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 beardman3000 wrote:
buying these ones, since I just got into it in 7th. but stupidly excited to see if more units can become more useful. and Shuppet.

5 deathspitters

deepstrike, fearless, instinctive fire.

has drifting death

when it lands on impassable terrain, move it the minimum distance where it will be fine. deploy up to 6" away, but not 1" near enemy units (can not really mishap)

can upgrade with barbed strangler or vennom cannon for 25 pts.

Thanx! I am foolishly cheered by this rumor!

I'm sorry, but podding in Pyrovores and melee-Nids were all introduced in 5th(which was much more friendly to assault units), and they all were abandoned/ignored. Are 3 Pyrovores that much more effective than a Devilfex? Or twenty Devilgants? What are you going to deepstrike next to that isn't going to either shoot you(Grav-Cents/Bikes), assault, or just ran away(Wraithknight/Wave Serpent)? Why have things suddenly changed in an edition that hampers assault?

tag8833 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
He said reliable, not rerolleable.

Oh, How is it reliable?

Deepstrike a Venom in with them and a Mawloc / Gargs / whatever in front of them, and GtG.

1) MC's cannot GTG
2) Venoms can't DS unless in a pod which is a pricey upgrade.
3) You are ignoring reserve rolls and scatter which are highly unreliable.

1.) MCs can GtG.
2.) I obviously know Vopes don't have DS so I'm obviously referring to taking a spore for them, and as you'll see from my previous post I don't see the pods as at all inneffecient, being very well costed for their firepower, as I explained earlier
3.) The scatter on the Pods are fairly reliable, as are reserve rolls with comms, it's 40k this far more reliable than expecting one to walk up the board into optimal combat
4.) stop being such a downer

 Frozocrone wrote:
Pyrovores might see the table now...still better Elites to use but they suddenly became more viable

It looks like T5 W6 4+ so it would be great at plonking on an objective or at least drawing fire away from your army if the opponent wants an objective.

And it moves too! So you can get to that objective if you DS out too far.

Or be like 'nah, I feel like that objective'

What come to my mind is "Idrop off a unit of Termagants, then drift over here and control two VP points...let me see if I get extra points for that. "

 SHUPPET wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
He said reliable, not rerolleable.

Oh, How is it reliable?

Deepstrike a Venom in with them and a Mawloc / Gargs / whatever in front of them, and GtG.

1) MC's cannot GTG
2) Venoms can't DS unless in a pod which is a pricey upgrade.
3) You are ignoring reserve rolls and scatter which are highly unreliable.

1.) MCs can GtG.
2.) I'm obviously countin them as I a pod, and as you'll see from my previous post I don't see the pods as at all inneffecient, being very well costed for their firepower.
3.) The scatter on the Pods are fairly reliable, as are reserve rolls with comms, it's 40k this far more reliable than expecting one to walk up the board into optimal combat
4.) stop being such a downer

Aren't our MCs Fearless, so they can't go to ground?

 SHUPPET wrote:
Whats the WS / BS on the Toxicrene? looks like it may be playable now

3/3.. I guess that is what Paraxium is for. "Tyranids the ultimate Bioengineered death machine...vs Grots and Tau anyway" But I can see drop podding in a Toxicrene or a Dima as a very fun option. It might even work well in Tourneys. Heck it's almost enough to make me wish I had a Swarmlord. I guess that is why they sell magnets.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I'm sorry, but podding in Pyrovores and melee-Nids were all introduced in 5th(which was much more friendly to assault units), and they all were abandoned/ignored. Are 3 Pyrovores that much more effective than a Devilfex? Or twenty Devilgants? What are you going to deepstrike next to that isn't going to either shoot you(Grav-Cents/Bikes), assault, or just ran away(Wraithknight/Wave Serpent)? Why have things suddenly changed in an edition that hampers assault?

For starters they had less rules, worse stats, and cost 150% of the current price. Secondly, they contested the elite slot with the very most important units in the dex, including Hive Guard, Zopes, Doom, and Ymgarls. H'll Venomthropes were useful back then and they couldn't even find a slot. Thirdly, pods were less justifiable on their own merits, being in scoring blobs of tank but offering very little in the way of BLASTING CANNONS IN EVERY DIRECTION, with the new model actually offering quite cost effective firepower for the price.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I'm sorry, but podding in Pyrovores and melee-Nids were all introduced in 5th(which was much more friendly to assault units), and they all were abandoned/ignored. Are 3 Pyrovores that much more effective than a Devilfex? Or twenty Devilgants? What are you going to deepstrike next to that isn't going to either shoot you(Grav-Cents/Bikes), assault, or just ran away(Wraithknight/Wave Serpent)? Why have things suddenly changed in an edition that hampers assault?

