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So, how versatile are Jump Packs anyway? Are they more or less just Grav Chutes deluxe that allow you to jump a huge distance or are you actually able to fly? If so, how far?

Not fly-fly, but you can get airborne over short distances, and it does provide vertical lift. You could, for example, "jump" from the ground to the top of a building, or move laterally across terrain at high speed.

Jump Packs are... hm, the best analogy I can think of is they're like the Roc's Feather in Legend of Zelda. It provides enough thrust to get you off the ground and hurtling through the air, but it can't provide the sort of sustained thrust required for true flight. Unless you're C.S. Goto, anyway. Then it lets you win aerial duels with flying bio-titans.

You can fly with them, yes. Going by FFG (which is sensible in this case), you can make an infinite amount of "short jumps" which are doubling you movement and ignoring terrain. Or you can act as a flyer for something like ten or twelve minutes.

But FFG has space magic, and terrible balance issues. Which tells you its a 40K game.

 Psienesis wrote:
But FFG has space magic, and terrible balance issues. Which tells you its a 40K game.

But it's line in how jump packs are often described in the fluff, like the flying duel between the Bleeding Eyes and the Swooping Hawks of Ulthwe.

In the book 'Faith & Fire', it is described how the order's seraphim engage helicopters at close quarters.

I believe there's some inconsistency in the fluff: some say short jumps, some say prolonged flight.

Actually Deathwatch allows a marine to fly for *ONE* minute at a speed of twelve (followed by a minute to cool down), which equals a total range of about 286 metres ~ enough to safely get to the top of an apartment or office building from the other side of the street. Prolonged flight it is not.

In the book 'Faith & Fire', it is described how the order's seraphim engage helicopters at close quarters.

Yes but the intent there is to get to the ship, disable it (or its pilot), and then free-fall until engaging the pack once more to land safely.

Actually Deathwatch allows a marine to fly for *ONE* minute at a speed of twelve, which equals a total range of about 286 metres ~ enough to safely get to the top of an apartment or office building from the other side of the street. Prolonged flight it is not.

Bit farther than that, since a minute is 10 rounds of movement, but otherwise correct, it's a very short-term "flight", so only by the loosest of definitions is it actually flying.

It's a "Jump Pack". It basically just lets you bunny-hop long distances pretty fast. It seems like a bad example but just look to the Dawn of War games. It's a single, long jump with a cooldown used to maneuver closer to the enemy or away from the enemy, it's more of a tactical thing to provide flexibility.

My favourite idea of mine was Bolter Marines with Jump Packs. They're way more tactical than actual Tactical Marines.

I honestly do not understand why they aren't standard issue to all non-Dev marines. A Tactical Squad would be far more tactical if it could jump to/from cover/elevations/etc to more-easily establish tactical control of the battlefield.

IIRC pre-heresy jump-packs could fly nearly indefinitely, but jump packs in the 41st millennium only allow you to make a few huge jumps across the battlefield, as power armour is too heavy to maintain flight for it.

That doesnt make a lot of sense, as HH-era PA was not significantly lighter than M41 PA... Inquisitor Sherlock Obi-Wan Clouseau's power-armor bodyglove aside, of course.

 Psienesis wrote:
I honestly do not understand why they aren't standard issue to all non-Dev marines. A Tactical Squad would be far more tactical if it could jump to/from cover/elevations/etc to more-easily establish tactical control of the battlefield.

There is a chapter, I forget the name, that has Jump Pack Devestators.

And, I imagine it's something to do with the Codex Astartes, similar to the fact that Tactical squads can't take 2 special weapons..

 Psienesis wrote:
That doesnt make a lot of sense, as HH-era PA was not significantly lighter than M41 PA... Inquisitor Sherlock Obi-Wan Clouseau's power-armor bodyglove aside, of course.

I think it's that the jump packs were much more powerful during the great crusade, compared the the M41 jump-pack. Although the MK3 armour couldn't be used with jump packs due to its weight.

The Raptor Cult IA article said "These earlier forms of jump pack were rather more sophisticated and efficient than the ones commonly used by the Imperium in the 41st millennium, being considerably lighter and less bulky, while at the same time having a higher thrust to mass ratio which allowed slightly longer and higher jumps to be performed."

... that's still not really flying-flying.

No, I do not think true flight is possible. But they can jump pretty far.

 Psienesis wrote:
I honestly do not understand why they aren't standard issue to all non-Dev marines. A Tactical Squad would be far more tactical if it could jump to/from cover/elevations/etc to more-easily establish tactical control of the battlefield.

I think it's because jump packs are fairly rare. although yeah if tatical squads had jump packs they'd be AMAZING

BrianDavion wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
I honestly do not understand why they aren't standard issue to all non-Dev marines. A Tactical Squad would be far more tactical if it could jump to/from cover/elevations/etc to more-easily establish tactical control of the battlefield.

I think it's because jump packs are fairly rare. although yeah if tatical squads had jump packs they'd be AMAZING

And because they wouldnt be able to take rhinos as Dedicated transports :p

Well, just ask yourself this: If you were standing still, and you engaged a jump pack, what would happen?

