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Celestine4thewin wrote:This wasn't because someone did well, it was due to a list being outside of the rules.of the tournament. As far as Kenny playing Tzeentch, he didn't have any heralds or Grimoire in his list. He had two CSM Sorcerers and Belakor, and never rolled a single save on the Daemonettes. (In our game).

Aha, good to know.

@MVB: Yeah. I mean, it is very possible that it went down as he said, but still. Even if it did, it seems crazy that he wouldn't notice and that the dice would be coincidentally set up like that. Even if it's a coincidence, it's the worst possible thing to happen to him.

The thing is that the number 5 is the only one where the other number wont show up on one of the sides while also being able to drill it with the normal placement of pips.

So there is no way to really see it unless you actively look at it closely. So it is quite understandable how both players would not notice at all.

For kenny it would have required that he closely examined every one of the random dice(anyone here actually do that?)

It doesn't seem crazy pretre it actually seems pretty logical, I have hundreds of dice and grab random handfuls usually to bring to games/tournaments. I've never once inspected mine or anyone else dice because I thought they're was something odd about them. It seems crazy to me someone even caught the fact that they were altered. I guess that's just me though. And it is super unfortunate for Kenny, he seems like a solid dude who genuinely likes the competition in a non waac way.

Chancetragedy wrote:
It doesn't seem crazy pretre it actually seems pretty logical, I have hundreds of dice and grab random handfuls usually to bring to games/tournaments. I've never once inspected mine or anyone else dice because I thought they're was something odd about them. It seems crazy to me someone even caught the fact that they were altered. I guess that's just me though. And it is super unfortunate for Kenny, he seems like a solid dude who genuinely likes the competition in a non waac way.

I guess that people handle things differently. I like nice matching sets of dice for tournaments: a cube of chessex, or a bag of dakka dice. Either way, it's really unusual to have some very specifically modified dice mixed into your dice. I own pounds of dice as well for 40k, D&D and other games and I'm willing to bet there aren't any loaded ones in there.

Awhile ago I bought a whole bunch of game science dice on Amazon. Anyway I played with them for about a year before one of opponents pointed out that on a handful of them the opposite sides didn't add up to seven. I was shocked and had never noticed that before.

Is it the same as having dice that don't roll twos and will roll more fives and than anything? No, of course not, but it does show that even at high end dice manufactures issues happen.

We only identified as modified after we were sitting around BSing and I was rolling it and after about 10 minutes we were just like "wow this dice rolls crazy...", then another random player realized we hadn't rolled a single 2. It wasn't during a game, I had found it under the table I played Kenny on. I have no idea if he used it in the game, but he didn't roll insane so who knows. I will repeat that he didn't act like a cheat when we played and I didn't notice home specifically grabbing the dice (there were several in the box) in specific situations. I'm inclined to.give him the benefit of the doubt on his intentions, but dropping from the tournament was the only proper move.

I just want to get a little clarification- so Kenny wasn't caught using the die and dropped out of the tourney of his own will? or was he caught in the game using it?

BeeCee wrote:
I just want to get a little clarification- so Kenny wasn't caught using the die and dropped out of the tourney of his own will? or was he caught in the game using it?

Kenny here
I am the one with the cheater dice. I just wanted to weigh in here. Arron (great guy I played with sisiters) turned in a suspicious dice to the TO. They brought it to my attention and I immediately agreed to have my cigar box of about 120 dice inspected. The inspection revield one more dice like the one turned in(could be wrong about the number,they had me walk away). I obviously waw DQ'd and immediately reminded them that I played in the doubles tournament the day before and did well in that event too....and reminded them to QD'd me and my partner who i shared some dice with. I will talk more on this during our podcast and webcasts. Feel free to contact me for more details.
With sincerest apologies
Kenny

BeeCee wrote:
I just want to get a little clarification- so Kenny wasn't caught using the die and dropped out of the tourney of his own will? or was he caught in the game using it?

Correct, the dice was found on the floor. He didn't know about it and wasn't specifically going for any dice but instead dropped out of the tourney out of his own free will esp it was brought to his attention. It asn't brought to his attention till the final table where as you saw Celestine4thewin is the one who reported it.

Hello,

I was the one with the list issues and I would like to say something in regards.