To me, it isn't really about the Assault. You can run assaulty dimas or you can run shooty dakkafexes and/or pyrovores. Rather it is about how to better Overload your opponents and thus in doing so, you control the board and the Movement of your opponents. It's basically what drop pod marines do to us. Control the Movement phase and you can dictate how the game will play out. Control the Movement phase and you will have an inherent advantage in objectives-based games.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I'm sorry, but podding in Pyrovores and melee-Nids were all introduced in 5th(which was much more friendly to assault units), and they all were abandoned/ignored. Are 3 Pyrovores that much more effective than a Devilfex? Or twenty Devilgants? What are you going to deepstrike next to that isn't going to either shoot you(Grav-Cents/Bikes), assault, or just ran away(Wraithknight/Wave Serpent)? Why have things suddenly changed in an edition that hampers assault?

For starters they had less rules, worse stats, and cost 150% of the current price. Secondly, they contested the elite slot with the very most important units in the dex, including Hive Guard, Zopes, Doom, and Ymgarls. H'll Venomthropes were useful back then and they couldn't even find a slot. Thirdly, pods were less justifiable on their own merits, being in scoring blobs of tank but offering very little in the way of BLASTING CANNONS IN EVERY DIRECTION, with the new model actually offering quite cost effective firepower for the price.

The Pod is not the issue at all here- 40pts to add deep-strike plus a contesting MC that could crush vehicles. I want to know why paying 75pts for deepstrike helps melee units currently.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
He said reliable, not rerolleable.

Oh, How is it reliable?

Deepstrike a Venom in with them and a Mawloc / Gargs / whatever in front of them, and GtG.

1) MC's cannot GTG
2) Venoms can't DS unless in a pod which is a pricey upgrade.
3) You are ignoring reserve rolls and scatter which are highly unreliable.

1.) MCs can GtG.
2.) I'm obviously countin them as I a pod, and as you'll see from my previous post I don't see the pods as at all inneffecient, being very well costed for their firepower.
3.) The scatter on the Pods are fairly reliable, as are reserve rolls with comms, it's 40k this far more reliable than expecting one to walk up the board into optimal combat
4.) stop being such a downer

Aren't our MCs Fearless, so they can't go to ground?

The Dima (who my original statement was about, although it's not visible in the quotes) is not fearless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I'm sorry, but podding in Pyrovores and melee-Nids were all introduced in 5th(which was much more friendly to assault units), and they all were abandoned/ignored. Are 3 Pyrovores that much more effective than a Devilfex? Or twenty Devilgants? What are you going to deepstrike next to that isn't going to either shoot you(Grav-Cents/Bikes), assault, or just ran away(Wraithknight/Wave Serpent)? Why have things suddenly changed in an edition that hampers assault?

For starters they had less rules, worse stats, and cost 150% of the current price. Secondly, they contested the elite slot with the very most important units in the dex, including Hive Guard, Zopes, Doom, and Ymgarls. H'll Venomthropes were useful back then and they couldn't even find a slot. Thirdly, pods were less justifiable on their own merits, being in scoring blobs of tank but offering very little in the way of BLASTING CANNONS IN EVERY DIRECTION, with the new model actually offering quite cost effective firepower for the price.

The Pod is not the issue at all here- 40pts to add deep-strike plus a contesting MC that could crush vehicles. I want to know why paying 75pts for deepstrike helps melee units currently.

Pyrovore is pretty versatile, melee being an upside, the selling point being the fact that it nukes a squad preferably in ruins or cover with S5 auto hits, somewhat like Biovores except more risqué, aggressive, hard hitting, and not in your HQ slot.

I'm sure you don't need explanation of how the Dima / Dakkafex are good in these things?

Someone want to break out the rulebook quotes here with regards to MC's and going-to-ground?

