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Made in gb
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader




CaptainO wrote:
The vigalus artillery special detachment fire twice strat is awesome with a catachan basilisk and yarrick nearby. Took out a squad of 5+ dark reapers in a turn even with - 1 to hit.

Im playing an itc tournament tomorrow and my first opponent is running nothing but 3 x great brass scorpions of khorne. Ill be combining that strat with vengeance for cadia. Any other tips for taking on 3 cc based super heavies who can fire out of cc are appreciated.


Shadowsword.

Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Running into a shadowsword would be a hilariously bad matchup for scorpion guy
   
Made in fr
Boosting Space Marine Biker





Paris

Hey all
I am curious as to how you all balance the ratio of order givers to order receivers in your army? My group normally play 1000pts games so rule of two applies. Up until recently I have been trying to have a 1 to 1 ratio but this is probably a little too much. What do the dakkanoughts think?

Vim

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 vim_the_good wrote:
Hey all
I am curious as to how you all balance the ratio of order givers to order receivers in your army? My group normally play 1000pts games so rule of two applies. Up until recently I have been trying to have a 1 to 1 ratio but this is probably a little too much. What do the dakkanoughts think?

Vim


Run it fluffy! One officer per company, one junior per platoon. Job done.

Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. 
   
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Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






 vim_the_good wrote:
Hey all
I am curious as to how you all balance the ratio of order givers to order receivers in your army? My group normally play 1000pts games so rule of two applies. Up until recently I have been trying to have a 1 to 1 ratio but this is probably a little too much. What do the dakkanoughts think?

Vim


My 2000 pt list has 3 company commanders for 8 infantry squads and 2 heavy weapons teams. So I always keep the Warlord back to order around the mortars where it's safe, and the other two officers advance with the infantry. I tend to lose infantry REALLY fast, so more than 4 orders to my 8 squads is never really needed, because I don't have 8 squads for long

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Fresh-Faced New User




Quick question about how much infantry units I should carry in my army. The current 1750 point list I'm running has the following:

2x Tank Commander w/ BC, LC
Pask w/ BC, LC, Plasma Sponsons
2x Company Commander w/ Bolter, Chainsword

3x Infantry Squad w/ Bolter, Grenade Launchers
3x Infantry Squad w/ Bolter, Plasma Gun

3x Armoured Sentinels w/ Autocannons

Astropath w/ Psychic Barrier
Commissar w/ Bolter, Power Sword
Ministorum Priest
3x Bullgryns w/ Maul and Slabshield

2x Mortar Team
3x Basilisk

1x Chimera w/ Double Heavy Flamer (to transport Elite Units)
   
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Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






Yea, you probably need more infantry and a third tank commander. I'd drop the Chimera to make room for them. I'd probably drop the Priest and the Commissar to take another Astropath and a Tech Priest as well, but that's just me

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 Horst wrote:
Yea, you probably need more infantry and a third tank commander. I'd drop the Chimera to make room for them. I'd probably drop the Priest and the Commissar to take another Astropath and a Tech Priest as well, but that's just me


Doing that would leave me with 10 points if I add three infantry squads with Grenade Launcher/Boltgun. Any idea what I should spend the remaining points on? Maybe a Storm Bolter for each Tank Commander?

I do think the Tech Priest would be a good addition, especially with having three tanks.

Do you think the Bullgryns are still worth it if I don't have the Priest buffing them or the Chimera to transport them? I guess if anything they're a cheaper bullet magnet or something my opponent might ignore in favor of my Tank Commanders.
   
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Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






ronjamin1022 wrote:
 Horst wrote:
Yea, you probably need more infantry and a third tank commander. I'd drop the Chimera to make room for them. I'd probably drop the Priest and the Commissar to take another Astropath and a Tech Priest as well, but that's just me


Doing that would leave me with 10 points if I add three infantry squads with Grenade Launcher/Boltgun. Any idea what I should spend the remaining points on? Maybe a Storm Bolter for each Tank Commander?

I do think the Tech Priest would be a good addition, especially with having three tanks.

Do you think the Bullgryns are still worth it if I don't have the Priest buffing them or the Chimera to transport them? I guess if anything they're a cheaper bullet magnet or something my opponent might ignore in favor of my Tank Commanders.


Ah, I didn't even see the Bullgryns in there, lol. Didn't look close enough. I'd drop Grenade Launchers until you have room for the Priest. Maybe ditch the Commissar and some plasma guns to get the Chimera back in for them, plasma guns in infantry squads aren't that great, they only hit on a 4+ anyway, and if you're close enough to rapid fire FRFSRF makes a lasgun a damn good weapon anyway.

