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Which the Scottish Government described as " the authoritative publication on Scotland’s public finances"? Yes.
So, given that you apparently agree that it is riven with flaws then how can Scotland have a deficit of "10% of GDP"?
There are no firm figures on Scotland's GDP.
And it's things like that that will prevent Scotland from being able to join the EU because you need at least two years with a stable economy and proof of it.
DS:90-S+G+++M++B-IPw40k03+D+A++/fWD-R++T(T)DM+ Warmachine MKIII record 39W/0D/6L
Which the Scottish Government described as " the authoritative publication on Scotland’s public finances"? Yes.
So, given that you apparently agree that it is riven with flaws then how can Scotland have a deficit of "10% of GDP"?
There are no firm figures on Scotland's GDP.
Riven with flaws?
The deficit figure of £15bn is 95% accurate. That is coming from the Chief Statistician of the Scottish Government and the office of the Scot Gov's Chief Economic Advisor.
To be honest though Puffin, if you're going down the line of deficit denial, GERS denial and the "Westminster rigged data" line of your man Richard Murphy, then I'm not going to waste my time trying to debate with you.
All the best.
Good luck with your flags... they'll see you right
Yes, because its all based on estimates, or even estimates of estimates. There probably is a deficit, nearly every country runs a deficit after all, but is it 10% of GDP? No one knows.
Absolutely critically however it bears no real relationship to the finances of an independent Scotland.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/14 19:46:08
The deficit figure of £15bn is 95% accurate. That is coming from the Chief Statistician of the Scottish Government and the office of the Scot Gov's Chief Economic Advisor.
To be honest though Puffin, if you're going down the line of deficit denial, GERS denial and the "Westminster rigged data" line of your man Richard Murphy, then I'm not going to waste my time trying to debate with you.
All the best.
Good luck with your flags... they'll see you right
This is all a bit arbitrary. There will be areas that Scotland still cannot touch and will be able to determine for themselves when independent. At the moment they do have their hand tied behind their back in some areas. A 10% deficit could easily be remediated by making changes. But then that is what independence is about, being able to make those decisions for yourself as a country, rightly or wrongly.
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
North sea oil output last I saw was on a down curve not up.
Thr oil makes alot of money sure but as prices shown its a very unstable thing to base one of your key financial planks on.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
Defense is an easy one. There is also the question of exactly how much debt, and more importantly the interest on that debt, which would be passed on from the UK.
Approximately 20% of Scotland's budget is reserved by Westminster, much of which is taken up by pension provision, but there would still be a lot of unnecessary expenditure there.
A 10% deficit could easily be remediated by making changes.
Easily? Ok, I'll bite. What changes?
Where could the annual ~£15bn gap be made up?
Where do the additional taxes come from?
Where will the spending cuts be made?
Just a few quick easy examples.
I don't think it matters.
It's perfectly obvious that Brexit occurred because enough people believed the Leave bull gak (£50 million a day, etc.) and we're continuing down that pass because WILL OF THE BRITISH PEOPLE!!
If the Scots believe they can do better by themselves, they will vote for it whatever the apparent economic realities of the situation.
Personally, I couldn't give a damn about North Sea Oil, GERS, deficets, budget this, surplus that, NATO, EU membership, the price of irn-bru or any other damn economic reason against Scottish Independence.
I care not for bar graphs or pie charts.
Even if independence resulted in Scotland being the poorest nation on God's earth, I'd vote for it any day of the week for as long as I live.
There are some things in life more important than the coins in your pocket...
Freedom is the reason I voted for Brexit, and it's the reason I'll vote for Scottish independence.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Aye. About time of first prices where calulated and incomes off thr time when it was very high per barrel.
Now that prices has changed alot and ao must the maths.
Oil is not thr magic solution. Ita good, but its too variable to truely rely on.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Personally, I couldn't give a damn about North Sea Oil, GERS, deficets, budget this, surplus that, NATO, EU membership, the price of irn-bru or any other damn economic reason against Scottish Independence.
I care not for bar graphs or pie charts.
Even if independence resulted in Scotland being the poorest nation on God's earth, I'd vote for it any day of the week for as long as I live.
There are some things in life more important than the coins in your pocket...
Freedom is the reason I voted for Brexit, and it's the reason I'll vote for Scottish independence.
The exact same reason why I voted for Brexit. I don't want you to split from the UK but I respect your reason for doing so.
What freedoms do you guys think Brexit will bring?
Even if I think purely about freedom rather than the economic side, I see only negatives, particularly when it comes to the right to live and work where you choose.
I guess there's the freedom for your boss to ignore all that pesky European legislation that guarantees you a fair and safe workplace?
