Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Due to a bunch of stuff happening my 40K playing really trickled out near the end of 6th and for the first time since 3rd edition I have not bought the new rule book so I have no idea about what it's like. What's the general consensus about 7th edition?

Worse. Lots of new changes that suck, not much done about any of the problems with 6th.

Pretty much the same. Maybe a tiny bit better in areas.

I like the changes overall. Some of the implementation is a little wonky, but in general I feel like this is a step forward, personally.

Just my opinion. Favorite new thing is the Maelstrom o War missions.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

It has a lot of cool ideas. Dynamic objectives, imperials my faction got even more battle brothers then before.
But for my army it is a lot worse. I can't do mealstorm missions like other armies , unbound is as accepted here as FW , having a transition codex offten ends bad and it doesn't look like AM are going to be 7th necron.

The LoS for blast weapons is stupid, the way shoting is done right now slows the game even more compering to how it was in 5th. The games seems to be about lots of fast moving MSU units , super deathstars and stuff from 5th ed. My army doesn't have any of those 3 , so for me it is bad.
But I can imagine a GK or eldar player being super happy.

I really like it. My Thousand Sons are viable, and my Sisters and Necrons are still plugging away solidly. Maelstrom missions are really cool...

... and you'll be making it much more of a social event since some things work better if you discuss them before the game, because it does feel a bit rushed.

I really like 7th edition. I originally got into 40K at the end of 4th, beginning of 5th and missed 6th completely.

It's still largely the same as before, but in my opinion better, because it's more polished.

Eternal war is alright, but maelstrom of war is amazing with its dynamic objectives. As long as you don't mind a lot of randomness in your game, maelstrom is the way to go in my opinion!

Monstrous creatures nerfed LEEEEEROY JEEEENKINS

Most of my games can be classed as "semi-competitive" and I've yet to face any of the top-tier armies, so so far I'm satisfied with the 7th Edition. I like Maelstrom of War and the increased survivability of vehicles.

4th Option: havent bought it yet

Some of the things they fixed:

Challenges
Shooting different types of weapons creates separate pools
Charging into terrain
Grounding checks for FMC

Can't really place a vote that would fit my general perception. I believe this edition really demands like minded individuals to play together to have a good game. 7th pretty much unlocked the keys to the candy store and lets you do what you want in many ways. However, that is not to the liking for everyone. In a lot of ways, this has severely hindered pick up games and TO's are really trying to find a nice middle ground.

These days, due to life commitments, I play 1-2 days a month and plan out whom I will play with or attend a 1 or 2 day event in which I know in advance what my right and left limits are. The days of me showing up at the FLGS on a Saturday and play anyone with a pre-prepared list at 'x' points are gone for me.

When I do play with like minded individuals, I have a fun time and really enjoy the game. I just have to do a lot more planning than in the past.

If this is your attitude towards balance and fair comptetetiveness:



...then 7th edition is the funnest beer and pretzels 40k edition released so far with maelstrom of war, summoning and unbound format.

There are more random charts and cards that take away player choice. With the maelstrom missions overall game strategy is gone. With Unbound GW just said, feth it to game balance and power level. Now you can have a loyalist librarian summon demons and anything CC is probably overpriced and isn't very good at its job.

If you play with a like-minded group of friends. You'll have a lot of fun for a lot of money.
If you play pickup games it'll be more of an exercise in frustruation.

Overall, I think its a step forward.

I am not a fan of Unbound nor SHs and GCs in 40k. For fun games I just won't play against those, and for competitive games they'll either be disallowed or highly restricted. If not, I won't go.

So, overall, I'm happy with the new edition and think it was a solid step forward. Definitely not perfect, but better than 6th.

I think the best way to decide if the changes are good or bad is by simply by asking did you think 6th was an improvment on 5th?

If yes then 7th takes it even further in that direction, you should enjoy it.

If no, they simply expanded on the 'narrative' mindset of 6th, look unto mantics Warpath or Deadzone instead, they are more streamlined and better for competitive play.

