Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Just watched the video. A nice looking batch of figs. Nothing I need right now, but they look notably better than the WGF greatcoats infantry (not bad figs, but not great) and worlds ahead of the Greatcoat HW box (ugh..). I imagine the Defiance Germans will be even better. They give a very brief view of the aliens and the German rifle at the end.

I'll be keeping an eye on these guys.

I saw these guys some time ago via table top gaming news.

Do you have a run down what exactly this game is suppose to be?

Seems like a more en-depth version of starship troopers.

Piston Honda wrote:Do you have a run down what exactly this game is suppose to be?

It's a game about squad or platoon strength battles in the 23rd century, featuring existing countries or derivatives thereof. The only magic tech is the FTL drive, which enables planet to planet transport in the space of a fortnight, more or less, and has been used by the various powers to establish colonies off world. There are a few alien species we know of so far - Hudson's bugs (which I've read as basically a territorial pack hunter rather than a faction in its own right) and the Vralk (apparently some kind of furry with a sub-modern technology base).

That video was a really nice way to showcase these models. I liked the bit-by-bit breakdown of the sprue contents. I hope they can do similar breakdowns as new models come out! It's also a good way to keep interest in light of all the delays and the like. Looking forward to getting a set of my own.

Yeah now the people who ordered months ago can finally get what they paid for. =o]

Hopefully Tony also kicked the crap out of convinced the mold maker for the delays Now Defience can work on the Germans and the USMC Hardsuits.


I love the look of the Hardsuit, like I said before it's got a MaK vibe to it that I like and I think it would fit in well with Tomorrow's War. Get the run going tony for the Hardsuits and it will be 'shut up and take my money'.

AlexHolker wrote:

Piston Honda wrote:Do you have a run down what exactly this game is suppose to be?

It's a game about squad or platoon strength battles in the 23rd century, featuring existing countries or derivatives thereof. The only magic tech is the FTL drive, which enables planet to planet transport in the space of a fortnight, more or less, and has been used by the various powers to establish colonies off world. There are a few alien species we know of so far - Hudson's bugs (which I've read as basically a territorial pack hunter rather than a faction in its own right) and the Vralk (apparently some kind of furry with a sub-modern technology base).

crap, why did I ask, I'm interested now.


fahk fahk fahk

Piston Honda wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

Piston Honda wrote:Do you have a run down what exactly this game is suppose to be?

It's a game about squad or platoon strength battles in the 23rd century, featuring existing countries or derivatives thereof. The only magic tech is the FTL drive, which enables planet to planet transport in the space of a fortnight, more or less, and has been used by the various powers to establish colonies off world. There are a few alien species we know of so far - Hudson's bugs (which I've read as basically a territorial pack hunter rather than a faction in its own right) and the Vralk (apparently some kind of furry with a sub-modern technology base).

crap, why did I ask, I'm interested now.


fahk fahk fahk

Then whatever you do, dont go onto their forums, because it'll only get worse from there

There's a lot of cool ideas floating around and seems like they've got a really cool universe in the making. Basically, think of 18th to 19th century colonialism and expansionist policies, except with FTL travel, conflicts deciding the ownership or entire planets, and constant threat of alien attack thrown in for good measure.

Almost all the major world powers are going to be represented. If I remember corectly, besides germans and americans, french, commonwealth (english, austrailian, india, and others) chinese, and russia, will all play major roles and recieve "core" sets (basically, they'll be a main army). Then you've got various mercenery outfits and fringe interests groups (there may even be a Vatican honour guard force in the making) as well as the local alien natives that are being "colonized".

For the record, us playtester types should be getting a couple of sprues each in the mail (a couple of the guys have already got theirs). When I get mine I'll get them assembled post-haste and post pictures along with size comparisons with GW and Mantic stuff.

Also, don't forget the Nordic Federation! With those wonderful looking Valkyrie battlesuits.

Piston Honda wrote:crap, why did I ask, I'm interested now.

