Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, I wanted to find about how things went at this year's Feast of Blades invitational. The Internet is strangely silent. Anyone?

I was wondering the same thing.

Doh, you said Invitational.

Well, one finalist was found to have made it to round 6 with an illegal list (white scars with Sevrin Loth stuck in there) so he was made to change his list on the spot, and the other was DQed for having dice with the 2's drilled and painted to look like 5's so that he couldn't roll 2's with Tzeentch Daemons.

So, I guess, uh... everyone's a winner?

slaede wrote:
Well, one finalist was found to have made it to round 6 with an illegal list (white scars with Sevrin Loth stuck in there) so he was made to change his list on the spot, and the other was DQed for having dice with the 2's drilled and painted to look like 5's so that he couldn't roll 2's with Tzeentch Daemons.

So, I guess, uh... everyone's a winner?

Which player drilled their dice? Inquiring GT organizers wish to know for future reference if this player attends.

It was Kenny Boucher from he Forge the Narrative podcast. Supposedly it happened at the end of the tournament. He claims he bought the dice on eBay but never checked them. He apologized publicly at the event and wrote an apology on the FTN Facebook page.

Who was it a bit ago that showed up and used weighted dice claiming he had no idea they were loaded and that he'd just picked them up on his into the event? I wanna say it was at Beaky Con but I'm not 100%sure.

Also, who doesn't notice they don't roll two's on certain dice all tournament?

slaede wrote:
Well, one finalist was found to have made it to round 6 with an illegal list (white scars with Sevrin Loth stuck in there) so he was made to change his list on the spot, and the other was DQed for having dice with the 2's drilled and painted to look like 5's so that he couldn't roll 2's with Tzeentch Daemons.

So, I guess, uh... everyone's a winner?

What was illegal about the list? Over in points?

So besides the crap that people love to endlessly talk about (cheating), I'm much more interested in the actual results (and general perceptions of the whole thing), given that it was a 'kitchen sink' event (where you could take just about anything).

Did it still roughly all still work given the huge breadth of choices players had to bring? Did certain LoW dominate (Ascendent C'Tan)? Minus the 'cheaters', what were the other lists in the finals, etc, etc, etc.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

jy2 wrote:
What was illegal about the list? Over in points?

Severin Loth has to be in a Red Scorpions detachment and it sounds like he was in a White Scars detachment.

Yep, found the thread. It was BeakyCon 2012 with supposedly member of the Wrecking Crew using a weighted dice for his go first or seize rolls.

As for the event I'm also interested in the results and what people thought about the format.

 jy2 wrote:

slaede wrote:
Well, one finalist was found to have made it to round 6 with an illegal list (white scars with Sevrin Loth stuck in there) so he was made to change his list on the spot, and the other was DQed for having dice with the 2's drilled and painted to look like 5's so that he couldn't roll 2's with Tzeentch Daemons.

So, I guess, uh... everyone's a winner?

What was illegal about the list? Over in points?

Sevrin Loth was included in a White Scars detachment, apparently. Feast Facebook page said they got it wrong by letting him change up his list in the last game and apologized.

What use are the results of the tournament? Both finalists got there illegitimately and weren't caught until they vanquished ten opponents. That throws the entire thing into disarray. You think if you lost to Boucher and finished 20th that you would feel your placing has any legitimacy?

slaede wrote:

What use are the results of the tournament? Both finalists got there illegitimately and weren't caught until they vanquished ten opponents. That throws the entire thing into disarray. You think if you lost to Boucher and finished 20th that you would feel your placing has any legitimacy?

The only reason that matters if you think the overall winner of a tournament is the only thing that matters, which is most certainly not the case seeing that is the biggest event to allow just about everything.

So yes, I could care less about the cheaters, but I would love to find out more about everything else.

Yakface, the only thing I'm getting from you is that cheating is ok as long as everybody had fun.

Everybody didn't have fun. The guys who caught them have spoken. They won't be going back next year.

Really curious about the T. C'tans performance amongst other uber-LoW?

 Julnlecs wrote:
Yakface, the only thing I'm getting from you is that cheating is ok as long as everybody had fun.

Everybody didn't have fun. The guys who caught them have spoken. They won't be going back next year.

You can choose to interpret what I said in any manner you like, but the above summary isn't at all what I was saying.

What I'm saying is that people love to talk endlessly about cheating. You could easily have 10 pages about people saying the same things about cheaters.

