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And to think people paid over $30 for this...

 Kanluwen wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Thachng wrote:
Said it was very old made of chronhagic materials. It did have a story of commander bravestorm falcon punching a bio Titan with his onager gauntlet punching its throat out

Sounds like a necron thing to me.

Chronophagic = "Time Eating"

Necrons are the masters of time manipulation.

Or old ones. They were in a race of arms with them.

Or the Hrud!

They distort the passage of time when they migrate.

The weapon doesn't look hrud in design though, does it? I thought hrud tech looked crude.

Anyway, a weapon that steals time away from a victim sounds more like a necrontyr thing. They were a raced obsessed with immortality after all, and I don't think the Old Ones, who are described as being highly long lived, would bother making such a weapon. They'd rather just send them to the warp.

UltraPrime wrote:

 Marthike wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
I will use it over the Tau codex for this reason alone:

Farsight Enclave

-Take IC Riptide
-x2 Riptides
-x1 Riptide with Earth Caste Pilot (or all not to sure on that)

Add Tau Allies

-Shadowsun
-x1 Riptide

I now have an army with 5 Riptides

I tried that but in 1750 points you might not be able to do that, unless you do barebone riptides with nothing, at 2000 i think this can be done.

As you can't use allies at less than 2000 pts, this is not an issue.

I think the real issue is that it states Shadowsun can not be used in a farsight enclave.

Also I can not find ANYWHERE that it states you have to take Farsight for this list nor nothing that states you cant use one of the "7" as your commander. To me this can fit into the fluff that his sub commanders are off running missions for him. I tried to read through this thread but my head started to hurt and nose started to bleed with some of the comments

I will go back and read/reread/and reread to see if I can see it from the other viewpoints.

For the Force Org Chart, it works like this:


I'm also not sure how you're supposedly able to ally the Farsight Supplement (which isn't a different army, it's still Codex: Tau Empire), to Codex: Tau Empire...
Everything I've seen says the Supplements are the base codex plus extra rules - no different to adding units listed in the Imperial Armour books, such as Tetras.

The Farsight Enclave book specifically states Tau Empire detatchments may ally together as battle brothers.

No matter how i read it, you need farsight for that unit.

If you choose to take this unit, commander farsight does not allow you to ......

No where it says you can take this unit without mentioning farsight.

 Ovion wrote:

I'm also not sure how you're supposedly able to ally the Farsight Supplement (which isn't a different army, it's still Codex: Tau Empire), to Codex: Tau Empire...
Everything I've seen says the Supplements are the base codex plus extra rules - no different to adding units listed in the Imperial Armour books, such as Tetras.

This?
Its one of the few things in the supplement that ARE clear, its witten in "allies" that farsight are treated as tau for the purpose of allies, with the exception they treat C:TE as battle brothers.
Just like how forgeworld army lists does it.

It says so on the codex, it says you can use tau as battle brothers with farsight enclave.

 Marthike wrote:
No matter how i read it, you need farsight for that unit.

If you choose to take this unit, commander farsight does not allow you to ......

No where it says you can take this unit without mentioning farsight.

This is the full quote "If you choose to take this unit, Commander Farsight does not allow you to take an XV8 Crisis Bodyguard Team as normal; he has the Commander Team instead."

No where does it mention Farsight is required. What this sentence says, if you take the Command Team you are restricted from taking the XV8 Crisis Bodyguard Team.

There is no special Farsight Bodyguard Team in the Tau Codex. Farsight has a special rule that expands the XV8 Crisis Bodyguard Team to 7 models. The rule above is to prevent you from adding the Command Team to another 7 man XV8 Crisis Bodyguard Team to create a 15 model blob.

Farsight is part of the command team, so how can he be required first without adding the command team before him.

farsight is the only that occupies a FOC so that's why you have to buy him first... i think

 ashikenshin wrote:
farsight is the only that occupies a FOC so that's why you have to buy him first... i think

Good point. You are still allowed to purchase a body guard team without Farsight in the regular codex.

Can we just move this thread to YMDC now? :-)

BoomWolf wrote:

 Ovion wrote:

I'm also not sure how you're supposedly able to ally the Farsight Supplement (which isn't a different army, it's still Codex: Tau Empire), to Codex: Tau Empire...
Everything I've seen says the Supplements are the base codex plus extra rules - no different to adding units listed in the Imperial Armour books, such as Tetras.

This?
Its one of the few things in the supplement that ARE clear, its witten in "allies" that farsight are treated as tau for the purpose of allies, with the exception they treat C:TE as battle brothers.
Just like how forgeworld army lists does it.

Fair enough - hadn't seen that, that clears that up.
Do we know if it's the same thing for Iyanden?