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Regular Dakkanaut




AdmiralHalsey wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
The vigalus artillery special detachment fire twice strat is awesome with a catachan basilisk and yarrick nearby. Took out a squad of 5+ dark reapers in a turn even with - 1 to hit.

Im playing an itc tournament tomorrow and my first opponent is running nothing but 3 x great brass scorpions of khorne. Ill be combining that strat with vengeance for cadia. Any other tips for taking on 3 cc based super heavies who can fire out of cc are appreciated.


Shadowsword.


He gets 8 s14 flat 6 damagr attacks at ws3+... Thats questionable advice. And there are 3 of them.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






CaptainO wrote:
AdmiralHalsey wrote:
CaptainO wrote:
The vigalus artillery special detachment fire twice strat is awesome with a catachan basilisk and yarrick nearby. Took out a squad of 5+ dark reapers in a turn even with - 1 to hit.

Im playing an itc tournament tomorrow and my first opponent is running nothing but 3 x great brass scorpions of khorne. Ill be combining that strat with vengeance for cadia. Any other tips for taking on 3 cc based super heavies who can fire out of cc are appreciated.


Shadowsword.


He gets 8 s14 flat 6 damagr attacks at ws3+... Thats questionable advice. And there are 3 of them.


If it's a Cadian Shadowsword, it should be able to kill a Brass Scorpion per turn on average if it sits still. Bring a techpriest to heal it and some astropaths to buff it, and throw waves of guardsmen at the Brass Scorpions to act as meatshields to keep it off your tank while it blows them up one by one.

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Fresh-Faced New User




 Horst wrote:
ronjamin1022 wrote:
 Horst wrote:
Yea, you probably need more infantry and a third tank commander. I'd drop the Chimera to make room for them. I'd probably drop the Priest and the Commissar to take another Astropath and a Tech Priest as well, but that's just me


Doing that would leave me with 10 points if I add three infantry squads with Grenade Launcher/Boltgun. Any idea what I should spend the remaining points on? Maybe a Storm Bolter for each Tank Commander?

I do think the Tech Priest would be a good addition, especially with having three tanks.

Do you think the Bullgryns are still worth it if I don't have the Priest buffing them or the Chimera to transport them? I guess if anything they're a cheaper bullet magnet or something my opponent might ignore in favor of my Tank Commanders.


Ah, I didn't even see the Bullgryns in there, lol. Didn't look close enough. I'd drop Grenade Launchers until you have room for the Priest. Maybe ditch the Commissar and some plasma guns to get the Chimera back in for them, plasma guns in infantry squads aren't that great, they only hit on a 4+ anyway, and if you're close enough to rapid fire FRFSRF makes a lasgun a damn good weapon anyway.


Follow up question. Would I absolutely need 9 infantry squads in this list or could I get away with only 8? The front 5 squads would have Bolter/GL, the back three screening the tanks with the Sentinels would be bare bones. If I did that, the list could still fit the 3 TC's, Bullgryns in a Chimera w/ Priest and Astropath, and a decent number of troops.

Or if I ditched the Bullgryn/Chimera combo, I could fit 3 more infantry squads along with the Tech Priest and 2nd Astropath replacing them and the Ministorum Priest. That would leave me with 148 points to spare, plus would let me run a Battalion in addition to the Brigade. I figure that might be used to give my backline Infantry Squads a HWT and keep one of the TC's as Pask. That would leave me with 45 points that I'm not sure what I would do with, but I feel like it's a much more efficient use of points.
   
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Been Around the Block




A quick question regarding to the relic cannon: Hammer of Sunderance:
Can I do shoot twice with this weapon according the grinding advance rule?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/12 12:22:07


 
   
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Regular Dakkanaut




Catachan basilisk with artillery drtachment double shoot combo'd with vengence for cadia killed one. Grudges combod with 3 tanks (conquerer, 2 tank commamders with punisher and battle cannon killed the other) it helped i went first. Tabled him by t2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
CaptainO wrote:
Catachan basilisk with artillery drtachment double shoot combo'd with vengence for cadia killed one. Grudges combod with 3 tanks (conquerer, 2 tank commamders with punisher and battle cannon killed the other) it helped i went first. Tabled him by t2.


Against the 3 brass scorpions of khorne.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/12 12:20:55


 
   
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Hey, just a thought here - can you take regular infantry squads with the 'death korps' regiment?