I could care less about talking about cheaters. People that need to cheat to win toy soldier games are pathetic and if it can be confirmed that they knowingly cheated, then they should be banned, plain and simple.

But my point was:

Regardless of whether there were cheaters in the event or even if they managed to win, there is still lots more things of interest to actually discuss about the event, since this was quite a unique set of event rules (compared to other events)…so I would love for people that were there to actually talk about other parts of the event, because frankly there isn't any more to say about cheating that hasn't already been said a billion times over.

I agree with Yackface. I want to know how the T-C'tan played, and other super heavies/Lords of War in a standard game.

 Fxeni wrote:

slaede wrote:
Well, one finalist was found to have made it to round 6 with an illegal list (white scars with Sevrin Loth stuck in there) so he was made to change his list on the spot, and the other was DQed for having dice with the 2's drilled and painted to look like 5's so that he couldn't roll 2's with Tzeentch Daemons.

So, I guess, uh... everyone's a winner?

Which player drilled their dice? Inquiring GT organizers wish to know for future reference if this player attends.

It should be noted that I said he had drilled dice. I didn't say he drilled them himself. He says he bought a bucket of used dice on Ebay and didn't know. I've personally played Kenny at ATC and found him a fine fellow and a skilled player. However, being a Tzeentch Daemon player myself, and knowing how much rolling 2's happens to be bad for Tzeentch Daemons with 3+ saves and Grimoires, I can't help but be given pause.

No C'Tans at all. There was a Warhound, 400pt Stompa that a lot of players questioned how he got it at 400pts, the 999pt FW Lord of Change to which I drew for round 1 and couldn't do anything to. No Adaman Lance, someone had draigo and that was practically it for LoW that I saw in lists. There were only 32 players so if felt more like a RTT then the actual Invitational it was the past 4 years. Missions were interesting which can be found on the FOB website. Terrain this year included a massive Cathedral centerpiece that was 15"x 10" and 10"+ in height.

Wish it was as big as last year but feeling many places don't want to pay to host a qualifier. Felt the switch from No LoW/Esc/SH/FW in the quals to everything in the Invitational was a bit much. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed 6 of my 8 Games played this weekend, I just don't feel at 1500pts its a good Idea to include everything in the game. I think Originally thats what the Open GT was meant for at FoB. In the future, I'd hope they keep the Qual the same as the Invitational for restrictions on lists even if it were to allow LoW, be it Codex only ones.

slaede wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

What was illegal about the list? Over in points?

Sevrin Loth was included in a White Scars detachment, apparently. Feast Facebook page said they got it wrong by letting him change up his list in the last game and apologized.

Isn't FoB one of the few events that still required and approved lists in advance? If so, then how should they have handled it? I did go read their list construction requirements, leaves a bit to be desired for clarity. Not defending whatever did/did not happen, just musing.

 punchdub wrote:

slaede wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

What was illegal about the list? Over in points?

Sevrin Loth was included in a White Scars detachment, apparently. Feast Facebook page said they got it wrong by letting him change up his list in the last game and apologized.

Isn't FoB one of the few events that still required and approved lists in advance? If so, then how should they have handled it? I did go read their list construction requirements, leaves a bit to be desired for clarity. Not defending whatever did/did not happen, just musing.

I dunno, but if only 32 people showed up, I'd say making stores pay to host a qualifier and running a mostly unrestricted tournament where C'tan shards are legal does not appear to be a recipe for success. Or it could be that 7e is just that terrible that tourney attendance is getting hit. Only 7 showed up to the local Feast qualifier in Phoenix. Nobody showed for an RTT this past Saturday.

Wait, wait, wait. The Transcendent is supposed to be so OP, that when allowed, everyone will take one, and butt hurt will be had by all. How can this be?

http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/tournament/Feast-of-Blades-Open-2014/3/leaderboard

Is the only one posted on ToF so far.

With so many lists to check and the complexity of the lists now, things can fall through the cracks.

So I was in the Open and talked to Kenny after the games. When I asked how his games went, he let me know how it all went down for him. When he told me he bought a grab bag of dice on ebay and some of them them ended up being "messed up", I believed him. I've known Kenny for a while now and he's a straight shooter. I also spoke with his opponent who told me he played Kenny TWICE on the weekend and never thought anything was a miss. Here's the thing, there were only 2-3 dice that were in question and Kenny's opponent(I think his name was Josh) said to me that Kenny would reach into his box without looking grabbing random dice to use for rolls. Random being big dice, small sice, whatever, it was a grab bag. So the chances of pulling those "rigged dice" when there were not that many are very low.

