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 Bobthehero wrote:
Aye, 'sides, who's to say Abaddon won't get his ass handed to him, and the End Times of 40k is actually the Imperium beating back its various foes.

If it's anything like the WHF version, it actually means lots of special characters on the Imperium and Eldar side would get whacked, not the other way round.

It doesn't need to destroy Cadia. You just need to break the blockade so Chaos Crusades can be launched willy nilly with no blockade to intercept them.

 TranSpyre wrote:
Magnus hasn't done much of anything. TS warbands are operating independently of him, and have since Ahriman cast his rubric

He broke Frenris at the Fang, so that's close enough to doing stuff. The Space Wolves were crippled thanks to his actions.


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 MajorStoffer wrote:
It's far more likely to see Ahriman stand against Chaos in some final battle; his character has always held that underlying resentment of Tzeentch's manipulation of him and his legion. My own headcanon has him seeing a way to undo the damage of both his own Rubric and Tzeentch, and he won't let anything stand in his way; Imperial, Eldar, Chaos or even his own Primarch.

Not that he's a nice guy by any stretch of the imagination, but in some kind of end times scenario, I can see him quite happily stabbing Abaddon in the back, giving Tzeentch the finger and carving out a domain for himself once the dust settles.

Do I smell a 40k Tomb Kings faction with Space Nagash?

 Veteran of The Long War wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:

 Veteran of The Long War wrote:
The problem with that is that Abaddon beat Horus' Clone in single combat. While the clone wouldn't have had the combat experience that the real Horus had it's still impressive and this is before abaddon obtained Drach'nyen.

Even the Emperor couldn't recreate the Primarchs after he lost them the first time, so how would a clone made by Fabius Bile be equal to the real Horus?

becauee he's Fabius Bile. He also creates several clones of Ferrus Manus during the heresy. And yes the clone,chile not having the combat experience of Horus, is still intelligent and killed a company of Rubricae before Abaddon stepped in.

It doesn't matter, it still needs the soul of the Primarch, as the Primarchs are creations of the Warp, not flesh. Which also explains how Abaddon went toe to toe with one and won.

 Psienesis wrote:

 TranSpyre wrote:
Magnus hasn't done much of anything. TS warbands are operating independently of him, and have since Ahriman cast his rubric

Battle of the Fang? Magnus showed up personally to kill the Space Wolves.

Failed, of course, because GW forgot that he was a psyker of god-like power, but, then, they couldn't have the Wolves lose, now, could they?

I wouldn't call it a failure. Magnus failed to destroy them, but he crippled their leadership by physically ripping apart their command and obliterated their research project to create stable Space Wolf gene-seed so they could create successors.

http://nblo.gs/11OrFx

Well.

Apparently 'yall are psychic, because GW might be making an End of Times for 40k with McNeil (F***) writing it.

Also, Rogal Dorn is probably alive as well. The 6th edition retcons Rogal's skeleton to just being a hand owned by the Imperial Fists Chapter. Dorn's just MIA.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the Sanguinor turned out to be Sanguinius or some reincarnation of him.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I don't see why they could just do a "trousers of time" thing. Just a story-line based on a possible outcome. Two universes, split at a single point.

They could also just temporarily up the ante and then have things cool down.

Remember- Konrad Curze, one of the most esteemed prophets in 40k, never saw an end to the Eternal War. All he was war, forever.

 Argive wrote:
You guys do realise the only race thats ever going to "win" 40k is the nids right? by wh80kThey will just never stop and eventually devour everything...

Wat

Chaos is explictly stated to consume everything upon the destruction of the Emperor. The only two possible endings for 40K is the Eldar and Imperium teaming up and backing up their respective gods for a final showdown to smackdown all the other factions, or Chaos consuming the universe upon the destruction of the Emperor. Tyranids and Orks don't even come into the picture.


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 Argive wrote:
You guys do realise the only race thats ever going to "win" 40k is the nids right? by wh80kThey will just never stop and eventually devour everything...

Wat

Chaos is explictly stated to consume everything upon the destruction of the Emperor. The only two possible endings for 40K is the Eldar and Imperium teaming up and backing up their respective gods for a final showdown to smackdown all the other factions, or Chaos consuming the universe upon the destruction of the Emperor. Tyranids and Orks don't even come into the picture.

 dusara217 wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Argive wrote:
You guys do realise the only race thats ever going to "win" 40k is the nids right? by wh80kThey will just never stop and eventually devour everything...