I always figured that the Dawn Blade was suggested to be Anaris.

 agnosto wrote:
Can we just move this thread to YMDC now? :-)

Agree.

 agnosto wrote:
Can we just move this thread to YMDC now? :-)

Honesty (like most incredibly poorly worded rules) there's little to no point in arguing over them anyway. GW's going to fix them one way or another in the FAQ when it comes out, and they don't care one whit about how the original construction of the rules were. Flip a coin and play with whatever locally until it's fixed (or just have a TO arbitrarily call it one way ahead of time), just be read to have things go the opposite way when the official word comes out.

hands_miranda wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
Can we just move this thread to YMDC now? :-)

Honesty (like most incredibly poorly worded rules) there's little to no point in arguing over them anyway. GW's going to fix them one way or another in the FAQ when it comes out, and they don't care one whit about how the original construction of the rules were. Flip a coin and play with whatever locally until it's fixed (or just have a TO arbitrarily call it one way ahead of time), just be read to have things go the opposite way when the official word comes out.

QFT. First reasonable post in 10 pages of squabbling. Have an exalt sir.

 davou wrote:

valace2 wrote:

that quote is referring to multiple primary detachments in a 2000+ pt double FOC game. Not defining a primary and allied detachment.

Fine, hows about this ;

"Every player is represented on the battlefield by their army's Warlord."

page xvii
Given that you can't take a warlord for both detachments in your army, this is indication that the army is a single umbrella that covers all detachments.

"In the Choosing Your Army section (page 108), you'll see that you can add some buildings to your army"

note above, that the fortifications are on the force org chart seperately from allies and primary detachments. They do not fall under either of the detachments, but exist as a component of the army, once again, Army is the umbrella term for both detachments.

"PRIMARY DETACHMENTS
This section of the Force Organisation chart is reproduced in many codexes and is integral to building an army. It dictates the units you can take in the main body of your army. All of the units in your primary detachment must be chosen from the same codex. Furthermore, your Warlord must be chosen from your primary detachment (seepage 111)."

Page 109

Again we see the term 'army' being talked about as the sum of its detachment (and fortification) components.

"If you wish,your army can include one allied detachment for each primary detachment in your army (normally one,"

-Page 109

"From a gaming point of view, taking allies in your army opens up entirely new tactical possibilities,
making your already formidable force even more so. "

page 112

Here we have the most literal wording so far, Your army may include allies, Allies ARE a part of your army.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

pantsonhead wrote:
Seems to me that RAW for Markerlights is that they work cross-detachment, except for Farsight's Commander Team, which is not a unit from Codex: Tau Empire and can't benefit from any Markerlights at all. Although they're all ICs and if they join any other unit they count as part of the unit and can benefit from Markerlights if the unit can.

This is painful lol

So let me ask you this, since the wording says a Farsight Enclaves army can not include Shadowsun or Aun Va what if Shadowsun is the primary HQ and you ally in Enclave allies?

Hmmmm....

If you have a primary imp guard force with Yarrick as the HQ and then ally in Ghaz as the HQ for an allied Ork detachment who's army is it Yarrick's or Ghaz's?

How strange - the Iyanden book specifically states that it is Codex Eldar, I wonder why the Farsight Enclaves can ally in to regular Tau, while Iyanden cannot ally in to Eldar...

valace2 wrote:

 davou wrote:

valace2 wrote:

that quote is referring to multiple primary detachments in a 2000+ pt double FOC game. Not defining a primary and allied detachment.

Fine, hows about this ;

"Every player is represented on the battlefield by their army's Warlord."

page xvii
Given that you can't take a warlord for both detachments in your army, this is indication that the army is a single umbrella that covers all detachments.

"In the Choosing Your Army section (page 108), you'll see that you can add some buildings to your army"

note above, that the fortifications are on the force org chart seperately from allies and primary detachments. They do not fall under either of the detachments, but exist as a component of the army, once again, Army is the umbrella term for both detachments.

"PRIMARY DETACHMENTS
This section of the Force Organisation chart is reproduced in many codexes and is integral to building an army. It dictates the units you can take in the main body of your army. All of the units in your primary detachment must be chosen from the same codex. Furthermore, your Warlord must be chosen from your primary detachment (seepage 111)."

Page 109

Again we see the term 'army' being talked about as the sum of its detachment (and fortification) components.

"If you wish,your army can include one allied detachment for each primary detachment in your army (normally one,"

-Page 109

"From a gaming point of view, taking allies in your army opens up entirely new tactical possibilities,
making your already formidable force even more so. "

page 112

Here we have the most literal wording so far, Your army may include allies, Allies ARE a part of your army.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

pantsonhead wrote:
Seems to me that RAW for Markerlights is that they work cross-detachment, except for Farsight's Commander Team, which is not a unit from Codex: Tau Empire and can't benefit from any Markerlights at all. Although they're all ICs and if they join any other unit they count as part of the unit and can benefit from Markerlights if the unit can.

This is painful lol

So let me ask you this, since the wording says a Farsight Enclaves army can not include Shadowsun or Aun Va what if Shadowsun is the primary HQ and you ally in Enclave allies?

Hmmmm....