On the whole attendance was down but I think every tournament so far except Adepticon has been the same way. 7th ed I guess? lot's of different reasons I suppose. I can't speak for the lists in the Invitational other than it was pointed out to me that between ALL the players, there were only 6-7 wave serpents? Impressive. In the Open there were a few crazy things in people's list but not too over the top I think. A few superheavies like a Shadowsword, a Fellblade, a Big Mek Stompa, and a Harridan was even flying around on one of the tables. Overall it was a great event like every year I've gone, just attendance was down is all.

I don't understand what was so hard to understand about the whole situation on the part of the TOs. If someone is found to be doing something prohibited by the rules, they should be immediately DQ'd from the event and their wins vacated. It makes no difference if it was intentional or not. I don't believe people should be banned permanently, because mistakes are made. If you are DQ'd in multiple events than bans may become necessary, but as far as this tournament goes I think a valuable lesson on tournament preparation may be the appropriate punishment. I don't know Kenny or Josh well enough to make a judgement on who they are, and I don't condemn them. If it was a mistake, it is one they won't make again.if it wasn't, then it's a mistake the community won't let happen again (without consequences).
All that being said, I've said this on another site and I'll say it here. The outrage isn't about trophies, victories, or prizes. It's about the investment I make as a player to fly, stay, and participate away from my home, girlfriend, and job. I spent nearly $500 on this trip. I played 7 games and enjoyed all of them - including the one I played against Kenny. I thought the TOs were great, hard working, and deserve recognition for the efforts they put forth to run a great event. But in my eyes my event is tarnished by the actions (accidental or otherwise) of a few, but more importantly, the lack of appropriate consequences on the part of the organizers. I know they were put in a tough spot, and it's clear they weren't prepared to handle it. I hope that all future tournaments develop plans and are prepared to enforce them, even if it means booting someone from the top table and handing the trophy to the next guy (or in this case, the next-next guy). Until then, I won't be giving anyone my $75 to feel like I wasn't given a fair shake at winning, as everyone should receive.

Then you will never attend a gt again, every event for any game will have someone do something shady or against the rules either on purpose or accidentally. TOs will never catch everything. There is also no good response beyond dqing the player going forward. Any retroactive awarding of wins messes up the whole event.
I thought they did DQ Kenny what else really needs to be done? Retroactively give all his opponents wins, and max points? IMO that is way less fair to everyone else, as it is unlikely that that would have actually happened.

Lesson here which should have been learned am while ago. Don't buy random bags of dice or at least check them if you do. Also events can provide dice if you really want to cut down on this issue.

So I like Kenny and listen to his podcast, but I have to say the whitewashing that is going on here is disturbing. The player at Beakycon was essentially crucified by Blood of Kittens and posters here. He was shamed into quitting 40k. The posts went on for weeks. The player had the exact same circumstances as Kenny. I'm all for forgiveness not the faux rage that went on before. Players should be DQ'd and that should be the end of it.

Why was Kenny called out for the dice ?

I am a avid listener of the podcast. I like the FTN crew however in this case I feel Kenny needs to prove his innocence. EBay receipt, the original listing, etc.... I am really bummed out by this. The FTN crew helped design the missions for FOB as well.
No part of this is ok. If you are caught with a smoking gun you need to do more then apologize. You must prove you didn't know. Its embarrassing to the game and if it was me I'd be doing more then saying sorry.

So where can we get the actual results? I heard pure DE came in 4th. I would love to see the list!

Breng77 wrote:
Then you will never attend a gt again, every event for any game will have someone do something shady or against the rules either on purpose or accidentally. TOs will never catch everything. There is also no good response beyond dqing the player going forward. Any retroactive awarding of wins messes up the whole event.
I thought they did DQ Kenny what else really needs to be done? Retroactively give all his opponents wins, and max points? IMO that is way less fair to everyone else, as it is unlikely that that would have actually happened.

Lesson here which should have been learned am while ago. Don't buy random bags of dice or at least check them if you do. Also events can provide dice if you really want to cut down on this issue.

Kenny wasn't the only one Breng. Joshua used an illegal list for most of his games. He was called out on it and all the judges did was allow him to change his list mid tournament and continue playing like nothing was wrong. He then ended up winning the invitational. Rules clearly said you could only take 2 sources and he took 3.