I have watched the backlash over the past 24 hours in regards to the Feast of Blades Invitational this year and feel that at this point I needed to step up and say a couple of things.

I contacted the FoB staff in regards to what I was going to run for the invitational this year a couple of times to make sure that I was running my list the way they wanted. I know that 7th edition has created a situation where there is an exorbitant amount of information and sources out there to choose from when building a list and it can get confusing.

When in the 6th round the head judge brought it to my attention that the list I was running was not a valid list as per their rules, I asked what they wanted me to do about it. I was told that I would need to modify my list to make it legal. I asked how they wanted me to modify my list that they would be comfortable with the changes and was told to remove enough from the list to add one troop choice to the list from the Red Scorpions chapter to make the Red Scorpions character I was using a legal allied detachment. So I made the appropriate changes to my list.

I took a couple of minutes to ask the head judges whether they felt it would be better overall for the tournament if I stepped down and forfeited right then and was told that the changes that were made were done so I can play it out, and that I should play if I wanted to play. I am not going to lie when I say that I really wanted to play and so with their endorsement I played on. I came to this tournament with the intent to play a legal list and thought I was. Obviously there was a miscommunication somewhere before the tournament occurred as I thought I was doing so. It was never my intent to take advantage of the tournament or to "cheat" in any way.

The fact that now the integrity of the Feast of Blades staff has been called into question along with myself, my team, and others has made if very clear to me that maintaining that integrity and the integrity of this community is far more important than a pretty trophy (and it is pretty) and a couple boxes of Eldar that I got as a prize.

I feel that the only thing I can do to assist in trying to fix the issue that has arisen as a result of this past weekend is to step down as the winner of the Feast of Blades and give my prize support to Vince (I can't remember his last name) from El Paso, TX. He was running a beautiful Daemon list led by the Forgeworld Lord of Change (the 999 point one). If by chance anyone on any of these forums knows how to contact Vince and let him know to get in contact with me I would be more than happy to send him the trophy and prize support from the event. He fought well and played hard and is truly deserving of the prize.

The only other thing I can do is offer my deepest apologies to any individuals that came to this event and felt they didn't get their fair shot. I sincerely do apologize to you for any wrong you feel victim of. I know it costs a lot to go to these events, I spent a hefty sum myself coming out to this one. And I know that feeling like you got cheated hurts and can even make some question whether it is worth making the trip again. I can only pray that what I am saying here will fall on open ears and hearts and you will know that these events are still worth going to and such a great time to have been able to experience.

I have held to the motto for years in my life that "I don't judge people by the mistakes they make in life, but how they deal with those mistakes." I am hoping that I have dealt with this mistake as best I can. I hope to have a chance to come back next year and make a good showing for both my team and the Feast.

As far as my games with Kenny. I had such an amazing two games with Kenny this weekend and I refuse to believe there was EVER any intent behind whatever may have been found in regards to his dice. He was an amazing opponent both time we played and I would love the opportunity to play again. Hope to see you again Kenny. Sorry about this weekend.

Takes a lot to step up and do something like this, Josh. Well done, especially considering all of the circumstances. I had a blast at FoB, it was fun, well run, and I plan on coming back again next year.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
This was posted on Kenny's Next Level Painting FB page:

"This weekend I had a blast at feast of blades. It was simply amazing. Everyone was awesome. There was however a dice issue. I am humiliated and embarrassed that this has occurred. I did not know that there were illegal dice in my dice box. It was simply a mistake on my part. I know this is only an excuse, and no one has any reason to believe me. I purchased a party pack of dice on eBay. It was a random assortment of dice. The seller listed it simply as "one pound of randomly selected dice". 40k is more to me than simply winning. I have played for over 10 years and have professionally painted over 100 armies. For me, 40k is about hanging out with great friends and having a great weekend together while playing 40k. I often talk about there being a social-contract between each player for our 2-plus hour games. I am humiliated that I did not inspect my dice when I bought them and violated this social-contract with all of my opponents this weekend. I will now always inspect my dice and promise to show this amazing community that this situation is not indicative of me or my behavior. To my mother- who watched watched all of my streaming games this weekend, my brother, my friends, this community, and most importantly my opponents; I am sorry. This will never happen again."-Kenny

I have known Kenny for a couple of years and was shocked when his name came up as someone with funny die. It is very much outside his MO as he is typically a nice and honest guy who would rather go pew pew with models and drink a cold one rather than win a game. He also has an investment in this hobby as his career is based on his reputation. For what it is worth I will put myself behind Kenny and back him up and chalk this off to an honest mistake. He just is not that kind of guy that will cheat.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Yep, found the thread. It was BeakyCon 2012 with supposedly member of the Wrecking Crew using a weighted dice for his go first or seize rolls.

