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Just been to see it. No spoilers at this early stage, as I’m still mentally digesting.
Overall, it’s good. Christian Bale is an amazing baddie, and heaven knows the MCU usually hurts for Decent Baddies.
Overall, the second best Thor film. Not quite as good as Ragnarok, and the pacing feels a little off here and there. But overall pretty damned enjoyable all the same. Certainly the pacing stuff is quickly forgotten when the plot rattles on,
If you didn’t enjoy Ragnarok, you’re not going to enjoy this. But if you did, you should enjoy this.
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How is the balance between humor and intensity? My 13 year old daughter really enjoyed Ragnarok, but for some reason is afraid LaT will be intense and not humorous. I told her it's the same director, so it should be a similar tone.
The reviewer I go to said the first five minutes were quite strong and emotionally intense... and then it descended into farce without ever really exploring the issues brought up in the first five minutes.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: There’s plenty drama, plenty laughs. Again no spoilers at this stage.
Vulcan, happy to say your reviewer is talking mince. Plenty of emotion in the movie, and indeed throughout it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and there are two post-credits scenes.
It's four critics whose judgement I trust saying it now. Ideas raised but never explored, payoffs dropped in without proper setup, and a ton of attempted jokes that fall flat on delivery.
May just be that our taste and yours are just that different. If you enjoyed it, don't let my reluctance dissuade you from singing it's praises. As always, YMMV.
Cards on table? There is one scene I think is going to be genuine Cinematic Marmite. I got a real kick out of it, but others might feel distinct levels of cringe.
You’ll know it when you see it. Trust me.
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Cards on table? There is one scene I think is going to be genuine Cinematic Marmite. I got a real kick out of it, but others might feel distinct levels of cringe.
You’ll know it when you see it. Trust me.
There are several in the trailers, so you aren't narrowing it down. The 'Greek pantheon and attendants are overwhelmed by nudity to the point of passing out' already hit ridiculous and 'cringe'
I feel like it's a waste of Christian Bale and his character (arguably the best part of the movie), who did the best he could with as little screentime as he got as Gorr, which is pretty disappointing given how they initially depicted him in the trailers. I feel like there is a distinct lack of character direction (there's a lot of contrivances in the movie which I won't get into detail since we're not going into spoiler territory) and there isn't enough time to breath in the movie without constant quips and jokes, most of which fall flat, and really emphasizes the issues of the MCU formula really outstaying its welcome, especially for a character like Thor who has gone through a lot of changes and it feels like there isn't really any consistency between all the events in the movies he's been through.
I mean it says something when Hemsworth says that the premise of the movie was thought out through the lens of "If a seven-year-old was making a movie, what would you do?"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/08 18:14:28
It was entertaining for it's laughs, but like the other 15+ MCU movies I've watched over the years it usually comes at the expense of everything else. There are upsetting moments and tragic loss in this film, but its hard to be invested emotionally when frequently interrupted with goofy comedy.
Despite having seen all three previous Thor movies, I felt like a stranger to this new entry in the series. And thats also having seen the two Guardian movies as well, who were actually in the trailer and supposed to be part of it, but went walkies after 20 minutes. Thankfully I had watched Infinity War previously and was able to guess as to what may have happened in Endgame and other MCU movies that I missed...
I had more issues with the film but I got what I paid for; comic book heroes goofing around for two hours and must admit it was fun.
Erm….where was Alternate Timeline Gamora? I’m sure she was with the Asgardians of the Galaxy at the end of End Game?
Spoiler:
I'm pretty sure for Gamora that she doesn't end up with the guardians at the end of End Game, the whole point was that Quill and the rest of the Guardians wanted to find her since she took off and never actually helps out with the battle. It's clear that this will be a big plot point for GotG3
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/08 19:35:36
Vulcan wrote: It's four critics whose judgement I trust saying it now. Ideas raised but never explored, payoffs dropped in without proper setup, and a ton of attempted jokes that fall flat on delivery.
I think I started watching the review you are referring to before work this morning.
Probably a wait to stream for me.
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
I'm actually moderately pissed. This was the one MCU flick I was looking forwards to and now the reviews are awful by MCU standards and significantly more critical than the ones for Ragnarok. Incredibly frustrating.
