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Made in jp
Regular Dakkanaut




If I remember correctly the main reason/sale point
for changing from 7th to 8th was to avoid this
mess of rules everywhere...

Boy were they succesfull...
   
Made in us
Excited Doom Diver






I'm pretty excited about the changes in secondaries and the primary missions
Mostly, as my buddy uses lictors for retrieve data, and engade on a fronts and it's incredibly annoying and now he won't be able to do that lol.

Wolfspear's 2k
Harlequins 2k
Chaos Knights 2k
Spiderfangs 2k
Ossiarch Bonereapers 1k 
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity






Have we seen a price for this yet or still just conjecture?

 
   
Made in us
Flashy Flashgitz




North Carolina

$40 I believe.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

Dudeface wrote:
/snip


I agree it would be weird to drop an army over a single release like this, but we aren’t talking about just one release. We’re talking about playing a faction for years and seeing it arbitrarily bounce all over the meta spectrum. Over time, you just get tired of it. Or at least that’s what’s happening to me.

I’m not currently a serious tournament player, though I have been. I actually won best general at the 40K UKGT a couple of times in previous editions and I went 5-0 at the last LGT I went to in 2019. I had a baby last year so haven’t had time for events (and nurgle intervened anyway) but I still know my way around a table.

I’ve got a couple of armies vaguely on the go: Crimson Fists, which I started at the beginning of 8th, and Necrons that started with Indomitus.

The Fists are widely regarded as the weakest marine faction. They were sort of ok in 8th and I could do respectfully well with them till their supplement dropped. Then for a brief time they did incredibly well, hosing armies off the field, until the nerf bat came for them and sent them right to the bottom of the hill. I’ve occasionally thought about trying to make a halfway decent list from them built around Kantor and Redemptors (not an awful combo but hardly stunning, but this update has made that list 30 points more expensive. Talk about kicking me while I’m down!

Meanwhile we have the necrons. Wow, what a ride! So far these guys have seen more rules updates than I’ve played games with them. I’m painting them up pretty slowly and every time I finish a unit (or get close to finishing it) it seems everything else gets buffs, leaving it behind. I’ve finished 20 reaper warriors and have 10 lychguard with shields on my desk, almost done. Both were already core and neither had their points drop, and neither have yet seen a table.

Meanwhile I’ve got a Tau army in storage that might just turn out to be incredibly powerful once their book is out.

Overall the feeling is that I can’t keep up and, even if I could, the reward for doing so isn’t really worth it. There are simply better games.

xttz wrote:
Mandragola wrote:

I’ve got a couple of younger cousins. When they were teenagers their parents bought them some 40K orks and marines. The one with orks lost every game so they decided it wasn’t worth the money or hassle, and stopped. I think about that quite a lot (often when GW releases a hopelessly unbalanced battle box or starter) because it must happen all the time. And maybe my cousins were right to quit all those years ago.


This situation is equally likely to happen even under a 'perfectly' balanced game though. A new player picking up something like Drukhari right now doesn't automatically get to win their first games just because that faction currently posts 60%+ win rates in a competitive environment. If they're up against more experienced players they're going to make the usual new player mistakes and may still lose. Then if GW manage to balance Drukhari in a future update and bring them in line with other faction winrates, new Drukhari players are even less likely to win initial games.

Further more, competitive rankings and faction balance comparisons are a result of an environment where all game rules are used to their fullest extent. How many brand new 40k players understand how to "play the mission" rather than just trying to kill enemy units? Even two equally skilled new players will get disjointed results if they're using factions where one has been successfully balanced around objective play or special rules over raw killing power. Think GSC versus Space Marines as an obvious example; the latter is far more forgiving of mistakes than the former.

That isn't an argument against improving game balance, just pointing out that the process doesn't help new players to the same extent people assume it would.

That’s all true of course. I do think balance would help new players but they’d still be new, the barriers to entry would still be high and they’d still make mistakes.

I do think it would help them if there weren’t the seriously bad units. I was really struck by the banshee release a while back, for example. It heist felt such a shame to bring them out while their rules were so awful.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/23 13:37:25


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







 AduroT wrote:
Have we seen a price for this yet or still just conjecture?