The forces so far, and a few comments on how I'd like to see them done:

USA - USMC: Think Colonial Marines. Medium quality infantry in medium quality armour. I've suggested the US military be split along mobile vs. defensive lines - the former (USMC) having to punch above its weight due to the constraints of the FTL technology while the latter (Army/Space Coast Guard/whatever) can compensate by just building more big tanks.
Germany - Panzergrenadiers: Elite infantry in heavy armour, backed up by full size walkers instead of hardsuits. Definitely not Space Nazis.
France - French Foreign Legion: Combined human/alien force. The existing use of the FFL as a path for non-Frenchmen to gain French citizenship is well suited to sci-fi.
Vatican - Vatican Armed Forces: Consider themselves peacekeepers in the Jedi sense, with Force powers replaced with mecha. Should be an opportunity to make more stylised hardsuits that fit in better with 40k's aesthetic.
China - People's Liberation Army: Primarily made up of conscripts from their colonies both on and off world, lead by hardsuits. I've suggested they get the heaviest, slowest warships, so they can hold in reserve the capacity to destroy Watch satellites or deploy heavier armoured units.
Nordic Federation - Valkyries: An all female, all hardsuit fighting force. The concept art shows a "female" variant of the Assured Outcomes hardsuit, with lighter armour and heavier weapons. Might be an excuse to make some Mass Effect-style armoured bodygloves for dismounted pilots or infantry too.
Independent - Assured Outcomes: A Private Military Company lead by a Russian veteran. The concept art shows a "male" variant of the Valkyrie hardsuit, with heavier armour and lighter weapons.
Commonwealth - ???: Not much information yet, but I've suggested it be based out of Australia rather than the UK. You'd still have things like the S.A.S. and Gurkhas, but I think having a "King in exile" would be an interesting development.
Japan - ??? ("Hashimoto Robotics Corporation" is the force I suggested): No information yet, but I'm hoping for combat robots that are sold to other countries. This would provide a way to do things like field heavy weapons before your force's heavy weapon kits are available.

Hudson's Bugs & Vralk: I've already mentioned these. Both are present on the first campaign world, Aleutia.

The Watch - Artillects: A background only force. Made up of AI-controlled peacekeeper satellites that lob munitions at people who do things they don't like. I've argued that they should be toned down both in strength and in how trigger-happy they are but it remains to be seen whether Tony takes my advice.

MrMoustaffa wrote:

.... I'm really glad that they're taking the time to show us all these videos and stuff. It really helps get interest in it when they can point at the sprue and go, "Yeah, we thought this would be cool, here's why."

I also really liked how they were giving tips for how to convert them, like how for the MG's, he states that if you hate the underslung GL, the easiest way to get it off is with an exacto knife along the bottom of the gun. People on the forum had had mixed feelings about it, but I'm glad they slapped it on and said "hey if you don't like it, here's the best way to get it off."

That said, I wish they'd use something besides an iPhone to take the videos. That showed the detail fairly well, but I think it wouldn't hurt after they sell a few kits to get a HD camera for pics of their models...

I agree 100% with everything you state here. The sprues look great, you get a lot for your money, there seems to be PLENTY of variety in the box, and he even tells you how to easily change some of the pieces if you care for them. But good lord I hope he at least sets his camera on a box next time. I was getting sick about half way through.

Love how he has the open bottle of Sam Adams on his desk while he is filming that video. Wish they would of been a little smaller, the comparison shot has them as the same height as a Space Marine. Still going to have to get some though. They look awesome.

is there going to be Heavier Weapon options, Missile Lauchers, Futuristic M2 .50 Cals, Mortars, etc so it might be possible to use them for other game systems. Don't think I could win too many games armed with nothing but Heavy Bolters, and autoguns.

Fosner1703 wrote:Wish they would of been a little smaller, the comparison shot has them as the same height as a Space Marine.

I would never expect anyone to scale their models to Space Marines - they're not even in scale with themselves!

is there going to be Heavier Weapon options, Missile Lauchers, Futuristic M2 .50 Cals, Mortars, etc so it might be possible to use them for other game systems. Don't think I could win too many games armed with nothing but Heavy Bolters, and autoguns.

It's actually closer to heavy stubbers and autoguns, I think. But yes, DFG do intend to release USMC heavy and special weapon sprues.

From Defiance Games facebook page, just posted by Tony:





We're looking at the German parts now and finalizing everything. Take a look at these and tell us what you think. One question we have - on the armor plates would you like to have that raised central area on each plate further raised (i.e. a higher ridge)? Would that make it easier to paint? Let us know your thoughts!

Fosner1703 wrote:Love how he has the open bottle of Sam Adams on his desk while he is filming that video. Wish they would of been a little smaller, the comparison shot has them as the same height as a Space Marine. Still going to have to get some though. They look awesome.

is there going to be Heavier Weapon options, Missile Lauchers, Futuristic M2 .50 Cals, Mortars, etc so it might be possible to use them for other game systems. Don't think I could win too many games armed with nothing but Heavy Bolters, and autoguns.