Maelstrom games have been exceptionally balanced for me so far, and I have only had two games that were not very close in points. That being said, there is a risk that you will get completely crappy objectives and your opponent can get very good ones, but I haven't actually had that yet (at least not to a degree where the entire game was blown).

New psyker rules are terrible. It pretty much marginalizes psykers, making spells incredibly unreliable. But like everything GW, they won't be happy untim every aspect of the game is determined randomly. In fact, someday we will just roll a die at the start and declare a winner without playing.

Most of the rest of the changes were good, IMO. I play Eldar and the new jink rules have toned down the serpents a bit (except if you are playing for objectives, then you can just move quickly and score). The changes to IC's and allies toned down Tau (they are still very good, just not stupid anymore).

In the end, 40k is still not what I would call a balanced or competitive game, but I won't lie... I have been enjoying my games for what it is worth. I have other games I can play competitively when I want a fair game rather than Yahtzeehammer.

7th (6.5, really) would have been an improvement if they didn't add the psychic phase like they did. Not much, though. Still as borked as ever when it comes to balance.

Psychic phase is out of control, and has already started costing our regular demon players games. People show up with unbound expecting games, and get told to get lost, and don't understand why.

There are certainly things I don't like such as unbound armies. On the other hand death stars were limited and so were seer councils. With a good TO and some rules modifications 7th can be far more balanced than 5th and 6th.

Not a fan. I didn't like many of the changes in 6th, and 7th just jumped a higher shark. As such, I feel its worse.

Moktor wrote:

New psyker rules are terrible. It pretty much marginalizes psykers, making spells incredibly unreliable. But like everything GW, they won't be happy untim every aspect of the game is determined randomly. In fact, someday we will just roll a die at the start and declare a winner without playing.

But tau with eldar armies were already losing to eldar/dark eldar armies. And those weren't nerfed , those actualy got buffed by the D nerf.

My problem with psykers is that when you take one or two , they work like you just said. Totaly random , half the time you don't get off any spells. And then there is "magic" armies like Grey Knights or Demons that walk up with 14+ power dice per turn and the game changes in to me being unable to do anything to stop them. Who ever though that a 16pts power dice inside a 45pts power sice av 11 transport is a good idea should be wiped.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
7th (6.5, really) would have been an improvement if they didn't add the psychic phase like they did. Not much, though. Still as borked as ever when it comes to balance.

You really mean 3.4

The Psychic phase is definitely better balanced than it was in 6th. In 6th we watched people dish out buffs at 91% efficiency, now they have to devote 3-4 times the resources to do so near that level and every army has a chance, albeit a small one, to stop enemy blessings. That is huge. Even SeerStar etc have lost some effectiveness in the Psychic phase and Arnt are astringent as they were,

Yeah, GK can rack up Powerdice. Sure, but they have limited places to use them, and it still takes 3-4 Dice to cast a WC1 Power anywhere near 6th Ed Success a Rates.

Unbound Daemon armies not getting games? Why are they running Unbound? Players have a choice as to agreed army Comp, I for one won't play Unbound, if those Daemon Players want games, maybe they should file something BattleForged.m it's all about mutually agreed expectations for the game.

 Zagman wrote:
The Psychic phase is definitely better balanced than it was in 6th. In 6th we watched people dish out buffs at 91% efficiency, now they have to devote 3-4 times the resources to do so near that level and every army has a chance, albeit a small one, to stop enemy blessings. That is huge. Even SeerStar etc have lost some effectiveness in the Psychic phase and Arnt are astringent as they were,

Yeah, GK can rack up Powerdice. Sure, but they have limited places to use them, and it still takes 3-4 Dice to cast a WC1 Power anywhere near 6th Ed Success a Rates.

Unbound Daemon armies not getting games? Why are they running Unbound? Players have a choice as to agreed army Comp, I for one won't play Unbound, if those Daemon Players want games, maybe they should file something BattleForged.m it's all about mutually agreed expectations for the game.

We have a guy that runs corteaz, psyrhinos, and cheap inquisitors with fething demon allies in reserve so they can ignore the whole 12 inches. All in all he can get 30ish dice on his side before the roll, and summon enough free crap that he can end up with 3000 points or more on the field at one point in a 2k game.