£25 on the UK site - it's up on pre-order on GW.com at the moment.

2021 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My [url=https://pileofpotential.com/dysartes]Pile of Potential[/url - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army... 
   
Made in fr
Lesser Daemon of Chaos






 AduroT wrote:
Have we seen a price for this yet or still just conjecture?


32.50€ and still not up for pre in dollars or Aussie bux.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/23 15:01:54


-"For the Ruinous Powers!" 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought




 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
Have we seen a price for this yet or still just conjecture?


32.50€ and still not up for pre in dollars or Aussi bux.


https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/warzone-nachmund-grand-tournament-mission-pack-2022-eng

For Aussie on the pre-order article:

* Unfortunately, Chapter Approved 2022 has been slightly delayed in Australia and New Zealand, but don’t worry – it’ll be out in February.
   
Made in ca
Charing Cold One Knight





I agree it would be weird to drop an army over a single release like this, but we aren’t talking about just one release. We’re talking about playing a faction for years and seeing it arbitrarily bounce all over the meta spectrum. Over time, you just get tired of it. Or at least that’s what’s happening to me.


Pretty much same here. Only thing that has kept me going is that I own several armies so when one army goes down in nerf flames I can pick up another(I expect my first army will have a rebound in the new CW release). However, as I grow older I feel less and less bothered to keep up with this game and have started looking elsewhere. Have a sizable Star Wars Legion force and MCP gangs, and I have been playtesting High Elves in One Page Rules which has been surprisingly fun. Also tempted to take a gander at LotR to scratch my fantasy itch.

Currently I probably play Crusade more than anything else and thankfully the PL have been relatively stable so if there are imbalances at least my playgroup can address that without much of a hitch.
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




 AduroT wrote:
Have we seen a price for this yet or still just conjecture?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/warzone-nachmund-grand-tournament-mission-pack-2022-eng

$40. For two tiny 56 page books, mostly revisions of things already in print (though the missions do seem to be better overall)

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in fr
Lesser Daemon of Chaos






Voss wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
Have we seen a price for this yet or still just conjecture?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/warzone-nachmund-grand-tournament-mission-pack-2022-eng

$40. For two tiny 56 page books, mostly revisions of things already in print (though the missions do seem to be better overall)


Ouch...

-"For the Ruinous Powers!" 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Anyone want to guess why GW didn't address Ork Troops at all?

You have entire lists not even taking troops choices because of how bad they are and yet GW didn't give them a price cut or some incentive to make them at least usable.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




SemperMortis wrote:
Anyone want to guess why GW didn't address Ork Troops at all?

Probably because at the time they wrote the book, it was too close to the release of the ork codex to determine anything with actual data.

Dark gods know what lead to the Custodes decisions though. I can only assume they sent the wrong codex draft to the printer, and this was the only way to fix it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/23 15:46:28


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
drbored wrote:
What an awful book. Points changes that should have been free, rules updates that should have been free, and missions that are just more of the same with slightly different maps for the deployment and objective.
And now they're going to release them twice a year!

So they ask a "measly" 38 CHF from me. Or 36.76 Euro or
41.70 Dollar

for 14 CHF more i can get the ork commandos, get 10 really nice models i can use over multiple editions of this game, can build, get bits to build more and paint....

On the point of commandos, time to hoist a sneaky grinning ork and start singing orky shanties, because for those minescule changes and some new missions, yeah ... nope.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SemperMortis wrote:
Anyone want to guess why GW didn't address Ork Troops at all?

You have entire lists not even taking troops choices because of how bad they are and yet GW didn't give them a price cut or some incentive to make them at least usable.

T5 is really strong i heard.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/23 15:51:29


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Not Online!!! wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Anyone want to guess why GW didn't address Ork Troops at all?

You have entire lists not even taking troops choices because of how bad they are and yet GW didn't give them a price cut or some incentive to make them at least usable.

T5 is really strong i heard.


Gotta be honest, I was petrified when they announced T5 that they were going to nerf boyz so hard that T5 would be irrelevant. Turns out I was right

Lets assume 2 month lead time to write rules and send to printer. Orkz except for about the first month haven't been using troops pretty much at all. So why the hell would they not fix the biggest glaring problem with the ork codex, that being that NONE of our troops choices are worth taking.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





SemperMortis wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Anyone want to guess why GW didn't address Ork Troops at all?