The photo opportunities of her shaking hands with such senior dignitaries was supposed to create an impression that Ms Sturgeon was carving out her own foreign policy but she was soon given a harsh lesson on where the real power lies in Europe.
Speaking the same day not far away, following a European Council meeting in Brussels, Francois Hollande, the French President, ruled out any negotiations with Scotland and made clear talks would only take place with the UK.
France won't negotiate with the SNP...
Mariano Rajoy, the Spanish Prime Minister, went even further by stating unequivocally that “if the United Kingdom leaves…Scotland leaves too.” Germany, Denmark and the Czech Republic also made clear they considered Scotland’s situation to be an “internal” British issue.
An EU leader stating unequivocally that Scotland cannot inherit the UK's EU membership...
Ms Sturgeon then hosted a summit of EU consuls-general at Bute House, her official residence in Edinburgh where she staged her referendum press conference on Monday. The Scottish Government issued a photograph of all the attendees posing together in the drawing room.
But it later emerged that some of the attendees have honorary titles, with little power or influence and no consular function. Iain Lawson, the honorary consul for Estonia, is apest controller from Paisley whose link with the Baltic state began when he visited Tallinn with the Tartan Army in the 1990s. Other attendees included British lawyers and a physiotherapist.
Disrespected by EU member states...
Michael Russell, her Brexit Minister, then made a major mistake in November after he was caught making inaccurate claims to Brussels diplomats that five million Scots had voted Remain in the referendum and that the only MSPs to vote for Brexit were four Tories.
More seriously, he also indicated that the Scottish government was in talks with the Spanish over a special Brexit deal despite them being vigorously opposed to setting such a precedent given their own problems with separatist movements.
His comments reached the ears of Alfonso Dastis, the Spanish Foreign Affairs Minister, and Esteban Gonzalez Pons, who leads the Spanish delegation of MEPs in the European Parliament’s largest political grouping, and their retribution was swift and harsh.
Mr Gonzalez Pons agreed to an interview with this newspaper in which he made clear that Spain would reject any attempt by Ms Sturgeon to stay in the EU single market if the rest of the UK comes out.
Lying about being in talks for a "special deal"...And Pons indicating that Spain will block special treatment for Scotland re the single market.
In the same month, Alex Salmond held talks in Switzerland about Scotland becoming a member of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA), the four members of which also get access to the EU single market.
Monica Maeland, Norway’s trade minister, told the meeting that Scottish membership was not possible because it is not a sovereign state and advised Scotland to “talk to the government in the UK about these matters.”
Sturgeon is getting ahead of herself...
And yet, despite all this, people in this thread believe Scottish membership of the EU will be an easy formality and can even be achieved in an unbroken transition with Scotland inheriting the UK's membership. Don't kid yourself. Scotland's Independence and application to join the EU will be as difficult as the UK's exit.
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True. And granted already being law and such compliment might make life easier I regard to timeline.
However yeah Scotland be placing membership as new country.
The rebates etc are non transferable, and that the EU can make it easy or hard as they please.
But for thing to make sense any formal process could only begin post Brexit, and post Indyref 2.
They could make feelers but not place there formal application.b
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
And yet, despite all this, people in this thread believe Scottish membership of the EU will be an easy formality and can even be achieved in an unbroken transition with Scotland inheriting the UK's membership.
The former is a certainty (in so far as anything is certain in politics) the latter was never going to happen.
The EU as an institution will never negotiate nor offer anything to Scotland for the simple reason that it is still part of the UK; that's obvious but it means very little. There will be a period of transition when Scotland is out of the EU, but it probably won't be for long.
Maybe the SNP should down play the EU membership bit, and focus on how Scotland is ruled by Tories, and will remain so as long as they're in a union with the UK?
It's obvious that the political outlook of the Scottish is at variance with the rest of the UK, and Westminster does not represent them well. For that matter, Westminster does a poor job of representing anything outside of London and the south east. The SNP he a good chance to say, look at what happens when we trust Westminster, they're not working for Scottish interests, they're only interested in pandering to middle England, and pensioners.
They've got plenty of evidence, and already have the risk takers on board, they just need to convince the more cautious that they'll be safer, and not much worse off under independence.
The better together team have virtually nobody, except Ruth Davidson, who has any credibility. That's probably why they're going to capitalise on it now, and create as much disruption as possible until May gives them the referendum they want.
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
People have often asked me why I support Brexit, but back Scottish Indy, given that the SNP are pro-EU.
The answer to that is simple: I'm a democrat.
