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DeviousDonut wrote:
I'd be happy to. The flyrants obviously fly forward and do their thing if I get first turn. Go for the obvious first blood rhino transport or some equivalent. Then just harass and get rear armor basically the rest of the game. The rest of the army moves slowly forward in a giant deathstar. The Dima Malanthrope Tervigon and 2 carnifexes all move pretty close to each other and the tervigon spawn goes in front to ensure everyone has a 3+ cover save. I bubble wrap them with the termagaunts who daisy chain across the whole board to any objectives I want. I then use the gargoyles as either a second daisy chaining screen or a tarpit depending on what i'm playing. The screens prevent my star from being assaulted and gives everyone 3+cover or 2+ if im in ruins. Then when i'm across the board the screens leave to tie down threats or grab objectives while the malanthrope dima and 2 carni's wreak havoc, the tervigon normally sits at midfield providing a little synapse and support.

Do you find that the meta moving towards elite units and vehicles and away from infantry give you an advantage running a high model count army?

Yeah definitely, the amount of Str 6 shooting with the devourers really destroys most elite armies. The only exceptions are high toughness targets like wraithknights and dreadknights, but that's what the dimachaeron is for. The gargoyles and gaunts are to tie down anything my army can't handle, or at least tie them down long enough for the dima to eat them, then everyone consolidates towards objectives.

So how did the narrative event go?

I don't give a single gak about the cheating discussion in here.

Have we finally gotten the actual results? I'd like to see what lists did best.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I don't give a single gak about the cheating discussion in here.

Have we finally gotten the actual results? I'd like to see what lists did best.

I requested the results, so if they get sent to me I'll post them on here.

Right on, thanks dude.

 pretre wrote:

 Leth wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Well, 2 dice out of 120 are important depending on the specific roll they are used for. Not that I'm saying that happened, but something to think about. If I have a die that only rolls 6's and I only use it for one die roll per game, that can be a big deal (first turn/seize).

That implies knowledge that those specific dice were cheaty dice, considering that one of the two dice was left under the table I highly doubt that is the case.

You've never left your car keys in a chair or at the bar? I don't know this guy from Adam and don't have a stake in it, but saying that only .2% of his performance was increased is voodoo statistics and not representative of what 2 loaded dice in a pile of dice means. If you're going to cheat smart (and deniably), you don't make your whole pile roll better than average. You use a couple chosen dice and only use them when they will give you the most benefit.

In other words, if someone has a pile of 10,000 dice and one loaded one, that gives him a substantive advantage because they know that they can influence any roll they want by using that one die.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Next Level wrote:
I agree, and that is why i feel like a cheater. Because i cannot say with any certainty that this did not happen. I have a sense of dice superstition. I like rolling medium dice for most thingd, small dice for leadership tests, and big dice for important things like one off things,and all of them for attacks! I can only say i am sorry , it was not intentional and i will help try to create a dice standard.

See and this is why I have a tendency to believe him now. So far Kenny has owned up to it and been an adult about it. So either it was really an accident or he's really convincing.

Moral of this whole story: Don't buy second-hand dice.

I don't believe the excuse for a minute. We all have favorite dice that we break out because we think they're lucky, thinking about all the times I've handled my dice (even as a casual player) it's unfathomable that someone couldn't notice at all for months.

 TheSilo wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Leth wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Well, 2 dice out of 120 are important depending on the specific roll they are used for. Not that I'm saying that happened, but something to think about. If I have a die that only rolls 6's and I only use it for one die roll per game, that can be a big deal (first turn/seize).

That implies knowledge that those specific dice were cheaty dice, considering that one of the two dice was left under the table I highly doubt that is the case.

You've never left your car keys in a chair or at the bar? I don't know this guy from Adam and don't have a stake in it, but saying that only .2% of his performance was increased is voodoo statistics and not representative of what 2 loaded dice in a pile of dice means. If you're going to cheat smart (and deniably), you don't make your whole pile roll better than average. You use a couple chosen dice and only use them when they will give you the most benefit.

In other words, if someone has a pile of 10,000 dice and one loaded one, that gives him a substantive advantage because they know that they can influence any roll they want by using that one die.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Next Level wrote:
I agree, and that is why i feel like a cheater. Because i cannot say with any certainty that this did not happen. I have a sense of dice superstition. I like rolling medium dice for most thingd, small dice for leadership tests, and big dice for important things like one off things,and all of them for attacks! I can only say i am sorry , it was not intentional and i will help try to create a dice standard.

See and this is why I have a tendency to believe him now. So far Kenny has owned up to it and been an adult about it. So either it was really an accident or he's really convincing.

Moral of this whole story: Don't buy second-hand dice.

I don't believe the excuse for a minute. We all have favorite dice that we break out because we think they're lucky, thinking about all the times I've handled my dice (even as a casual player) it's unfathomable that someone couldn't notice at all for months.

I 2nd that. Everyone knows their dice and where they came from. "feel like a cheater", No! Kenny is a cheater.

I don't examine my dice nor have I, and it's kind of ridiculous that someone would expect that I have. I have a bag of dice I've been using for years. When I buy dice, I sort of expect them to be OK, as I do pretty much anything that I purchase, especially something so ubiquitous as dice. I dump them out of the container they are in and straight into my bag with all the other dice and do so without first examining each die for efficacy.

So, let's not pretend, for whatever reason that we feel the need to persecute, that someone should be closely examining all the dice they buy and that it isn't somehow possible for someone to buy and have dice in their dice bag that are deformed, tampered, or otherwise defective.