On the scale thing, normal IG cadians and catachans are already taller than normal space marines, so if anything, they'll be perfectly in scale with other IG guardsmen. I stood some of my cadians up to some AoBR marines the other day, and was shocked to notice that my guardsmen were looking DOWN on the space marines. Yes, I know the SM are kind of crouching, but still, that doesn't make any sense at all. And those are GW official models

As for the heavier weapons options, yes, there are heavy weapons on the list for the future. Hardsuits will be out first though, which are basically normal guys in heavily armored exosuits with heavier weapons than a normal infantryman could carry, but smaller than an actual dedicated heavy weapon. They'll probably release heavy weapons after the germans get their walker, the USMC get their hardsuits, and the bugs get their warriors.

Absolutionis wrote:Aren't these the guys that split off from Wargames Factory after the new management?

If these are really the guys that were responsible for the delays in the Wargames Factory production, and the current production of Defiance Games is again way behind schedule, I see a pattern.

winnertakesall wrote:From Defiance Games facebook page, just posted by Tony:

I hate it. I hated it when we first saw it three months ago, and I still hate it now. The concept art suggested that the Panzergrenadiers would be wearing a suit of body armour of a consistent style (plates-over-straps-over-fatigues), not the hodgepodge seen on the models.

Kroothawk wrote:

Absolutionis wrote:Aren't these the guys that split off from Wargames Factory after the new management?

If these are really the guys that were responsible for the delays in the Wargames Factory production, and the current production of Defiance Games is again way behind schedule, I see a pattern.

These are the former WGF guys, but if you actually go and look at all the facts in that situation,it was, in fact, the current Chinese WGF guys that caused the issues with delays. It looks very much like Tony sold shares of the company to the Chinese manufacturers to get some operating capitol so he could get some sets out faster. Then for some strange reason the shipments from China suddenly started getting delayed more and more, further causing WGF to have financial issues because if you don't have stuff to sell then you cannot get capitol from the profits. It finally ended with a forced cue with inside help from the sales manager with the Chinese guys stating that Tony wasn't doing enough to sell product that he didn't even have because they had it held up in shipping.

I do not know if this is a 100% accurate telling of the situation, but from what I understand it is rather correct. The Chinese guys who operate WGF now pretty much caused fake issues to drown the company in operating costs so that they could take over and produce crappy models. So the delays that you speak of were caused by people other than Tony, AFAIK. So while there are delays associated with both companies, I do not actually see a pattern at all.

And yet the "new" WGF are at least releasing models at the dates they call

Not saying I approve of them, just pointing that whatever problems they had are now naught

kenshin620 wrote:And yet the "new" WGF are at least releasing models at the dates they call

Not saying I approve of them, just pointing that whatever problems they had are now naught

Well of course they are. Shortly after Tony and Howard got forced out the product magically appeared and started shipping. I do not know 100% of everything that went down, but the whole situation was suspicious and I find it hard to understand how product just magically appeared shortly after Tony signed the papers that ended his ownership of WGF.

Ehh I'll leave the drama to the TMPers and wotnot

Anyways theres a quick review from someone who got the test sprues. He did a few alterations

WIP: Defiance Games...
Marine. Had to take a break from painting yesterday for a few hours as we were having a boiler fitted in my attic workspace - not very condusive to sitting in deep concentration with a steady hand - so I started putting together a Defiance Games Marine from the three test-sprues Tony Reidy sent me. Let me state immediately - I like these! Despite the furore (you weren't aware of it? Where have you been!?) that's surrounded the release (well about to be released to be more accurate) of these miniatures I think they have a great deal of potential in terms of conversion (which is why I ordered several sets in the first place) and will look great with (and in) a number of the 28mm sci-fi vehicles I have in my collection. Being plastic there are some issues - lack of undercuts, 'soft detailing - but the material is so easy to manipulate and work with that these are only minor problems for anybody with a little modelling experience and the right tools.
I've put together a head, torso and legs and removed all the mould lines which are inherent to any casting be it metal, resin or plastic. I've then set about refining the detail and improving the undercuts in certain areas.

Here are some comparison pics of a marine OOB and one I've 'enhanced' - pockets; buttons removed to be replaced at a later stage, flaps and expansion pleat given sharper definition. Body-armour; back of the arms, shoulder pads given undercuts and better definition. Boots; soles defined. Head; peak of cap thinned near ears, 'Colonial Marines' collar added to neck (I tend to do this with most figures that have a seperate head to improve the fit - the head is not permanently attached just blu-tacked - I would normally do this with modelling epoxy but here have drilled out the end of a plasticard tube and filed it down to nearer scale thickness then cut the opening in the front). Belt; most importantly, for me, I've given him an 'arse' by carving away the belt at the rear and then recarving to give an overall smaller waist and better shaped posterior. This also makes the back of the body armour appear bulkier and overhang the waist. A little more cleaning-up then I'll move on to the arms and weapon.

kenshin620 wrote:*pictures*

Well... feth. Why is the man incapable of just following the concept art?

