical limitations.

Karol wrote:

This is even more a thing, if the person doesn't like to paint. I never heard of any rules saying that in order to paint another box of w40k models, someone has to show up at the store and play 25-30 hours.


When I started, I didn't enjoy painting either. Then I got into it and ground great joy in it. Loving 40k for the game will be a disappointment- imo 'the game' is its weakest aspect. If you want to enjoy this hobby long term, a far more healthy approach is to embrace the other aspects alongside the game to enjoy as well.

Karol wrote:

I never heard of any rules saying that in order to paint another box of w40k models, someone has to show up at the store and play 25-30 hours.


So?

Life is more than 'the rules' karol. Oftentimes there are 'soft' expectations and cultural norms and etiquette that are never written down in any rulebook. For me its a pride thing. I won't field anything Unpainted. To us, it detracts far too much from the immersion.

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The plague marine equipment in the new book quite literally stopped me from buying a DG army to play Crusade with. Which is a shame because I love the build-a-plague mechanic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
It's GW just trying to cut in on 3rd party weapon manufacturers. It's a garbage trend and they should feel bad, as well as anyone trying to defend them.

No, your defense of "you don't have to buy multiple boxes now" is garbage too. 3rd party is a thing.
It's hilarious, because people were buying conversion bits to use... on GW kits. There's not a lost sale in that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/16 18:36:14


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Fixture of Dakka






18 year old me thought my 'warhammer on a shoestring budget' was pretty damned creative with the bits available to me at the time!

And I see your reading comprehension is nil. I neither had the knowledge of the game to determine what was 'good', nor for about 2 years a community to engage with to do the same. Plasmas sounded cool so I made some.

But I^do^ greatly appreciate the solidarity from your similar perspective of warhammer on a budget (sarcasm).

I generally don't understand sarcasm. But I will say it like this. It does seem extremly lucky, that without knowladge of the game, you converted exactly the version of the gun which is the most optimal.




Nah, never wanted old Bois in my lists thematically, even if they were good. And back then they weren't.

When I got I to the game properly it was with tau and I converted the hell out of my fire warriors kroot and crisis suits. And tau were the grey knights of that whole era. Didn't stop me playing them.

But they were your second army, so I assume by then you were 20 plus. I still don't get the whole argument. I am not saying someone can't like to convert or paint their models. I just think that the chance a teen starting the game is not going to start it with conversions projects etc and if they do something it i stuff like, veteran intercessors sgts with thunder hammers are the most optimal load out, there for I need to find a way to make 3-6 thunder hammer for my dudes. I am talking about the avarge player here.



Sigh.

Just because you don't ^have^ to do someyhing doesn't mean it's not worth doing.

It costs money and time - welcome to life kid. There are very very few things in life that won't require both. Especially hobbies.

And it won't take 6 months. Jesus christ. It's literally never been easier to paint stuff, both quickly and decently. Primer, contrast, wash, pick out details. You can get a squad done in an evening. Contrast is fantastic. In the meantime, play unpainted but imo it should* be an aspiration to have a fully painted army.

*obvious caveats for disabilities- I know we have a few folks posting here with physical limitations.


It is 6 additional months to how much it takes to get the army to 2k, that is the problem. If the "army has to be painted" is an enforced rule. And yeah it costs money and time, no problem if it is money and time spend on something you want to do. But if it is money and time spend, because others make you do it, so they and not you, have more fun, on top of that their armies are already painted. On top of that having the army painted lowers it resell value. Most people don't last more then an edition, having a painted or rather a covered with paint models, makes the cash you get back from selling the army smaller. And I don't play unpainted, my army was 100% painted, save for one rhino and one dreadnought, the day I bought it.

When I started, I didn't enjoy painting either. Then I got into it and ground great joy in it. Loving 40k for the game will be a disappointment- imo 'the game' is its weakest aspect. If you want to enjoy this hobby long term, a far more healthy approach is to embrace the other aspects alongside the game to enjoy as well.


Most people don't enjoy the hobby long term. They want to have as much fun as possible playing the game. Stuff like painting etc are additional stuff a lot of people don't care much about. The "healthy" approach to the hobby looks like a mechanism to self explain an investment of time and money in to something, by adding a value to the activity.

So?

Life is more than 'the rules' karol. Oftentimes there are 'soft' expectations and cultural norms and etiquette that are never written down in any rulebook. For me its a pride thing. I won't field anything Unpainted. To us, it detracts far too much from the immersion.