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Does adding Deepstrike to a Dimachaeron(or Any melee unit) really improve it that much? Nobody's ever said much about deep-striking shrikes, trygons, or melee-flyrants. I know I don't have as much experience, but I'm concerned this is just shiny new model syndrome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Mucolids- Giant spore mines. Can assault flyers(hits side armor). S8 Ap3. +1 Strength for each mine.
Sporocyst- Infiltrates, can't move. Synapse units within 6" add 6" to their synapse range. Spawns 3 spore mines, or once per game one mucolid. Has five deathspitters(instinctive fire). Can upgrade like tyrannocyte.

Spoor cyst absolutely useless. For the price of a Malanthrope it gives you an unreliable buff to other Synapse (not better than, you know, actual Synapse which it does not freaking have) and spawns mines with 6" of itself. WOW TERRIFYING.

The Mucolids I'm unsure on. Is that T5 W3? Actually might be very worthwhile DSing in for minimal points, excellent board control and not easily wiped by Bolters like spore mines are.

HArd to tell, but I forgot to mention Shrouded.

Yeah, I don't know how it will play out...But I see it as Fortifications that I can Infiltrate. Not going to be a "must have" but it just might be a meta changing option.

I'm extremely happy about this. Losing the pod was one of my biggest upsets with the new dex.

pg 67:

They may never Go to Ground, voluntarily or otherwise.

pinecone77 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Whats the WS / BS on the Toxicrene? looks like it may be playable now

3/3.. I guess that is what Paraxium is for. "Tyranids the ultimate Bioengineered death machine...vs Grots and Tau anyway" But I can see drop podding in a Toxicrene or a Dima as a very fun option. It might even work well in Tourneys. Heck it's almost enough to make me wish I had a Swarmlord. I guess that is why they sell magnets.

Whats a Paraxium?

Also, Swarmy still too over costed. As jy2 said, he's just a worse Dima, his arguable benefits are not worth 120 pts

 Frozocrone wrote:
pg 67:

They may never Go to Ground, voluntarily or otherwise.

Thanks.

 Iechine wrote:
I'm extremely happy about this. Losing the pod was one of my biggest upsets with the new dex.

We all are.

It's like Christmas came early.

 Frozocrone wrote:
pg 67:

They may never Go to Ground, voluntarily or otherwise.

Ah. Maybe I'm wrong on this. Don't have my book on me and Dima is the only non fearless MC in the dex so it's never been relevant to me before now. I googled before I posted and all I found was people saying mcs CAN gtg in 7th, so damn

rigeld2 wrote:
I didn't see a rule saying they can't...
But they'll explode when used right, so that part isn't relevant. The relevant thing is a S8 AP3 hit against anything (including Flyers) that gets charged.

That and a 30 point investment into minimum troops.

Still useful for Mealstrom...I score this turn, if you contest I blow up in your face. Come and get me If you're hard enough. I can always tunnel in some Rippers later, if needed.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I'm sorry, but podding in Pyrovores and melee-Nids were all introduced in 5th(which was much more friendly to assault units), and they all were abandoned/ignored. Are 3 Pyrovores that much more effective than a Devilfex? Or twenty Devilgants? What are you going to deepstrike next to that isn't going to either shoot you(Grav-Cents/Bikes), assault, or just ran away(Wraithknight/Wave Serpent)? Why have things suddenly changed in an edition that hampers assault?

The main reason assault units weren't popular in 5th was the old vehicle rules. If they moved you had to hit them on 5's or 6's and even if you landed a blow most non-monstrous creature units couldn't really do much to wreck a vehicle reliably. Once the charge was complete, the vehicle would then just tank-shock or otherwise go about its merry way and blow the offending melee units away with a flamer from the top hatch. Shooting units were pretty much the only things able to open up the tin-cans so the rest of the army could clean up.

In 7th, things are far more friendly to assault units in that one regard. Hitting on 3's most of the time and HPs mean even a unit of AG gaunts will generally wreck a vehicle on the turn they charge it. It is harder to get the charge overall, but if you deploy within a few inches of the target you only need to weather one turn of shooting opposed to 2-3 turns (very possible if you have multiple large units arriving at once - something will get through and escape can be blocked off).

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
He said reliable, not rerolleable.

Oh, How is it reliable?

Deepstrike a Venom in with them and a Mawloc / Gargs / whatever in front of them, and GtG.

1) MC's cannot GTG
2) Venoms can't DS unless in a pod which is a pricey upgrade.
3) You are ignoring reserve rolls and scatter which are highly unreliable.

