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From Various discussions on other threads let try an experiment

Look in your Codex, choose one unit that is, in your opinion, Overpowered and one unit that is underpowered / undercosted and say how you would fix them?

Good luck

my Eldar

Overpowered
Wave Serpent - Loses exclusive Dedicated Transport status (Falcons also gain it), Serpent Shield is One Shot and template.

Underpowered
Howling Banshees can Assault out of all vehicles

DKoK Siege list

Underpowered

Death Korps Grenadiers, they have Scions equipement, but no real good mean to get within range with e'm, the Centaur is probably the easiest vehicle to kill in all of 40k and footslooging 5-10 T3 4+ dudes is a bad thing.

I'd say, let e'm hitch a ride in the Hades Drill like Engineers, its fluffy and would be awesome.

Overpowered

Uh... Artillery carriages I guess? Not sure, might be too cheap.

Adepta Sororitas

Underpowered

Celestian Squads - May take Melee and/or Ranged weapons from the wargear list.

Overpowered

Avenger Strike Fighter - Make the Lascannons twin-linked instead of being two separate weapons.

Tau

Underpowered - Heavy Rail Rifle - needs a second shot (Heavy 2 or Salvo 2/1 or Rapid Fire).

Undercosted - The Riptide - would still be good costing about 10% more.

Eldar one simple change that fixes both the OP of Serpents, and UP of transporting Banshees and Scorpions.

In lieu of firing any other weapons, the Wave Serpent can unleash its shield. All units (friend or foe, but not including units that disembarked from the Serpent that turn) within 6" must take a Pinning test. Additionally, the Wave Serpent is treated as having the Assault Vehicle special rule that turn, as long as the charge is declared on a within 6" of the Wave Serpent.

This fixes the broken shooting by making it a 6" Pinning and no other shooting. Furthermore, by giving the vehicle "Assault Vehicle" allows melee oriented units to charge out of it.

Space Marines

Upgrades for Vanguards should cost less.
Nothing else, I like the codex otherwise.

Hanskrampf wrote:
Space Marines

Upgrades for Vanguards should cost less.
Nothing else, I like the codex otherwise.

You didn't include the unit to get nerfed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tau

Underpowered: Kroot - Give them either +1A and I'll be happy, gotta love Kroot.

Overpowered: HYMP - make it more expensive, it shouldn't be free

Orks

Overpowered: lootas. Make them a little more expensive or 2shots each

Underpowered. Trukks av 11 with a more expensive av12 option

Adepta Sororitas

Overpowered: Gotta echo on making the 2 lascannons on the Avenger a single twin-linked one.

Underpowered: Cannoness, needs more weapon and equipment options ie Jump pack.

Nids

Underpowered: Haruspex. Gains a 12' movement, and on the first charge of the game charges 3d6. The extra attacks can generate extra attacks.

Overpowered: lol.....

Can we just fix my model collection?

Orkz

Overpowered; tractor kannon. Increase in points. Maybe also regular kannon and lobbaa

Underpowered; Nobz.. I have five unassembled boxes of them why do they still cost three boyz or two stormboys or more than a warbikes before any upgrades even? I'd like to field them one day :(

Chaos: over powered blood slaughterer: rampage, rage and a but load of attacks, av13 and far too cheap.
fix: up its cost or drop rampage, it's good enough without it l.

Underoowered: thousand sons: fix (maybe) drop ap3 for rending bolters, 5++ and drop to 18-20pts each, buff champ to 2 wounds and mastery 1 and allow pyromancy or telekinesis

... You want to lose AP3 and 4++ and only reduce them by 4 points per model? Pfft.

Orks:

Overpowered: I'm honestly not sure on this. I don't think there is really anything in the Ork codex that could be labeled as OP. I mean, MAYBE the Mek Gunz? The basic ones being 18 points is pretty darn good, but they aren't really THAT strong on the whole...

Underpowered: Nobz by far. I bring them along because I have the models, but there's not many reasons to really field them over anything else. There's really nothing Nobz can do that Boyz don't do just as well, if not better.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
... You want to lose AP3 and 4++ and only reduce them by 4 points per model? Pfft.

Yeah 18 to 20 pts each for a 24" rending gun (180 or 200pts for the unit) 10 shots and a psychic power seems fair, kinda forgot to mention the sorcerer would be factored into the cost, I think 200 points is quite fair for such a unit (10 man strong)

Imperial Guard

Overpowered: Wyvern, should cost 85 points, fire two large blast S5 Ap6, lose shred, lose twin-linked (seriously? Twin-linked blast weapons).

Underpowered: Rough Riders, gain WS4, T4, and jink.

Blood angels

OP: corbulo tbh is the only thing I can think of to put here. As long as you don't try to stand him up front against s8+, he's pretty invincible. I guess just giving him a small points hike or reducing his personal fnp to 3+ would work.

