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My Deathwatch Captain is about to be made illegal for the second time in three Codexes...

BrianDavion wrote:
every time it happens people complain. People, understandably, don't like having some of their minis made "obselete" even if you admit it's proably, long term, for the best, it still stings

Probably for the best:
*The change from 2nd edition to 3rd edition. Loads of stuff made obsolete, but the crazy "anyone can have anything" rules needed reigning in. Completely understandable from a balance point of view.
*Purging datasheets from the game that have never actually existed as models, for example chaos marines riding steeds of slaanesh. The only version of no models no rules that is palatable.

Probably not so much for the best:
*Having wildly different wargear options for similar function models (i.e. space marine sergeants) based only on "whats in the box", when the entire range is by design cross compatible.
*Immediately pulling a "there is no war in Ba Sing Se" and deleting stuff from existence the moment a model goes out of production. Not based on balance, not based on player feedback, just literally I cannot be bothered to keep making that.
*Buffing units rules to increase demand for said product, selling out existing stock, then legending said unit. For example assault marines suddenly git gud in the 10th index, and behold - like clockwork they are now a primaris unit. With fewer options so you cannot counts-as your old collection.

It stings as the jeopardy is always on the player these days, and few to none of the actions taken have any basis in game balance or fun hobby time.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
My Deathwatch Captain is about to be made illegal for the second time in three Codexes...

Deathwatch has been terrible for this since they got turned into an army in 7th. The number of models that work, then don't then do since the 7th launch is pretty silly. That's not even taking into account specific loadouts; I'm just talking about what's actually allowed in the army.

 Insularum wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
every time it happens people complain. People, understandably, don't like having some of their minis made "obselete" even if you admit it's proably, long term, for the best, it still stings

Probably for the best:
*The change from 2nd edition to 3rd edition. Loads of stuff made obsolete, but the crazy "anyone can have anything" rules needed reigning in. Completely understandable from a balance point of view.
*Purging datasheets from the game that have never actually existed as models, for example chaos marines riding steeds of slaanesh. The only version of no models no rules that is palatable.

For the record, they made those in metal while the Realm of Chaos books were published.

Reference images, if you'd like to see the options: http://www.solegends.com/citcat1991b/cat1991bp256rcslmounts-02.htm
Edit: And the other, necessary part:
http://www.solegends.com/citcat1991a/cat1991ap111chaosrenhorse-02.htm

Moar rulez!










Well that's nice.

Not really sold on Shadow Masters (partly because the magic of 'be a foot away to get bonuses' makes no sense to me, and in game, staying a foot away isn't really up to you).

Stormlance looks interesting, but the article suggests that some Strats and Enhancements are mounted units only. I'd rather not saddle myself with restrictions.

The Stormlance Task Force, for instance, contains several Enhancements and Stratagems geared towards Mounted units like Outriders and Invader ATVs. However, their Detachment Rule Lightning Assault doesn’t require that keyword, so all your units can charge turn after turn.

Enhancements can only go on Characters. There's only one bike-mounted character...

So...

Looks fun.

We expecting the codex/new stuff to be announced Sunday? Feels like we are at that stage.

 Nevelon wrote:
Looks fun.

We expecting the codex/new stuff to be announced Sunday? Feels like we are at that stage.

Elarin from TGA outright said it'll be next week's preorders.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Enhancements can only go on Characters. There's only one bike-mounted character...

So...

Are they removing the captain on bike?

They're future-proofing for the Bike Lieutenant that'll be released with the 2.0 codex.
The 2.0 codex where they remove those Enhancements!

Didn't we already have the -1 to hit over 12" before, and it was FAQ'd out..?

So these all continue to highlight just how bad the First Company is.

I'm liking Advance and Charge, but I'm also still really liking Advance and Shoot plus +1S to shooting in 12"

Voss wrote:
Not really sold on Shadow Masters (partly because the magic of 'be a foot away to get bonuses' makes no sense to me, and in game, staying a foot away isn't really up to you).

