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 Ahtman wrote:

Spoiler:

I still don't get how Stormbreaker was the key to Eternity when Eternity has been around since time began, possibly earlier, and Stormbreaker was forged 6-7 years ago in Infinity War.

Stormbreaker might be new, but the Bifrost isn't. That's why the axe is necessary, it opens the Bifrost.

I swear it's like people deliberately chose not to pay attention to anything in this movie.

It wasn't stormbreaker. It was the Bifrost.

The Bifrost is some other thing that the Asgaurdians use. Heimdals sword could summon the bifrost. Stormbreaker when it was being forged, was said to theoretically be capable of summoning the bifrost (proven true).

The Bifrost is something they utilize, it's not their own invention. The bifrost predates all of them.

Specifically….Heimdall controlled the Bifrost. Literally every time it’s used, they call out to Heimdall to open the Bifrost.

After his death at the hands of Thanos, there was a brief period where no-one could open it.

Didn't Thor use the Bifrost with Stormbreaker in Infinity War? It's not like this power was suddenly pulled out of nowhere for Love and Thunder

Also Heimdall wasn't the only one that could use it, he was just the custodian of the gatehouse. Skurge took control of it in Ragnarok.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Didn't Thor use the Bifrost with Stormbreaker in Infinity War? It's not like this power was suddenly pulled out of nowhere for Love and Thunder

Also Heimdall wasn't the only one that could use it, he was just the custodian of the gatehouse. Skurge took control of it in Ragnarok.

Right, because it was the sword that was the key to summoning the Bifrost (just like Stormbreaker).

He does summon a brief Bifrost in Infinity War to send Hulk to Earth. Can’t recall if he had his hand on his sword.

But as we know with Mjolnir, Asgardian tech doesn’t generate, but helps focus powers. So could be the same thing, and it’s simply safer to use the sword.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
He does summon a brief Bifrost in Infinity War to send Hulk to Earth. Can’t recall if he had his hand on his sword.

But as we know with Mjolnir, Asgardian tech doesn’t generate, but helps focus powers. So could be the same thing, and it’s simply safer to use the sword.

He does have his hand on the sword.

Oh nice! Thank you!

 Ahtman wrote:

Spoiler:

I still don't get how Stormbreaker was the key to Eternity when Eternity has been around since time began, possibly earlier, and Stormbreaker was forged 6-7 years ago in Infinity War.

Don't think about it. Get excited about New Content. Consume Content. Get excited about Next Content.

Just got back from the theater. I’m going to bed so I’ll have to read thru the thread tomorrow, but you can have my initial knee jerk reaction right now;

While overall entertaining, the movie is extremely excessively dumb haha jokey time, and I don’t want Taika Waititi to direct another MCU movie again.

I get the Bifrost part but they showed old painted images of Stormbreaker specifically opening the gate. If they had just said it needed RAINBOW POWAH to open the gate that would make more sense but they had an ancient painting of a (roughly) 8 year old Axe.

The Power Of Prophecy.

 AduroT wrote:
Just got back from the theater. I’m going to bed so I’ll have to read thru the thread tomorrow, but you can have my initial knee jerk reaction right now;

While overall entertaining, the movie is extremely excessively dumb haha jokey time, and I don’t want Taika Waititi to direct another MCU movie again.

Isn't he going to do a Star Wars movie? Given the reactions here, that promises to be entertaining. But at least you won't have to worry about the MCU for a while.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The Power Of Prophecy.

Or insinuation that either Thor or the audience is too dumb to connect the Bifrost with Stormbreaker if they're only shown the former?

 Ahtman wrote:
I get the Bifrost part but they showed old painted images of Stormbreaker specifically opening the gate. If they had just said it needed RAINBOW POWAH to open the gate that would make more sense but they had an ancient painting of a (roughly) 8 year old Axe.

Those were not old ancient paintings.

I guess nobody thought to ask all of those other gods for help during the whole 'half the life in the universe has been wiped out' situation...

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The Power Of Prophecy.

Characters having in-universe access to the script?


Prophecies desperately need to be retired from books and movies (comment not specific to this one). It is beyond a joke that no fictional character has the basic education (or in modern settings, watched films or read books) to recognize a self-fulfilling prophecy and know that its going to go bad.

I was in a discussion recently about RPGs and world building and "chosen ones". People were asking how they handle those kinds of things.

I told them I Darksouls it. There is no real chosen one. Prophecies are propaganda designed to throw people at a problem until somebody eventually makes it through. I am A'Okay with that kind of prophecy and chosen one stuff.