As for the event I'm also interested in the results and what people thought about the format.

It was not a member of the WRECKING CREW, it was a guy from south florida, there were several WRECKING CREW members there. I actually played and beat the guy with the dice, never noticed that it was being used. The dice in question was inspected later that night in the hotel and we all determined with a very scientific method( roll it a bunch of times while drinking) that it was wieghted. The guy using it was not in contention to win anything but the middle of the pack award. Had tons of random dice, he was DQed and hasnt been seen playing 40k since.

So no these two incidents are not related and no Kenny was not at Beaky Con.

Just putting a little truth to the statement.

I did say supposedly. That was what was in the previous thread here. I knew it wasn't Kenny at that event.

Every time I've met or seen Kenny he's seemed like a stand up dude (when he wasn't to drunk to stand ). As rando as it was I would have given him a pass based on his history alone and seeing how he attends events. It's why I was a bit shocked it was his name honestly.

I love Kenny and those amazing GUNS he sports, as well as his fine hat. The only issue I see is that he just happened to be playing a list the SPECIFICALLY fails rolls on a 2 and the dice he bought had the 2's replaced by 5's. I'm sure that is just coincidence but can we all agree that it is one HELL of a coincidence?

/ducks into the bushes.

Joshua.Dearth wrote:Hello,

I was the one with the list issues and I would like to say something in regards.

I have watched the backlash over the past 24 hours in regards to the Feast of Blades Invitational this year and feel that at this point I needed to step up and say a couple of things.

I contacted the FoB staff in regards to what I was going to run for the invitational this year a couple of times to make sure that I was running my list the way they wanted. I know that 7th edition has created a situation where there is an exorbitant amount of information and sources out there to choose from when building a list and it can get confusing.

When in the 6th round the head judge brought it to my attention that the list I was running was not a valid list as per their rules, I asked what they wanted me to do about it. I was told that I would need to modify my list to make it legal. I asked how they wanted me to modify my list that they would be comfortable with the changes and was told to remove enough from the list to add one troop choice to the list from the Red Scorpions chapter to make the Red Scorpions character I was using a legal allied detachment. So I made the appropriate changes to my list.

I took a couple of minutes to ask the head judges whether they felt it would be better overall for the tournament if I stepped down and forfeited right then and was told that the changes that were made were done so I can play it out, and that I should play if I wanted to play. I am not going to lie when I say that I really wanted to play and so with their endorsement I played on. I came to this tournament with the intent to play a legal list and thought I was. Obviously there was a miscommunication somewhere before the tournament occurred as I thought I was doing so. It was never my intent to take advantage of the tournament or to "cheat" in any way.

The fact that now the integrity of the Feast of Blades staff has been called into question along with myself, my team, and others has made if very clear to me that maintaining that integrity and the integrity of this community is far more important than a pretty trophy (and it is pretty) and a couple boxes of Eldar that I got as a prize.

I feel that the only thing I can do to assist in trying to fix the issue that has arisen as a result of this past weekend is to step down as the winner of the Feast of Blades and give my prize support to Vince (I can't remember his last name) from El Paso, TX. He was running a beautiful Daemon list led by the Forgeworld Lord of Change (the 999 point one). If by chance anyone on any of these forums knows how to contact Vince and let him know to get in contact with me I would be more than happy to send him the trophy and prize support from the event. He fought well and played hard and is truly deserving of the prize.

The only other thing I can do is offer my deepest apologies to any individuals that came to this event and felt they didn't get their fair shot. I sincerely do apologize to you for any wrong you feel victim of. I know it costs a lot to go to these events, I spent a hefty sum myself coming out to this one. And I know that feeling like you got cheated hurts and can even make some question whether it is worth making the trip again. I can only pray that what I am saying here will fall on open ears and hearts and you will know that these events are still worth going to and such a great time to have been able to experience.

