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GW despite what complainers think, don't hate us. They don't set out to make us nerd rage. They don't have a vendetta against the player base. They are trying to keep the game fresh. Innovation isn't always well received but at least they're freaking trying.

I like the direction of the game. Toned down power levels, model releases outside of codex time. I LOVE LoW in regular games. I love flyers. There's more good than ba and at least they aren't regurgitating the same old junk.

When we stop hyper focusing on negativity, and start smelling the roses. I'm very happy with their single model releases and not just doing it at codex time with these nids. Let's hope this is a trend.

Every codex release since CSM:

1 three model big infantry model kit.
1 Riptide sized giant unit
2-4 fewer named characters.
1 obligatory day 1 DLC unoriginal codex supplement with no new models.

GW finally releases a new Mini Rule Book... for US$58.

Couple things here:
1. The full size rulebook, fluff book, and art book that's sold in a set is U$85.
2. Dark Vengeance, which includes 50 miniatures, dice, templates, and a small paperback rulebook, is US$110.
3. eBay has the full sized rulebook going for US$30-$40.
4. If you buy the book through the US GW Webstore, it DOES NOT qualify for free shipping, and will cost you an extra US$9. Or you can spend an extra US$7 to get the free shipping (I have yet to find anything on the GW Webstore that sells for less then US$10).

How is GW meeting player demand here? Are they really listening to us by providing us with a smaller rulebook? I'd say this book is worth MAYBE US$35 to me... maybe. I'd still hesitate at that price. US$58?

If you are happy with this direction GW is going, it means you are happy about incomplete army releases. What I mean is the upcoming Tyranid release will be a bare bones codex, followed by 2-3 extra supplements with the rest of the Tyranid army rules- just like the Dark Eldar, Space Wolves, and Orks releases so far. There will be no new units, but a couple BIG model kits.

But, hey! The choices! I don't have to buy those supplements! I don't have to buy the new kits. Nope. Not at all. Why would I want to buy all the rules and models for an army?

Here's a selfie of me since all this difficult to track, expensive, scatter gun release method has infected both 40K and Black Library..

You look better than I originally thought.

Maybe its that British dentistry.

GW is certainly trying.
But, is this really what the game needs?

GW PLC needs to get money in, and as fast as possible. See the limited edition books and models.
But, if GW did things in a more controlled and transparent manner, we would be able to save up our gaming budgets and plan when to spend on the next big thing. If they expect us to buy everything they release, we only buy bits. Telling us when a codex is getting an update, and when that would be, we can plan to splurge on the whole lot at once, but when we want to, not when they tell us to.

Also, putting the prices at such high levels just puts us off. That trickle of unexpected stuff stays on the shelf, as we hope the next load will be better, and worth buying. If they released the rules in all the formats at the beginning, we might buy a box to begin with, and plan to buy a small version later on. By keeping the small version back, and not even hinting it's coming at all, people see the huge 3-book box and avoid 7th ed altogether.

GW is doing it all wrong, and can't see that their secretive and expensive practices are keeping money out of their pockets.

A lot of what GW does these days is "Good idea, bad execution". Releasing a new series of campaign books to renew interest in one of their lagging games? Good idea. Making the rules LE? Bad execution.

 Blacksails wrote:
You look better than I originally thought.

Maybe its that British dentistry.

Careful, can't that sort of mildly cheeky humour get you arrested in Canadia?

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
GW despite what complainers think, don't hate us. They don't set out to make us nerd rage. They don't have a vendetta against the player base. They are trying to keep the game fresh. Innovation isn't always well received but at least they're freaking trying.

I like the direction of the game. Toned down power levels, model releases outside of codex time. I LOVE LoW in regular games. I love flyers. There's more good than ba and at least they aren't regurgitating the same old junk.

When we stop hyper focusing on negativity, and start smelling the roses. I'm very happy with their single model releases and not just doing it at codex time with these nids. Let's hope this is a trend.

Good for you.

