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I don't know if a thread like this has been done before (it's hard to run searches for to check since Invisibility is mentioned a billion times in here).

Anyway, what exists in the game that 'ignores' invisibility?
I don't know much so here's my sad list

- Blast weapons which target something else which scatter onto Invisible unit
- Beam weapons


So what else is out there?

Kharn.

Stomp attacks from a super-heavy/gargantuan....unless, of course, the invisible unit is another super-heavy/gargantuan.

Lady Malys and any unit she joins.

OrdoSean wrote:
Lady Malys and any unit she joins.

False. Lady Malys ignores powers that target her and her unit, not powers that target other units.

Other suggestions: Flamer templates that hit other units as well.

Hammer of Wrath, or anything else that states you get 'D6 hits' etc.

Tank Shock

Dark Eldar: Reaver Bladevane and Caltrop attacks. These attacks are not shots or templates. They are written "automatic D3 or D6 hits". The Reavers crash through enemies that they coincidentally see.

Psychic: Nova powers. All enemies in range are struck. An energy field doesn't need to see you to hit you.

Eldar: Vibro Cannons. You need to target a unit it's true but, anything in between or past (up to 36in) gets struck, too. If the invisible unit is between you and the target OR it's 5in behind a target that was like 22in away (for 27 out of 36in), they get hit, normally.

Necrons: Monolith. Doesn't it have that Gauss Arc thing that does D6 hits on every unit in 6in... or something...?

 jifel wrote:

OrdoSean wrote:
Lady Malys and any unit she joins.

False. Lady Malys ignores powers that target her and her unit, not powers that target other units.

Debatable, actually. Lady Malys does NOT ignore powers that target her and her unit. She and her unit are immune to the effect of all psychic powers. Period. (She'd still ignore Vortex weapons on subsequent turns, for example, or a Blast witchfire that scattered on to her.) Her rule never requires her to be the target. A power that affects which number she needs to hit certainly seems like it is placing an 'effect' on her, one which the Crystal Heart should enable her to ignore.

There is, however, some debate on this topic. There was a lively thread on it in YMDC at one point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RancidHate wrote:
Dark Eldar: Reaver Bladevane and Caltrop attacks. These attacks are not shots or templates. They are written "automatic D3 or D6 hits". The Reavers crash through enemies that they coincidentally can't see.

Necrons: Monolith. Doesn't it have that Gauss Arc thing that does D6 hits on every unit in 6in... or something...?

Good call on Reavers, forgot about them. Also, on Monoliths, while I don't think they get the auto hits in THIS edition, they DO have the portal up front they can suck people in without regard to visibility.

 Jimsolo wrote:

 jifel wrote:

OrdoSean wrote:
Lady Malys and any unit she joins.

False. Lady Malys ignores powers that target her and her unit, not powers that target other units.

Debatable, actually. Lady Malys does NOT ignore powers that target her and her unit. She and her unit are immune to the effect of all psychic powers. Period. (She'd still ignore Vortex weapons on subsequent turns, for example, or a Blast witchfire that scattered on to her.) Her rule never requires her to be the target. A power that affects which number she needs to hit certainly seems like it is placing an 'effect' on her, one which the Crystal Heart should enable her to ignore.

There is, however, some debate on this topic. There was a lively thread on it in YMDC at one point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RancidHate wrote:
Dark Eldar: Reaver Bladevane and Caltrop attacks. These attacks are not shots or templates. They are written "automatic D3 or D6 hits". The Reavers crash through enemies that they coincidentally can't see.

Necrons: Monolith. Doesn't it have that Gauss Arc thing that does D6 hits on every unit in 6in... or something...?

Good call on Reavers, forgot about them. Also, on Monoliths, while I don't think they get the auto hits in THIS edition, they DO have the portal up front they can suck people in without regard to visibility.

Hm, that's actually a good argument... I'll take back that "False" then. If shes immune to the effects than I might actually say she would hit them normal... Good call.

