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Inquisitor (with servitor squad)
Hell rifle

3 plasma cannon servitors, 3 plasma gun acolytes (in bunker)
Landraider crusader (Mephy goes in here during turn 1)
Multimelta, psybolts

3 bolter acolytes
Landraider crusader
Multimelta, psybolts

1 bolter acolyte, 2 lasgun acolytes
Landraider crusader
Multimelta, psybolts

Mephiston (starts behind empty raider then embarks)

5 assault marines
Landraider redeemer
Multimelta

Stormraven
Tl Assault cannon, tl multimelta

Bunker
Ammo dump (occupants reroll 1's to hit)

1800pts

4 objective secured landraiders (1 with mephy inside!), raven for AA, and a 'stationary av14 vehicle' which puts out 3 st7 ap2 blasts, 3 to 6 st7 ap2 shots and a st6 ap3 shot all rerolling 1's to hit. 5 multimeltas on durable platforms (and potms).

I would put Mephiston in the raven, so you don't have to risk first turn death.

Is anything in/on the bunker?

Looks fine, meltas will screw your list.

Cheers for the feedback.
Inquisitor plus servitor squad in bunker.
Mephy doesn't have to worry about 1st turn death (unless I know the opponent has a plasma filled drop pod) as he will be out of LoS due to the raider he is hiding behind. Getting in the raider means he can assault out of it thus not having to drop the raven into hover to prevent him sitting around uselessly after dropping out.
If I know im facing a melta drop pod list, I would start the raiders away from each other. Therefore they cannot combat squad a sternie unit to deal with 2 for instance and mephy can deal with a unit whilst the surviving raiders and bunker deal with the rest. Melta is indeed a problem but I can focus on it if it is not from a drop, it is also 33.3% less effective than before. Also most people do not have enough to deal with 5 av14 threats, whilst also dealing with a raven and mephiston in a 1800pt list.

1 Prism sticks to the left, 1 WS sticks to the front, 1 WS to the right aligned with the LR, disembark fire dragons, Backdoor Fusion Action, no survivors.

And yes, I am shooting your rear armor even if it's AV14, because that's how I roll.

I can do that simultaneously on three points on the map.

I would love to play against your list just to see such destruction


How do you plan to handle such threats ? Players blocking your hatches and melting your face ? I can see that you don't really mind because those transports contain nothing of importance... but I expect any list capable of handling a standard Mech to have no problem dealing with your army.


Also, something I don't understand, aren't LR limited to 3 by FoC ?

Blood Angels take them as dedicated transports.

Why in the world would you take fire dragons? They Are too expensive, war walkers would do better.

Anyway, that would (Maybe) Kill two. Fire Prism Wouldn't, Fire dragons might.

LR's have 3 deployment hatches. You can't block all three unless you put all your units there.

And you're elder. So whatever.

Whilst the list in theory is ok against drop pod salamanders you'd lose 2-3 land raiders from there alpha strike. Your problem is is that land raiders can get melted to death far too easily and once you've lost them you have no shooting.

Sorry but no. Radiers do NOT get melted easily. The only way to pop them without melta is double six's from str 9 (or a mega Nov squad, but I'm just looking at shooting)

Personally I would fit in a tech priest or two for repairs as most armies will be hull pointing the raiders.

morgoth wrote:
1 Prism sticks to the left, 1 WS sticks to the front, 1 WS to the right aligned with the LR, disembark fire dragons, Backdoor Fusion Action, no survivors.

And yes, I am shooting your rear armor even if it's AV14, because that's how I roll.

I can do that simultaneously on three points on the map.

I would love to play against your list just to see such destruction


How do you plan to handle such threats ? Players blocking your hatches and melting your face ? I can see that you don't really mind because those transports contain nothing of importance... but I expect any list capable of handling a standard Mech to have no problem dealing with your army.


Also, something I don't understand, aren't LR limited to 3 by FoC ?