I have held to the motto for years in my life that "I don't judge people by the mistakes they make in life, but how they deal with those mistakes." I am hoping that I have dealt with this mistake as best I can. I hope to have a chance to come back next year and make a good showing for both my team and the Feast.

As far as my games with Kenny. I had such an amazing two games with Kenny this weekend and I refuse to believe there was EVER any intent behind whatever may have been found in regards to his dice. He was an amazing opponent both time we played and I would love the opportunity to play again. Hope to see you again Kenny. Sorry about this weekend.

Joshua.Dearth wrote:Hello,

I was the one with the list issues and I would like to say something in regards.

I have watched the backlash over the past 24 hours in regards to the Feast of Blades Invitational this year and feel that at this point I needed to step up and say a couple of things.

I contacted the FoB staff in regards to what I was going to run for the invitational this year a couple of times to make sure that I was running my list the way they wanted. I know that 7th edition has created a situation where there is an exorbitant amount of information and sources out there to choose from when building a list and it can get confusing.

When in the 6th round the head judge brought it to my attention that the list I was running was not a valid list as per their rules, I asked what they wanted me to do about it. I was told that I would need to modify my list to make it legal. I asked how they wanted me to modify my list that they would be comfortable with the changes and was told to remove enough from the list to add one troop choice to the list from the Red Scorpions chapter to make the Red Scorpions character I was using a legal allied detachment. So I made the appropriate changes to my list.

I took a couple of minutes to ask the head judges whether they felt it would be better overall for the tournament if I stepped down and forfeited right then and was told that the changes that were made were done so I can play it out, and that I should play if I wanted to play. I am not going to lie when I say that I really wanted to play and so with their endorsement I played on. I came to this tournament with the intent to play a legal list and thought I was. Obviously there was a miscommunication somewhere before the tournament occurred as I thought I was doing so. It was never my intent to take advantage of the tournament or to "cheat" in any way.

The fact that now the integrity of the Feast of Blades staff has been called into question along with myself, my team, and others has made if very clear to me that maintaining that integrity and the integrity of this community is far more important than a pretty trophy (and it is pretty) and a couple boxes of Eldar that I got as a prize.

I feel that the only thing I can do to assist in trying to fix the issue that has arisen as a result of this past weekend is to step down as the winner of the Feast of Blades and give my prize support to Vince (I can't remember his last name) from El Paso, TX. He was running a beautiful Daemon list led by the Forgeworld Lord of Change (the 999 point one). If by chance anyone on any of these forums knows how to contact Vince and let him know to get in contact with me I would be more than happy to send him the trophy and prize support from the event. He fought well and played hard and is truly deserving of the prize.

The only other thing I can do is offer my deepest apologies to any individuals that came to this event and felt they didn't get their fair shot. I sincerely do apologize to you for any wrong you feel victim of. I know it costs a lot to go to these events, I spent a hefty sum myself coming out to this one. And I know that feeling like you got cheated hurts and can even make some question whether it is worth making the trip again. I can only pray that what I am saying here will fall on open ears and hearts and you will know that these events are still worth going to and such a great time to have been able to experience.

I have held to the motto for years in my life that "I don't judge people by the mistakes they make in life, but how they deal with those mistakes." I am hoping that I have dealt with this mistake as best I can. I hope to have a chance to come back next year and make a good showing for both my team and the Feast.

As far as my games with Kenny. I had such an amazing two games with Kenny this weekend and I refuse to believe there was EVER any intent behind whatever may have been found in regards to his dice. He was an amazing opponent both time we played and I would love the opportunity to play again. Hope to see you again Kenny. Sorry about this weekend.

Very decent of you Josh! I would love to know your exact list, and why it wasnt legal.

Kimchi - He ran no heralds in his list and no grimoire, so it was not as much of an issue as it may seem.

Also, 2/120 dice with this issue?

Considering Kenny's previous history and what people are saying about him, i would say it was an honest mistake.

So far every person that has met or played him has said he is a great guy and that he is more about having a laugh than winning.

So to be honest, i would have given him a pass as its really does not add up.
His life is built on his reputation, so why risk everything for 2 dodgy dice?

Its not as if 2 dice were enough to influence an entire game when there are over 100 in the pot.