Now I hate LoW on normal games because they are a NPE if you aren't prepared to face them, I hate flyers since they have no place in a game with the scale of 40k, I hate allies since all they do is dilute each army individual "flavour" and allow min-maxing to reach unprecedented levels, I hate unbound because they remove structure from the game and make pre-game negotiations even more difficult, I hate the "magic phase" since its just another random addition that doesn't accomplish anything other than making the game take even longer, I hate the way the GW removes units from codexes just so that they can sell DLC... And that is just from the top of my head, so no, there really isn't more good than bad. In fact the bad outnumbers the good by a big freaking margin and none of that bad of it is solved or ameliorated by releasing models out of cycle!

To be honest, while their business practices are somewhere beteween irritating and insulting, the direction they're taking the game in. More options is always good for players like myself that don't give a damn about effectiveness, I like th fact you can do so much with your army now, and for all the complaining about supplements and dataslates being overpriced (and I do agree there), you don't need them at all, and if you do want to use them, the information isn't that hard to come by between forums, blogs and the like.

For all the flak it gets, I still love 40k; I had my first game in months the other day, a 4500 point megabattle, and for all the cleanness of Infinity or the uniqueness of Malifaux, nothing quite matches the awesome spectacle and hours of fun that a game of 40k can provide.

I'll admit, I haven't bought a GW product nearly all year until recently.

I've been really impressed with the End time stuff, it's gotten me back into fantasy.

The new Tyranid stuff was the shot in the arm I really needed to get my love for the army going again. While the first week of releases sucked due to lackluster rules, the second week has been amazing!

Hmm...so you are happy with spending a crazy amount of money...
I will admit they aren't getting worse but they are still insane never the less. They still write unbalenced rules wich does not lean in there favour, so if they at least fix up the rules and write them like lotr (balanced and fair) and if they downed the prices I would like them. So at the moment IMO they are still insane and an evil company.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
GW despite what complainers think, don't hate us. They don't set out to make us nerd rage. They don't have a vendetta against the player base. They are trying to keep the game fresh. Innovation isn't always well received but at least they're freaking trying.

I like the direction of the game. Toned down power levels, model releases outside of codex time. I LOVE LoW in regular games. I love flyers. There's more good than ba and at least they aren't regurgitating the same old junk.

When we stop hyper focusing on negativity, and start smelling the roses. I'm very happy with their single model releases and not just doing it at codex time with these nids. Let's hope this is a trend.

Nobody is saying that GW hates us or is out to make us nerd rage. Most people here genuinely enjoy the 40k universe.

The problem is that they're releasing tons of stuff at a very fast rate with a very high rate of absurdly poor execution, power levels are wildly variable, and on top of all that the rules support (FAQ/errata) is abysmal and slow, with prices that are generally increasing at a rate out of all proportion with inflation along with an increasingly confused ruleset that doesn't really know what it wants to be.

I don't hate GW, I'm just not interested in buying most of what they make or playing their games any more.

I'm glad you enjoy it though, I hope your enjoyment continues.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
GW despite what complainers think, don't hate us. They don't set out to make us nerd rage. They don't have a vendetta against the player base. They are trying to keep the game fresh. Innovation isn't always well received but at least they're freaking trying.

GW is responsible for 3 out of 4 shops closing in my area and 1 moving to CCG and not supporting GW stuff. I have no place to play. This is more then hate. It is like selling someone a boat and then stealing all water in his country.

I like the direction of the game. Toned down power levels, model releases outside of codex time. I LOVE LoW in regular games. I love flyers. There's more good than ba and at least they aren't regurgitating the same old junk.

With FW, multi CAD, ally, formations the game was toned down

When we stop hyper focusing on negativity, and start smelling the roses. I'm very happy with their single model releases and not just doing it at codex time with these nids. Let's hope this is a trend.

Cool thing your happy. But please don't force me to act happy, when my community dies and am left with 600$+ of stuff I can't use. If I bought a playstation with the money I would have fun and no problems .

 Tamwulf wrote:
GW finally releases a new Mini Rule Book... for US$58.