Ha I would love to see you play this to see your plan not work, because it wont.
The fire prism is really a terrible anti tank. has a 1/3 chance of glancing/penning the land raider (after hitting), then if the land raider was in any sort of cover, which is easily done, your chances go down even further. And even then, you need to roll a 4-6 to pen.
If a land rader is in 5+ cover you have about a 1/9 chance of killing a land raider. So after 9 turns.
5 fire dragons (the norm) will hit with just around 3. 3 shots, usually about one pen, one glance, and one fail. 1/3 chance.
Besides thats counting both wave serpents surviving and unloading the fire dragons.
Ohh and even if you kill 2 land raiders, theres 2 left. And theres about no chance those fragons are surviving.
That leaves you with the fire prism with a 1/9 chance of killing a land raider.
Yay

Ok so at 1500pt my space wolf drop pod list has 5 multi meltas with Logan. 21 combi meltas, 2 plasma 2 combi plasma s and two flamers. Turn one I would do 12.5 hull points of damage with the meltas before you factor in damage results. So you would have just one land raider left after my alpha strike. Plus this is just a 1500 point list so add in another 300points and you'd probably get tabled.

Never seen SW go anything but plasma spam. The counter lists are real.

 raiden wrote:
Never seen SW go anything but plasma spam. The counter lists are real.

It's the change to 7th that's bringing in the meltas.

-Matt

 Glorywarrior wrote:
Blood Angels take them as dedicated transports.

Why in the world would you take fire dragons? They Are too expensive, war walkers would do better.

Anyway, that would (Maybe) Kill two. Fire Prism Wouldn't, Fire dragons might.

LR's have 3 deployment hatches. You can't block all three unless you put all your units there.

And you're elder. So whatever.

lol. I can block all three and pop a Land Raider with two transports, one with DA and one with FD. Guess how

The Fire Prism has a S9AP1 lance shot, I'm pretty sure it stands a decent chance to damage the Land Raider should the Fusion Boys fail.

War Walkers you can't put in Serpents, so I don't take them


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

morgoth wrote:
1 Prism sticks to the left, 1 WS sticks to the front, 1 WS to the right aligned with the LR, disembark fire dragons, Backdoor Fusion Action, no survivors.

And yes, I am shooting your rear armor even if it's AV14, because that's how I roll.

I can do that simultaneously on three points on the map.

I would love to play against your list just to see such destruction


How do you plan to handle such threats ? Players blocking your hatches and melting your face ? I can see that you don't really mind because those transports contain nothing of importance... but I expect any list capable of handling a standard Mech to have no problem dealing with your army.


Also, something I don't understand, aren't LR limited to 3 by FoC ?

Ha I would love to see you play this to see your plan not work, because it wont.
The fire prism is really a terrible anti tank. has a 1/3 chance of glancing/penning the land raider (after hitting), then if the land raider was in any sort of cover, which is easily done, your chances go down even further. And even then, you need to roll a 5-6 to pen.
If a land rader is in 5+ cover you have about a 1/9 chance of killing a land raider. So after 9 turns.
5 fire dragons (the norm) will hit with just around 3. 3 shots, usually about one pen, one glance, and one fail. 1/3 chance.
Besides thats counting both wave serpents surviving and unloading the fire dragons.
Ohh and even if you kill 2 land raiders, theres 2 left. And theres about no chance those fragons are surviving.
That leaves you with the fire prism with a 1/9 chance of killing a land raider.
Yay

The Fire Prism, which is indeed a terrible anti-tank, has a S9AP1 lance weapon, with a penetrating +2 hit on 4+ and a glancing hit on 3.
Said Fire Prism in the example was about 1" away from the Land Raider, I'm pretty sure there would be no cover save
5 Fire dragons have an Exarch Fast shot, so 6 shots, 4 hits, 2D6 means on average 2 pens 0 glance. >snip< no they do not get to charge anything. bad dragons.
Add 1 S6 Pen6 shot across the two Serpents (lol) and that's another .16 fail .16 glance .66 pen.
Good thing we still have either more Fire Dragon or Fire Prism to make it a sure-kill though.
I don't see how you expect two Wave Serpents dying during my turn if I'm moving them, but I have more than enough to have two per Land Raider, even if I may have to do them two by two
If you get to focus and kill the two units of fragons with your two other Land Raiders, there should still be a third one, two Prisms and well ... I don't think you're winning this one

Oh? So now wave serpents are assault vehicles?