You have entire lists not even taking troops choices because of how bad they are and yet GW didn't give them a price cut or some incentive to make them at least usable.

T5 is really strong i heard.


Gotta be honest, I was petrified when they announced T5 that they were going to nerf boyz so hard that T5 would be irrelevant. Turns out I was right

Lets assume 2 month lead time to write rules and send to printer. Orkz except for about the first month haven't been using troops pretty much at all. So why the hell would they not fix the biggest glaring problem with the ork codex, that being that NONE of our troops choices are worth taking.


As anyone with printing industry knowledge basically can attest... these have been basically already been done 6 months ago, with leadup time, maybee 7-8 months ago.

so basically they took a shotgun into the dark night to shoot a molehill in a forrest. And they didn't bring flashlights
Or atleast that is what their approach seems to be.
Meanwhile after testing my GSC against my own orks... t5 became even more irrelevant Not that GSC didn't need a buff, but thanks to the wounding table being still several chromosomes short of being a functional piece of this game...that will remain that way...
ION enjoy 12 ppm infil boyzs.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/23 16:06:24


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





 CKO wrote:
I think making the game competitive has proven to be profitable. That is why we see the type of changes GW is making.


Nerfing DG into the ground while doing nothing to Dark Eldar is "making the game competitive"? The problem is they suck at balancing things and insist on an outdated way to sell their rules when digital is the only way that makes sense for frequent updates.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Not Online!!! wrote:


As anyone with printing industry knowledge basically can attest... these have been basically already been done 6 months ago, with leadup time, maybee 7-8 months ago.

so basically they took a shotgun into the dark night to shoot a molehill in a forrest. And they didn't bring flashlights
Or atleast that is what their approach seems to be.
Meanwhile after testing my GSC against my own orks... t5 became even more irrelevant Not that GSC didn't need a buff, but thanks to the wounding table being still several chromosomes short of being a functional piece of this game...that will remain that way...
ION enjoy 12 ppm infil boyzs.


That just isn't true though. It does not take 6 months to print books. Major publishers can push out books in weeks let alone months and believe it or not but GW is a massive company that falls into that category now.

I can prove that lead time false with just common sense based on this release. Why nerf Squigbuggies at all if it was printed 6 months ago? For reference, 6 months ago was BEFORE the ork codex got released. So they were able to sneak in nerfs to the best competing units for orkz that were problematic since the codex was released in September (4 months ago) so clearly they had the ability to fix crap units in the ork codex and chose not to.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




So gathering information from other places, everything except the new missions and secondaries has been HARSHLY panned by the majority of people.

Consensus is that it's overpriced, especially for something with a 6 month shelf life. The nerfs to DG, Orkz, Sisters, Chaos Daemons, and weirdly Guard are exceptionally dumb and their paltry attempt to raise units up were more insult than anything.

is a bad book.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/23 16:37:37


2500pts
2500
3000


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




GW have to
A) Discuss what they want in the book.
B) Finalise every aspect of the book.
C) Print it.
D) Get it shipped all around the world.
E) Get it available in every shop ahead of release. (Also have advanced copies, stuff for the potato cameras etc etc).

From finishing off B I think you could maybe get things done in 4 months - but it wouldn't give you much scope if anything went wrong - and in the current circumstances, things are going wrong with international shipping all the time.

I don't think its unreasonable that A) is concluding 6 months before release - if not considerably before.

I suspect with Orks this just means they knew they'd dun goofed with Squigbuggies etc but that Codex went to print at some point in Q1 2021. Possibly even earlier. Quite why they didn't day 1 FAQ nerf them like say Raiders isn't clear, but maybe they just didn't want to.