Couple things here:
1. The full size rulebook, fluff book, and art book that's sold in a set is U$85.
2. Dark Vengeance, which includes 50 miniatures, dice, templates, and a small paperback rulebook, is US$110.
3. eBay has the full sized rulebook going for US$30-$40.
4. If you buy the book through the US GW Webstore, it DOES NOT qualify for free shipping, and will cost you an extra US$9. Or you can spend an extra US$7 to get the free shipping (I have yet to find anything on the GW Webstore that sells for less then US$10).

How is GW meeting player demand here? Are they really listening to us by providing us with a smaller rulebook? I'd say this book is worth MAYBE US$35 to me... maybe. I'd still hesitate at that price. US$58?

If you are happy with this direction GW is going, it means you are happy about incomplete army releases. What I mean is the upcoming Tyranid release will be a bare bones codex, followed by 2-3 extra supplements with the rest of the Tyranid army rules- just like the Dark Eldar, Space Wolves, and Orks releases so far. There will be no new units, but a couple BIG model kits.

But, hey! The choices! I don't have to buy those supplements! I don't have to buy the new kits. Nope. Not at all. Why would I want to buy all the rules and models for an army?

The mini hardcover rulebook is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of. The mini softcover rulebook is FREE, if you find someone at your FLGS gaming group and be nice to them (I've given away three!), and the full size set includes two more (fluff) books and can be had at discount around $70-$75.

Besides, why on earth would you want to carry around a heavier book, if your goal is portability?

Oh yes, the 3 bookmarks, that must be it

To the point of the original topic, though, I have no issue with the direction of GW. I like a company that releases new stuff every week, even if I don't like every new release and think some are silly.

Of course GW doesn't hate us. They love us so much they just held an event where we could pay to get in and buy their product at full price. They love us so much that, during this event that was focussed on all things GW, they decided not to tell us about any of the products that were to be released even just two weeks after that event.

the_scotsman wrote:
Every codex release since CSM:

1 three model big infantry model kit.
1 Riptide sized giant unit
2-4 fewer named characters.
1 obligatory day 1 DLC unoriginal codex supplement with no new models.

Nope.

Dark Eldar (No giant unit)
Grey Knights (No giant unit, no new infantry, no day 1 DLC)
Space Wolves (No 3 model big infantry kit)
Astra Militarum (No giant unit)
Space Marines (No giant unit)
etc. so on.

GW in 40K or GW in general?

I am back in GW's corner, after a long time on the fence, simply because of how much life they have breathed into Warhammer Fantasy with the End Times. New, fantastic (If a little to large) models and advancing the story line has done wonders for the range as a whole. I haven't seen as much interest in Fantasy in all my years of Fantasy (which was before my 40K), and now when i go into my local GW i can actually get a pick up game of Fantasy.

With this decision working so well (All the End Times Books have sold out near me, so i assume they are selling well) i wouldn't be overly surprised if this carries over to 40K, and for all my skepticism, i can only hope it turns out as well as the Fantasy one.

I have deleted the off-topic tangent from the thread. Please stick to discussing the topic, rather than complaining about people having a different opinion to your own.

If you see posts that you feel break the rules (ie: are rude, or off topic, or spam), the appropriate response is to hit the Mod Alert button so that we can deal with it as we feel appropriate, not spark off-topic side-tracks by making snarky comments about them.

Thank you. We need that done more often.

I am happy to a degree. The constant influx of new material is keeping the hobby active where before it was stagnating. I only wish that they would do a better job in terms of playtesting it.

i do fear for what happens when they get everything caught up. I dont want them to immediately redo everything again once it's updated. Hopefully, they will then move on to fantasy (looking that way) so that we have a few years of use out of all this new material.

I agree with Daly for once. I don't necessarily like flyers, LoWs etc, but I do appreciate them trying new things. Rising prices is happening in all sectors, and has been since about 1913.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
They are trying to keep the game fresh. Innovation isn't always well received but at least they're freaking trying.

