Super Dungeon Explorer: Forgotten King by Soda Pop, KS live and funded

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Joyboozer**

You'd think if anything they'd be trying to hype up Relic Knights after the disaster it's been, SDE seems to be selling itself.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

There's no real point working relic knights until it's available for sale, and while the KS stuff is being airfreighted I'm sure the regular retail stuff will be boating so a month or two away

better to concentrate on SDE while the KS is live, and RK when it arrives

**Catyrpelius**

I don't really see how hiring a model to attend a large game convention during your campaign is any different then paying gaming websites to run adds, offering contests and paying well known reviewers to review your game. I can understand that the use of scantaly clad women to promote something might be distasteful though. If thats the case Soda Pop might not be the company for you... It's kind of what they do.

**nkelsch**

Catyrpelius wrote:
I don't really see how hiring a model to attend a large game convention during your campaign is any different then paying gaming websites to run adds, offering contests and paying well known reviewers to review your game. I can understand that the use of scantaly clad women to promote something might be distasteful though. If thats the case Soda Pop might not be the company for you... It's kind of what they do.

Sure, then there is also no difference from dropping pamphlets from hot air balloons and tattooing your logo on fat guys... Marketing has degrees of effectiveness and abilitiy to reach your audience. I would argue a website banner add or a paid game review (especially during a KS needing rules exposure) is going to reach way more potential customers and deliver much more bang for your buck than other avenues... especially a Booth babe.

And claiming 'it is their own money' is laughable... it is a shell game, Debt is debt. If you don't think your KS pledge is paying for this or the other current expenditures the company has, you are fooling yourself. You just have to hope that it isn't enough to sink the project at the end. (with the amount of bloated paid-add ons, I think they will be fine as they are charging over retail)

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

I think a cosplay babe at a big convention when your KS is running is probably more cost effective than generic advertising

you'll get a lot of photo re-posts from people there and many of them will mention SDE and/or Soda Pop, you'll also get additional coverage on news sites who won't pass up the chance to post a picture of a pretty girl

It also fit's with a company playing to it's 'established' strengths, Soda Pop is already heavily associated with cosplay from it's volunteer Soda Pop Girls (they even have their own tab on the website) and Marie Claude for Relic Knights.

(I don't necessarily think going the cosplay route would be such a sensible spend for many other game companies)

**Sining**

nkelsch wrote:
Catyrpelius wrote:
I don't really see how hiring a model to attend a large game convention during your campaign is any different then paying gaming websites to run adds, offering contests and paying well known reviewers to review your game. I can understand that the use of scantaly clad women to promote something might be distasteful though. If thats the case Soda Pop might not be the company for you... It's kind of what they do.

Sure, then there is also no difference from dropping pamphlets from hot air balloons and tattooing your logo on fat guys... Marketing has degrees of effectiveness and abilitiy to reach your audience. I would argue a website banner add or a paid game review (especially during a KS needing rules exposure) is going to reach way more potential customers and deliver much more bang for your buck than other avenues... especially a Booth babe.

And claiming 'it is their own money' is laughable... it is a shell game, Debt is debt. If you don't think your KS pledge is paying for this or the other current expenditures the company has, you are fooling yourself. You just have to hope that it isn't enough to sink the project at the end. (with the amount of bloated paid-add ons, I think they will be fine as they are charging over retail)

That's interesting cause they haven't received the KS money yet. Also, you keep talking about debt. How bout you back your words up with some hard proof?

**Sarouan**

Just don't feed the troll, guys.

The potion rule preview is not really big news, but the fact there are now three types working differently mean they're not all powerful like before. Only the Emergency one can be used during the Consul's turn, which is quite a big change in itself.

For now, Forgotten King Heroes don't have overpowered Potions. There are good chances that the previous heroes won't work the same as well. If the Paladin or the Riftling Thief can't use their Potions like they want as before, that's quite another thing to play.

**Rainyday**

I remember the original rulebook being quite unclear about potion timing (among other things), but his seems much clearer.

I like how the new rules are shaping up so far. I'm just hoping that either the classic rules don't make it even harder on the consul (read: me) or the arcade rules are good enough that it doesn't matter.

**cincydooley**

I was actually the one that questioned paying for cosplayers, but when I looked at the (estimated) associated costs and the fact that it is legitimate marketing (whether or not you agree with the "type" of marketing it is); and I softened my stance considerably. I think for SPM that type of marketing is consistent with the brand and makes a lot of sense.