Bad gak can and does happen to really good people, all day, every day. So, shouldn't we at least require a pattern of behavior before we condemn someone? Wouldn't you want the same for yourself if bad gak happened to you?

I would encourage we remember,

Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Wiser words, there are none, because when the bell next tolls, it might very well be for you.

Saying everyone knows their dice isn't true. I never look at any of my dice if I buy a cube from Chessex or else where. I open them and use them, For all I know any of those dice could have been made defective and I would know it. A lot of places that sell dice typically have a box of random dice that you can buy singles or random amount that fits in a cup. I've played Kenny plenty of times when he was living here in Colorado, nothing Fishy ever. At Adepticon when I see him, nothing fishy. Like others have said if you are randomly pulling dice out of a box and tossing them, I highly doubt you are finding "that" dice every time.

And I thought this thread had run its course. How foolish.

I know Kenny and he would never intentionally bring loaded dice - he is first a great guy and second not stupid.

Celestine4thewin wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I don't give a single gak about the cheating discussion in here.

Have we finally gotten the actual results? I'd like to see what lists did best.

I requested the results, so if they get sent to me I'll post them on here.

Did this ever happen?

 Dozer Blades wrote:
I know Kenny and he would never intentionally bring loaded dice - he is first a great guy and second not stupid.

People do stupid things whether intentional or not. At this point its best just to move on and kenny will just have to try to repair whatever damage his reputation got from this incident.

And I agree that i thought this was done with

Thedecay wrote:

Celestine4thewin wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I don't give a single gak about the cheating discussion in here.

Have we finally gotten the actual results? I'd like to see what lists did best.

I requested the results, so if they get sent to me I'll post them on here.

Did this ever happen?

Torrent of fire totally crashed at Feast. All results had to be decided with a back up spreadsheet. The results will be slow be made available.

 Bahkara wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
I know Kenny and he would never intentionally bring loaded dice - he is first a great guy and second not stupid.

People do stupid things whether intentional or not. At this point its best just to move on and kenny will just have to try to repair whatever damage his reputation got from this incident.

And I agree that i thought this was done with

is not loaded dice but dice(s) with two 5s and no 2s. I don't know why people defend kenny with loaded dice when that not the issue in the first place.

SOOOOOOOO what were the Top 16 lists?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
SOOOOOOOO what were the Top 16 lists?

All I can say is bombard FoB w/ requests for results, because they haven't so much as acknowledged a single one of my questions/requests. Kind of irritated by the complete lack of anything from them.

This is just ridiculous, not only are they're no battle reports but there's not even a rough shod top 3 list up.

It might be because the top two lists were the guy with the cheating dice and the guy with the illegal list, lol. I think they both gave up the top spot after the tournament to the third ranked guy so its all a cock up at this point. Most likely just going to scratch the 2014 tournament off the record books. Nothing to see here. I SAID MOVE ALONG, SIR.

Hah, it's stupid that people are berating a guy for essentially not adding in a 50 point scout unit to his army. Clearly the guy won mainly due to skill/ army composition.


So far I've deduced his list to be...

4 storm talons

captain cassius

5 T. war vets

wall of matrys with quad gun/ drop pod with honour guard

white scars chapter master - et al.

2 units of 5 bikes with grav

Sevrin loth

 iddy00711 wrote:
Hah, it's stupid that people are berating a guy for essentially not adding in a 50 point scout unit to his army. Clearly the guy won mainly due to skill/ army composition.


So far I've deduced his list to be...

4 storm talons

captain cassius

5 T. war vets

wall of matrys with quad gun/ drop pod with honour guard

white scars chapter master - et al.

2 units of 5 bikes with grav

Sevrin loth

No, it wasn't just the scouts.

His list was illegal because it used 3 detachments (max 2):

Tyrannic War Vets
White Scars
Red Scorpions (or whatever Chapter Loth is)

His army also wasn't illegal as Sevrin Loth can be included in any Space Marines army http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/B/badabupdate-v2.pdf as an hq choice and also was approved by Feast prior to the event. IMO, feast made a bad call in the last round by making him change his list.

He may only be included if it is the same Chapter. Otherwise, you have to ally him in just as if you had 2 separate chapters.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
His army also wasn't illegal as Sevrin Loth can be included in any Space Marines army http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/B/badabupdate-v2.pdf as an hq choice and also was approved by Feast prior to the event. IMO, feast made a bad call in the last round by making him change his list.

Only if it is a Red Scorpion detachment (Chapter Tactics rules, Severin's rules). It was illegal.

No the rules are:

Sevrin Loth is a HQ choice for a Codex: Space Marines army or...

Can this be interpreted another way? Perhaps but regardless Feast approved the list therefore it was legal for the event.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
No the rules are:

Sevrin Loth is a HQ choice for a Codex: Space Marines army or...

Can this be interpreted another way? Perhaps but regardless Feast approved the list therefore it was legal for the event.

And by the SM codex, named characters can only be taken in detachments with matching chapter tactics.

It's the same reason you can't have tigerius lead a white scars army...

 NecronLord3 wrote:
No the rules are:

Sevrin Loth is a HQ choice for a Codex: Space Marines army or...

Can this be interpreted another way? Perhaps but regardless Feast approved the list therefore it was legal for the event.

Let me quote the rule that you are missing:

Each character in this update has been assigned the appropriate Chapter Tactics and, as with the special characters presented in Codex: Space Marines, may be included as part of any detachment with the same Chapter Tactic.

Regardless his list was approved by feast prior to the event.