If the answer is "you would rise into the air", then yes, jump packs make you fly. They provide enough lift to counter gravity on their own.

If the answer is "nothing", then no, you don't fly with jump packs. they don't produce enough thrust to counter gravity on their own. At the best, they're just a complicated version of a parachute.

They will slow you down a bit as you fall, and even let you jump a little bit higher than normal (though not by very much - easing the force of gravity doesn't make your legs any stronger), but that's about it. It wouldn't even help your speed very much as it produces less than 9.8 m/s worth of thrust which is only 20 miles per hour, at absolute best. Basically, it lets you run without breaking a sweat, but it's not any more powerful than that.

Which seems wrong on every level. Of course a jump pack would boost you off the ground. Of course they would make it so that you move more than just a little faster than if you ran. In-game, if you were allowed to use a jump pack to move and then "run", you'd go 24", which is much faster than the 7-12" you get with actual running. Clearly they provide you with enough thrust do zoom about a bit, rather than merely enter a controlled glide.

And if they're any more powerful than that, that means you can fly with a jump pack. End of.

Of course, for how long...

 Ailaros wrote:
Well, just ask yourself this: If you were standing still, and you engaged a jump pack, what would happen?

If the answer is "you would rise into the air", then yes, jump packs make you fly. They provide enough lift to counter gravity on their own.

If the answer is "nothing", then no, you don't fly with jump packs. they don't produce enough thrust to counter gravity on their own. At the best, they're just a complicated version of a parachute.

They will slow you down a bit as you fall, and even let you jump a little bit higher than normal (though not by very much - easing the force of gravity doesn't make your legs any stronger), but that's about it. It wouldn't even help your speed very much as it produces less than 9.8 m/s worth of thrust which is only 20 miles per hour, at absolute best. Basically, it lets you run without breaking a sweat, but it's not any more powerful than that.

Which seems wrong on every level. Of course a jump pack would boost you off the ground. Of course they would make it so that you move more than just a little faster than if you ran. In-game, if you were allowed to use a jump pack to move and then "run", you'd go 24", which is much faster than the 7-12" you get with actual running. Clearly they provide you with enough thrust do zoom about a bit, rather than merely enter a controlled glide.

And if they're any more powerful than that, that means you can fly with a jump pack. End of.

Of course, for how long...

Going by the munitorium, it has something like an hour of fuel before it runs dry. Funnily enough, in GW's complete inability to comprehend science, it also states that it siphons additional power from the backpack, but the backpack isn't enough. ....Except backpacks are powered by nuclear fusion or other alien esoteric sources of power, yet this is somehow not capable of lifting a space marine off the ground without prometheium.

You'd think GW would just do a basic google search or something when writing fluff.

Storm boyz can fly . You can see them flying in the game space marines

 Metaljunx wrote:
Storm boyz can fly . You can see them flying in the game space marines

Again, something that is certainly not a terrible example of the 40K universe and is completely consistent!

 Psienesis wrote:
I honestly do not understand why they aren't standard issue to all non-Dev marines. A Tactical Squad would be far more tactical if it could jump to/from cover/elevations/etc to more-easily establish tactical control of the battlefield.

cost

why isnt every marine given a plasma gun and artifiser armor?


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 Metaljunx wrote:
Storm boyz can fly . You can see them flying in the game space marines

so can scourges and swooping hawks. None of them use space marine jump packs though.


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 Ailaros wrote:
Well, just ask yourself this: If you were standing still, and you engaged a jump pack, what would happen?
If the answer is "you would rise into the air", then yes, jump packs make you fly. They provide enough lift to counter gravity on their own.

There is a bonus you get when you are near the ground as the air being pushed down hits the large flat ground and bounces back at you. It's called ground effect in aerodynamics and it makes it much easier for helicopters and aircraft to fly when they are very close to the ground.

Search for ekranoplanes to get some idea

 Ailaros wrote:

Of course, for how long...

Some engines can only work for a certain length of time before they must shut down to avoid overheating/run out of fuel. How long a jump pack can maintain thrust is another issue.

So if it´s so hard to propel a Marine into the air, are they able to jump at all?

 tommse wrote:
So if it´s so hard to propel a Marine into the air, are they able to jump at all?

Backflipping Goto Terminators beg to differ.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 tommse wrote:
So if it´s so hard to propel a Marine into the air, are they able to jump at all?

Backflipping Goto Terminators beg to differ.

They have power assisted movement. Except for restrictions in movement created by the plates they have a full range of motion and the strength to run and jump and sing and play and grind xeno faces into the dust.

Except it's incredible for someone to run in Terminator armour.

 Psienesis wrote:
I honestly do not understand why they aren't standard issue to all non-Dev marines. A Tactical Squad would be far more tactical if it could jump to/from cover/elevations/etc to more-easily establish tactical control of the battlefield.

I believe the resources required to get that many jump packs would be far to inconvenient. I agree with you, but it would be to much of a hazard.


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For anyone who has played Spacemarine should know how jump packs work. They really are a "jump" pack.