I guess not, bad memories from old versions cloud my mind...

I think the list is a gimmick it may catch some armies out but others will table you very easily I.e drop pods. I think the meta is changing back to melta spam (I never changed) and this will be the end of lists like this.some armies like tau will have serious problems with it but others will work around it.

Yep rock paper scissors. However not a huge amount of lists can deal with 5 av14 threats and an av12 flyer. A mass melta drop works against it but very few people just take melta on the drop. The melta would be what you focus on anyway.
I think it would be a hard match against mass melta, but tabling means you seriously undervalue av14, cover and the new damage chart.
Fire prisms are not a serious threat against LRs compared to fragons and wraithguard in serpents. The fragons/wraithguard wont get you a guarateed kill but they have a good chance. It is also difficult to take down a serp before they disembark these units. But I rarely see multiple units of fragons or wraithguard so unless somebody tailored I wouldnt be worried.
And the only true problem here is the fact that serpents are rediculously difficult to take down. The fact that a serp is so OP doesn't reduce this lists effectiveness against lists that are not serp spams.

Land raider lists seem just to always have a rock paper scissors mechanic.

morgoth wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

morgoth wrote:
1 Prism sticks to the left, 1 WS sticks to the front, 1 WS to the right aligned with the LR, disembark fire dragons, Backdoor Fusion Action, no survivors.

And yes, I am shooting your rear armor even if it's AV14, because that's how I roll.

I can do that simultaneously on three points on the map.

I would love to play against your list just to see such destruction


How do you plan to handle such threats ? Players blocking your hatches and melting your face ? I can see that you don't really mind because those transports contain nothing of importance... but I expect any list capable of handling a standard Mech to have no problem dealing with your army.


Also, something I don't understand, aren't LR limited to 3 by FoC ?

Ha I would love to see you play this to see your plan not work, because it wont.
The fire prism is really a terrible anti tank. has a 1/3 chance of glancing/penning the land raider (after hitting), then if the land raider was in any sort of cover, which is easily done, your chances go down even further. And even then, you need to roll a 5-6 to pen.
If a land rader is in 5+ cover you have about a 1/9 chance of killing a land raider. So after 9 turns.
5 fire dragons (the norm) will hit with just around 3. 3 shots, usually about one pen, one glance, and one fail. 1/3 chance.
Besides thats counting both wave serpents surviving and unloading the fire dragons.
Ohh and even if you kill 2 land raiders, theres 2 left. And theres about no chance those fragons are surviving.
That leaves you with the fire prism with a 1/9 chance of killing a land raider.
Yay

The Fire Prism, which is indeed a terrible anti-tank, has a S9AP1 lance weapon, with a penetrating +2 hit on 4+ and a glancing hit on 3.
Said Fire Prism in the example was about 1" away from the Land Raider, I'm pretty sure there would be no cover save
5 Fire dragons have an Exarch Fast shot, so 6 shots, 4 hits, 2D6 means on average 2 pens 0 glance. >snip< no they do not get to charge anything. bad dragons.
Add 1 S6 Pen6 shot across the two Serpents (lol) and that's another .16 fail .16 glance .66 pen.
Good thing we still have either more Fire Dragon or Fire Prism to make it a sure-kill though.
I don't see how you expect two Wave Serpents dying during my turn if I'm moving them, but I have more than enough to have two per Land Raider, even if I may have to do them two by two
If you get to focus and kill the two units of fragons with your two other Land Raiders, there should still be a third one, two Prisms and well ... I don't think you're winning this one

1: Wave serpents have absolutly nothing that can hurt a land raider. Re read the rules for the shuiken cannon.
2: So yes you have a high chance of killing 1 land raider. That leaves 3, and a bunker. Say your "other" fire dragons squad gets lucky and kills another land raider. so theres 2 land raiders left, and a bunker full of plasma. And like I said, theres no way on earth those FD are surviving another turn. So, on the next turn you have your terrible fire prisms as your only anti tank. Congrats.
3. If you had a wraithknight, it would be another story. But in your grand strategy you left that out.
3. Even if i dont kill 2 serpents in one turn (which was a bit of a long shot) I have the whole game, because after your dragons are dead its just cat and mouse.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