Anyway I hope this scarcely sells and is such a flop GW rethink the whole thing. The idea people are going to meet a £50 a year tax just to play 40k is insane.
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

SemperMortis wrote:

That just isn't true though. It does not take 6 months to print books. Major publishers can push out books in weeks let alone months and believe it or not but GW is a massive company that falls into that category now.

are they on the level of a major publisher?
and one thing you have to consider is that they don't have printers all over the world, so need to ship things around to be in the stores for release

4 months is the best I could guess as lead time from going to the printers to worldwide release

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Tyel wrote:
GW have to
A) Discuss what they want in the book.
B) Finalise every aspect of the book.
C) Print it.
D) Get it shipped all around the world.
E) Get it available in every shop ahead of release. (Also have advanced copies, stuff for the potato cameras etc etc).

From finishing off B I think you could maybe get things done in 4 months - but it wouldn't give you much scope if anything went wrong - and in the current circumstances, things are going wrong with international shipping all the time.

I don't think its unreasonable that A) is concluding 6 months before release - if not considerably before.

I suspect with Orks this just means they knew they'd dun goofed with Squigbuggies etc but that Codex went to print at some point in Q1 2021. Possibly even earlier. Quite why they didn't day 1 FAQ nerf them like say Raiders isn't clear, but maybe they just didn't want to.

Anyway I hope this scarcely sells and is such a flop GW rethink the whole thing. The idea people are going to meet a £50 a year tax just to play 40k is insane.


I have no idea where you guys are pulling these numbers from. With my absolutely garbage printer I can print a copy of CA in a minute? You don't think a major print company couldn't bang out a couple hundred thousand to a million a day? You are out of your minds, as far as shipping worldwide? It takes 15-30 days to ship around the world, assuming GW doesn't just use local printers in those host countries or host areas, IE print in Germany distribute to most of Europe as opposed to printing in China and shipping around the world. DOUBLE that time and you are still talking about 2 months not 6+

And again, Orkz had their competitive units nerfed into the ground, this from the same company that didn't realize that the Stompa was going to be crap for 20+ years, so sorry if I don't believe them to have enough foresight to predict The Squig buggy and kommandos would be competitive this edition

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

SemperMortis wrote:
I have no idea where you guys are pulling these numbers from. With my absolutely garbage printer I can print a copy of CA in a minute? You don't think a major print company couldn't bang out a couple hundred thousand to a million a day? You are out of your minds, as far as shipping worldwide? It takes 15-30 days to ship around the world, assuming GW doesn't just use local printers in those host countries or host areas, IE print in Germany distribute to most of Europe as opposed to printing in China and shipping around the world. DOUBLE that time and you are still talking about 2 months not 6+
I import goods for a living and I can assure you the time necessary to bring goods to market by container is measured in months, not weeks. And that is from the point of completed materials. Before that you have to add in production time. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it takes GW 4-6 months from finalized copy to be ready to release a book for sale.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 alextroy wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
I have no idea where you guys are pulling these numbers from. With my absolutely garbage printer I can print a copy of CA in a minute? You don't think a major print company couldn't bang out a couple hundred thousand to a million a day? You are out of your minds, as far as shipping worldwide? It takes 15-30 days to ship around the world, assuming GW doesn't just use local printers in those host countries or host areas, IE print in Germany distribute to most of Europe as opposed to printing in China and shipping around the world. DOUBLE that time and you are still talking about 2 months not 6+
I import goods for a living and I can assure you the time necessary to bring goods to market by container is measured in months, not weeks. And that is from the point of completed materials. Before that you have to add in production time. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it takes GW 4-6 months from finalized copy to be ready to release a book for sale.


One of my closest friends is a Merchant Marine He routinely travels to Asia from the Pacific Northwest (Seattle/Tacoma) on big cargo ships. His two-way trip usually took 45-55 days, i know because when I was stuck out on that coast I would grab a beer with him when he pulled into harbor. SO no, if it takes 4-6 months for a company to print a book and ship it, then they fail as a company

So 15-30 days to traverse the pacific (biggest ocean) on a cargo ship. So that leaves MONTHS to print and distribute the book. So no, I don't believe it takes them 4-6 months to write new rules and print them and ship them around the world...and that again is only if they are using a SINGLE print location which would be a bit silly unless that print location is dirt cheap and the shipping costs aren't going to just artificially destroy the price...(Sorry australia)