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
Guess I'm gonna break the mold here, because I thought it was fething amazing. Taika actually improved the end of Gorr's story. They make some changes from the story they adapted, but they hit the most important notes for the God Butcher. He's definitely recognizable as the villain from the comics. Bale's performance was amazing, I just wish we got a little more of him. In regards to the humour/serious balance, I thought this was an improvement over Ragnarok. You've still got a joke here and there in a scene that doesn't really warrant it, but especially toward the end the film is not afraid to take itself seriously.
Thor: Love and Thunder was just okay at best. More of a coherent story than Multiverse of Madness, but not as stylistically directed. In my theater a lot of the things that were supposed to induce laughter fell flat. That was kind of awkward.
Overall... a fairly weak MCU entry. It didnt take itself seriously and the steaks never felt significant.
trexmeyer wrote: I'm actually moderately pissed. This was the one MCU flick I was looking forwards to and now the reviews are awful by MCU standards and significantly more critical than the ones for Ragnarok. Incredibly frustrating.
I think between the amount of content they've been shovelling onto D+ and the movies they have planned, there's too much content to get through the level of oversight Kevin Feige originally had for the other previous MCU films, where they had more time to breathe between releases unlike now where I can see there being a lot more MCU fatigue since it feels like the quality has dropped a lot in return for quantity. So unfortunately even with some of the sequel films for existing characters (see MoM for Dr. Strange), the writing has become much more noticeably worse when it comes to plot conveniences and holes.
I can't deny that that explanation does make sense. I do think that part of it is a lack of over-arching big bad a la Thanos so far. Phase 4 seems to be dealing with the repurcussions of Tne Snap and moving forward with their lives and the writing for that simply hasn't been as compelling outside of Falcon and The Winter Soldier which addressed it directly.
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
trexmeyer wrote: I can't deny that that explanation does make sense. I do think that part of it is a lack of over-arching big bad a la Thanos so far. Phase 4 seems to be dealing with the repurcussions of Tne Snap and moving forward with their lives and the writing for that simply hasn't been as compelling outside of Falcon and The Winter Soldier which addressed it directly.
Agreed, we don't really have any macguffins on par with the INFINITY stones either, at best it's just a loosely veiled threat of the multiverse and incursions but it's a very loose thread that isn't held together with a central villain like Thanos.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/09 02:21:53
trexmeyer wrote: I'm actually moderately pissed. This was the one MCU flick I was looking forwards to and now the reviews are awful by MCU standards and significantly more critical than the ones for Ragnarok. Incredibly frustrating.
So go see it for yourself & make your own judgement.
trexmeyer wrote: I'm actually moderately pissed. This was the one MCU flick I was looking forwards to and now the reviews are awful by MCU standards and significantly more critical than the ones for Ragnarok. Incredibly frustrating.
So go see it for yourself & make your own judgement.
Though I would suggest watching it after it comes out on D+ or through other...um..."online means", given that I think it's frankly not worth the ticket atm.
Phase 4 does have a central villain, and his name is Taika Waititi!
Spoiler:
Now if I began this by saying "I liked it more than Ragnarok", some would consider that an example of damning with faint praise. That would be a fair assessment, but I actually don't want to damn this movie with faint praise because I genuinely did like it more than Ragnarok, which was a blisteringly fun movie heavily marred by the most egregious use of bathos I have ever come across (so much so that I learnt the word 'bathos' thanks to that film). And Korg is the avatar of Bathos, the 5th God of Chaos.
So, when we come to Thor 4: Thor on the Dance Floor, we have a number of problems:
1. Taika clearly as no desire to keep the set up he was given at the end of Endgame (Asguardians of the Galaxy), as the Guardians do nothing and vanish from the story just as quickly. Their entire role is relegated to one battle, where they are window dressing, and then one scene on the ship where Starlord makes a gakky metaphor and then feths off with the rest of the team.
2. Taika clearly wants to gak on people who liked The Warriors 3, referring them to "that guy" "that guy" and "whoever that guy was". When Sif appeared I was so worried that he was going to gak all over her as well, but thank Odin she made it out alive.