1: Wave serpents have absolutly nothing that can hurt a land raider. Re read the rules for the shuiken cannon.
2: So yes you have a high chance of killing 1 land raider. That leaves 3, and a bunker. Say your "other" fire dragons squad gets lucky and kills another land raider. so theres 2 land raiders left, and a bunker full of plasma. And like I said, theres no way on earth those FD are surviving another turn. So, on the next turn you have your terrible fire prisms as your only anti tank. Congrats.
3. If you had a wraithknight, it would be another story. But in your grand strategy you left that out.
3. Even if i dont kill 2 serpents in one turn (which was a bit of a long shot) I have the whole game, because after your dragons are dead its just cat and mouse.

1. Yes, I re-read the rules and my mind was still clouded by the words "Pseudo-rending" . Good thing I did not shoot at a Land Raider before I realized that.
2. I don't think it works that way
3. I don't have WK, but yes they would definitely tip the Eldar towards more competitive, and therefore have an even easier time against this LR list.
4. I have 7 WS and 2 Prisms, you cannot catch the prisms and they will certainly kill 2 Land Raiders in 6 turns. On top of that, you will not kill a single Wave Serpent after all the fire dragons are dead.
5. There are better counters.

I disagree. Fragons/wraithguard in a serp are one of the best counters as it is very difficult to down a serp before it drops off its cargo. But as ninjafiredragon says, unless you are running more than 2 fragon squads, which few people do, your fragons (and biggest threat to av14) will be dead as a dodo. Also they are not guaranteed a kill each.
The only other unit I can think of that will do a better job for cheaper, is a necron royal court with despairtek and 3 stormteks. But again you can only take 2 of these in a single FoC. Even scarabs will be being ID'd by all the assault cannons, flamestorm and plasma.
The point you miss about this list is that it will negate the majority of shooting from most armies.
Now if you can get 7 serpents, 2 prisms and at least 2 fragon squads into a 1800pts tac list, I salute you. But as I have already stated, this list is weak against serp spam (as are most lists). Against other lists (aside from crons of course), it has a very good chance of shining.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
The reason I say it is 'weak' against serp spam is that unlike any other vehicle in the game, 16 tl ac (12 st7) shots, 5 mm (1tl) shots, 6-9 plasma shots and 2 missile shots a turn means nothing to the super serp.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For once I would like to make a list (that isn't crons) where peoples reaction isn't 'my serp spam would do well against that'... of course it would - it is a serp spam... enough said!

Yep, AV14 Spam will wreck some people's day. Most lists just can't handle it. Solid.

IMO Mephy, Corbulo, 3x OS ASM Raiders, and 2xStorm Ravens is better at 1850.

I do love Mephy.

Land Raiders don't put out that much fire power, especially with new VDC, harder to kill stuff.

You may be right. I just think the 5pts extra for psybolt ammo with the inq crusaders, makes raiders go from slightly expensive to well worth the points.
I was origionally writting this list as a 2k list with a second raven, then realised at the last minute that I only had 1hs slot with BA being allies.
An advantage this list would have over pure BA is that mephy would get a raider rather than a raven transport so you don't have to worry about hovering and still nobody would be vulnerable left out in the open.

I like not having to hover, but you realize that if you want to shoot your weapons you would have to move 6" a turn? This would be not great, it would take you to turn 4, at most, to unload him.

That's why you plop him in a redeemer.

That said, my favorite raider is the godhammer. Lascannons hurt.

 Glorywarrior wrote:
I like not having to hover, but you realize that if you want to shoot your weapons you would have to move 6" a turn? This would be not great, it would take you to turn 4, at most, to unload him.

