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I recall scenarios where SMs felt fear or terror, the main one was when Saul saw Angron charge for the first time in one of the HH novels (think it was Saul Tarvitz?).
However that was against what was essentially a gene seeded "uncle", a being of pure destruction.
In the current setting of M41 would Marines feel such against Xenos races?

Leave aside game rules, obviously Marines dont have army-wide fearless rules as a game mechanic.

Would they fear an Avatar of Khaine, a Ctan, the Swarmlord?
Would a Marine if captured by the DE fear the torture and gladitorial pits?
Would they fear a psychic attack by a Farseer?
Or 50000 Orks storming their position?

Or are they gene-bred/trained to block out such thoughts and literally fight to the end? I recall in some of the HH novels loyalists being literally carved apart when incapacitated (whilst conscious) limb by limb by the word bearers and emps children, would they feel fear as the blade came down?

One word.

ATSKNF.

They are consistently referred to as 'knowing no fear', which is then happily contradicted by various Black Library authors.

The books contradict but they are not stopped or disabled by the fear.
Not fearless but overcome it.

"They shall be my finest warriors, these men who give themselves to me. Like clay I shall mould them and in the furnace of war I shall forge them. They will be of iron will and steely muscle. In great armour shall I clad them and with the mightiest guns shall they be armed. They will be untouched by plague or disease, no sickness will blight them. They will have tactics, strategies and machines such that no foe will best them in battle. They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines and they shall know no fear!" -The God Emperor of Mankind.

So its basically HH authors Vs GW codex writers?

Because as above, theres definitely contradictions.....

This is one of those things that comes doen to interpretation I think.
Personally I think they feel fear but they can ignore it.

ATSKNF is likely propaganda. There are many examples of Marines feeling fear, but not allowing themselves to be disabled by it. If they truly knew no fear then they would have no courage either, as courage is not the absence of fear, but the overcoming of it.

I imagine that marines are above feeling fear.

Fear is linked to panic, and marines do not seem to panic at all. They are logical beings and make logical decisions.

If you open fire on a person, the fear of dying is likely to cause them to hide. Whereas a marine would merely look at the situation.

"Oh look, I'm under enemy fire. It might be a good idea to get to cover. But hold on, at this range the fire will not be able to penetrate my holy armour. May as well stand here and fire back because my gun is bigger."

The only way to sufficiently answer this question is to define "fear".

Someone said (not sure who, think it was Patton) : Courage doesn't mean that one doesn't feel fear, it means thst fear is never in control of one's actions... And Space marines are perfect example of it

Yes, they can feel fear, and no, this is not just evident in Black Library.

Remember when those Space Wolves went traitor and joined Huron Blackheart to save their lives? Yeah.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
"They shall be my finest warriors, these men who give themselves to me. Like clay I shall mould them and in the furnace of war I shall forge them. They will be of iron will and steely muscle. In great armour shall I clad them and with the mightiest guns shall they be armed. They will be untouched by plague or disease, no sickness will blight them. They will have tactics, strategies and machines such that no foe will best them in battle. They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines and they shall know no fear!" -The God Emperor of Mankind.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
with the mightiest guns shall they be armed

Even by Imperial standards, shouldn't this mean that all Space Marines should have plasma guns as standard?

 TheCustomLime wrote:
They will be untouched by plague or disease, no sickness will blight them.

Nurgle disagrees.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
They will have tactics, strategies and machines such that no foe will best them in battle.

Yeah...

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
"They shall be my finest warriors, these men who give themselves to me. Like clay I shall mould them and in the furnace of war I shall forge them. They will be of iron will and steely muscle. In great armour shall I clad them and with the mightiest guns shall they be armed. They will be untouched by plague or disease, no sickness will blight them. They will have tactics, strategies and machines such that no foe will best them in battle. They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines and they shall know no fear!" -The God Emperor of Mankind.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
with the mightiest guns shall they be armed

Even by Imperial standards, shouldn't this mean that all Space Marines should have plasma guns as standard?

 TheCustomLime wrote:
They will be untouched by plague or disease, no sickness will blight them.

Nurgle disagrees.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
They will have tactics, strategies and machines such that no foe will best them in battle.

Yeah...