**PsychoticStorm**

Not only it is marketing and legitimately used to support the kickstarter, but I also view something that is in price brackets I can afford to pay as not really that expensive.

**cincydooley**

PsychoticStorm wrote:
Not only it is marketing and legitimately used to support the kickstarter, but I also view something that is in price brackets I can afford to pay as not really that expensive.

Completely agree.

I was actually surprised at how low some of the estimates were. Granted, I'm sure M-CB, being a 'bigger' name, commands a bit more, but still 'within reason' for a company

**highlord tamburlaine**

I'm quite curious how these new rules will affect the old characters.

I would imagine the thief will still get to use hers on the Consul turn.

Not too much farther until we get loot artwork (and another preview) either!

**DaveC**

Next goal is

Also

Creator Soda Pop Miniatures about 8 hours ago
Rattlebones are becoming creeps.

**Sarouan**

The Nether Shadow mini-boss is actually a "Evil Candy" monster. Nice idea, i'd say.

Besides, Ninja Division will be there as well with SDE and Relic Knights;

**Schmapdi**

I hope that means we'll get more Rattlebones. Silly to only put 4 skeletons in a box when they're generally only considered a nuisance when there's hordes of them.

**Siygess**

Hah, yeah, especially since there were 6 bone pile counters..

Way to count, SPM

**Schmapdi**

Who's running this thread? Slackers!

Soda Pop has posted a teaser that will slowly fill in as we get closer to the next goal.

It appears to be another new warband/pack.

The teaser is a neat idea - but won't work out to well timewise - it'll all be unlocked by the time we all get up in the morning. And it just went up a few hours ago. So it's not exactly creating a lot of suspense.

Still, seems we'll get more kobolds - but these ones will be riding/leading dragons/wyrms into battle. Fun!

**Joyboozer**

I think it spells the words " unforeseen delays"..

**DaveC**

well there is this posted last night

Creator Soda Pop Miniatures about 6 hours ago

As stated in the Risks and Challenges if any stretch goals cause a delay in production we will ship in multiple waves.

-Deke

but who picks up the extra shipping bill?

**Krinsath**

DaveC wrote:
well there is this posted last night

Creator Soda Pop Miniatures about 6 hours ago

As stated in the Risks and Challenges if any stretch goals cause a delay in production we will ship in multiple waves.

-Deke

but who picks up the extra shipping bill?

My bet would be on the exact same people who are paying for "actual shipping costs" currently (i.e. - the backers). So that then becomes an interesting question; if SPM decides to break it into waves, does this mean that international backers take a bath twice on the shipping costs or have to wait and watch as products they paid for 6-10 months ago arrive at retail with no clue when their's will ship (assuming a "ship once at the end" option is available)? Seems somewhat dodgy since SPM is the one who gets to make that decision somewhat unilaterally long after the money has been collected.

Definitely worth a question about how that would work out. If the scenario I described is accurate (and it may not be), that's something people should know before they commit funds. Not saying that making backers pay for multiple waves if SPM screws up is right or wrong, just that it's not something that should be sprung on the backers as a surprise "give us more money or you won't see what you already gave us money for" months down the line.

**Joyboozer**

I agree and think I'll drop my pledge, these guys are just too dodgy to be given the benefit of the doubt.

**caylentor**

I'm going to sit on mine until the last couple of days to see how they go with international shipping before adding more/dropping the pledge. I'm currently sitting at the $100 level, there's a few add-ons I like but if they don't sort out an EU hub then I can't actually add on anything without the risk of the unknown shipping costs tipping it over the import duty level.

**nkelsch**

While dual waves is not a killer for us domestic people, it does mean potentially double costs. I suppose I would rather that to get product faster.

Doubles hipping for EU and RoW people as it stands now is a killer.

If they do reach a point where they have reached their contracted production capacity, I thinkt hey need to say 'all new stuff after this point will be wave 2" so people can then choose not to pick add-ons from two waves if they want to avoid double shipping.

**Salacious Greed**

Well, the real problem when they hit the "double shipping wall" is that it will basically signify no more freebies. As people can choose to not get any paid add-ons and wait for retail on them, having to pay ROW shipping for a few freebies, or waiting on your whole pledge for an extra 3-6 months might make it unattractive.

**nkelsch**

Salacious Greed wrote:
Well, the real problem when they hit the "double shipping wall" is that it will basically signify no more freebies. As people can choose to not get any paid add-ons and wait for retail on them, having to pay ROW shipping for a few freebies, or waiting on your whole pledge for an extra 3-6 months might make it unattractive.