Not so much an issue - he's the counter attack! Most things that are a real danger to av14 need to get close thus giving him the ability to counter. Im ok if they want to sit back and shoot me with lascannons/mls etc. Vanquisher or lance spam may be a different matter...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
2 tl las are pretty nice, I just find them hard to stomach for 250pts -even on av14. If not using them as assault boats the only LR I find not slightly overcosted is the psybolt crusader... probably because im a tight b*stard from Yorkshire!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(Just realised non of you are british so that made no sense - yorkshiremen are stereotypically tight with their money)

Poly Ranger wrote:
I disagree. Fragons/wraithguard in a serp are one of the best counters as it is very difficult to down a serp before it drops off its cargo. But as ninjafiredragon says, unless you are running more than 2 fragon squads, which few people do, your fragons (and biggest threat to av14) will be dead as a dodo. Also they are not guaranteed a kill each.
The only other unit I can think of that will do a better job for cheaper, is a necron royal court with despairtek and 3 stormteks. But again you can only take 2 of these in a single FoC. Even scarabs will be being ID'd by all the assault cannons, flamestorm and plasma.
The point you miss about this list is that it will negate the majority of shooting from most armies.
Now if you can get 7 serpents, 2 prisms and at least 2 fragon squads into a 1800pts tac list, I salute you. But as I have already stated, this list is weak against serp spam (as are most lists). Against other lists (aside from crons of course), it has a very good chance of shining.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
The reason I say it is 'weak' against serp spam is that unlike any other vehicle in the game, 16 tl ac (12 st7) shots, 5 mm (1tl) shots, 6-9 plasma shots and 2 missile shots a turn means nothing to the super serp.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For once I would like to make a list (that isn't crons) where peoples reaction isn't 'my serp spam would do well against that'... of course it would - it is a serp spam... enough said!

I don't think I can put all that in 1800 points unfortunately (only 6 WS with three 6-shot FD squads) and I think a Serpent Spam is not one of the best lists an Eldar could muster against AV14 spam.
I really just meant to say that list would be easy to beat for anyone packing serious anti vehicle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Poly Ranger wrote:
You may be right. I just think the 5pts extra for psybolt ammo with the inq crusaders, makes raiders go from slightly expensive to well worth the points.
I was origionally writting this list as a 2k list with a second raven, then realised at the last minute that I only had 1hs slot with BA being allies.
An advantage this list would have over pure BA is that mephy would get a raider rather than a raven transport so you don't have to worry about hovering and still nobody would be vulnerable left out in the open.

Well, if you're into allied FoC Shenanigans and other pure optimization tactics, then your list is really really weak compared to the other allied FoC lists out there.

I guess you already knew that so I'll stop hammering that dead horse.

Ok write me a non- necron tac list without wave serpents that this is 'really really weak' against. At 1800pts.
And don't be saying you normally take 3 10 man sternguard squads all armed with combi meltas in a pod. Because that IS a really really weak tac list!

Poly Ranger wrote:
Ok write me a non- necron tac list without wave serpents that this is 'really really weak' against. At 1800pts.
And don't be saying you normally take 3 10 man sternguard squads all armed with combi meltas in a pod. Because that IS a really really weak tac list!

That's the thing, your list is not TAC either.

Whatever man, you'll know when you get tabled, I was just trying to make you realize your combo is not as effective as you think it is.

I'm pretty sure the following will table you in just a few turns:

3 WK + Seerstar, 2 MSU windriders, done. Sure it's all OP stuff, but if they can take you down in 3 turns, many non-OP armies can take you in 5.

That being said, without your restrictions, I would try to squeeze one WS of Fire Dragons in that. I would probably lose the SL and a bit of star but hey... gotta make concessions now and then. Or other improvements are still possible...

Either way, that's just one example of a competitive list that will TAC more than yours, and will obliterate yours.

The eldar player would have trouble with Mephiston.

In fact back to the argument that you would table him with your serpent list. Mephiston says no.
Toughness 9 with 2+ armor makes the wave serpents cry, toughness 9 makes fire dragons sad. I just faced him and shot 7 fire dragons into him, and got 1 wound. (granted he had curbolos 4+ feel no pain, see below) So if your getting as close as you claim you would, mephiston would stop all over your face.


Also OP drop 105 points somewhere some how and take curbolo, he makes Mephiston near unkillable. 4+ feel no pain??? Yes please!