No, they really aren't, and that's the problem. What we're getting is minimum-effort releases from a company that proudly declares that they're a "model company" selling to "collectors" and the rules don't really matter.

It's the general direction of the game that I'm most displeased about. There's too much randomness in the game and that takes away player involvement and not enough strategy. The codexes have gotten better in terms of external balance but still there are external and especially internal balance issues that are very frustrating.
If the game wants to go bigger, the rules and pricing need to adapt or they're going to price themselves into extinction.
I don't like LOW in normal games and the flier rules are horrid. (especially the lack of good AA options in some armies.)
The end of times stuff is really good and 40k could definitely use something like that.
I don't think GW hates us, but I do think they don't care. They're a group of yes-men trapped in a bubble with little to no idea what's going on in the real world.
As a company they're pretty terrible, both financially and morally.

The 40k gaming group in my area had officially died two weeks ago at the local hobby store.
It ALWAYS had been running for years.
What they are doing is becoming less relevant in my area.
MTG, Malifaux, X-wing, Flames of War and Warmachine / Hordes are pretty much all that remain.
GW has been sending more free stuff to the store owner but he has said "it is not worth the space stocking".

OP: being happy about their direction is your prerogative but there is some unease with their shrinking market share.

 Talizvar wrote:
The 40k gaming group in my area had officially died two weeks ago at the local hobby store.
It ALWAYS had been running for years.

Ive seen that this happens just about everywhere. tthese games cycle. You'll get a lot of players (maybe even enough to start a club) of one game. Over time, players grow bored or another catches their attention or key members move away and it fizzles out for a while.
tttthen later, it resurfaces when it is once again "fresh". Fresh in that it hasnt been played for a while and players have grown bored of a different game that had been popular for a while.
True, there is a lot GW could do to keep it fresh and I feel that is what they are trying to do. I think they have just gotten out of touch in how to do it effectively. Personally, I think when they starrrrted phasing out the old timers (people like Andy Chambers), they stttttarted losing the soul of the company which was the "gamer".

i read in an article on BOLS, where GW vetoed the ickstarter idea for a computer game because it looked "tacky" (my take on the whole spiel). Personally, I think it would be a good idea and that letting the market have a say in the actual creation (of their other games like 40k as well), could bring in fresh and possibly radical changes that are needed but would never make it past the board room.

 EVIL INC wrote:
i read in an article on BOLS, where GW vetoed the ickstarter idea for a computer game because it looked "tacky" (my take on the whole spiel).

It was nothing to do with Kickstarter looking 'tacky'. GW supposedly were worried about a failed Kickstarter potentially devaluing their brand.

 insaniak wrote:

 EVIL INC wrote:
i read in an article on BOLS, where GW vetoed the ickstarter idea for a computer game because it looked "tacky" (my take on the whole spiel).

It was nothing to do with Kickstarter looking 'tacky'. GW supposedly were worried about a failed Kickstarter potentially devaluing their brand.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/10/games-workshop-and-kickstarter-hidden.html
Sorry. I was mistaken. With 12 hour shifts and 3.5 travel time for work laus helping run the family business of rental properties, I confused the editorial with the exerpt running the two together in my mind. While this sort of thing might be one of the unofficial reasons for it, that would only be speculation.
Good catch.
While I feel the guy writing the article has a point and I can see where he is coming from, I feel he is dead wrong. It would be a show of them caring or not really caring but of pardon the expression, them pulling their heads out of their backsides and listening to their customer base.
I disagree with many here on subjective items such as about which sets of rules I like better or less, but on this we seem to be on the same page.

You're apparently seeing something in Kickstarter projects that I've missed. How is running a Kickstarter a sign that a company is listening to feedback from their customers?

As a whole, GW has become less focused on the customer and more focused on their stockholders, to the detriment of both.
They de-emphasized the hobby aspects.
They de-emphasized the tournament aspects.
They de-emphasized strategic play and player control in favor of randomness.
They emphasized "forge the narrative" which is an excuse for poorly written rules and lack of focus.