3. Taika is stuck in the past. Jean Claude Van Damm's Volvo leg split stunt was from nearly 10 years ago, yet it appears in this film. The fething screaming goats meme is 14 years old, yet here it is again. Comedy works in threes, Taika is of the opinion that you should add several digits to that number, and then do it once more in case people missed it.
4. Taika double's down on SOD breaking jokes. Other than Korg's near-movie-destroying monologue over the destruction of Asgard, my most hated line from Ragnarok is the "I'm made of rocks, but don't be afraid unless you are made of scissors" joke. Haha. Yes. He's a rock. Rock/paper/scissors. I get it. It's funny. It's also an Earth-based game that a random alien from another world shouldn't be referencing. It's too colloquial for it to be something anyone outside of Earth culture should know. In this film we meet the god of Korg's race, who has a Game of Thrones style Iron Throne (that show finished in 2019 and vanished from relevance almost overnight - see point 3 above) that is made of fething scissors!!!
So my conclusion is that we were wrong about Phase 4 of the MCU. It has a clear villain, and his name is Taika Waititi. He should stick to non-MCU films, where his films are actually really good (no joke, go and see Hunt for the Wilderpeople - it's amazing!).
So what else happened in Thor 4: Thor's Door? Well, there was a love triangle between a low IQ alien, a hammer, and an axe. I cannot believe I just wrote that sentence. Thor is a fething moron for most of this film, with brief moments of clarity where becomes the respected hero he should be. Other than that, he's repeating the beats from previous films without any of the growth he achieved in those films. So Thor's role in this film is one of duality - half oafish imbecile who pines for a hammer whilst talking to an inanimate object, and half-on task hero who understands the stakes and wants to ensure the safety of his people. The latter doesn't require him to be a bore, but the former requires the audience to forget every other film before this.
And the players are back! It was funny in Ragnarok, so let's do it again but also have Melissa McCarthy play Hela. See? It's funny because it's Matt Damon and he's famous!
The chief bad guy in Thor 4: Gorr goes to Mordor, is Gorr the God-Butcher, and he is suitably creepy but mostly a non-entity for the first half of the film. There's a lot more of him in the second half, so it feels like the balance is off (with the whole film, not just his character). The Necrosword is given about as much respect as the Warriors Three, and is just a means to an end. They obviously can't go into the same level of detail as it's comics origins, but "It kills gods because reasons!" is pretty lame. The shadow monsters were cool, to a point. The issue is that you could never see them. Most of the fights against them occurred at night, in a dark room, or on a planet where there was literally no colour... it made the fight scenes very choppy and hard to follow. That was a poor choice.
I found myself really enjoying Jane's presence in Thor 4: Thor to the Core. Her plotline was very much a "We've only got Natalie for one of these, so let's do as much as we can!", but I think it worked. It was nice to have cameos from Darcy and Selvig, and I liked how it wrapped up. Well, not the Valhalla part, that was more of Marvel movies having a terrible time ever killing anyone, as even the dead aren't really dead. Overall, as something I was worried about when we first heard they'd be doing a Mighty Thor, it turned out really well. Jane was not the main focus of the story, and her naivete with the super-hero-ing side of things helped to undercut it a bit, but not in a Korgian way.
Valkyrie was in this film. She certainly was. She had no arc to speak of other than "Meetings boring. Me want to punch stuff again!". So she did, got stabbed, didn't die (because of course not), and then sat out the rest of the film.
Korg was also in this film. A lot of this film. Too much of this film. My heart rose in praise to the gathered pantheons of many cultures when Zeus smote him with his mighty Thunderbolt, but apparently even the power of the God of Gods cannot topple the Avatar of Bathos, 5th God of Chaos, as we were stuck with his stupid talking fething head for the rest of the movie. And then his body grew back, apparently, because virtually no one ever dies in Marvel films. And then he marries another Krogan... and this one has a giant porn-stash for some reason. More timely humour from Taika.