It is a blatant piece of Imperial propaganda and is littered with hyperbole but it sums up my feelings on the topic. Space Marines are mentally indoctrinated super soldier monks. They shouldn't feel fear under normal circumstances but I am aware that there are examples contradicting my position.

So, to answer the OP's question, Marines do know fear but it's hard to scare them.

A marine will feel fear, but all his body and mind has been conditioned to pick the "fight" response every time. He's also capable of deciding that he can't win at this time, choosing some other action in place of combat unless it's vital to take as many enemies as possible with him.

Going down in a meaningless battle against some mooks would be wasting a marine and Chapter resources, and we can't have that. And as has been mentioned marines can sometimes be swayed with the right arguments. It's unlikely but has happened.

 Ashiraya wrote:
They are consistently referred to as 'knowing no fear', which is then happily contradicted by various Black Library authors.

This.

So basically, up to you which lore you stick with.

In general I would say they don't feel fear or if there is something its a half remembered emotion that does nothing.

They are my Space Marines and they shall know no fear!" -The God Emperor of Mankind

.

The Emperor has lied in the past

Its nit that they don't feel fear, its that they don't understand what it is. They've been conditioned for upwards of 150 years in some cases to believe they "know no fear." They have 'impenetrable' armour, 'the mightiest weapons' and a force of will that cannot be broken. They have been raised for decades to fight on, fight for the Emperor, the Great Crusade, the Imperium, their brothers, their honour, their Chapter, etc...

They look at things logically and work them out and give into hatred and rage more than fear, taking down as many of the enemy as they can before succumbing.

So when he sees a Primarch, a demi-god built for war, and at that, the most fear gladiator and butcher in the Imperium, charging towards him, all of his training goes out the window because he knows there is no way he could possibly survive if he fought. So the flight reaction takes place, so the Space Marine feels fear.

What I have noticed is that authors use the fear to show just how badass or killy the enemy thing is, and always emphasises the confusion and ignorance of the feeling on behalf of the Astartes.

There is no contradiction. The ATSKNF is a propaganda boost like the U.S. Army's "We never quit." Except for when we declare victory and leave/decide our strategic assets are better used elsewhere.

 Ashiraya wrote:
They are consistently referred to as 'knowing no fear', which is then happily contradicted by various Black Library authors.

Oh? Are there any particularly blatant examples of this contradiction?

I think I recall reading one story where a Marine sort of felt fear, in that he imagined that what he was feeling might be similar to what normal humans would describe as fear, but that's about it.

 Troike wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
They are consistently referred to as 'knowing no fear', which is then happily contradicted by various Black Library authors.

Oh? Are there any particularly blatant examples of this contradiction?

I think I recall reading one story where a Marine sort of felt fear, in that he imagined that what he was feeling might be similar to what normal humans would describe as fear, but that's about it.

It's contradicted by actual codex lore as well.

Considering Huron Blackheart managed to turn Space Wolves to his cause through their fear of death, they threw themselves at his feet, prostrated themselves and begged to join him.

Just because they dont know what it is doesnt mean they dont feel it.

They do feel fear it is just they have such a sense of duty that they can overcome fear because fear is a good thing if you can control it. ATSKNF is not the absence of fear but the Marines ability to control that fear and use it to an advantage. If Space Marines were fearless than why do Chaos Space Marines run, because Chaos Space Marines no longer have that same sense of discipline or duty they are out for them selves so if things look bad they run away.

And yeah on paper Duty, Honour , Loyalty and Discipline are pretty words but when you are in the army those words some how empower you, and you are able to conquer your fears, for me I was a afraid of heights but I repelled off a repelling tower and was able to climb a 30ft net bridge even though I thought my heart was going to come out of my chest.

Except that the whole 'duty, honour and discipline' thing breaks down when viking berzerker werewolves get it, but monastic warrior-nuns with faith strong enough to kill weak daemons don't.

How has no one mentioned how the game has separate rules for Fearless and ATSKNF? That these two rules, although similar have different mechanics to them.