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in ro
Fresh-Faced New User





 alextroy wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
I have no idea where you guys are pulling these numbers from. With my absolutely garbage printer I can print a copy of CA in a minute? You don't think a major print company couldn't bang out a couple hundred thousand to a million a day? You are out of your minds, as far as shipping worldwide? It takes 15-30 days to ship around the world, assuming GW doesn't just use local printers in those host countries or host areas, IE print in Germany distribute to most of Europe as opposed to printing in China and shipping around the world. DOUBLE that time and you are still talking about 2 months not 6+
I import goods for a living and I can assure you the time necessary to bring goods to market by container is measured in months, not weeks. And that is from the point of completed materials. Before that you have to add in production time. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it takes GW 4-6 months from finalized copy to be ready to release a book for sale.


Exactly. Heck before Covid and the shipping crisis Andy Hoare told us it took a year for a House of book to go to the printers and the be ready for release! Now with the shipping crisis, who knows, but these books are printed in China and that takes a lot of time - never mind the development time.

Overall, this is a bizarre form of release if it is a "balance"; instead it's "out of date" compared to our lived experiences - perhaps by as much as a year if GW use the same printing schedule as AH refers to in the video i linked to, perhaps a smaller amount of time for an order of this scale (do you think they print 10000 of these, 20000, 50000, 100000, etc)?
   
Made in ca
Charing Cold One Knight





Ultimately the point is that balance updates like these should not be done on an archaic form of paper.

If they really want to charge us for these balance updates then just make it part of the Warhammer+ subscription. It would probably even help them sell a few subs instead of this current fiasco.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/23 19:01:27


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





SemperMortis wrote:
 alextroy wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
I have no idea where you guys are pulling these numbers from. With my absolutely garbage printer I can print a copy of CA in a minute? You don't think a major print company couldn't bang out a couple hundred thousand to a million a day? You are out of your minds, as far as shipping worldwide? It takes 15-30 days to ship around the world, assuming GW doesn't just use local printers in those host countries or host areas, IE print in Germany distribute to most of Europe as opposed to printing in China and shipping around the world. DOUBLE that time and you are still talking about 2 months not 6+
I import goods for a living and I can assure you the time necessary to bring goods to market by container is measured in months, not weeks. And that is from the point of completed materials. Before that you have to add in production time. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it takes GW 4-6 months from finalized copy to be ready to release a book for sale.


One of my closest friends is a Merchant Marine He routinely travels to Asia from the Pacific Northwest (Seattle/Tacoma) on big cargo ships. His two-way trip usually took 45-55 days, i know because when I was stuck out on that coast I would grab a beer with him when he pulled into harbor. SO no, if it takes 4-6 months for a company to print a book and ship it, then they fail as a company

So 15-30 days to traverse the pacific (biggest ocean) on a cargo ship. So that leaves MONTHS to print and distribute the book. So no, I don't believe it takes them 4-6 months to write new rules and print them and ship them around the world...and that again is only if they are using a SINGLE print location which would be a bit silly unless that print location is dirt cheap and the shipping costs aren't going to just artificially destroy the price...(Sorry australia)


I work in production, import, export and have a lot of business knowledge and just no. A perfectly managed (people issues such as absences, process, policy, inter-personal, delivery checks, distribution network) with no transport (weather is a thing, criminals), trade (borders, processing, changing legislation, docking ports, unloading/loading are things), admin (right paperwork at the right time both internal and external), quality (test, check, feedback and correct), communication (time zones, language barriers, memory) or tech issues (scanners, machinery, computers, ERP software)... sure.

A normal, realistic organisation in this reality on earth... no. So much can and will go wrong.

- 10,000 pts CSM  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





SemperMortis wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Anyone want to guess why GW didn't address Ork Troops at all?

You have entire lists not even taking troops choices because of how bad they are and yet GW didn't give them a price cut or some incentive to make them at least usable.

T5 is really strong i heard.


Gotta be honest, I was petrified when they announced T5 that they were going to nerf boyz so hard that T5 would be irrelevant. Turns out I was right

Lets assume 2 month lead time to write rules and send to printer. Orkz except for about the first month haven't been using troops pretty much at all. So why the hell would they not fix the biggest glaring problem with the ork codex, that being that NONE of our troops choices are worth taking.