So far I'm gaking on Thor 4: Gorr's War a lot, which is weird given that at the start of this I said that I genuinely liked it. The thing is, the good in Thor 4: Thor Corps has to be found in the spaces between the bull gak. I liked the plot with the Asgardian children being taken. I really liked Axl, Heimdall's son; he was loads of fun. Thor empowering the kids at the end was a genius move, marred only by the fact that it was another fight scene in the dark. This movie gave me the second thing in two movies that I never thought we'd see in the MCU. The first was Incursions in Dr. Strange 2, and the second was Eternity, who shows up in this movie looking pretty much spot on from the comics. The godly city was a nice touch. Russel Crowe appeared to be having the time of his life playing Zeus and sounding like every Greek immigrant father I've ever seen in Australia. I'm really happy Sif survived. I hope that's not the last time we see Jamie Alexander (maybe she'll get her own overly short, badly paced and barely plotted D+ series?).
I'm not good with the ending to Thor 4: Thor Snores on the Shore. Thor now has an adopted daughter and... ok. That's going to be hard to explain from now on, or are we just looking at yet another replacement character, which seems to be about the only thing Phase 4 is about. Criticisms of this film talked about how they liked how the story ended, just not how the movie ended. I didn't understand what that meant at the time, but I totally get it now, and I agree.
And Hercules? Ok, sure, why not.
So yeah, Thor: Love & Thunder was a reasonably entertaining film that I can look back on and not feel mad about it like, say, Ragnarok or Iron Man 3. Nor was it a movie that squandered its potential and undid its own character like Black Widow. It's not very high up in my rankings of MCU films, and I'm in no rush to see it again (unlike No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness), but it was perfectly above average and I'm happy for it to live there.
Now please, never let Taika direct another MCU film again.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/09 05:45:30
Phase 4 does have a central villain, and his name is Taika Waititi!
Spoiler:
Now if I began this by saying "I liked it more than Ragnarok", some would consider that an example of damning with faint praise. That would be a fair assessment, but I actually don't want to damn this movie with faint praise because I genuinely did like it more than Ragnarok, which was a blisteringly fun movie heavily marred by the most egregious use of bathos I have ever come across (so much so that I learnt the word 'bathos' thanks to that film). And Korg is the avatar of Bathos, the 5th God of Chaos.
So, when we come to Thor 4: Thor on the Dance Floor, we have a number of problems:
1. Taika clearly as no desire to keep the set up he was given at the end of Endgame (Asguardians of the Galaxy), as the Guardians do nothing and vanish from the story just as quickly. Their entire role is relegated to one battle, where they are window dressing, and then one scene on the ship where Starlord makes a gakky metaphor and then feths off with the rest of the team.
2. Taika clearly wants to gak on people who liked The Warriors 3, referring them to "that guy" "that guy" and "whoever that guy was". When Sif appeared I was so worried that he was going to gak all over her as well, but thank Odin she made it out alive.
3. Taika is stuck in the past. Jean Claude Van Damm's Volvo leg split stunt was from nearly 10 years ago, yet it appears in this film. The fething screaming goats meme is 14 years old, yet here it is again. Comedy works in threes, Taika is of the opinion that you should add several digits to that number, and then do it once more in case people missed it.
4. Taika double's down on SOD breaking jokes. Other than Korg's near-movie-destroying monologue over the destruction of Asgard, my most hated line from Ragnarok is the "I'm made of rocks, but don't be afraid unless you are made of scissors" joke. Haha. Yes. He's a rock. Rock/paper/scissors. I get it. It's funny. It's also an Earth-based game that a random alien from another world shouldn't be referencing. It's too colloquial for it to be something anyone outside of Earth culture should know. In this film we meet the god of Korg's race, who has a Game of Thrones style Iron Throne (that show finished in 2019 and vanished from relevance almost overnight - see point 3 above) that is made of fething scissors!!!
So my conclusion is that we were wrong about Phase 4 of the MCU. It has a clear villain, and his name is Taika Waititi. He should stick to non-MCU films, where his films are actually really good (no joke, go and see Hunt for the Wilderpeople - it's amazing!).
So what else happened in Thor 4: Thor's Door? Well, there was a love triangle between a low IQ alien, a hammer, and an axe. I cannot believe I just wrote that sentence. Thor is a fething moron for most of this film, with brief moments of clarity where becomes the respected hero he should be. Other than that, he's repeating the beats from previous films without any of the growth he achieved in those films. So Thor's role in this film is one of duality - half oafish imbecile who pines for a hammer whilst talking to an inanimate object, and half-on task hero who understands the stakes and wants to ensure the safety of his people. The latter doesn't require him to be a bore, but the former requires the audience to forget every other film before this.