So if forcing someone to play the game, if they just want to paint or convert sounds stupid. Then forcing people who want to play the game to do things they don't want to do, is stupid too. Having rules for oneself is, having rules for oneself. I don't care if someone plays with unpainted or only with painted models. But forcing others to do what you want, because you want to immerse yourself in to something that doesn't exist sounds like something I take medicin for.

also rules are the only thing that makes the world semi bearable, it is non regular and chaotic enough.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The plague marine equipment in the new book quite literally stopped me from buying a DG army to play Crusade with. Which is a shame because I love the build-a-plague mechanic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
It's GW just trying to cut in on 3rd party weapon manufacturers. It's a garbage trend and they should feel bad, as well as anyone trying to defend them.

No, your defense of "you don't have to buy multiple boxes now" is garbage too. 3rd party is a thing.
It's hilarious, because people were buying conversion bits to use... on GW kits. There's not a lost sale in that.

That also stopped me from doing a Plague Marine army. I'm lucky the Terminators I use for Blightlord stand ins don't have any Combi-Weapons otherwise I'd be more pissed.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut







Back in the day, GW solved this problem by having weapons and bits sprues available for purchase. You can still see this with the Baneblade extra sponson kit.

Back when the game was a real wargame I mean.
   
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United States

MaleficentRuler wrote:
Its well liked by the newer and younger players in my area, more than one commented that its how they play anyway as they don't have the cash or time for anything different. Certainly in my area GW is pushing the Scouting/School crowd as a way to get more newer younger players.


This has been my experience as well. Our local GW store is supporting three different school clubs, and the FLGS in the area are also pitching in for the big three as well as for a couple more of the smaller schools. The kids like the simplicity of it, buy the box, buy the contrast paints, build, paint and get on the table. It seems to be doing well.
   
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Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle




 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Back in the day, GW solved this problem by having weapons and bits sprues available for purchase. You can still see this with the Baneblade extra sponson kit.

Back when the game was a real wargame I mean.


I understand your stance when it's about base rules and such (even though I'm not of the same opinion) but in this case I don't think it has anything to do with the "boardgame-trend" but much more to do with GW nowadays being more of an IP company than anything else. They want us to play 40K (TM) exactly as they imagine/ produce it. That's what they learned from the Chapterhouse Incident.
Yes, equipping a GW kit with some spellcrow guns would still give them profit, BUT you're ruining their perfect trademarked product with heretical bits from somewhere else. Don't do that! Build Plague Marines (TM) like shown on the box cover, don't you dare equipping all of them with two knives just because Joe in the modelling department found it funny to build one (and exactly one!) with two knives. GW giveth you what you need and you take it.
   
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Confessor Of Sins




EviscerationPlague wrote:
It's GW just trying to cut in on 3rd party weapon manufacturers. It's a garbage trend and they should feel bad, as well as anyone trying to defend them.

No, your defense of "you don't have to buy multiple boxes now" is garbage too. 3rd party is a thing.


"GW is bad because they're not forcing you to pay someone else even more money to equip your models after they sell you an incomplete product!" is an interesting take.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/16 22:08:01


2500pts
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 Togusa wrote:
MaleficentRuler wrote:
Its well liked by the newer and younger players in my area, more than one commented that its how they play anyway as they don't have the cash or time for anything different. Certainly in my area GW is pushing the Scouting/School crowd as a way to get more newer younger players.


This has been my experience as well. Our local GW store is supporting three different school clubs, and the FLGS in the area are also pitching in for the big three as well as for a couple more of the smaller schools. The kids like the simplicity of it, buy the box, buy the contrast paints, build, paint and get on the table. It seems to be doing well.

I get the strategy but I sure do think they're underestimating the sophistication of their supposed younger target demographic.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
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 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Back in the day, GW solved this problem by having weapons and bits sprues available for purchase. You can still see this with the Baneblade extra sponson kit.

Back when the game was a real wargame I mean.


What really defines a wargame vs. something like a boardgame or an RPG or even a CCG type game is the amount and degree of tedium involved in 'true' wargames.

In this way 40k has never been a 'real' wargame, it was just tedious in a way that approximated or mimicked a 'true' wargame. Now it's tedious in entirely new ways.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Grimtuff wrote:
 Gert wrote:
 blood reaper wrote:
Because it has been part of the wargaming tradition since the beginning, and enriches the game and their enjoyment of it. The fact that people aren't good initially (indeed, that's why it's called a learning process) should not really be considered a barrier.