If that's true then she would have to completely ignore any conjured demons. It's unplayable.

On the same ticket are Inquisitors with Null Rods.

Death ray.

Chain Snares as well as Envenomed Blades should the invisible unit assault the vehicle.

-Matt

MasterSlowPoke wrote:If that's true then she would have to completely ignore any conjured demons. It's unplayable.

You make a good case, but I think it makes more sense to just allow Daemons to interact with her normally. Otherwise, in the interests of trying to shoehorn new rules (Daemonology) in with an old codex, you severely scale back the way the rule has been played up to this point.

I think the best way of looking at it is that once a Daemons unit is summoned on to the battlefield, to treat them as a unit, rather than an ongoing effect of a psychic power. (I think the Vortex weapon is a much different animal, and I don't think it's going to break the game significantly to continue to treat it as the ongoing effect of a psychic power.) That allows them to interact with her normally. (Although, fun fact: either way you choose to interpret the rule, an Allied Eldar psyker using the Sacrifice power while attached to her unit would not generate a wound, and would in essence summon the Daemon for free.)

curran12 wrote:On the same ticket are Inquisitors with Null Rods.

Hmmm. Possibly, but the wording is slightly different. Null Rods say that the Inquisitor cannot be affected by psychic powers. (Rather than ignoring the effects of one.) Really, the main distinction is the summoned Daemons, which could very much hit the Inquisitor, but under a strict RAW reading might not be able to hit Malys. (Although again, I don't think that's not the most sensible way to read how her rule and daemon summoning work.)

 Truth118 wrote:
Death ray.

This. Probably the best weapon at ignoring invisibility.

For Tyranids

- Mawlocs
- Psychic Scream
- Toxic Miasma
- Vector Strike
- Hammer of Wrath (anything with wings, any MC)
- Acid Blood (Pyrovore and Haruspex... giggle)

I think that the Mawloc example is particularly fluffy, because Mawlocs hunt by sensing vibration in the earth and invisible or not your footfalls still betray you to it.

The Wolf Tooth necklace hits on 3s in close combat.

Probably obvious, but anything that is already snap-shooting does not really care about invisibility and anything twin-linkd gets a decent chance to hit.

Tau's only answer is markerlights, and you first need to solve the problem of how to hit them to begin with.
Other then that, TL in mass or just guns in mass.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Probably obvious, but anything that is already snap-shooting does not really care about invisibility and anything twin-linkd gets a decent chance to hit.

Tau's only answer is markerlights, and you first need to solve the problem of how to hit them to begin with.
Other then that, TL in mass or just guns in mass.

I remember reading... somewhere... that markerlights do not improve the BS of snap shots.

Brother Michael wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Probably obvious, but anything that is already snap-shooting does not really care about invisibility and anything twin-linkd gets a decent chance to hit.

Tau's only answer is markerlights, and you first need to solve the problem of how to hit them to begin with.
Other then that, TL in mass or just guns in mass.

I remember reading... somewhere... that markerlights do not improve the BS of snap shots.

That's the exact opposite of the written rules. Markerlights explicitly can improve BS when firing Snap Shots.

Markerlights will hit on 6's like every other weapon, I think the better solution would be a riptide's ion accelerator or a hammerhead's submunition round. Anything ordinance or large blast that needs to scatter doesn't need to hit on 6's.

You still can't use template or blast weapons as a Snap Shot. Your only way of hitting an Invisible unit with a template or blast would be baiting another unit into very tight proximity with the Invisible one, targeting that one and hoping for good scatters.

Also, getting a unit into combat with the Invisible unit and them hitting that unit with Karamazov's Orbital Strike Relay (since he can target friendly units with it and it doesn't scatter) will let you rack up damage on the Invisible unit.

Hammer of Wrath is probably the most available method of getting round invisibility. Maybe a reason to take Jump troops !

