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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/08 10:31:37
Subject: Are the PDF actually that bad?
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Calculating Commissar
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Regarding super heavies. The mainline Guard super heavies will be rare in PDFs, like Baneblades, for the reasons stated. But many vehicles are out of favour with the Guard and rarely used due to supply constraints. They may even be local to a given region.
The Malcador is a good example:
It is rarely used in the Guard of the 41st millennium, so most examples are found in Munitorum stockpiles (like Vraks) or PDFs.
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ChargerIIC wrote:If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/08 10:38:05
Subject: Are the PDF actually that bad?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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Flinty wrote:
I also thought that the descriptions in the Cain book Death or Glory were great. The governor is responsible for holding the planet, and in this case made good plans with lots of equipment caches and stockpiles scattered around to enable PDF units to fight on regardless of where an attack came in. Its analagous to the massive Soviet stockpiles.
Yep and not every world is going to have the resources and commitment to stockpiling and army building on that scale and sustain it without the rest of their economy collapsing. Or, as noted, having the Tithe suddenly come and steal a huge amount because they've got loads and there's a war two sectors over that needs it. Or the noble/political groups applying pressures to divert resources to their own agendas; selling off the stockpiles on the sly; or flat out forcing the ruling power to change direction (or a small coupe) to try get control.
Lets not forget this isn't a few decades we are talking about; this is hundreds of years that you have to stockpile, maintain, store, train, retrain (not everyone can be life-extended) etc... That's a long time for pressures to shift; for economic situations to suddenly divert resources; etc....
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/08 11:19:37
Subject: Are the PDF actually that bad?
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Leader of the Sept
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Exactly. And that adds to the fun with people all of a sudden finding a stockpile of archeotech equipment that was put aside 20,000 years ago against some unknown future need, and forgotten about.
And so the PDF trolls are now all toting Lazy Guns and wearing Serious FYT armour
Just need to hope the finders are sympathetic to the Imperium and/or the planet
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/08/08 11:20:36
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/08 11:33:18
Subject: Are the PDF actually that bad?
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Calculating Commissar
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I want to reiterate that the Guard doesn't use every bit of gear that is militarily useful. They favour standardised designs for ease of resupply.
So a stockpile of autoguns is less likely to be pilfered than one of lasguns. A stockpile of locally-produced heavy artillery of a different calibre to Earthshakers is also less likely to be requisitioned than Earthshakers. If a situation is truly desperate then maybe, but chances are non-standard patterns and gear will be left alone whilst compatible lasguns and Chineras and Russes etc. are comparably liable to be tithed offworld.
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ChargerIIC wrote:If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/08 12:13:15
Subject: Are the PDF actually that bad?
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The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar
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Have they reconned guard units becoming the new garrison on conquered worlds?
If that’s still the case (it’s old RT stuff) then there is a clear reason decent gear could be in the hands of the PDF. The remnants of the guard becomes the core of the new PDF. While new units get locally produced stuff, there will be heirloom items handed down from the days of liberation.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/08 12:32:20
Subject: Are the PDF actually that bad?
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Calculating Commissar
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Right of conquest is definitely still a thing, but it is rare.
Guard regiments are commonly posted to worlds as a garrison in other circumstances, but they won't become the foundation of the PDF and will be rotated off or retired at some point. If retired, I'd expect their equipment to be returned to Departmento Munitorum stores rather than the PDF of the last world they occupied. Sometimes retired soldiers do keep some personal equipment though, like a lasgun.
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ChargerIIC wrote:If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/08 13:49:33
Subject: Are the PDF actually that bad?
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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I can imagine a PDF’s own Enginseers/local Mechanicus Priesthood tending to anything valuable left behind.
For instance, a Baneblade is labour intensive to repair, and if it’s owning force is rapidly redeployed, there will be situations where perhaps it’s just not practical to recover wrecks (maybe a sliding scale based on overall damage). Leaving them to be, erm, reconsecrated by the locals.
The same could be true of a regiment that’s wiped out in fighting. Yes the theory is the Munitorum will send someone along in due course to collect the remaining goodies. But…Imperium is gonna Imperium. Mistakes can and will be made. Ledgers will be lost. And so the local PDF may very well avail itself of any goodies left over and more or less repairable, and in some instances, nobody will gain say that, or potentially even notice for a long time.
I guess the message is? You want a PDF, go as crazy or as conservative as you want. Automatically Appended Next Post: Though on the Guard’s broad standardisation?
The other advantage to a PDF broadly following suit is that, should a regiment have need to requisition IFV/APCs, PDF (that’s a lot of TLAs!) also having a pool of Chimera or Leman Russ ensures almost instant familiarity.
Whether such requisitioned materials can be taken off world, I honestly don’t know.
There will be staging worlds where Regiments can re-equip and rearm, but those are of course specific situations, and it wouldn’t necessarily apply to each and every world.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/08/08 13:54:27
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/08 13:57:04
Subject: Are the PDF actually that bad?
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Calculating Commissar
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As an example of a PDF with at least one Baneblade, the Ultramar Auxilia had a Baneblade named the Pride of Hera that fought in the battle for Cold Steel Ridge on Macragge during the 1st Tyrannic War.
The Ultramar Auxilia is highly unusual though, and probably doesn't formally fall under the remit of the Departmento Munitorum at all. Regiments supplied from Ultramar are entirely voluntary on the part of the Ultramarines. That probably protects their ability to retain nice toys should they wish. Automatically Appended Next Post:
Broadly speaking, yes. The Departmento Munitorum can impose emergency tithes in response to a shortfall in combat power from regular tithes in the region. For example, a major force enters the subsector like a Waaagh! or hive fleet.
These tithes can be men and/or material, whatever the Departmento Munitorum thinks it needs that the planet can supply. However, they are less likely to take gear that is non-standard that they can't slot into their wider logistics.
Also, by default, a Guard regiment can requisition whatever military gear it needs for its expected duties from the local populace. The means for doing so are covered in the Munitorum Manual background book.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/08/08 14:03:00
ChargerIIC wrote:If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/08 14:05:51
Subject: Are the PDF actually that bad?
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Oh nice! Automatically Appended Next Post: Pride of Hera could even be a leftover relic from the days of the Solar Auxilia.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/08/08 14:11:34
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/08 14:18:26
Subject: Are the PDF actually that bad?
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
Mexico
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Ultramar Auxilia is noted to be better trained and equipped than most Imperial Guard regiments, let alone the average PDF.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/08 15:53:52
Subject: Are the PDF actually that bad?
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Rattling my brain some more?
Compared to a Guard relief force, a PDF is more likely, at least in the early stages, to be fighting defensively. Concentrating on protecting vital infrastructure, perhaps civilian centres etc. And an invader will have some initial advantage in seeing roughly how the target’s defences are deployed.
At least in an attack of any truly notable size.
So, by the time the relief forces arrive, the disposition, number and capacity of the foe will be better known. And so their deployment can be done to create traps and crossfires and cut off lines of supply/advance etc. And if you’re really lucky* and Astartes make a pit stop, where the enemy commanders lie so they can be given a righteous kicking.
*or unlucky if you’ve really blobbed your defence and intel.
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