It might enrich your enjoyment but everyone isn't a clone of you, thank god.
Of my gaming group, two of us enjoy conversions. The other three just want to play the game and very rarely even paint their models. Building models with instructions isn't a barrier because the instructions tell you what to do. Converting has no set of instructions and it is down to the individual. Some people just don't have the converting bug and forcing it upon them is a gakky thing to do.


It's a learned skill just like painting, basic construction, playing the game itself and whole other plethora of things. Or do you consider all of those barriers too as you seem to lack the basic opposable thumbs to attach a gun to a model it's not meant to go on?

There sure are a lot of people in this hobby nowadays that don't like integral parts of it... Sounds like they're in the wrong hobby.


Coming from someone on a forum where 90% of posts are people talking about how much they hate the game, this is super fething rich.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/16 22:25:25


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Made in gb
Bounding Assault Marine




UK

Short answer, no.

Long answer(s)
Spoiler:
First up, the argument of simplifying stuff for new/younger players doesn't really hold much water. Read the Death Guard datasheets without getting a migraine and then claim it's simpler than "X number of models can take gear from a short list".

Second, only allowing what's in the box/multiples of a box is simply daft - no one has ever been restricted from building a what's in the box unit, and the simple truth is that outside of killteam, there is no such thing as a one box army; by the time you have built any army up you have had to by necessity buy multiple kits so there is no justifiable reason to not allow someone to double up on certain gear per unit (as they will have purchased it anyway).

Third, a personal bugbear for me is that treating each box as a single use plastic with no re-usable value for spare parts is both wasteful and removes some of the incentive to be creative with the hobby. I get that some people are not interested in conversions and kit bashes, but that is not a reason to take it out almost entirely.

Fourth, using the nuclear option to tackle the non-existent threat of 3rd party companies is peak dumbness. You cannot complain you lost a race you didn't even enter, so until GW actually makes models to represent the bits they never bothered to produce, they cannot claim "lost sales". Deleting your own IP out of spite instead of treating 3rd party company sales as free market research and actually competing for those same sales is frankly ridiculous. If only GW had a subsidiary company capable of doing short production runs of high quality resin kits that don't have the same up front investment requirements of injection moulded plastic kits, they could even be online only and called something catchy like Forge World.

   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Insectum7 wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
MaleficentRuler wrote:
Its well liked by the newer and younger players in my area, more than one commented that its how they play anyway as they don't have the cash or time for anything different. Certainly in my area GW is pushing the Scouting/School crowd as a way to get more newer younger players.


This has been my experience as well. Our local GW store is supporting three different school clubs, and the FLGS in the area are also pitching in for the big three as well as for a couple more of the smaller schools. The kids like the simplicity of it, buy the box, buy the contrast paints, build, paint and get on the table. It seems to be doing well.

I get the strategy but I sure do think they're underestimating the sophistication of their supposed younger target demographic.


It's not about underestimating the talent of the young, its about providing quick achievements to bolster self confidence and enjoyment. People don't become skilled modellers, painters and gamers overnight. If GW can use methods to make getting into the game easier, to make getting models to the table looking half decent then there's a FAR greater chance of getting more young people into the hobby and keeping them in the hobby. That they will go forward and one day they will be building, converting, painting, basing and more at an advanced level.


Every hobby has the same hurdles that people want success, in some form, early on to bolster their confidence. Yes they still have a lot to learn, but those early moments of joy and positive engagement are EVER so critical to people choosing one hobby over another. Especially when many will not start their hobby with a burning passion; that passion grows over time.

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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I'm flabbergasted that people are actually defending this practice. As for simplicity? Oh yeah! Look at how simple all this stuff is. I can totally see why something so inherently intuitive would be far easier to use than "You can take 3 special weapons from this list".

You want to know how stupid this whole "only what's in a single kit" crap is, look no further than the current Tyranid Codex and the Carnifex entry.

Since the days of Nidzilla in 4th Ed people have been fielding the "Dakkafex", that being a Carnifex with double twin-Devourers. It's a staple of Carnifex armaments, and whilst it may have waxed and waned in usefulness, it's been there for as long as many of us can remember. However, you can't build a Dakkafex from a Carnifex kit. The sprue only has one set of Devourers. You would always need a second Carnifex sprue in order to make the quad-Devourer loadout.