However, this is why i prefer to open a new cube at the start of any tournie as it saves any issues.

This was a 1500 point tournament? Wow....

I have weighted dice I bought off the internet some time ago, along with matching normal dice. Dice can roll high or low. Unless you are really looking at them, you won't notice anything weird in the rolls.

That being said.....I injured my hand a number of years ago. I can't use small dice....well I can but it involves using my off hand which becomes annoying. I almost always make custom dice for my army. It would take a TO or an oppnent a few seconds to determine if dice are valid or not, and be cheaper in the long run for the TO ( ordering dice transporting, distributing etc).

@Joshua.Dearth

I cant agree more with you, we had some battles! I look forward to many more. I'm sure you will have to beg Vince to take the award from you. He is a stand up guy!

I want to say thanks to everyone who has my back on this issue! One day i hope invite you all to enjoy a beer and a shot.
PS: even if you didn't have my back on you are invited.

-Kenny

Did any flying armies do good? How about SW?

I may take up the offer of a drink if i ever cross the water

Never been to the US in my life, but seeing all of the tournie stuff posted across Dakka is enough to make me want to.

The tournaments in the US really do seem to show up the UK as there are rarely any over here, let alone on the same scale.

So i may have to arrange a holiday to get a few games in

I mean seriously he had two dice out of 120, one of which was left on the ground and that is the only way it was found to be bad dice.

On top of that anyone who played him never saw him looking for specific dice to roll.

Yea, legit mistake IMO, I honestly dont see how it could have possibly had such a huge impact on the game if he randomly grabbed those dice.

Edit: Although it doesn't mean much I got your back Kenny. Love the podcast, love the live stream keep going strong.

 Jackal wrote:
I may take up the offer of a drink if i ever cross the water

Never been to the US in my life, but seeing all of the tournie stuff posted across Dakka is enough to make me want to.

The tournaments in the US really do seem to show up the UK as there are rarely any over here, let alone on the same scale.

So i may have to arrange a holiday to get a few games in

You come over here for one and I will go over there for one!

Sounds like a deal to me then Kenny

Just need to find a decent tournament over here 1st.

That and i need to finish off my 2nd ed. nids army (which weighs a bloody ton!) before i can have a proper game again.

arjak15 wrote:
Did any flying armies do good? How about SW?

There was a Space Wolves list w/ Drop Pods, but I don't think it was top half. It didn't have the new flyer. There wasn't a whole lot of flyers, most of them were represented by two lists - one guy brought a Vendetta/Valkyrie/Vulture that I believe contained 6 total fliers and he finished pretty high, and of course Josh's list contained 4 Storm Talons and he made it to the top table (as mentioned in this thread). There were many Daemon Princes and the such, including Bel'akor, but it was actually a fairly thin field as far as fliers are concerned.

What about multi-detachments? I know 1500 points limits things pretty hard, but did many people take 3+ detachments? Were Inquisitors a frequent include like they were at the last Adepticon?

What kind of representation did Lords of War have?

 Reecius wrote:
Takes a lot to step up and do something like this, Josh. Well done, especially considering all of the circumstances. I had a blast at FoB, it was fun, well run, and I plan on coming back again next year.

We all know you where too busy drinking yourself into a coma reece, we know you didnt remember it.

Who was running the green tide, and what was the rest of his list like?

 yakface wrote:

What about multi-detachments? I know 1500 points limits things pretty hard, but did many people take 3+ detachments? Were Inquisitors a frequent include like they were at the last Adepticon?

What kind of representation did Lords of War have?

Ditto, I was really surprised when I heard fob was 1500pts. So far it seems the craziest thing has been the 999pt fw chaos dude.

 yakface wrote:

What about multi-detachments? I know 1500 points limits things pretty hard, but did many people take 3+ detachments? Were Inquisitors a frequent include like they were at the last Adepticon?

What kind of representation did Lords of War have?

The tournament had a 1+1 format, so nobody had more than two detachment. I don't think I saw a single inquisition detachment. There were maybe 5-10 total LoW (including Knights). But only one titan, don't think there were any baneblades and there were no ctan shards.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fxeni wrote:
Who was running the green tide, and what was the rest of his list like?

I believe that orksq were tasty, and it was that formation and some grots in a bastion I believe.