Miko Faith does not equal bravery there are plenty of people who have faith but are cowards even in the 40K universe. But ATSKNF is a representation of three things for Space Marines,
1) Psychological conditioning 2) Training 3) Genetic manipulation. Because I believe the hard core special forces/commando units of the Imperial Guard have the same issue as the Sisters of Battle. Also the training from the Sisters might be different where as the Space Marines may regroup and fight the Sisters may think it is strategically more viable for them to live to fight another day or leave the field of battle to regroup with a larger force and come back to finish the job. Just because sisters of battle do not have ATSKNF does them cowards it just means that they think differently also to they may have a lot of faith but they are not stupid enough to give their lives for a lost cause.

In some cases the Sisters are smarter than the many space marine chapters that got wiped out because they would not retreat and in some cases the Space Marines bravery is seen as both a blessing and a curse because as I mentioned above that bravery is the reason many chapters no longer exist.

ATSKNF - as the rules would have you believe that even when faced with overwhelming firepower, casualties, or other nastiness, marines will regroup and fight on. ASTKNF is a disingenuous title for what marines do, tactical withdraw, or maybe a retreat and regroup but marines are not fearless, they're just dedicated to the cause.

Fearless - Does not understand the concept of fear, whether it be brought on be self-preservation or mystical powers, this being simply doesn't feel it.

Alpha 1 wrote:
Miko Faith does not equal bravery there are plenty of people who have faith but are cowards even in the 40K universe. But ATSKNF is a representation of three things for Space Marines,
1) Psychological conditioning 2) Training 3) Genetic manipulation. Because I believe the hard core special forces/commando units of the Imperial Guard have the same issue as the Sisters of Battle. Also the training from the Sisters might be different where as the Space Marines may regroup and fight the Sisters may think it is strategically more viable for them to live to fight another day or leave the field of battle to regroup with a larger force and come back to finish the job. Just because sisters of battle do not have ATSKNF does them cowards it just means that they think differently also to they may have a lot of faith but they are not stupid enough to give their lives for a lost cause.

In some cases the Sisters are smarter than the many space marine chapters that got wiped out because they would not retreat and in some cases the Space Marines bravery is seen as both a blessing and a curse because as I mentioned above that bravery is the reason many chapters no longer exist.

Course it means that Sisters suddenly run when daemons fear afflicts them, despite it doing nothing to space marines...

It is why Fear is one of the most worthless rule on tabletop after-all.

In my eyes this is an easy one. Obviously they do feel fear, because they are quasi-human, and we all do.

But they are so highly trained, that they can operate despite it. This does not contradict any of the lore to my knowledge.

Even when Curze is killing lowly Marines, and the writer states that they feel fear, it is a different kind of cold, controlled fear, because they don't freeze, or drop to their knees and beg, they try to kill the fether. Same goes for any of the numerous instances of rampaging Primarchs punching Space Marines heads off. Clearly they would feel awe and fear fighting a Primarch, but they don't gak themselves and freeze, they do their best to kill the fether regardless, and that is both knowing fear, and conquering it.

So they do, and they don't.

If that is an unsatisfactory explanation, how about a personal tale.

I did a bungee jump in Bavaria once, apparently it is the second highest one in Europe. It was really honking, off a big feth off bridge with rocks at the bottom, from the top it looked ominous and more than a little scary. My mate was so scared he was physically sweating and shaking all the way to the edge of the bridge we were jumping off. He got to the line, and when he tried to leap off at the count of three, his knees sort of.. wobbled and buckled at number two, and he just sort of.. fell off the fether.

We all laughed hysterically, and it was a grand day. I have never been scared of heights, so I just did what I knew worked, sucked in a deep breath, didnt focus on the deck, and jumped off the bloody thing. Pride was always a whip to me, and I didn't want to look like a pansy.

Who is brave? A bloke who is lucky enough not to mind heights, or a man who feels absolute bowel loosening terror, and STILL cracks on and flings himself off the fether? Personally, I think you have to be genuinely scared of something to really "Know No fear" but I suppose everybody feels differently.

Ultimately, whether they feel it or not, they conquer it, and so deserve credit either way.

Even when Curze is killing lowly Marines, they feel fear, but they don't freeze, or drop to their knees and beg, they try to kill the fether. Same goes for any of the numerous instances of rampaging Primarchs punching Space Marines heads off.

Except we DO have instances of this, Fear of Death from Typhus Plague converted many a Space Marine to Nurgle, And Space Wolves turning on their brothers and then begging before Huron Blackheart, who has many other instances of them begging to join him.