True, but it is really meant to be used on armies that don't want you to stay away. Armies with strong close-range shooting and close combat benefit. Diminishing the damage an opponent's long range weapons have until you can close the gap is helpful. Plus, it lends durability to any assets you keep in the backfield yourself.

Wind-swift evasion is superior to phantasm... it has none of the restrictions piled on it.

Will be interesting to see if they nerf it when it comes out.

Enhancements can only go on Characters. There's only one bike-mounted character...

So...

True, but there are other mounted characters.

Champions of Russ is a garbage detachment anyway.

Justyn wrote:
True, but there are other mounted characters.

That aren't wolves?

yeah garenteed the mounted stuff will require a biker keyword and won't apply to TWC

I am going to have to ponder how Fall Back and Shoot/Charge all the time for Stormlance Strike Force is somehow equal to the Gladius Strike Force Doctrines that allows your army to do it one turn per game? Are those two other doctrines over 2 of the other 4 turns actually equal to having that ability all the time?

I think on average, assuming the strats and enhancements aren't "absolutely god aweful" the stromlance detachment is going to be "on average better" HWOEVER we might find that gladius combined with the adaptive stragety strat is something that a really good player who really knows what he's doing and how to leverage the various doctrines will be able to get more out of gladius

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Justyn wrote:
True, but there are other mounted characters.

That aren't wolves?

Talonmaster still a thing?

Dudeface wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Justyn wrote:
True, but there are other mounted characters.

That aren't wolves?

Talonmaster still a thing?

They aren't Mounted - they're only available in a Landspeeder.
Which also means they won't exist by this time next year now that the Landspeeder is discontinued.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Justyn wrote:
True, but there are other mounted characters.

That aren't wolves?

Talonmaster still a thing?

They aren't Mounted - they're only available in a Landspeeder.
Which also means they won't exist by this time next year now that the Landspeeder is discontinued.

Yeah I assumed they'd have Mounted given that they're mounted on a landspeeder. But I don't think the enhancement has to be on a mounted character to affect or benefit them necessarily. Even if it is a weird choice.

 Hellebore wrote:
Wind-swift evasion is superior to phantasm... it has none of the restrictions piled on it.

Will be interesting to see if they nerf it when it comes out.

Not even slightly superior. Phantasm was any unit anywhere at end of Movement phase. Marine version is only after something in Move Unit step that puts them within 9" of the marine unit. Phantasm use case was whatever the hell you liked. Marine version is only really to stop charges and doesn't stop those from Deep Strike.

yeah garenteed the mounted stuff will require a biker keyword and won't apply to TWC

There is no Biker keyword. Only Mounted.

However, all Space Marines are drilled day and night to fight in whichever way fits the mission best, and that’s why in the upcoming Codex: Space Marines all seven Detachments can be adopted by any Chapter that sees fit.

Not how the basic Marine detachments work my dude.
For any of the basic detachments you can use any Chapter supplement, you just can't take two Chapters within the same detachment.
So the Stormlance would absolutely be usable by a Space Wolves army with Thunderwolves and Canis as its leader.
The Supplement detachments do have those restrictions such as the Black Spear for Deathwatch which disallows your more standard units like Tacticals or Devastators.

Were you replying to me Gert? I agree completely. What in my post made you think I didn't realize that?

Apologies if I am misinterpreting your response in some way.

I was replying to the initial post before you edited it.

Yeah, it was worded badly. Besides GW said what needed to be said.

 alextroy wrote:
I am going to have to ponder how Fall Back and Shoot/Charge all the time for Stormlance Strike Force is somehow equal to the Gladius Strike Force Doctrines that allows your army to do it one turn per game? Are those two other doctrines over 2 of the other 4 turns actually equal to having that ability all the time?

I believe Stormlance lets you fall back and still charge, but not shoot. The Gladius version is more limited in when you can use it but stronger when you do. Also, the Gladius Strike Force has a stratagem that lets you put a unit in a specific Doctrine, which means even after you've used the Tactical Doctrine you can still get a unit out of combat and have them act normally if you need to.