The typical prophecies are real kind of garbage? Nah. Agree with Voss. It needs to go.

 Ahtman wrote:
I get the Bifrost part but they showed old painted images of Stormbreaker specifically opening the gate. If they had just said it needed RAINBOW POWAH to open the gate that would make more sense but they had an ancient painting of a (roughly) 8 year old Axe.

And so?

1) Time travel & dimensional hopping is an established thing in the MCU well before L&T.
Just because you haven't yet been shown the story of how someone wielding Stormbreaker wound up in the past & was seen opening the Bifrost with it.... And we're told "Thor will return...." So maybe you will get to see it happen.

2) Who said Thor used a unique design when making Strormbreaker?

3) As was said, there's always Prophecy.

4) And of course they could've had no deeper thought on the subject than making it easy on a certain % of the audience to grasp.

I do not understand this....

It wasn't ancient paintings. It was on paper. Paper doesn't last that long. That wasn't some kind of engraved mural in stone that would actually hold up to the test of time to some extent. It was a bunch of papers over lapping each other inside of Gorr's house.

Those were his notes, collected over killing, torturing, and interrogating gods looking for the bifrost so he could open the gates to eternity.

This had NOTHING ancient about it. Gorr made those drawings.

stormbreaker wasn't the key to eternity, the bi frost was. Stormbreaker has the power to summon the bi frost so......

Anything that could summon the bi frost could have opened the gate.

As was said above this isn't a plot hole, people just don't pay attention while watching films.

I enjoyed the film, definitely lent into the humour more that others (compare it to thor2!) but made for a good evening out with freinds. which is what a film should provide.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
I guess nobody thought to ask all of those other gods for help during the whole 'half the life in the universe has been wiped out' situation...

this actually opens another question, did half of the gods get snapped too?

 Lance845 wrote:
I do not understand this....

It wasn't ancient paintings. It was on paper. Paper doesn't last that long. That wasn't some kind of engraved mural in stone that would actually hold up to the test of time to some extent. It was a bunch of papers over lapping each other inside of Gorr's house.

Those were his notes, collected over killing, torturing, and interrogating gods looking for the bifrost so he could open the gates to eternity.

This had NOTHING ancient about it. Gorr made those drawings.

That does make more sense. I only saw it once and while ok it isn't good enough to pay just to catch that one scene again.

So what calls Birfrost now? Stormbreaker can but Mjolnir can't. Heimdall's sword did but he is dead and his sword was with him when Thanos blew up the ship so I don't think anyone has that atm.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
I do not understand this....

It wasn't ancient paintings. It was on paper. Paper doesn't last that long. That wasn't some kind of engraved mural in stone that would actually hold up to the test of time to some extent. It was a bunch of papers over lapping each other inside of Gorr's house.

Those were his notes, collected over killing, torturing, and interrogating gods looking for the bifrost so he could open the gates to eternity.

This had NOTHING ancient about it. Gorr made those drawings.

That does make more sense. I only saw it once and while ok it isn't good enough to pay just to catch that one scene again.

So what calls Birfrost now? Stormbreaker can but Mjolnir can't. Heimdall's sword did but he is dead and his sword was with him when Thanos blew up the ship so I don't think anyone has that atm.

stormbreaker as of the movie was easily the most obvious place, Thor is a known individual, reported on in the media, with easily acessable friends and followers. it all adds up to stormbreaker being the obvious target

BrianDavion wrote:
stormbreaker as of the movie was easily the most obvious place, Thor is a known individual, reported on in the media, with easily acessable friends and followers. it all adds up to stormbreaker being the obvious target

I imagine that answers someone's question but not the one asked. The question was what else do we know of that can summon Bifrost?

 Ahtman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
stormbreaker as of the movie was easily the most obvious place, Thor is a known individual, reported on in the media, with easily acessable friends and followers. it all adds up to stormbreaker being the obvious target

I imagine that answers someone's question but not the one asked. The question was what else do we know of that can summon Bifrost?

Nothing else that we know of. Asgard when it existed had that entire rainbow bridge structure manufactured just to wield and summon the bifrost with the sword acting as the key. Heimdal was able to do it once in Infinity war with just the sword but he had to do his little prayer or whatever (Ancestors... let the dark magic flow through me one last time...) and we don't really know what it might have taken out of him to do it that way without the rest of the machinery.