And the players are back! It was funny in Ragnarok, so let's do it again but also have Melissa McCarthy play Hela. See? It's funny because it's Matt Damon and he's famous!
The chief bad guy in Thor 4: Gorr goes to Mordor, is Gorr the God-Butcher, and he is suitably creepy but mostly a non-entity for the first half of the film. There's a lot more of him in the second half, so it feels like the balance is off (with the whole film, not just his character). The Necrosword is given about as much respect as the Warriors Three, and is just a means to an end. They obviously can't go into the same level of detail as it's comics origins, but "It kills gods because reasons!" is pretty lame. The shadow monsters were cool, to a point. The issue is that you could never see them. Most of the fights against them occurred at night, in a dark room, or on a planet where there was literally no colour... it made the fight scenes very choppy and hard to follow. That was a poor choice.
I found myself really enjoying Jane's presence in Thor 4: Thor to the Core. Her plotline was very much a "We've only got Natalie for one of these, so let's do as much as we can!", but I think it worked. It was nice to have cameos from Darcy and Selvig, and I liked how it wrapped up. Well, not the Valhalla part, that was more of Marvel movies having a terrible time ever killing anyone, as even the dead aren't really dead. Overall, as something I was worried about when we first heard they'd be doing a Mighty Thor, it turned out really well. Jane was not the main focus of the story, and her naivete with the super-hero-ing side of things helped to undercut it a bit, but not in a Korgian way.
Valkyrie was in this film. She certainly was. She had no arc to speak of other than "Meetings boring. Me want to punch stuff again!". So she did, got stabbed, didn't die (because of course not), and then sat out the rest of the film.
Korg was also in this film. A lot of this film. Too much of this film. My heart rose in praise to the gathered pantheons of many cultures when Zeus smote him with his mighty Thunderbolt, but apparently even the power of the God of Gods cannot topple the Avatar of Bathos, 5th God of Chaos, as we were stuck with his stupid talking fething head for the rest of the movie. And then his body grew back, apparently, because virtually no one ever dies in Marvel films. And then he marries another Krogan... and this one has a giant porn-stash for some reason. More timely humour from Taika.
So far I'm gaking on Thor 4: Gorr's War a lot, which is weird given that at the start of this I said that I genuinely liked it. The thing is, the good in Thor 4: Thor Corps has to be found in the spaces between the bull gak. I liked the plot with the Asgardian children being taken. I really liked Axl, Heimdall's son; he was loads of fun. Thor empowering the kids at the end was a genius move, marred only by the fact that it was another fight scene in the dark. This movie gave me the second thing in two movies that I never thought we'd see in the MCU. The first was Incursions in Dr. Strange 2, and the second was Eternity, who shows up in this movie looking pretty much spot on from the comics. The godly city was a nice touch. Russel Crowe appeared to be having the time of his life playing Zeus and sounding like every Greek immigrant father I've ever seen in Australia. I'm really happy Sif survived. I hope that's not the last time we see Jamie Alexander (maybe she'll get her own overly short, badly paced and barely plotted D+ series?).
I'm not good with the ending to Thor 4: Thor Snores on the Shore. Thor now has an adopted daughter and... ok. That's going to be hard to explain from now on, or are we just looking at yet another replacement character, which seems to be about the only thing Phase 4 is about. Criticisms of this film talked about how they liked how the story ended, just not how the movie ended. I didn't understand what that meant at the time, but I totally get it now, and I agree.
And Hercules? Ok, sure, why not.
So yeah, Thor: Love & Thunder was a reasonably entertaining film that I can look back on and not feel mad about it like, say, Ragnarok or Iron Man 3. Nor was it a movie that squandered its potential and undid its own character like Black Widow. It's not very high up in my rankings of MCU films, and I'm in no rush to see it again (unlike No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness), but it was perfectly above average and I'm happy for it to live there.
Now please, never let Taika direct another MCU film again.