If you have a primary imp guard force with Yarrick as the HQ and then ally in Ghaz as the HQ for an allied Ork detachment who's army is it Yarrick's or Ghaz's?

Id argue no shadowsun or aunva ever.

Do ghazzy or yarrick have any rules about each other, or just fluff?

 Ovion wrote:
How strange - the Iyanden book specifically states that it is Codex Eldar, I wonder why the Farsight Enclaves can ally in to regular Tau, while Iyanden cannot ally in to Eldar...

Because Tau.

I've long since decided that GW is heavily pushing Tau this edition, trying to move them up from a niche army that wasn't especially popular in the grand scheme of things, to a more popular force that they can sell more of. It's a theory that fits in with the fact that Tau will ally fairly broadly and have choices that can be customized to be an excellent response to any tactical problem.

Or, as a friend of mine puts it, "There's a Tau for that."

So even if you don't purchase any of the new signature systems, you still cannot use the Tau Empire sigs? I remember it saying you MAY use the Farsight Enclave systems, it being a choice of either or. Am I wrong? =( That would really throw a snag in my decision to run the enclaves and get crisis as troops =(

It says that if you take any Sig systems, they must come from farsight enclaves list, rather than the core codex. Your free to take none.

The argument starting is weather the term 'army' in fact means 'detachment'

 agnosto wrote:
QFT. First reasonable post in 10 pages of squabbling. Have an exalt sir.

Thanks. Between arguing over points that are pretty obviously going to be FAQ'd and the piles of RTFM style comments, YMTC becomes a lot less useful to newer players (like me-- got back into 40K with 6th edition) because people are either arguing in the most pedantic way or just don't give a straight answer.

Just reading the rules for Fusion Blades as a Sig system and noticed it says, "Commander with a twin-linked fusion blaster only." RAW does that mean I can't add them to a Crisis Suit Shas'vre as one of his 3 hard points because he is not a "Commander?"

Noc

Nocturus wrote:
Just reading the rules for Fusion Blades as a Sig system and noticed it says, "Commander with a twin-linked fusion blaster only." RAW does that mean I can't add them to a Crisis Suit Shas'vre as one of his 3 hard points because he is not a "Commander?"

Noc

Well since you cant take a crisis bodyguard team, a commander and a riptide are the only ones who could equip signature systems, and this seems to be written so that the riptide cant take it.

 Micky wrote:

Nocturus wrote:
Just reading the rules for Fusion Blades as a Sig system and noticed it says, "Commander with a twin-linked fusion blaster only." RAW does that mean I can't add them to a Crisis Suit Shas'vre as one of his 3 hard points because he is not a "Commander?"

Noc

Well since you cant take a crisis bodyguard team, a commander and a riptide are the only ones who could equip signature systems, and this seems to be written so that the riptide cant take it.

"XV8 Crisis Sha'vres can be equipped with three items from the Ranged Weapons, Signature Systems, and/or Support systems lists" according to the Tau Codex.

"Any character in your army that may select Signature Systems may not select from those listed in Codex: Tau Empire, but may instead select from the Signature Systems of the Farsight Enclaves, at the points cost shown" according to the Farsight Enclave expansion.

So my question is: The rules for Fusion Blades as a Sig system says, "Commander with a twin-linked fusion blaster only." RAW does that mean I can't add them to a Crisis Suit Shas'vre as one of his 3 hard points because he is not a "Commander?"

None of the other Signature systems have that kind of wording and even the Earth Caste Pilot Array can be given to any battle suit meaning it doesn't have to be given to a Riptide.

Noc

I would interpret that as commander only and not for shasvre upgraded crisis teams.

davou wrote: Id argue no shadowsun or aunva ever.

Do ghazzy or yarrick have any rules about each other, or just fluff?

No just used them to show the difference between what constitutes an army. If the Imp Guard is the primary detachment and the Orks are the secondary allied detachment you would have to say its an Imp Guard Army.

If standard Tau are my primary and the Enclave forces are my secondary allied detachment you would have to say it is a standard Tau force and not an Enclave army.

The wording in the supplement is thus...

A Farsight Enclaves army cannot not include Aun'Va or Commander Shadowsun.

valace2 wrote:

davou wrote: Id argue no shadowsun or aunva ever.

Do ghazzy or yarrick have any rules about each other, or just fluff?

No just used them to show the difference between what constitutes an army. If the Imp Guard is the primary detachment and the Orks are the secondary allied detachment you would have to say its an Imp Guard Army.

If standard Tau are my primary and the Enclave forces are my secondary allied detachment you would have to say it is a standard Tau force and not an Enclave army.

The wording in the supplement is thus...

A Farsight Enclaves army cannot not include Aun'Va or Commander Shadowsun.

Why have the restriction at all if you can go ahead and bypass it immediately and with no drawbacks whatsoever?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"If you wish,your army can include one allied detachment for each primary detachment in your army (normally one,"
-Page 109

Please also explain this; how can an army include detachments if those detatchments are armies?