1.) MCs can GtG.
2.) I'm obviously countin them as I a pod, and as you'll see from my previous post I don't see the pods as at all inneffecient, being very well costed for their firepower.
3.) The scatter on the Pods are fairly reliable, as are reserve rolls with comms, it's 40k this far more reliable than expecting one to walk up the board into optimal combat
4.) stop being such a downer

Aren't our MCs Fearless, so they can't go to ground?

Not All of them...

Spore Cysts seem pretty good. They are infiltrating, shrouded LoS blockers that can deny area around objectives. And they give you free annoying units! They are not super crazy, but could give us some more options.

All these new units will definitely allow a greater variety of Tyranid play styles.

Wow, this opens up a ton of options! Honestly I'm thinking Hive Guard come out big on this one as well. The ability to drop into side/rear armor makes their damage potential skyrocket. Right now I'm thinking of bringing back large termagant units and maybe even Tervigons. They can spawn after disembarking, which is flat out nasty... Also, we are now amazing at Maelstrom missions!

Units I think went from bad/mediocre to viable/good:

Good:

Dimachaeron
Hive Guard
Zoanthropes
Tervigons
Tyrannofex
Termagants

Decent:

Melee fex
Toxicrene
Haruspex
Hormagaunts
Genestealers
Pyrovores
Lictors
Warriors
Tyranid Primes
Tyrant Guard

Edit:

The WD pics promise a "Psychic terror" next week... and Zoanthropes/Venomthropes are now off the GW store. I'm thinking a 3 part kit with those two and... the...

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
pg 67:

They may never Go to Ground, voluntarily or otherwise.

Ah. Maybe I'm wrong on this. Don't have my book on me and Dima is the only non fearless MC in the dex so it's never been relevant to me before now. I googled before I posted and all I found was people saying mcs CAN gtg in 7th, so damn

They used to be able to in 6th.

Still, with Intervening Models and Venom, that's a 3+ cover to go with the Armour Save. Deploy from the Tyrannocyte into cover with Venom and have a 2+ cover, then just leap out on your turn before you charge (re-rolling if need be)

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I'm sorry, but podding in Pyrovores and melee-Nids were all introduced in 5th(which was much more friendly to assault units), and they all were abandoned/ignored. Are 3 Pyrovores that much more effective than a Devilfex? Or twenty Devilgants? What are you going to deepstrike next to that isn't going to either shoot you(Grav-Cents/Bikes), assault, or just ran away(Wraithknight/Wave Serpent)? Why have things suddenly changed in an edition that hampers assault?

For starters they had less rules, worse stats, and cost 150% of the current price. Secondly, they contested the elite slot with the very most important units in the dex, including Hive Guard, Zopes, Doom, and Ymgarls. H'll Venomthropes were useful back then and they couldn't even find a slot. Thirdly, pods were less justifiable on their own merits, being in scoring blobs of tank but offering very little in the way of BLASTING CANNONS IN EVERY DIRECTION, with the new model actually offering quite cost effective firepower for the price.

The Pod is not the issue at all here- 40pts to add deep-strike plus a contesting MC that could crush vehicles. I want to know why paying 75pts for deepstrike helps melee units currently.

Because they don't have to get shot crawling across the board? You have 1 turn to shoot and then they are on you. If they run away, then you have board control.

Aside from that, nowhere else in the book are you getting 5 venom cannons, or barbed stranglers for 100pts. That's a bargain for nids.

 AdeptSister wrote:
Spore Cysts seem pretty good. They are infiltrating, shrouded LoS blockers that can deny area around objectives. And they give you free annoying units! They are not super crazy, but could give us some more options.

All these new units will definitely allow a greater variety of Tyranid play styles.

Its the Mucolids(big spore mines) that have shrouded. Sporocysts just infiltrate with five Deathspitters/Venom Cannons/Barbed Stranglers and buff synapse units. And make mines of course.

 SHUPPET wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Whats the WS / BS on the Toxicrene? looks like it may be playable now

3/3.. I guess that is what Paraxium is for. "Tyranids the ultimate Bioengineered death machine...vs Grots and Tau anyway" But I can see drop podding in a Toxicrene or a Dima as a very fun option. It might even work well in Tourneys. Heck it's almost enough to make me wish I had a Swarmlord. I guess that is why they sell magnets.

Whats a Paraxium?

