Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Given the recent terminator points cost drop in BOTH the space wolves and grey knight codexes, I'm already nerdraging a bit as my september 13 space marines hardback codex suddenly starts to already feel old and outdated.

Are the SW and GK termie points cost drops merely due to them coming with AP3 low strength cc-weapons compared to the stock powerfist + stormbolter terminator, or do you think GW is really shifting toward an actual points drop for all termies?

I'm still sticking to the former theory, as kitting out SW termies with TH/SS and giving GK termies a DH brings both of them roughly to the same level of a SM termie with TH/SS



as a sidenote, I think termies that are equipped with frags actually do better against MEQ when they are armed with swords than when they are armed with fists, because striking at the same time is better than striking last and only having a 5+ inv. to save you from any AP2 weapons at initiative

Im hopping that they are going for a points shift as they might realized they arnt that hot.

We will only see once BA comes out

 Sir Arun wrote:
Given the recent terminator points cost drop in BOTH the space wolves and grey knight codexes, I'm already nerdraging a bit as my september 13 space marines hardback codex suddenly starts to already feel old and outdated.

Are the SW and GK termie points cost drops merely due to them coming with AP3 low strength cc-weapons compared to the stock powerfist + stormbolter terminator, or do you think GW is really shifting toward an actual points drop for all termies?

I'm still sticking to the former theory, as kitting out SW termies with TH/SS and giving GK termies a DH brings both of them roughly to the same level of a SM termie with TH/SS



as a sidenote, I think termies that are equipped with frags actually do better against MEQ when they are armed with swords than when they are armed with fists, because striking at the same time is better than striking last and only having a 5+ inv. to save you from any AP2 weapons at initiative

Its because of their wargear. Power Weapons are cheaper that power fists.

 Sir Arun wrote:
Given the recent terminator points cost drop in BOTH the space wolves and grey knight codexes, I'm already nerdraging a bit as my september 13 space marines hardback codex suddenly starts to already feel old and outdated.

Are the SW and GK termie points cost drops merely due to them coming with AP3 low strength cc-weapons compared to the stock powerfist + stormbolter terminator, or do you think GW is really shifting toward an actual points drop for all termies?

I'm still sticking to the former theory, as kitting out SW termies with TH/SS and giving GK termies a DH brings both of them roughly to the same level of a SM termie with TH/SS



as a sidenote, I think termies that are equipped with frags actually do better against MEQ when they are armed with swords than when they are armed with fists, because striking at the same time is better than striking last and only having a 5+ inv. to save you from any AP2 weapons at initiative

I'd assume they're bringing them in line with CSM termi's which lack the powerfist. SW termi's were pretty close in the last book, GK's dropping now that they no longer are equipped with AP2 weapons (and have largely had their bonuses toned down) seems appropriate.

They have done errata for point costs before (most recently Hellbrutes AFAIK) so maybe once they start doing FAQs for 7th you'll see something. At least chaos terminators can take marks to get a little bit more durability. It's kinda harsh when everyone and their grandma has AP2 these days.

Munga wrote:
They have done errata for point costs before (most recently Hellbrutes AFAIK) so maybe once they start doing FAQs for 7th you'll see something. At least chaos terminators can take marks to get a little bit more durability. It's kinda harsh when everyone and their grandma has AP2 these days.

They had a welcoming party where everyone got an AP2 fruit basket.

Depends on what you mean by points drop from a GK Terminator perspective.

Yes the baseline cost went down, but if you equip each termie with weapons that would make them effective against other Termies (daemon hammer) the points went up over last book by 3pts per model.

What this did was create a new category for termies in their list of game roles: MEQ hunters. Sure they could do that before, but now it's more cost effective.

So to me the points break down per job looks like this:

33pts: MEQ Hunters
43pts (Daemon Hammer): TEQ/MC/Vehicle Hunters

On a side note, this also makes MegNobz finally look good in comparison, seeing as they didn't get a price drop over last book.

These are just my thoughts

Its actually 30 points - bare basic MEQ hunters with 2+/5++ (Chaos marines)
For 33 points you get BIG benefits - either PML, ATSKNF and NFS, or ATSKNF, AS (marginal) and CA (huge esp given no Ld test any longer)

Its much more rational. Based on this codex termies get a slight discount, possibly for loss of concussive and force on a NFHammer, with PF / SB termies.

 jreilly89 wrote:

Munga wrote:
They have done errata for point costs before (most recently Hellbrutes AFAIK) so maybe once they start doing FAQs for 7th you'll see something. At least chaos terminators can take marks to get a little bit more durability. It's kinda harsh when everyone and their grandma has AP2 these days.

They had a welcoming party where everyone got an AP2 fruit basket.