Storm Breaker is the first otherwise mobile and easily accessible source of the Bifrost. Which would explain why someone hasn't gotten to Eternity before this. You would need to break into Asgard. Get the sword. Defend the Bifrost while it fired up and pointed itself at the gates of eternity, and then defend it while it maintained it's beam at the door. Or otherwise find out about and get to Nidavellir and get the dwarves to make you a bifrost summoning something if you even thought that was possible.

Ok, please tell me if there is a memory hole in my head or were the Asgardians said to be no gods (just long lived - 5 thousand years - very technologically advanced aliens) in the first Thor? Same as with the rest of the myths, it was all explained by the ''space science''? And now suddenly we have the gods everywhere, like they were in the myths, and they were always there, with Asgardians being the same?

Guess it applies to any similar species that’s interfered with other planets. If you’re powerful enough, and live long enough you look the same to successive generations of subject, you become a god to them.

Still not amused by the Bao though. That was egregiously silly.

 Shadow Walker wrote:
Ok, please tell me if there is a memory hole in my head or were the Asgardians said to be no gods (just long lived - 5 thousand years - very technologically advanced aliens) in the first Thor? Same as with the rest of the myths, it was all explained by the ''space science''? And now suddenly we have the gods everywhere, like they were in the myths, and they were always there, with Asgardians being the same?

In the first Thor movie Darcy and Jane argue that they could just be technologically advanced aliens to Selvig. Keep in mind that Darcy and Jane don't know what the feth they are talking about.

The Asgardians are like... Space God Amish. They don't do what the rest of the gods or space (society) are doing and keep manufacturing swords and gak instead of guns. Even though they do also make gun (their long ships have them... even though they are long ships). They are just odd ducks. Sitting in their corner of space doing things in their weird old ways.

They may talked about the magic is just science stuff, but they also do still actively refer to themselves as gods.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Guess it applies to any similar species that’s interfered with other planets. If you’re powerful enough, and live long enough you look the same to successive generations of subject, you become a god to them.

Correct but what I meant is that we have now 2 different versions for the gods/all other myth creatures in MCU. In Thor 1 and 2, they all were simply beings from other planets in the multiverse, and their ''magic'' etc. was explained as ''super science'' etc. Even at the time of the Infinity War, beings like ''Dwarves'' are still just creatures of flesh and bones, their tech hyper advanced. Now, we have all those creatures as the very same gods/demons etc. that they were in myths, and all their skills etc. are magical. There is even Valhalla as the afterlife. There is no consistency with the previous movies. Either give us pure comics version with magical creation, Elder Gods, Atum etc. or stay with hyper advanced aliens, but not switch versions with the new director of the movie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AduroT wrote:
They may talked about the magic is just science stuff, but they also do still actively refer to themselves as gods.

Wasn't that either Odin or Loki telling that they are not gods, just living longer than the ''mortals'' in the first movie? At least I remember it so but might be wrong as it was long ago.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Guess it applies to any similar species that’s interfered with other planets. If you’re powerful enough, and live long enough you look the same to successive generations of subject, you become a god to them.

Correct but what I meant is that we have now 2 different versions for the gods/all other myth creatures in MCU. In Thor 1 and 2, they all were simply beings from other planets in the multiverse, and their ''magic'' etc. was explained as ''super science'' etc. Even at the time of the Infinity War, beings like ''Dwarves'' are still just creatures of flesh and bones, their tech hyper advanced. Now, we have all those creatures as the very same gods/demons etc. that they were in myths, and all their skills etc. are magical. There is even Valhalla as the afterlife. There is no consistency with the previous movies. Either give us pure comics version with magical creation, Elder Gods, Atum etc. or stay with hyper advancen aliens, but not switch versions with the new director of the movie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AduroT wrote:
They may talked about the magic is just science stuff, but they also do still actively refer to themselves as gods.

Wasn't that either Odin or Loki telling that they are not gods, just living longer than the ''mortals'' in the first movie?

In the first movie Thor specifically doesn't say it isn't magic. He says their magic and technology are one in the same. They use technology that runs on magic. The Bifrost bridge/sword is a technology built to harness the Bifrost, a magical force and put to use by them. Mjolnir is a hammer, designed by dwarves with some kind of forge-a-brick-with-a-handle-out-of-uru (space magic metal) technology to help Thor to harness and control his inherent magical abilities.

Likewise, moonknight has the Egyptian Gods. Who are magical and have some weird tech too. Moon Knights suit is something. Clearly fueled by some kind of magic, but made out of some kind of crap that could be "technology" if someone understood it.

I don't think we have 2 versions. We have 1 that straddles both tech and magic. Consistent with Thor's description in Thor: The First Thor.