MaxT wrote:
Hammer of Wrath is probably the most available method of getting round invisibility. Maybe a reason to take Jump troops !

On that note, Mandiblasters.

Necrons:
• Doomscythe's Death Ray / Sentry Pylons's Focused Death Ray
• Tesla Destructors (not so much "ignore" as "doesn't care about")
• Tesla Arc's hits
• Imotekh's Lightning strikes
• Lightning Field
• Monolith's Portal of Exile
• Mindshackle Scarabs
• HoW'ing Wraiths/Destroyers/Tomb Blades/etc.
• self destructing C'tan
• Tesseract Ark's Seismic Lash
• Night Shroud Bomber's Death Spheres? (how do bombing runs work with invisible units?)

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
You still can't use template or blast weapons as a Snap Shot. Your only way of hitting an Invisible unit with a template or blast would be baiting another unit into very tight proximity with the Invisible one, targeting that one and hoping for good scatters.

Also, getting a unit into combat with the Invisible unit and them hitting that unit with Karamazov's Orbital Strike Relay (since he can target friendly units with it and it doesn't scatter) will let you rack up damage on the Invisible unit.

Yep, that's what I was thinking as well. Grey Knight cheese is still viable.

Also, Orks in general. My all biker and DeffKopta army will be jinking a lot anyways to Twin-Linked BS 1 is no problem.

Ok let me try to collate everything that "directly" counters Invisibility (I consider Krappy Orky Shootin' and luckily scattered blasts "indirect" counters)


Anybody: Jump Troops. Hammer of Wrath

Anybody: Psychic: Nova powers. All enemies in range are struck. An energy field doesn't need to see you to hit you.

Dark Eldar: Reaver Bladevane and Caltrop attacks. These attacks are not shots or templates. They are written "automatic D3 or D6 hits". The Reavers crash through enemies that they coincidentally see.

Eldar: Vibro Cannons. You need to target a unit it's true but, anything in between or past (up to 36in) gets struck, too. If the invisible unit is between you and the target OR it's 5in behind a target that was like 22in away (for 27 out of 36in), they get hit, normally.

Eldar: Striking Scrorpion Mandiblasters. Not really a good counter but, if you can get a full squad in (or close to full) then their boatload of attacks cmbined with Mandiblasters might make a difference.

Space Wolves: Wolf Tooth Necklace... I think in close combat it lets the user always hit on 3s (makes sense, Space Wolves and their "mutation" should be able to better sense invisible units according to the fluff)

Chaos: Kharn. Always hits on 2s in melee, but if he gets 1s and his guys are near him, he gets mad at them and rage kills his some of his own guys instead.

Necrons: Monolith. Doesn't it have that Gauss Arc thing that does D6 hits on every unit in 6in... or something...?

Inquisition: Karamazov. Let own units get into melee with Invisible unit. Target own unit with no-scatter orbital blast while in melee. L. O. L.


Ok let's stockpile what we can. Of course "indirect" methods, as follows are also good;

IG: Parking Lot. Not always effective but, enough pies that smething will scatter into something.

GK, IG, Daemons and, gimped Warlock-heavy Eldar: Psychic. Just a boatload of denial dice to deny their Inviz.

Orks: Orkses got dem' numbas'. High dakka numbas' n' high hit-you numbas'.

IG: FRFSRF if they still have this...?

any others...?

i faced a Daemon player that kept casting invis on his chariot of lamesauce but also kept having it next to something that wasnt invisible. What did i do as Tau? Shot all my pi plates at the model sitting next to it and eventually killed it through collateral damage

Invis prevents blasts from targeting you, not hitting you.

Though i think he learned his lesson from that one and will keep away from other units lol.

No book on hand atm but i though Novas still "target" all units within range which you have no permission to do.

Same with reaver jet bikes as they still have to target a unit they flew over.

other than that, auto hit in combats like HOW and mana blasters
are good. Markerlights for Tau can be nice, or throw more dice at it in the psychic phase