Here's my garbage take.

Wracks.

M7 S3 T4 A2, 6++/5+++, AP1 & Poison

Snagga Boyz.

M5 S5 T5 A2, 6++, AP1, extra attack, & +1 to hit vs VEH/MON, W2 Nob

Turn 2 Advance and Charge vs Waaagh Advance and Charge
Turn 3 +1 to hit vs Waaagh +1A for two turns

For 80 points you can make Wracks T5.
For 80 to 85 points you can give Boyz 6++ or 6+++.

S4 AP1 Wound

6++ Snaggas - 0.28
6++/6+++ Snaggas - 0.23
T4 Wracks - 0.28 ( 0.22 by round 4 )
T5 Wracks - 0.18 ( 0.15 by round 4 )

For 20 Wracks and a Haemonculus you can get 16 to 17 Snaggas and a Painboy. Snaggas are going to hit harder in melee and have a close enough durability profile.

20 Wracks are commonly used in Thicc City. They Webway for 1CP. Orks can do the same for 2CP.

T5 matters. There is a very low volume of S6 shooting in most lists.

Drukhari on the whole have a lot of really good strats that push them over the edge. You're not going to run multiple hordes of Boyz, but I bet you could run a 19 man in a BW with a Painboy and cause a significant amount of disruption. Orks also have super killy characters and cheap useful shooting.

Maybe Boyz will get to 8 points, but they're never going lower than that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/23 19:47:14


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Anyone want to guess why GW didn't address Ork Troops at all?

You have entire lists not even taking troops choices because of how bad they are and yet GW didn't give them a price cut or some incentive to make them at least usable.

T5 is really strong i heard.


Gotta be honest, I was petrified when they announced T5 that they were going to nerf boyz so hard that T5 would be irrelevant. Turns out I was right

Lets assume 2 month lead time to write rules and send to printer. Orkz except for about the first month haven't been using troops pretty much at all. So why the hell would they not fix the biggest glaring problem with the ork codex, that being that NONE of our troops choices are worth taking.


Here's my garbage take.

Wracks.

M7 S3 T4 A2, 6++/5+++, AP1 & Poison

Snagga Boyz.

M5 S5 T5 A2, 6++, AP1, extra attack, & +1 to hit vs VEH/MON, W2 Nob

Turn 2 Advance and Charge vs Waaagh Advance and Charge
Turn 3 +1 to hit vs Waaagh +1A for two turns

For 80 points you can make Wracks T5.
For 80 to 85 points you can give Boyz 6++ or 6+++.

S4 AP1 Wound

6++ Snaggas - 0.28
6++/6+++ Snaggas - 0.23
T4 Wracks - 0.28 ( 0.22 by round 4 )
T5 Wracks - 0.18 ( 0.15 by round 4 )

For 20 Wracks and a Haemonculus you can get 16 to 17 Snaggas and a Painboy. Snaggas are going to hit harder in melee and have a close enough durability profile.

20 Wracks are commonly used in Thicc City. They Webway for 1CP. Orks can do the same for 2CP.

T5 matters. There is a very low volume of S6 shooting in most lists.

Drukhari on the whole have a lot of really good strats that push them over the edge. You're not going to run multiple hordes of Boyz, but I bet you could run a 19 man in a BW with a Painboy and cause a significant amount of disruption. Orks also have super killy characters and cheap useful shooting.

Maybe Boyz will get to 8 points, but they're never going lower than that.


Boyz would be useless at 7ppm LOL.

What happens to wracks when they lose 4 models? to they run away most of the time and lose 20% of their mob to morale? Do they have reliable/cheap transports? Do they have plethora of buffs worth using on them? I can keep going. Boyz suck and nothing is going to change that except a rules change but that isn't going to happen likely this edition.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





SemperMortis wrote:
SNIP

What happens to wracks when they lose 4 models? to they run away most of the time and lose 20% of their mob to morale? Do they have reliable/cheap transports? Do they have plethora of buffs worth using on them? I can keep going. Boyz suck and nothing is going to change that except a rules change but that isn't going to happen likely this edition.


I'd not even dare field a snagga boy, atm because they have the same issues as boys but are somehow more expensive...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
 
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