They really did. Sure, termies have an invulnerable save, but I'm a chaos player and I can get those from tzeentch on regular marines if I want that. The only thing termies bring to the table at this point are bigger guns, and once again, as CSM you don't have access to all the gear that loyalists have, so they're really kinda meh. There's not a whole lot fighting for that elite slot, and that's pretty much the only benefit for me. Hell, Chosen really can be just as big a threat what with five models carrying plasmas and power weapons. Terminator armor is just not that great. Maybe if they could charge after they deep strike or something, but hell they can't even sweeping advance, so even if you get them in to where they need to be, regular marines will break off, regroup, and shoot you to death the next shooting phase anyway.

Munga wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Munga wrote:
They have done errata for point costs before (most recently Hellbrutes AFAIK) so maybe once they start doing FAQs for 7th you'll see something. At least chaos terminators can take marks to get a little bit more durability. It's kinda harsh when everyone and their grandma has AP2 these days.

They had a welcoming party where everyone got an AP2 fruit basket.

They really did. Sure, termies have an invulnerable save, but I'm a chaos player and I can get those from tzeentch on regular marines if I want that. The only thing termies bring to the table at this point are bigger guns, and once again, as CSM you don't have access to all the gear that loyalists have, so they're really kinda meh. There's not a whole lot fighting for that elite slot, and that's pretty much the only benefit for me. Hell, Chosen really can be just as big a threat what with five models carrying plasmas and power weapons. Terminator armor is just not that great. Maybe if they could charge after they deep strike or something, but hell they can't even sweeping advance, so even if you get them in to where they need to be, regular marines will break off, regroup, and shoot you to death the next shooting phase anyway.

Yep. I would love the charge after deepstrike. Yeah, DW termies have the Twin-linked on turn they arrive and automatic arrival with scatter T1 or T2 (your choice), but they probably won't make it past the next turn.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Its actually 30 points - bare basic MEQ hunters with 2+/5++ (Chaos marines)
For 33 points you get BIG benefits - either PML, ATSKNF and NFS, or ATSKNF, AS (marginal) and CA (huge esp given no Ld test any longer)

Its much more rational. Based on this codex termies get a slight discount, possibly for loss of concussive and force on a NFHammer, with PF / SB termies.

arent CSM terminators 31 points per model, with the first 3 being 90 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Munga wrote:
They have done errata for point costs before (most recently Hellbrutes AFAIK) so maybe once they start doing FAQs for 7th you'll see something. At least chaos terminators can take marks to get a little bit more durability. It's kinda harsh when everyone and their grandma has AP2 these days.

Marks do not come close to making up for ATSKNF

CSM are 31 per termi, 33 for the champion, so 95 for the squad minimum of 3. Nothing is quite as harsh as getting termis swept. Or the even worse option of paying out the nose for a fearless upgrade that will probably die before you need it most.
Considering how CSM sets of TDA armor are obtained in the fluff, they really should be worked into something a bit more elite-y

Space wolf Terminators dident drop in points cost at all. They cost exactly the same now with no added extras, As they did in the previous codex.

Erm, they have dropped in points for TH/SS. They used to cost 63 points.

 jreilly89 wrote:

Yep. I would love the charge after deepstrike. Yeah, DW termies have the Twin-linked on turn they arrive and automatic arrival with scatter T1 or T2 (your choice), but they probably won't make it past the next turn.

No they don't. And their 'awesome' abilities up their cost to 44 points...

They DO have TL and DO have DWE assault, so not sure what youre after...

They also have fearless, hence an upping in points.

SW terminators themselves didn't drop in price, but nearly all of their war gear is cheaper now. TH/SS is much cheaper, cyclone missile launcher is 5 points cheaper, pair of wolf claws is cheaper, etc.

Toofast wrote:
SW terminators themselves didn't drop in price, but nearly all of their war gear is cheaper now. TH/SS is much cheaper, cyclone missile launcher is 5 points cheaper, pair of wolf claws is cheaper, etc.

Which is fair enough because with upgrades they were grossly overcosted before.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
They DO have TL and DO have DWE assault, so not sure what youre after...

They also have fearless, hence an upping in points.

What I am after for is that they are hugely overpriced. The abilities don't come close counterbalancing to how few bodies and little firepower Deathwing has.
Also, the sergeants can't change their wargear, which is hella-annoying as Power sword is a waste of a Terminator.

'Sanguinary Guard are over costed'
'No they aren't - they are terminators who swap their invuln for a jump-pa..' BLAM!
Forgetting the fact that they have to pay extra for powerfist, the main reason this counter argument fails is because it fails to take into account the fact that terminators are so daftly overcosted (plus the fact that with all the ap2, invulns help a lot).
I would love terminators to have a points reduction, not just to make my terminators are more cost effective, but also so people can't say Sang Guard are costed appropriately.

 jreilly89 wrote:

Munga wrote:
They have done errata for point costs before (most recently Hellbrutes AFAIK) so maybe once they start doing FAQs for 7th you'll see something. At least chaos terminators can take marks to get a little bit more durability. It's kinda harsh when everyone and their grandma has AP2 these days.

They had a welcoming party where everyone got an AP2 fruit basket.

Waiting on Necrons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Terminators can get cheaper when my Lychguard get cheaper/better.