Wat

Chaos is explictly stated to consume everything upon the destruction of the Emperor. The only two possible endings for 40K is the Eldar and Imperium teaming up and backing up their respective gods for a final showdown to smackdown all the other factions, or Chaos consuming the universe upon the destruction of the Emperor. Tyranids and Orks don't even come into the picture.

First of all, if you know anything of war, there is no such thing as a "final showdown". There are only turning points and battles. There may be a time when the other factions foolishly commit their armies to such a battle, but the Necrons would never do so unless they knew they had a high chance to win. And even then, there would still be the need to conquer each and every planet the enemy resides upon, hunt down any surviving Necron, CSM, etc. And by the end, the Eldar and IoM would be at ecahother's throats again; feeding Chaos. Either Tyranids win, Chaos wins, or Necrons win. There are no other alternatives, unless the IoM can give up its insane racial prejudice and start forging diplomatic alliances with aliens; in which case it would be allying with a multitude of smaller Empires, like the Tau, and other species, like the Eldar.

This is 40K, not real life.

Also, the Imperium is almost guaranteed to win any End of Times scenario due to them bankrolling GW. Plus the ascension of the Emperor is practically guaranteed if he's ever removed from the Throne.

 Argive wrote:
Nids just wont stop. As they devour worlds there will be less and less emotion thus diminishing forces of chaos.. plus they kind of exist in the void between galaxies meaning that the "incursions" of so called tendrils into the 40k galaxy were most likely "feelers" looking for the best entry point. Time is irrelevant to the hive mind

I'd speculate the nid main body is akin to the size of half a galaxy at least. If you considered they might have already devoured many galaxies up to this point. Its like a cancer that is not going into remission.

I think this theory might have a hole as I am unsure how nids fare against necrons since they are abiotic. Are necrons quite numerous? can they replace/grow their numbers quickly?

They've only devoured twelve galaxies, and having the mass of half a galaxy would generate a black hole and kill them all. I also take it you don't understand thermodynamics, meaning that Tyranids are constantly in a race against their own hunger and they constantly suffer casualties from simply burning casualties. There is no free lunch in real-space. They need energy to sustain every single biomorph for every second it exists- they would have all starved to death by this point if they had half a goddamn galaxy's worth of mass.

I mean Jesus fething Christ, do you even know how much mass that would entail? Even being able to fit the Tyranids in a one AU by one AU cube would be absurd.


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 Psienesis wrote:

 Argive wrote:
Nids just wont stop. As they devour worlds there will be less and less emotion thus diminishing forces of chaos.. plus they kind of exist in the void between galaxies meaning that the "incursions" of so called tendrils into the 40k galaxy were most likely "feelers" looking for the best entry point. Time is irrelevant to the hive mind

I'd speculate the nid main body is akin to the size of half a galaxy at least. If you considered they might have already devoured many galaxies up to this point. Its like a cancer that is not going into remission.

I think this theory might have a hole as I am unsure how nids fare against necrons since they are abiotic. Are necrons quite numerous? can they replace/grow their numbers quickly?

The Necrons once ruled most of the galaxy. They have no biomass, though sleeping Tomb Worlds have been devoured. However, any fight between Tyranids and Necrons is almost always a net loss for the bugs, since Necron weapons tend to disintegrate whatever they shoot (leaving no biomass to consume again), and when they die they phase out, again leaving nothing to consume.

The idea that the Hive Fleets are just the tip of the iceberg is an in-universe theory, not a known fact. It may well be that the fleets that are here are pretty much all there is to it. Notably, the Tyranids are trying new, sneakier tactics to get into the galaxy. This does not suggest a limitless supply of soldiers... in fact, it suggests an army that now has fewer soldiers to expend on the effort than it originally had.

I would almost certainly bet on the Tyranid numbers just being a bit larger then the total of all the Hive Fleets we've seen, simply given how slow Tyranid FTL is, and how ravenous their metabolism is. They'd have burnt out were they the size of half a galaxy's worth of mass.

Also, because that one Mechanicus probe that exited the Milky Way only found Ork signals, the Tyranids probably came from outside the Local Group. Meaning it would have taken them probably millions of years to reach us from outside the Local Group, some of which is certainly nfested with Orks.