As we got closer to the current 'Nid Codex, a lot of us were worried about GW doing to 'Nids what they've been doing to most of the other armies - namely reducing options based on the asinine sprue limitations - and among those concerns was the Carnifex, given that it was a unit with a wealth of options. But such a future never came to pass (well, it did for the Hive Tyrant, as Tyranid players still need to be punished because the HT was very powerful at the start of 8th), and the Dakkafex remains a legal option in the new book. Why is this the case, especially in a world where units are being restricted based on sprues (or in the case of upcoming Chosen rules, just having their different weapon options turned into a single generic profile)?

It's simple, and it's also really stupid: Carnifexes now come 2 to a box.

It wasn't always the case, but Carnifexes used to come one to a box. That was the norm. Them coming 2 to a box is a (relatively) new development in the life of that kit. And because there are two in the box, that means there are two sets of Devourers, meaning that a Dakkafex remains something you can build and therefore field in a game of 40k.

It's just dumb luck that Carnifexes come two to a box, and as a result kept their options, and is proof positive of how utterly arbitrary* and asinine this recent trend has become.

And people here are making excuses for it. Mind blowing.




*Other examples of it being arbitrary: Scourges & Devastator Squads! They have limited sprue options, but aren't limited in their rules.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/05/17 12:54:10


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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I've said that I don't like it - I hate the loss of the dakka-tyrant. But GW has been doing this for decades. 3rd ed Tyranid codex allowed sniper-fexes - carnifex with two heavy weapons. You had to convert a bit to get both to fit comfortably but you were allowed to do it. Heck that book had a second codex inside that was basically "pay points, do whatever you want". Loads of oversized (synapse node) heads or whole teams of warriors with venom cannons. All done away with.

Sniper fexes have come and gone over the years.

IT's why I say that any model as large or bigger than a warrior should have magnetized arms in a Tyranid army. Not only do you get more milage during an edition out of each model; you can also change up when the edition changes and new random limits come and go.

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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Weird. I didn't mention, reference, name or even quote you, yet you assumed I was talking about you, rose to defend yourself, and then went onto excuse GW's actions. Again. How many times must I tell you Overread: Dakka already has one Kan. We don't need two.

And in a thread where people are getting really annoyed at the idea of needing to convert, you're suggesting casual mass magnatisation!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/16 23:03:00


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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 Overread wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
MaleficentRuler wrote:
Its well liked by the newer and younger players in my area, more than one commented that its how they play anyway as they don't have the cash or time for anything different. Certainly in my area GW is pushing the Scouting/School crowd as a way to get more newer younger players.


This has been my experience as well. Our local GW store is supporting three different school clubs, and the FLGS in the area are also pitching in for the big three as well as for a couple more of the smaller schools. The kids like the simplicity of it, buy the box, buy the contrast paints, build, paint and get on the table. It seems to be doing well.

I get the strategy but I sure do think they're underestimating the sophistication of their supposed younger target demographic.


It's not about underestimating the talent of the young, its about providing quick achievements to bolster self confidence and enjoyment. People don't become skilled modellers, painters and gamers overnight. If GW can use methods to make getting into the game easier, to make getting models to the table looking half decent then there's a FAR greater chance of getting more young people into the hobby and keeping them in the hobby. That they will go forward and one day they will be building, converting, painting, basing and more at an advanced level.


Every hobby has the same hurdles that people want success, in some form, early on to bolster their confidence. Yes they still have a lot to learn, but those early moments of joy and positive engagement are EVER so critical to people choosing one hobby over another. Especially when many will not start their hobby with a burning passion; that passion grows over time.
I don't think any of that applies to providing the option for a different weapon in the squad. I really, really don't.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
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ERJAK wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
It's GW just trying to cut in on 3rd party weapon manufacturers. It's a garbage trend and they should feel bad, as well as anyone trying to defend them.

No, your defense of "you don't have to buy multiple boxes now" is garbage too. 3rd party is a thing.


"GW is bad because they're not forcing you to pay someone else even more money to equip your models after they sell you an incomplete product!" is an interesting take.

You'd have a point if procuring 3rd party bits were actually an expensive endeavor
   
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Hell, acquiring first party bits from a 3rd party isn't that hard. Or expensive.

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"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
A) Just add an extra sprue to each kit to cover the permutations as best as possible.

B) Take the forthcoming Heresy approach, which I for one fully endorse.


The extra sprue would be a great solution. Would make GW more money and would make me happier honestly.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s also a bit uneven. First Born Marines? They’ve not (to the best of my, as ever, limited knowledge) been hit by this. So their Devastator squads can still hyper specialise, even though their kit doesn’t allow you to do that without playing swapsies/3rd party bits.


I can't imagine they'll ever fully apply this to loyalist marines.