Somewhat better.

"Everything is scoring" and Objective Secured on troops has been a positive change. Troops are actually quite a bit better than before, since they can lock down objectives. Lists that are light on troops can still play the scoring game.

The vehicle damage table tweak has been a positive change.

Of the many, many minor changes, the great majority have been positive (with a sprinkling of really inexplicably bad changes).

The psychic phase is poorly implemented. The dice pool system is cool (it forces the player to make choices), but the end result has been an effective nerf on how many psychic powers you can reliably manifest. The denial system means that players with huge dice pools can just totally shut down the other player's psychic phase - you need to go big or go home, which is very lame (taking just one psyker in a list for flavor is pointless). I don't think the Daemon Factory is as OP as some people think, but it is representative of how poorly thought out the psychic phase is. With a few tweaks, it could be good.

Tactical Objectives is a neat concept that is poorly implemented. The Maelstrom missions in the book are not well designed, they often end with one player running away with the game due to the luck of the draw.

Unbound is explicitly optional, which is fine. I do like that we have "permission" to build armies however we want, as along as both players agree beforehand. I was initially very negative about this change, but now I actually feel positive about it.


It basically plays like 6e, so all the fundamental problems with 6e are still present.

 Orock wrote:

 Zagman wrote:
The Psychic phase is definitely better balanced than it was in 6th. In 6th we watched people dish out buffs at 91% efficiency, now they have to devote 3-4 times the resources to do so near that level and every army has a chance, albeit a small one, to stop enemy blessings. That is huge. Even SeerStar etc have lost some effectiveness in the Psychic phase and Arnt are astringent as they were,

Yeah, GK can rack up Powerdice. Sure, but they have limited places to use them, and it still takes 3-4 Dice to cast a WC1 Power anywhere near 6th Ed Success a Rates.

Unbound Daemon armies not getting games? Why are they running Unbound? Players have a choice as to agreed army Comp, I for one won't play Unbound, if those Daemon Players want games, maybe they should file something BattleForged.m it's all about mutually agreed expectations for the game.

We have a guy that runs corteaz, psyrhinos, and cheap inquisitors with fething demon allies in reserve so they can ignore the whole 12 inches. All in all he can get 30ish dice on his side before the roll, and summon enough free crap that he can end up with 3000 points or more on the field at one point in a 2k game.

.

Ouch, fluff Rape and Unbound. I could see refusing him games for that alone. I'm still not convinced it is a game breaking build.

A. Units not on the table don't generate WC. So a large potion of those WC aren't generating T1 and possibly not T2/3 depending on reserve Rolls.

B. GK can't roll Malefic Powers, so the GK contingent is unable to Conjure at all.

C. Arriving T2, Conjuring FMC can't assault until T4.

D. Conjured units don't have Objective Secured, nor can any of his units as it's Unbound.


I guess, if he is following all of the rules for Conjuring and Summoning I just don't see how he is summoning 50% more of his army. You can check out the Limitations thread I made about Cionjuring Daemons, make sure he is playing by the rules.

I'd be curious to see his list, but I'm not seeing how it would break the game, especially against another solid list.

I think it's solved more problems than it's created overall, but the problems it has created are some doozies.

One can't really argue that the core rules have any direct influence on balance, there's nothing inherently unbalanced when the whole book is entirely faction neutral, the codexes and how they harness the core rules are the issue, and that issue remains.

Frankly I'm biased. It didn't fix assault for me, in fact it arguably made it worse, it derped up psychic phases horrifically (Pink Horrors just aren't worth anything. Daemons of Tzeentch +3 ld means nothing and the only thing horrors are good for is being psychic batteries for daemon summoning), and the FAQ are odd to no end. It improved in some ways, got worse in others.

It's still a bad game. Different but bad. On a positive, it and several other things GW has done have convinced me to expand to other wargames and, in our group, start to really just houserule the game so we can actually have fun.

Another step away from 5E and introduces more random elements into the game. The FAQs are late, shallow, and inconsistent.

No bueno. Not purchased it.