Yeah, Taika is perfectly fine when it's for legitimate comedies with silly characters like in Jojo Rabbit, but when you have someone like Thor that needs some actual nuance to his character that isn't just him being a dude-bro, (especially given the aftermath of having pretty much everyone he loves having died and Jane being potentially next) it's really dumb that he doubles down on Thor being a caricature of himself even though it looks like they resolved that in Endgame.
trexmeyer wrote: I'm actually moderately pissed. This was the one MCU flick I was looking forwards to and now the reviews are awful by MCU standards and significantly more critical than the ones for Ragnarok. Incredibly frustrating.
I would ignore those reviews; Love & Thunder is hardly a step down from what they've been doing already. It would be like saying Attack of the Clones is a step down from The Phantom Menace...
trexmeyer wrote: I'm actually moderately pissed. This was the one MCU flick I was looking forwards to and now the reviews are awful by MCU standards and significantly more critical than the ones for Ragnarok. Incredibly frustrating.
So go see it for yourself & make your own judgement.
Though I would suggest watching it after it comes out on D+ or through other...um..."online means", given that I think it's frankly not worth the ticket atm.
Opposite opinion on being worth the ticket. I saw it in the afternoon, so (in my area) somewhat cheaper than evening prices.
Did I see Oscar-bait? No.
Was I entertained for two hours? Yes.
I got at least as much value for my money as I get on a trip through Starbucks....
trexmeyer wrote: I'm actually moderately pissed. This was the one MCU flick I was looking forwards to and now the reviews are awful by MCU standards and significantly more critical than the ones for Ragnarok. Incredibly frustrating.
So go see it for yourself & make your own judgement.
Though I would suggest watching it after it comes out on D+ or through other...um..."online means", given that I think it's frankly not worth the ticket atm.
Opposite opinion on being worth the ticket. I saw it in the afternoon, so (in my area) somewhat cheaper than evening prices.
Did I see Oscar-bait? No.
Was I entertained for two hours? Yes.
I got at least as much value for my money as I get on a trip through Starbucks....
I mean Starbucks is already a place I never go to since I find everything is upcharged for subpar drinks and food, so not a good comparison for me haha
If you can get cheaper prices by all means feel free to go, but I heard how bad MoM was and I watched it online and it was definitely one of the better decisions for me to not have wasted money AND time on something that I felt wasn't worth the two or so hours I lost from it.
Vulcan wrote: It's four critics whose judgement I trust saying it now. Ideas raised but never explored, payoffs dropped in without proper setup, and a ton of attempted jokes that fall flat on delivery.
I think I started watching the review you are referring to before work this morning.
Probably a wait to stream for me.
Yeah, I'm almost certainly going to catch it at some point as well, preferably for free or as close to free as I can manage. And going in with such low expectations might allow me to derive some enjoyment out of it.
Much as I enjoy Waititi’s fare, I do get why others just…won’t. I’ve better things to do with my time and the next person’s time than argue that toss. Especially given comedy is incredibly subjective.
His stuff chimes with me, and so I’m predisposed to enjoy, and possibly be more forgiving as a result.
I do stress I’m not holding L&T up as genius, perfect film making. It definitely has its flaws, they just don’t bother me, personally, all that much.
I still say watch it if you’re on the fence. The bum notes are, for me, heavily outweighed by the masterful concertos. Though I must also stress the scene I enjoyed the most is definitely going to be Marmite. I loved it, as I love Marmite. A deep, abiding love of which I cannot get enough of. But if it leaves a sour, eye crossing and rolling into the back of the head taste in others? I absolutely get it. Because the very thing I absolutely bloody love about it, is the very thing that will have others utterly despising it like they just kicked your Nan, stole your Kidney, and interfered with your pet.
Sod it. It’s on wide enough release. I can spoiler the specific scene.
Spoiler:
It’s the final big fight scene. Where Thor bestows the Power of Thor upon the kids. I. fething. Loved. It. Just everything about it. To see kids terrified by a total knobber. Who picked on them because he decided they were his trump card, suddenly get the strength they needed, and then Get Their Ming On cheered my sad old soul no end. Especially the kiddo with the Cuddly Toy shooting deathbeams through its eyes. Given what the Asgardians have been through, to see their youngsters get their moment to shine just…..works for me.
If you’ve rolled your eyes at this spoiler and haven’t seen it? Just watch it.
If you’ve rolled your eyes at this spoiler but have seen it? Do you see what I consider it serious Marmite?
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