The lack of ability to make, say, 3 skitarii squads - 1 with 4 plasma calivers, 1 with 4 arc rifles, and 1 with 4 TUA, is a problem and just makes playing the game more cumbersome.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/17 02:33:46


 
   
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The only odd gear issue Firstborn have is the bizzare Sternguard-sergeants-may-not-take-a-Thunder-Hammer, even though Vanguard, Assault, Tactical, Devastator and even SCOUT Squad Sergeants can take them.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
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The weapons which Dreadnoughts can take also seems to be decided each new codex by reading tea leaves.

They went from the multi-melta being the default option, to not being able to take it even though the Assault on Black Reach model was still available Via Battle of Vedros, back to being able to take it despite there no longer being a model, for example. Meanwhile twin heavy bolters/heavy flamers/autocannons just vanished completely.
   
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 Insectum7 wrote:
The only odd gear issue Firstborn have is the bizzare Sternguard-sergeants-may-not-take-a-Thunder-Hammer, even though Vanguard, Assault, Tactical, Devastator and even SCOUT Squad Sergeants can take them.

It was obviously a balance decision. Sternguard would be broken if you could take Thunder Hammers on their Sergeants.
   
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EviscerationPlague wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
The only odd gear issue Firstborn have is the bizzare Sternguard-sergeants-may-not-take-a-Thunder-Hammer, even though Vanguard, Assault, Tactical, Devastator and even SCOUT Squad Sergeants can take them.

It was obviously a balance decision. Sternguard would be broken if you could take Thunder Hammers on their Sergeants.
With only a single attack more than a Tac squad I can hardly see how it broke the bank. . . especially when Vanguard and Assault Terminators are running around.


 Lord Damocles wrote:
The weapons which Dreadnoughts can take also seems to be decided each new codex by reading tea leaves.

They went from the multi-melta being the default option, to not being able to take it even though the Assault on Black Reach model was still available Via Battle of Vedros, back to being able to take it despite there no longer being a model, for example. Meanwhile twin heavy bolters/heavy flamers/autocannons just vanished completely.
True, true. Although no model no rules sorta explains that, even though there were FW parts for them. But then you have the Multimelta thing so yeah, fiIk.


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 Insectum7 wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
The only odd gear issue Firstborn have is the bizzare Sternguard-sergeants-may-not-take-a-Thunder-Hammer, even though Vanguard, Assault, Tactical, Devastator and even SCOUT Squad Sergeants can take them.

It was obviously a balance decision. Sternguard would be broken if you could take Thunder Hammers on their Sergeants.
With only a single attack more than a Tac squad I can hardly see how it broke the bank. . . especially when Vanguard and Assault Terminators are running around.

You didn't see posts here defending these unit entries with the excuse of balance?
   
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 Overread wrote:
It's not about underestimating the talent of the young, its about providing quick achievements to bolster self confidence and enjoyment. People don't become skilled modellers, painters and gamers overnight. If GW can use methods to make getting into the game easier, to make getting models to the table looking half decent then there's a FAR greater chance of getting more young people into the hobby and keeping them in the hobby. That they will go forward and one day they will be building, converting, painting, basing and more at an advanced level.

Every hobby has the same hurdles that people want success, in some form, early on to bolster their confidence. Yes they still have a lot to learn, but those early moments of joy and positive engagement are EVER so critical to people choosing one hobby over another. Especially when many will not start their hobby with a burning passion; that passion grows over time.

If the concern is about quick achievements and developing skills, maybe part of the School/Scout program should include basic conversion (like weapon or head swaps) to get people started, though I appreciate there may be concerns about modelling knives for that sort of thing.

Hecaton wrote:
The lack of ability to make, say, 3 skitarii squads - 1 with 4 plasma calivers, 1 with 4 arc rifles, and 1 with 4 TUA, is a problem and just makes playing the game more cumbersome.

Quick question ont he Skitarii thing - I know they went up to a 20-strong squad this time around, for some reason, but what was the special weapon ratio before - was it 2/10 total?

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 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army... 
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's simple, and it's also really stupid: Carnifexes now come 2 to a box.
Hot dam I didn't even know about that one. I'm downright impressed at that, albeit in an ironic sort of way; it takes some serious dedication to stupidity to make that happen.

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 Dysartes wrote:
Quick question ont he Skitarii thing - I know they went up to a 20-strong squad this time around, for some reason, but what was the special weapon ratio before - was it 2/10 total?


It was 3/10.
   
 
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