 Argive wrote:
@wyzilla - 1. You're getting very upset about a very theoretical exercise concerning a universe which we use as a setting to play with toy soldiers... There is absolutely no need to be so obnoxious... but I'll play ball.

Thermo dynamics snuggest 40k universe follows our understanding of physics and biology... In which case I will just say "the warp"...

The Warp is an alternate universe connected to 40K, and is not considered realspace. Also, outside of Zoanthropes, the Tyranids make zero use of the warp in the first place.

I could argue the Nids lay dormant

Except they don't, they're consumed, but the ships themselves cannot go into a state of dormancy when they're traveling at FTL speeds.

maybe even freeze themselves in the void.

They're going FTL

It could be they are akin to demons and are actually existing within the intergalactic void as the hive mind could be a deity in their own call it "void dimension" who knows if this is true ?

Then provide evidence via citations of the fluff or quotes. Otherwise your "ideas" as just that, and worth nothing more then fan fiction.

Just because it does not fit into your idea of physics or your belief in the nature of the universe...or what you believe you have read in the the space marines fluff does not mean it cant be plausible...

Then cite it when it occurred. There is no evidence to support Tyranids having the mass of half a galaxy, and I also doubt you actually have to knowledge to realize just how absurd that assertions is.

Just to educate you on how outlandishly absurd your idea is (I can't even put it to terms, it's just insanity argued from ignorance), let's lowball it and say the Milky Way only has a mass of 1,000,000,000,000M☉. This is in units of Solar Masses- a single Solar Mass is equal to the mass of our star, Sol, which itself has a mass of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Kilograms (that's a Nonillion). By your logic, this would mean that the Tyranids would have the mass of 500,000,000,000 Solar Masses.

So, with a straight face, you propose the Tyranids have a collective mass of 45,474,735,088,646,411,895,751,953,125 kilograms? (I haven't checked, but I'm pretty sure this is 45 Duodecillion Kilograms).

There is no right or wrong answers.

Well in your case there's also unfounded, absurd, insane ones.

 Talon of Anathrax wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Argive wrote:
Nids just wont stop. As they devour worlds there will be less and less emotion thus diminishing forces of chaos.. plus they kind of exist in the void between galaxies meaning that the "incursions" of so called tendrils into the 40k galaxy were most likely "feelers" looking for the best entry point. Time is irrelevant to the hive mind

I'd speculate the nid main body is akin to the size of half a galaxy at least. If you considered they might have already devoured many galaxies up to this point. Its like a cancer that is not going into remission.

I think this theory might have a hole as I am unsure how nids fare against necrons since they are abiotic. Are necrons quite numerous? can they replace/grow their numbers quickly?

They've only devoured twelve galaxies, and having the mass of half a galaxy would generate a black hole and kill them all. I also take it you don't understand thermodynamics, meaning that Tyranids are constantly in a race against their own hunger and they constantly suffer casualties from simply burning casualties. There is no free lunch in real-space. They need energy to sustain every single biomorph for every second it exists- they would have all starved to death by this point if they had half a goddamn galaxy's worth of mass.

I mean Jesus fething Christ, do you even know how much mass that would entail? Even being able to fit the Tyranids in a one AU by one AU cube would be absurd.


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 Psienesis wrote:

 Argive wrote:
Nids just wont stop. As they devour worlds there will be less and less emotion thus diminishing forces of chaos.. plus they kind of exist in the void between galaxies meaning that the "incursions" of so called tendrils into the 40k galaxy were most likely "feelers" looking for the best entry point. Time is irrelevant to the hive mind

I'd speculate the nid main body is akin to the size of half a galaxy at least. If you considered they might have already devoured many galaxies up to this point. Its like a cancer that is not going into remission.

I think this theory might have a hole as I am unsure how nids fare against necrons since they are abiotic. Are necrons quite numerous? can they replace/grow their numbers quickly?

The Necrons once ruled most of the galaxy. They have no biomass, though sleeping Tomb Worlds have been devoured. However, any fight between Tyranids and Necrons is almost always a net loss for the bugs, since Necron weapons tend to disintegrate whatever they shoot (leaving no biomass to consume again), and when they die they phase out, again leaving nothing to consume.