I was wondering if you could squeeze down the loyal 32 to cost just 166pts with their field marshals only costing 23pts to my knowledge?

Thanks for any help!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Answering my own question: apparently not! They can't get the keyword according to the imperial armour book.

But regardless, I believe they could still be taken in a mixed regiment detachment e.g.

Death korps Field officer 23
Death korps Field officer 23
Other regiment infantry squad 40pts
Other regiment infantry squad 40pts
Other regiment infantry squad 40pts

I know that it usually makes more sense to shell out for the company commanders cos of their great orders, but it would allow me to field the horror that is:

Castellan
Gallant
Gallant
Gallant

2x loyal 32

At 2K points.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/12 20:42:31


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 DoomMouse wrote:
Hey, just a thought here - can you take regular infantry squads with the 'death korps' regiment?

I was wondering if you could squeeze down the loyal 32 to cost just 166pts with their field marshals only costing 23pts to my knowledge?

Thanks for any help!
You cannot. The book has an explicit list of what may be DKOK and normal codex Infantry Squads are not one of them. You have to take the 50 point DKOK version listed in the FW book. You can, however, take a DKOK Battalion using the units in the FW book. You can take Two Field Officers and three units of Grenadier Storm Squads for 166 points.

Or you could just take an Admech Battallion for the CP which is 165 points.

If you just want a CP battery you're better off just taking an Admech and a normal Guard Codex ones, but if people are willing to let you use DKOK rules for non-DKOK models then go and take the DKOK 17 model battalion.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/12 20:45:06


Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Because some people get their knickers in a twist, I'll list these RaW 'oddities' in my sig. Sadly GW's promise of fixing their broken rules has itself been broken. Zoom in to read them. RaW you cannot advance and then fire assault weapons, you can't shoot pistols if within 1" of an enemy; "minimum" ranges don't work; Seraphim have to re-roll saves that "fail" pre-re-roll; the game simply breaks if you ever have more than one wounded model in a unit; the game also breaks if a single rule ever tries to do multiple things simultaneously; Khârn punches himself in the face if he's not near some meatshields; Librarians on Bikes are locked to the Index power list, Howling Banshees can't declare a charge further than 12"; Spore Mines have an infinite range; Shroudpsalm technically doesn't do anything, only enemy models, not friendly models, have permission to move on top of a Skyshield Landing Pad; T'au have access to stackable Ignore Wounds (albeit against Mortal Wounds only); the T'au Early Warning Override Support System only works if a unit is "teleporting to the battlefield", not just arriving mid-battle; you can only ever use the Deathwatch Teleportarium Stratagem "once", and then never again in any battle after you use it; if a model splits fire, each weapon must target a different unit; a Tyrant Guard with Lashwhip can absorb an infinite amount of damage via Shieldwall between the time they die and the time they fight; Chapter Tactics on Successor Chapters don't actually do anything; Codex Leman Russ's can take an infinite amount of Hunter-Killer Missiles, Storm Bolters and Heavy Stubbers; Imothekh's 'Lord of the Storm' ability hits the "target unit" twice; "Airborne" units can't be charged by non-FLY units, but can be Heroically Intervened into, piled into, or consolidated into just fine by non-FLY units; Wave Serpents cannot be legally charged at by any model with a standard base; Slab Shields, along with the 'Take Cover!' stratagem no longer have any effect; and vehicles that are "slain" by a special effect do not trigger the "Explodes" ability.
--- Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities --- Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. 
   
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 BaconCatBug wrote:
 DoomMouse wrote:
Hey, just a thought here - can you take regular infantry squads with the 'death korps' regiment?

You cannot. The book has an explicit list of what may be DKOK and normal codex Infantry Squads are not one of them. You have to take the 50 point DKOK version listed in the FW book. You can, however, take a DKOK Battalion using the units in the FW book. You can take Two Field Officers and three units of Grenadier Storm Squads for 166 points.

Or you could just take an Admech Battallion for the CP which is 165 points.

If you just want a CP battery you're better off just taking an Admech and a normal Guard Codex ones, but if people are willing to let you use DKOK rules for non-DKOK models then go and take the DKOK 17 model battalion.


Cheers, didn't know of the existence of grenadier storm squads - I'll look into them. Mainly after something to cap objectives that can also get orders to move-move-move at crazy speeds so they sound pretty awesome.

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You might be better off with a codex battalion then. 180 points but 10 extra wounds and can take orders, a mixed battalion will lack orders.

Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Because some people get their knickers in a twist, I'll list these RaW 'oddities' in my sig. Sadly GW's promise of fixing their broken rules has itself been broken. Zoom in to read them. RaW you cannot advance and then fire assault weapons, you can't shoot pistols if within 1" of an enemy; "minimum" ranges don't work; Seraphim have to re-roll saves that "fail" pre-re-roll; the game simply breaks if you ever have more than one wounded model in a unit; the game also breaks if a single rule ever tries to do multiple things simultaneously; Khârn punches himself in the face if he's not near some meatshields; Librarians on Bikes are locked to the Index power list, Howling Banshees can't declare a charge further than 12"; Spore Mines have an infinite range; Shroudpsalm technically doesn't do anything, only enemy models, not friendly models, have permission to move on top of a Skyshield Landing Pad; T'au have access to stackable Ignore Wounds (albeit against Mortal Wounds only); the T'au Early Warning Override Support System only works if a unit is "teleporting to the battlefield", not just arriving mid-battle; you can only ever use the Deathwatch Teleportarium Stratagem "once", and then never again in any battle after you use it; if a model splits fire, each weapon must target a different unit; a Tyrant Guard with Lashwhip can absorb an infinite amount of damage via Shieldwall between the time they die and the time they fight; Chapter Tactics on Successor Chapters don't actually do anything; Codex Leman Russ's can take an infinite amount of Hunter-Killer Missiles, Storm Bolters and Heavy Stubbers; Imothekh's 'Lord of the Storm' ability hits the "target unit" twice; "Airborne" units can't be charged by non-FLY units, but can be Heroically Intervened into, piled into, or consolidated into just fine by non-FLY units; Wave Serpents cannot be legally charged at by any model with a standard base; Slab Shields, along with the 'Take Cover!' stratagem no longer have any effect; and vehicles that are "slain" by a special effect do not trigger the "Explodes" ability.
--- Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities --- Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. 
   
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Maxamato wrote:
A quick question regarding to the relic cannon: Hammer of Sunderance:
Can I do shoot twice with this weapon according the grinding advance rule?


Yes. It's a battle cannon. Ignore any attempt at an over-literal RAW argument, pretending that it isn't a battle cannon means attempting to argue that GW deliberately made a relic that is worse in every relevant situation than the basic weapon it replaces.

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 Peregrine wrote:
Maxamato wrote:
A quick question regarding to the relic cannon: Hammer of Sunderance:
Can I do shoot twice with this weapon according the grinding advance rule?


Yes. It's a battle cannon. Ignore any attempt at an over-literal RAW argument, pretending that it isn't a battle cannon means attempting to argue that GW deliberately made a relic that is worse in every relevant situation than the basic weapon it replaces.
No, it's not a battle cannon. Ignore any attempt at ignoring the rules because you don't like it, pretending that it is a battlecannon ignores an explicitly clear rule, the same way that taking the relic still means you have to roll to hit with your models. It's not "worse in every relevant situation" because it's a flat 3 damage.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/13 09:36:32


Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Because some people get their knickers in a twist, I'll list these RaW 'oddities' in my sig. Sadly GW's promise of fixing their broken rules has itself been broken. Zoom in to read them. RaW you cannot advance and then fire assault weapons, you can't shoot pistols if within 1" of an enemy; "minimum" ranges don't work; Seraphim have to re-roll saves that "fail" pre-re-roll; the game simply breaks if you ever have more than one wounded model in a unit; the game also breaks if a single rule ever tries to do multiple things simultaneously; Khârn punches himself in the face if he's not near some meatshields; Librarians on Bikes are locked to the Index power list, Howling Banshees can't declare a charge further than 12"; Spore Mines have an infinite range; Shroudpsalm technically doesn't do anything, only enemy models, not friendly models, have permission to move on top of a Skyshield Landing Pad; T'au have access to stackable Ignore Wounds (albeit against Mortal Wounds only); the T'au Early Warning Override Support System only works if a unit is "teleporting to the battlefield", not just arriving mid-battle; you can only ever use the Deathwatch Teleportarium Stratagem "once", and then never again in any battle after you use it; if a model splits fire, each weapon must target a different unit; a Tyrant Guard with Lashwhip can absorb an infinite amount of damage via Shieldwall between the time they die and the time they fight; Chapter Tactics on Successor Chapters don't actually do anything; Codex Leman Russ's can take an infinite amount of Hunter-Killer Missiles, Storm Bolters and Heavy Stubbers; Imothekh's 'Lord of the Storm' ability hits the "target unit" twice; "Airborne" units can't be charged by non-FLY units, but can be Heroically Intervened into, piled into, or consolidated into just fine by non-FLY units; Wave Serpents cannot be legally charged at by any model with a standard base; Slab Shields, along with the 'Take Cover!' stratagem no longer have any effect; and vehicles that are "slain" by a special effect do not trigger the "Explodes" ability.
--- Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities --- Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. 
   