Those knees look blobby as hell.

I agree with the blobby knees and not following the concept art. The knee issue is, I believe, the top of the shin armor. A little filing should give it more of a hard edge. Which brings up another point...why is it that some mini's can have nice crisp edges in plastic and others cannot? It's obvious that the mini can he designed with imense amounts of detail. So I am left to believe that the mold cutting technique is the failure here. I guess that better crisper detail requires a more expensive mold making technique or something similar.

And why is it that so often you see mini's that only vaguely resemble the concept art? I loved the armor details and design in the concept art, but the actual models armor looks vastly different. Again, I am left to believe that the mini was altered to deal with mold making issues/deficiencies because a less expensive technique had to be used.

I could also be completely wrong on all counts though. Either way, I still like them and still plan to purchase them, just wish we had gotten something closer to the actual concept art instead.

I think they follow the concept art fairly well, but the knees are definitely too round and blobby for my tastes, and are the most noticeable straying from said concept art.

Scale comparisons with every relevant mini I could dredge up:


With Cadians and Marines


Tyranids and a Sentinel


With a 2010 Chimera


Mantic Marauder and Forge Father


WGF Shock Trooper and a Reaper Ogre ("Bones" line)


WGF Zombies


WGF Persian and Mantic Skeleton


Tau Fire Warrior and Kroot


Stealth Suit and Crisis Suit


EM-4 Plastic Troopers

Wow. These miniatures are really nice-- those comparison pictures are quite telling.

Fetterkey wrote:Wow. These miniatures are really nice-- those comparison pictures are quite telling.

Haha....what?
You realise that the Defiance model is the blobby piece of garbage in the middle of each photo right?
Did you see the post where someone who mind-bogglingly states that they like the range spent at least half an hour hacking detail into a model with the definition and layering of a novelty candle?
Why do hobbyists keep supporting the production of crap? It's cheaper than GW so we'll accept design and production values that would be unacceptable in Kinder Surprise toys? Alternatives to GW don't have to be half-assed piles of fecal matter. If you're going to vote with your wallet then at least cast a vote for quality and not just for anything that isn't GW.

plastictrees wrote:
Haha....what?
You realise that the Defiance model is the blobby piece of garbage in the middle of each photo right?
Did you see the post where someone who mind-bogglingly states that they like the range spent at least half an hour hacking detail into a model with the definition and layering of a novelty candle?
Why do hobbyists keep supporting the production of crap? It's cheaper than GW so we'll accept design and production values that would be unacceptable in Kinder Surprise toys? Alternatives to GW don't have to be half-assed piles of fecal matter. If you're going to vote with your wallet then at least cast a vote for quality and not just for anything that isn't GW.

Holy balls.

The models don't look terrible in my eyes. They're not as good as GW's, but they look better to me than Mantic or WGF models. I'm really looking forward to seeing some good pictures of these guys painted up, as flat grey plastic isn't exactly impressive to photograph.

plastictrees wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:Wow. These miniatures are really nice-- those comparison pictures are quite telling.

Haha....what?
You realise that the Defiance model is the blobby piece of garbage in the middle of each photo right?
Did you see the post where someone who mind-bogglingly states that they like the range spent at least half an hour hacking detail into a model with the definition and layering of a novelty candle?
Why do hobbyists keep supporting the production of crap? It's cheaper than GW so we'll accept design and production values that would be unacceptable in Kinder Surprise toys? Alternatives to GW don't have to be half-assed piles of fecal matter. If you're going to vote with your wallet then at least cast a vote for quality and not just for anything that isn't GW.

Personally, I think the Defiance USMC look better than any of the other human miniatures shown. They are clearly much better-proportioned than the goofy GW Cadians and absolutely blow WGF greatcoats out of the water. At this point, if I were making an Imperial Guard army, I would strongly consider using the Defiance Games miniatures-- perhaps with GW weapons, and perhaps without. Overall, I think GW more or less does a good job-- I love my Marine army-- but 30 dollars for 10 Cadians is too much, especially when my dream IG army would have 100+ infantry and several vehicles. Let's say I want 95 guys-- that would cost me about 100 from Defiance, and about 300 from GW. When I think the Defiance models are probably better than the GW ones, and I can get three of them for each GW one, the choice becomes pretty obvious.

If that's not your opinion, whatever, but don't throw a fit because other people don't like what you like.