UP: I have to pick just one? Hmmm. Let's go with sanguinary guard today. Drop two handed off of glaives, make the angelus an assault 2 that counts as a pistol so they pick up an extra swing, and drop them to 35 a man.

Orks (can I do characters?)

Overpowered: DLS MA Warboss, 2+ rerollable is a huge tank
For unit I would say Mek Guns are pretty good for their points, though not wildly so... Should probably cost a bit more.

Underpowered: Ghazghkull Thraka, the biggest baddest ork in the galaxy doesn't have LD 10 or an invulnerable save! Ouch... For unit I would definitely agree Nobz are pretty weak

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
Orks (can I do characters?)

Overpowered: DLS MA Warboss, 2+ rerollable is a huge tank
For unit I would say Mek Guns are pretty good for their points, though not wildly so... Should probably cost a bit more.

Underpowered: Ghazghkull Thraka, the biggest baddest ork in the galaxy doesn't have LD 10 or an invulnerable save! Ouch... For unit I would definitely agree Nobz are pretty weak

I dunno if the MA DLS Warboss could be considered over powered. Most armies we face laugh at 2+ armor, and once he gets into CC with any other character, they can probably punch through his armor anyway. It's good, but situational a vast majority of the time, and has huge drawbacks (Specifically how slow he is along with whatever crew you give him). It's not like we can really break the combo. It's decent, but costly, and even then, easily voided out.

Chaos Marines
Overpowered: Sorcerer HQs nowadays. The Spell Familiar's ability to reroll psychic tests takes it far. Take a S4 hit for each die rerolled, or something.
Underpowered: Thousand Sons, so very much. Several things would include making them Relentless instead of S&P, letting the Sorcerer autopass LOS rolls (the Rubric Marines are bodyguards for crissakes), redoing the Lore of Tzeentch, allowing any Sorcerer with the Mark of Tzeentch to treat Warp Charge die rolls of 6 as '0-cost...'


Chaos Daemons:
>Overpowered: Screamerstar.
>Underpowered: Bloodcrushers. Cost like Terminators, hit like Burnaboyz.

Dark Eldar.

Overpowered? Maybe make the DTs only DTs to prevent ally abuse? Not that much broken here.

Underpowered? Make Clone Fields the same as they were.

Biggest fix? Put our characters back.

Chapter Tactics: Black Templars now makes all transports in the detachment Assault Transports.

Thunderfire Cannons now cost 130 points base.

Overpowered: 18 pt lobbas. Make them 22 pt. Seriously, they're insanely good for the points. Not gamebreaking but they feel like undercosted. I've used lobbas since the last codex and even for 25 pt they were worth it. However, we've lost the ability to take runtherds to bump grot's ld, so 25 would be a bit too much.

Underpowered: Burnas. Massed flamers got nerfed in 7-th other than hitting vs open-topped vehicles. Burnas got 1 point more expensive... They should cost around 12 pt and not 16 to see the board from time to time. Or get some dataslate that makes them usable. The only time they might be used now is when you tailor to face dark eldar or similar deepstriking alpha-strike that's not too durable.

Wanted to list Ghazzy but everyone lists him anywayz. And Kanz. they're just so bad for what they cost and are brought only to meet requirements of the dredd mob. Even with d3 HoW, 'ere we go and KFF they're only close to the lower level of mediocre. I'd make them cost 30 with a rokkit. Not 50.

 koooaei wrote:
Overpowered: 18 pt lobbas. Make them 22 pt. Seriously, they're insanely good for the points. Not gamebreaking but they feel like undercosted. I've used lobbas since the last codex and even for 25 pt they were worth it. However, we've lost the ability to take runtherds to bump grot's ld, so 25 would be a bit too much.

Underpowered: Burnas. Massed flamers got nerfed in 7-th other than hitting vs open-topped vehicles. Burnas got 1 point more expensive... They should cost around 12 pt and not 16 to see the board from time to time. Or get some dataslate that makes them usable. The only time they might be used now is when you tailor to face dark eldar or similar deepstriking alpha-strike that's not too durable.

Wanted to list Ghazzy but everyone lists him anywayz. And Kanz. they're just so bad for what they cost and are brought only to meet requirements of the dredd mob. Even with d3 HoW, 'ere we go and KFF they're only close to the lower level of mediocre. I'd make them cost 30 with a rokkit. Not 50.

Grotzookas are actually pretty good... 2 S6 blasts coming off a unit that is immune to a lot of infantry fire is nice.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:


Grotzookas are actually pretty good... 2 S6 blasts coming off a unit that is immune to a lot of infantry fire is nice.

Even for such enormous cost? Yep, being a walker - versatile and stuff, but you can actually get 3 lobbas for the price. With their own benefits.