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Ignore BCB's over-literal RAW nonsense, their sole purpose in posting it is to congratulate themselves on how clever they are for finding GW's mistakes. The vast majority of people you will encounter in real life understand that the relic is a battle cannon and will play it that way. For purposes of a tactics thread, where the goal is to help people get better at playing IG and win real games and not to obsess over theoretical RAW that never applies in the real world, the relic is a battle cannon and that's the only reasonable way to discuss it.

And yes, being a flat 3 damage is worse when you have half the shots. There is no target type where the BCB version of the relic does more average damage per turn than the basic gun it replaces. The only conceivable situation where you could possibly benefit is if you are moving more than half speed and therefore don't get to shoot twice with either gun, but that's almost never going to be the case with a LRBT. And that edge-case scenario is not anywhere near enough of an advantage to justify spending a relic slot (which you probably bought with CP) to get it.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/01/13 11:08:36


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




BCB is correct its not a battal cannon - it should be faq'd that way but right now it isnt and you can't fire it twice

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/13 11:18:35


 
   
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader




U02dah4 wrote:
BCB is correct its not a battal cannon - it should be faq'd that way but right now it isnt and you can't fire it twice

I agree. It's pretty explicit that it replaces a Battlecannon, the opposite of being one. All Relic's replace their respective weapons, but they're not their respective weapons.

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Fresh-Faced New User




The issue is NOT is it a battle cannon or not. The issue is whether it is a turret weapon or not. Grinding Advance lets you fire your turret weapon twice, so you have to find someone asinine enough to argue the relic is not a turret weapon because it doesn't appear on a list written before the relic existed.
   
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Iowa

Has anyone tried the Emperor’s Benediction bolt pistol relic? How bitey does it make your Commissars?

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Murray, Kentucky

 Apple Peel wrote:
Has anyone tried the Emperor’s Benediction bolt pistol relic? How bitey does it make your Commissars?

It's fun but don't expect miracles. It's going on a commissar, he can only do so much. Keep in mind unless you're fighting orks, GSC, or IG, most characters are beefy enough with armor/invuln to take it to the face and not really care.

It's a good relic to take for fun games against a new player or in a narrative game where running a commander with old grudges and relic of cadia would be seen as poor taste.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

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Longtime Dakkanaut




diagramdude wrote:
The issue is NOT is it a battle cannon or not. The issue is whether it is a turret weapon or not. Grinding Advance lets you fire your turret weapon twice, so you have to find someone asinine enough to argue the relic is not a turret weapon because it doesn't appear on a list written before the relic existed.


And it then specifically defines which weapons are turret weapons if it is not on that list you dont get grinding advance.

The following weapons are turret weapons: battle cannon, Conqueror battle cannon, Demolisher cannon, Eradicator nova cannon, Executioner plasma cannon, Exterminator autocannon, Punisher gatling cannon, Stygies Vanquisher battle cannon, twin lascannon and Vanquisher battle cannon.

So currently its not on that list.
   
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Right behind you.

U02dah4 wrote:
diagramdude wrote:
The issue is NOT is it a battle cannon or not. The issue is whether it is a turret weapon or not. Grinding Advance lets you fire your turret weapon twice, so you have to find someone asinine enough to argue the relic is not a turret weapon because it doesn't appear on a list written before the relic existed.


And it then specifically defines which weapons are turret weapons if it is not on that list you dont get grinding advance.

The following weapons are turret weapons: battle cannon, Conqueror battle cannon, Demolisher cannon, Eradicator nova cannon, Executioner plasma cannon, Exterminator autocannon, Punisher gatling cannon, Stygies Vanquisher battle cannon, twin lascannon and Vanquisher battle cannon.

So currently its not on that list.

Model with battle cannon only. Hammer of Sunderance replaces the bearer's battle cannon and has the following profile:


This is a ridiculous argument to try to make and you should feel bad for making it.
   
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






I also think that when something is so clearly RAI it just looks bad when people try and undermine it. I'd take the side of the player who is using this as a turret weapon, just as I'd take the side of the player who is shooting his pistols when in CC even though (as I understand) that technically RAW you can't do this

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/13 23:49:56


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It's Raw and the convention is that Raw trumps Rai
   
 
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