Also, Swarmy still too over costed. As jy2 said, he's just a worse Dima, his arguable benefits are not worth 120 pts

Sorry Typing is not my best skill. Swarmy can give PE to the instinctive shooting can't she? And it is a big bad Power of the Hive Mind source of WCs. Vs fools who depend on MCs (Wraithknights and Riptides mostly) a Deepstriking Swarmy could be very frightening. Though I suspect you'd need to pod in something to screen with...like say 30 Spinegaunts? (with or without Devilgaunts to flavor) I admit it is very unlikely to be a winning strategy...but science requires experimentation, that is what makes it different from philosophy.

 SHUPPET wrote:

2.) I'm obviously countin them as I a pod, an
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I'm sorry, but podding in Pyrovores and melee-Nids were all introduced in 5th(which was much more friendly to assault units), and they all were abandoned/ignored. Are 3 Pyrovores that much more effective than a Devilfex? Or twenty Devilgants? What are you going to deepstrike next to that isn't going to either shoot you(Grav-Cents/Bikes), assault, or just ran away(Wraithknight/Wave Serpent)? Why have things suddenly changed in an edition that hampers assault?

For starters they had less rules, worse stats, and cost 150% of the current price. Secondly, they contested the elite slot with the very most important units in the dex, including Hive Guard, Zopes, Doom, and Ymgarls. H'll Venomthropes were useful back then and they couldn't even find a slot. Thirdly, pods were less justifiable on their own merits, being in scoring blobs of tank but offering very little in the way of BLASTING CANNONS IN EVERY DIRECTION, with the new model actually offering quite cost effective firepower for the price.

The Pod is not the issue at all here- 40pts to add deep-strike plus a contesting MC that could crush vehicles. I want to know why paying 75pts for deepstrike helps melee units currently.

Pyrovore is pretty versatile, melee being an upside, the selling point being the fact that it nukes a squad preferably in ruins or cover with S5 auto hits, somewhat like Biovores except more risqué, aggressive, hard hitting, and not in your HQ slot.

I'm sure you don't need explanation of how the Dima / Dakkafex are good in these things?

Dakkafexes are obvious- is that one turn sitting in the face of your opponent going to help the Dimachareon? I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on that.

To be fair, The Swarmlord would help in bringing the Tyrannocytes into play with the Alien Cunning rule (+1 to reserve rolls).

Viable? Probably not in comparison to the Flyrant. But if you wanted to go Pod Heavy it could be something to give some consideration too

 jifel wrote:
Wow, this opens up a ton of options! Honestly I'm thinking Hive Guard come out big on this one as well. The ability to drop into side/rear armor makes their damage potential skyrocket. Right now I'm thinking of bringing back large termagant units and maybe even Tervigons. They can spawn after disembarking, which is flat out nasty... Also, we are now amazing at Maelstrom missions!

Units I think went from bad/mediocre to viable/good:

Good:

Dimachaeron
Hive Guard
Zoanthropes
Tervigons
Tyrannofex
Termagants

Decent:

Melee fex
Toxicrene
Haruspex
Hormagaunts
Genestealers
Pyrovores
Lictors
Warriors
Tyranid Primes
Tyrant Guard

Not sure how Lictors benefit from this at all except for possibly guiding in other units, which has generally been decided as p crappy idea. Haruspex is still wildly outclassed for it points and you'd be better off with a Dakkafex 99 times out of 100.
Tervigons benefit very little, this does little for them that outflanking does not already do.

Hive Guard I see very little use for in a pod, ok 3 S8 hits on rear armour, assuming Av10 that's 2-3 glances. For 5 points cheaper 20 Devilgants get 7 glances and make use of your troop slot, and threaten a whole lot more other things than HG. I don't think there is anywhere near enough FA14/RA12 to justify HG as that's literally the only time they are more useful in a pod than either walking HG, or Devilgants. and that's assuming your opponent doesn't realise this and conceal his rear armour, I'm pretty sure it's only a few long range IG tanks with this profile right


The rest of these however I agree with although you can swap Terms with Pyrovores IMO

I think 20 devil gants DSing is the main competitive unit to take. I also may see the mucolid's replacing ripper swarms to an extent, as they have the same 3 wound/T3 profile only cheaper (and arguably more dangerous when threatened). Plus they dont bite each other.

Interesting stuff to think about for sure.