The idea that the Hive Fleets are just the tip of the iceberg is an in-universe theory, not a known fact. It may well be that the fleets that are here are pretty much all there is to it. Notably, the Tyranids are trying new, sneakier tactics to get into the galaxy. This does not suggest a limitless supply of soldiers... in fact, it suggests an army that now has fewer soldiers to expend on the effort than it originally had.

I would almost certainly bet on the Tyranid numbers just being a bit larger then the total of all the Hive Fleets we've seen, simply given how slow Tyranid FTL is, and how ravenous their metabolism is. They'd have burnt out were they the size of half a galaxy's worth of mass.

Also, because that one Mechanicus probe that exited the Milky Way only found Ork signals, the Tyranids probably came from outside the Local Group. Meaning it would have taken them probably millions of years to reach us from outside the Local Group, some of which is certainly nfested with Orks.

It's been established that tyranids hibernate in the void between galaxies: most of them would not have starved.
However, this could be their weakness: if someone keeps them awake in the void (like, say, the excellent necron fleets or huge imperial armadas with a good leader), they could be made to starve.
This would work exceptionally well combineds with an exterminatus cordon like what Kryptman did.

No, only a small amount of biomorphs inside the ships that serve as their immune system hibernate. The majority are dissolved and absorbed back into the fleet. The ships however still need constant energy to support them, especially given how poorly designed the entire concepts of organic technology is.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
Hezus Christ Wyzilla, stop spouting random crap about 'Nids like you know everything in this entirely fictional universe, where even we the real people don't know everything inside the fictional universe.
As put very well by a GW employee- "If we were to simply have BL write fluff for the unknown 2nd and 11th Legions, then they would be one fixed thing, whereas if we leave it unknown to even us people in the real universe, then it can be any random theory, and surely that is on balance better." And I have to agree with him.
(See, I'm using the enter button, so calm down)
We only know what the Imperium knows, for the most part of 40k, and the Imperium knows barely anything about most things, including 'nids.
So please stop making huge putdowns of other people's ideas like you're the Hive Mind itself and know everything about the 'nids and how none of it can be true.

I'll continue to make "putdowns" when people spout asinine bs that makes less sense then the Dawn of War tie-in novels with backflipping temrinators. If you state something without even bothering to think of the implications, you have every right to be hit with a counterargument.

Especially when people spout random bs that isn't even supported anywhere in the fluff, and don't even bother to use citations or quotes to back up any of their word. Especially something as absurd as "half a galaxy's worth of nids". That's probably the most insane fan theory I've read on this entire forum.

But of course if you want to support his argument with quotes and/or citations of material backing up the Tyranids having decillions of biomass, you're welcome to.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
Hezus Christ Wyzilla, stop spouting random crap about 'Nids like you know everything in this entirely fictional universe, where even we the real people don't know everything inside the fictional universe.
As put very well by a GW employee- "If we were to simply have BL write fluff for the unknown 2nd and 11th Legions, then they would be one fixed thing, whereas if we leave it unknown to even us people in the real universe, then it can be any random theory, and surely that is on balance better." And I have to agree with him.
(See, I'm using the enter button, so calm down)
We only know what the Imperium knows, for the most part of 40k, and the Imperium knows barely anything about most things, including 'nids.
So please stop making huge putdowns of other people's ideas like you're the Hive Mind itself and know everything about the 'nids and how none of it can be true.

I'll continue to make "putdowns" when people spout asinine bs that makes less sense then the Dawn of War tie-in novels with backflipping temrinators. If you state something without even bothering to think of the implications, you have every right to be hit with a counterargument.

Especially when people spout random bs that isn't even supported anywhere in the fluff, and don't even bother to use citations or quotes to back up any of their word. Especially something as absurd as "half a galaxy's worth of nids". That's probably the most insane fan theory I've read on this entire forum.

But of course if you want to support his argument with quotes and/or citations of material backing up the Tyranids having decillions of biomass, you're welcome to.

I'm not saying he's right, he probably isn't but we don't know the full scale of the hive mind and all its tyrannids, that's all I'm basically getting at.