The issue isn't whether they hit the wall, but do they know WHERE the wall is and will they disclose when they feel they are getting close to it?

Right now, one has to assume that the core project and all the stretch goals can be produced by December 2014. If they estimated funding goals and had all these pre-planned and reserved in their manufacturing plants, that could be a very valid date. Of course, they may have just been sitting on concept art and are adding stretch goals (since we have reached the land of no Renders) and that if they haven't thought this far ahead, they could have hit the double shipping wall already and either 'don't know it' or 'know it but not telling'.

The thing is, these are the *EXACT* issues relic knights hit and I see nothing that shows they have learned or changed processes from that. If they said 'everything past Glimmerwing will be a wave 2, I could respect that. Shows some planning and that they have confirmed capacity. Delays can happen but ones from lack of planning are avoidable.

Also, they have a sketchy track record on delivering on concept art. Due to some of the RK SDE designs, they are very much a 'Must see renders' company for me. If it doesn't have a render I can wait.

I hope they address RoW and fess up in how they actually feel about the delivery date or not as their 'risks' section is not enough to satisfy the question of 'do they have manufacturing capacity for all of this by december or not) A phantom second ship is not good for everyone. (not particularly an issue for me, but I am domestic)

Edit: I think Deke already said 'expect no more loot' so everything from here out is paid add-ons I think. (IE: putting the breaks on, which is not a terrible thing for a KS, I support that sometimes)

**Rainyday**

I think they really need to put their heads together, sort out the shipping issues, and let everyone know quickly and clearly. More than anything else, I can see this being the biggest sore point about this campaign.

One pledge level, no exclusives, lots of paid add-ons, limited discounts, far-off delivery date; these are all controversial, but you could make arguments for or against any of them, but I don't think anyone's happy about the shipping.

Ooh! I know!

Class of the Wurd

Angry dragonkin who just can't pass 2nd grade. They just failed a spelling test and they're out for blood!

**Darkness**

Im in for $275

**Buzzsaw**

Surprised this wasn't posted;

Update #17 Apr 4 2014
$500,000 Reached!
38 comments Like 32 likes
In the immortal words of Ted 'Theodore' Logan, "Whoa."

Really that says everything doesn't it?

Let's see what we've unlocked!

Expand your dungeons with six, new double-side dungeon tiles!

Next Up

Candy's dark doppleganger is up next as a free LOOT. Once we reach $525k all pledges of Always Super will have this little bundle of mischief included for free!

The Fae Wood has been explored a great deal in this Kickstarter so we think it's time to get back to what started it all—Kobolds!

The Cult of the Burning Star worships Starfire as not only their king but as a fiery deity of destruction. It is the Claws of the Wyrm who enforce the Dragon Priests' order among the unruly masses of Kobolds and bring death to their enemies.

Claw Trainers are bestowed the honor of guiding Starfire's brood of drakes into battle. With their barking commands and the crack of their whips the drakes are brought to new heights of savagery.

Black Claw Assassins are feared by Hero and monster alike. They excel at blending in with the seething mob of kobolds, springing out to deliver their lethal strike.

Most revered of all are the Wyrm Claw Templars. These elevated Ironscales are granted mighty draconic steeds and thick armor. Their ferocity and extraordinary skill at arms is legendary. Truly their threat is tempered only by the small number of kobolds that can rise to the challenge.

The Dragon Blades are sworn enemies to the Cult of the Burning Claw. These enigmatic figures are always solitary and only found in areas where draconic creatures make their homes. They are ruthless combatants against any foe but take particular relish when faced with their most hated foes—dragons.

The Claws of the Wyrm is an all new warband. Perfect for expanding your games of Super Dungeon Explore. It will be available as an optional purchase add-on for $30.

Unless I very much miss-remember, the Wyrm Claw templar is the missing Dark Hero, and he looks pretty sweet!

**spiralingcadaver**

Mehhhhh... (That would be a "meh" that turns into an exasperated sigh.) An expansion aimed towards the original core rather than KS material.

I haven't changed my stance since the very first day of this KS: expecting to get the core, and maybe not-San and/or the KD crossover. I've felt the add-ons to be pretty uninspiring.

**PomWallaby**

I'm starting to get mid project cold feet. Concerned that this project may go the way of Relic Knights with the added worry that SPM can announce whatever postage price they want to the "captive" EU market. Plenty of time to settle my nerves though.