I voted to leave the EU because I believe that the people of these isles should be the final authority on matters affecting these isles, and ultimately, the people of Scotland should be the final authority on matters affecting Scotland.
There are 5 million people in Scotland. If every man, woman and child voted Remain, Or Leave, or voted Tory or Labour, or whatever, it makes no difference what so ever because elections are decided in England. I cannot tolerate that democratic deficet for a second.
In the last 100 years, Scottish votes have only tipped the balance twice at General Elections one way or another...
As I've said numerous times, it's not England's fault that it's 85% of the UK, but Westminster is not interested in further devolution, or Lords reform, or even federalism. Fair enough, but I'm not hanging around for years on the promise of we might get some change...
People often say but Democrat California has to put up with Republican Presidents, which is true, but California has vast powers that are denied to Scotland. That's the difference.
If I live in an indy Scotland and the nation votes for EU membership or a Tory government, I wouldn't be happy, but I'd accept that as the will of the Scottish people. I'm a democrat.
But never in a million years will I accept Scotland's decisions being decided for it because of what voters in England want...
And that's not a slur towards England or Wales, or NI. It's merely a refusal to accept the democratic deficet that we have...
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
I'm a Scot, but I don't live there, and haven't since I was 11 years old.
But Scotland has a very different political demograph to Sarf East Engerlund - anyone can see that. It's as plain as the nose on your face.
Scotland also has a very different business portfolio - lots of high end Tourism (look up Shooting Holidays. JEEBUS!), good chunk of Bluechip, Oil (when it's worth something) etc. Westminster isn't geared toward looking after that sort of economy - as DINLT said, that's not England's fault for being the bigger partner.
But to be dragged out of the EU by England, when a far larger majority of Scots want to remain? To be tied to insane Westminster cost cutting at the risk of the economy? No ta.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Plans to increase National Insurance levels for self-employed people - announced in the Budget last week - have been dropped.
Chancellor Philip Hammond has said the government will not proceed with the increases which were criticised for breaking a 2015 manifesto pledge.
In a letter to Tory MPs, he said: "There will be no increases in... rates in this Parliament."
Mr Hammond will explain the U-turn in a Commons statement later.
..so..that's pretty much the entire budget collapsing then.
...can you imagine if we had an effective opposition ?
..that's how many Govt. u-turns we've seen now ?
-- TBF that's not always a bad thing
On a brighter note this has been doing the rounds today :
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/03/15 13:25:17
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
The problem of the U-turn goes far deeper than National Insurance contributions, because from where I'm standing, it seems as though the government rolled up the white flag at the first hint of opposition from the Mail/Sun/Express.
We can't go into Brexit negotiations with a government that is beholden to the opinions of right-wing newspapers.
That is a recipe for disaster
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Future War Cultist wrote: Well, May and Hammond have lost all credibility in my eyes. Like Cameron and Osborne before them they're nothing but the best of a gak situation.
And when you think about it, it reflects badly on British democracy if that's the best we can come up with...
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
We didn't come up with May and Hammond though, I don't recall voting for either of them in a General Election, or (if I was a conservative party member) in the conservative election.
Mozzyfuzzy wrote: We didn't come up with May and Hammond though, I don't recall voting for either of them in a General Election, or (if I was a conservative party member) in the conservative election.
Yeah, it was a sham of a leadership election last year, which makes it even more ironic that May is lecturing Sturgeon on mandates.
Yes, we live in a parliamentary system, but the Scottish parliament also has the parliamentary system, and a majority (SNP + Greens) support independence.
Another fact that passed May by the other day.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
1. We (the general public) don't elect Prime Ministers, we elect MP's. Theresa May is the elected MP for her constituency.
2. Its not her fault that she was not elected by the members of her party, all her opponents withdrew and so she won by default.
The debacle of appealing the Gina Miller court case, Sturgeon catching them flat-footed, Hinckley Point, and now this U-Turn after rumbles of discontent from a few backbench rebels and the right-wing rags...
I think the Tory government is out of its depth, and the Brexit negotiations could go badly with these misfits at the wheel.
From what I've heard, the rest of Europe thinks we're taking the when we send Bojo to any European capital.
1. We (the general public) don't elect Prime Ministers, we elect MP's. Theresa May is the elected MP for her constituency.
2. Its not her fault that she was not elected by the members of her party, all her opponents withdrew and so she won by default.
She's still gak though.
If you read Tim Shipman's Brexit book, almost everybody was scathing of May, because she was never there. Not for nothing was she nick-named the submarine.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/15 16:50:14
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Angels Amaranthine - growing slowly
Currently 200pts 
when we send Bojo to any European capital.