In other words: i see canz as the last thing i'd take in a regular game. In dread-mob they're a requirement, so it doesn't count. Can't cope with paying for kanzas as if they were warwalkers.

Tyranids: There are quite a few things that need fixing. Here are a few things.

1. Tyranid Primes can take Wings changing their unit type to Jump Infantry (Character).
2. Hive Tyrants upgrade for a 2+ Armour and/or 5+ Invuln.
3. Either fix the got-dang IB tables or go back to 4th ed where Synapse gave Eternal Warrior. I don't know how many times I've lost games due to IB.

I'm sure others have more ideas.

Imperial Guard:

Overpowered:

Probably Wyverns, mostly just because it's the only *new* thing (barring the Taurox), and all of the old stuff got rebalanced or was never OP in the first place. I myself have no problem with them in concept really, they fit very well and for the points aren't terribly overpowered... I just feel they're a bit TOO good at what they do when they're brought in to do it. I.e. I only ever use one against Orks, 'Nids, or Dark Eldar, but the few times I use it it absolutely rips through them like nothing to the point that it feels like it's cheating. I'd probably just drop one of the blasts or something.

Underpowered:

Rough Riders. Whooo boy Rough Riders. First off, don't make them T4 but give an UPGRADE for cyberhorses or the like that give them T4 and 4+. I've never been big on crunch, so, what, 5 points a piece for that?

I say make them actual Power Lances for one, but also give you the option to buy different types of explosives for either 1 or 3 Rough Riders (Sarge?) that are applied on Hammer of Wrath hits, specifically the standard explosives of the Imperium; Frag, Krak, and Melta.

Frag gives a S4 AP6 D3 hits HoW.
Krak gives the HoW the same stats as a Krak (S8 AP3, right?) missile.
Melta acts as a melta bomb when used against a vehicle.

Simple enough, gives them the appropriate Hammer of Wrath punch they deserve along with some utility. Now you can have Polish Cavaliers WINNING against tanks, as is befitting 40k. Again, points aren't my thing.

 Happyjew wrote:
Tyranids: There are quite a few things that need fixing. Here are a few things.

1. Tyranid Primes can take Wings changing their unit type to Jump Infantry (Character).
2. Hive Tyrants upgrade for a 2+ Armour and/or 5+ Invuln.
3. Either fix the got-dang IB tables or go back to 4th ed where Synapse gave Eternal Warrior. I don't know how many times I've lost games due to IB.

I'm sure others have more ideas.

And about nerfing the overpowered stuff?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yipyioh wrote:


Rough Riders. Whooo boy Rough Riders. First off, don't make them T4 but give an UPGRADE for cyberhorses or the like that give them T4 and 4+. I've never been big on crunch, so, what, 5 points a piece for that?

I say make them actual Power Lances for one, but also give you the option to buy different types of explosives for either 1 or 3 Rough Riders (Sarge?) that are applied on Hammer of Wrath hits, specifically the standard explosives of the Imperium; Frag, Krak, and Melta.

Frag gives a S4 AP6 D3 hits HoW.
Krak gives the HoW the same stats as a Krak (S8 AP3, right?) missile.
Melta acts as a melta bomb when used against a vehicle.

Simple enough, gives them the appropriate Hammer of Wrath punch they deserve along with some utility. Now you can have Polish Cavaliers WINNING against tanks, as is befitting 40k. Again, points aren't my thing.

They're somewhat ok in a min squad with a melta bomb. Could occasionally wreck a vehicle or strip 1 wound from a wraithknight on a charge. Not bad for the points. And fast attack is not so crowded now. But i definitely see why one would want them to get buffed a bit.

Orks!

Killa Kanz to Elite
Kan Klaw to DCCW

Mob Rule Old way.

KFF 5+ Cover per UNIT in 6" bubble
or
KFF 4+ Invuln per model 6" bubble

Slugga Boy 5pts
Shoota 6pts

Discontinue that Dorkanaut BS (worst model ever) or make it an Assault Vehicle.

Master of the Forge should have +1 wound.
Chaplain should be 5 points cheaper
Termies should be 37 points base and be allowed 3 heavy weapons per squad of 10 (1 per 3 guys not counting serg.).
hammer/shield termies should be 40pts apiece.
dreadnoughts and predators should be granted access to grav cannons.
land speeder's should be 5 points cheaper and have cheaper assault cannons.
all relics except for shield eternal are overcosted by 5-10 points.
Sternguard should be able to use special ammo on stormbolters and heavy bolters.
Vanguard vets should be able to buy plasma or grav pistols at 7points apiece.
Tac squads should be able to purchase the astartes webber in place of special of heavy weapon selections. (range 12" str-, ap-, assault 1. Model makes a str test and is pinned for 1 turn if it fails).



Cant think of anything OP in marine codex. just some strong stuff.