Which still doesn't justify asinine claims. An argument from ignorance is a terrible claim to make, be it fictional or real.

 dusara217 wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
Hezus Christ Wyzilla, stop spouting random crap about 'Nids like you know everything in this entirely fictional universe, where even we the real people don't know everything inside the fictional universe.
As put very well by a GW employee- "If we were to simply have BL write fluff for the unknown 2nd and 11th Legions, then they would be one fixed thing, whereas if we leave it unknown to even us people in the real universe, then it can be any random theory, and surely that is on balance better." And I have to agree with him.
(See, I'm using the enter button, so calm down)
We only know what the Imperium knows, for the most part of 40k, and the Imperium knows barely anything about most things, including 'nids.
So please stop making huge putdowns of other people's ideas like you're the Hive Mind itself and know everything about the 'nids and how none of it can be true.

I'll continue to make "putdowns" when people spout asinine bs that makes less sense then the Dawn of War tie-in novels with backflipping temrinators. If you state something without even bothering to think of the implications, you have every right to be hit with a counterargument.

Especially when people spout random bs that isn't even supported anywhere in the fluff, and don't even bother to use citations or quotes to back up any of their word. Especially something as absurd as "half a galaxy's worth of nids". That's probably the most insane fan theory I've read on this entire forum.

But of course if you want to support his argument with quotes and/or citations of material backing up the Tyranids having decillions of biomass, you're welcome to.

I'm not saying he's right, he probably isn't but we don't know the full scale of the hive mind and all its tyrannids, that's all I'm basically getting at.

Which still doesn't justify asinine claims. An argument from ignorance is a terrible claim to make, be it fictional or real.

Exalted. You may be an hole sometimes, but that is one of the best quotes I have ever read, and seems quite wise. Mind if I quote you?

Well it's not like I trademark my own words, so yeah, go ahead.

Never really got the idea of asking permission for quoting another's post in their sig.

I've been thinking of this idea for a while, but here's what I've come up with.

-Chaos "wins". The Emperor dies and ascends to the state of a new Chaos God (or order, irony at its best). With the astronomicon no longer spreading the light of the Emperor through the warp, and the Emperor no longer holding back the eye, the warp spreads through the majority of the Milky Way and consumes all human held space. The only places left untouched are the Ghoul Stars and the Galactic East.

- Because of this, the Imperium completely collapses and humanity is plunged into a new age of Old Night- only this time in the warp. Everything breaks down, and their core logistics cease to exist.

- The human worlds (the majority of which are in the new massive Eye of Terror) enter a Feudal state of existence reminiscent of Medieval Europe. They continue to eek out an existence in the warp and rely on the protection of the Daemons of the actual God Emperor for protection. The Astartes, Soriatas, Inquisition, and Mechanicus begin to seize complete control over worlds or even entire sectors to secure power in the new hellish landscape. The Sisters begin to resemble a monastic order while the Astartes continue to evolve more and more into a state resembling knights- only masters of themselves now. The Mechanicum become powerful merchant lords whom everyone panders to in hope of favors or supplly lines, while the Inquisition goes completely off the deep end with their entire purpose rendered mute. Some flee to the Galactic East where the Ultramarines are attempting to re-assemble the Legion, others begin to erode away in the warp.

- The Tau meanwhile suffer a similar implosion when Commander Farsight discovers that the Ethereals have been brainwashing their entire species for eons now, and spreads the information with everyone who will believe him. The Tau enter a state of civil war with Farsight's forces attempting to kill off the entire Ethereal Caste and liberate his species from the brainwashing rule of the Ethereals.

- Orks continue to Ork and barely notice that they're in the warp now, only they get even scarier as Gork and Mork begin to truly form in the warp, and are no longer just a myth. Ghazskull grows further in size and even greater numbers of Orks are rallying to his call.

- With the warp overtaking much of the galaxy, the Eldar have been completely cut off from obtaining new spirit stones from the Maiden Worlds located in the Eye. In desperation Eldrad calls for every Craftworld to rally to Ulthwe and begin the gestation of Ynnead, the Eldar god of Death. Biel-Tan however spurns this order, and the entire Craftworld embarks on a crusade into the original Eye of Terror to seize an entire Maiden World's worth of Tears.

And I'm going to take a break before finishing this.

But essentially, everything gets fethed over and virtually everyone has ashes to cry over.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Basically, everyone but your favorite faction gets dicked over, niiiiiice

Oh no, I didn't get over to the Lost and the Damned yet. The only thing that profits is Daemons. But everyone's screwed because virtually everyone's in the Warp, and the actual legit God Emperor can drop the Legion of the Damned on whoever-he-damn-pleases.