Do you want an End Times for 40k?

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**dusara217**

The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
The main problem with a large scale chaos invasion is cadia. Cadians move too many units in sales to be changed or discontinued, unless they were relocated. But then they wouldn't cadians.

tekno000 wrote:
I just read ALL of this. There’s a lot of good thoughts, but there’s a lot of “keep it just like 40k only moar!” talk happening, and I’m not sure that’s a particularly good thing. 30k games are distinct from 40k games. With their own related settings and characters, yes, but distinct. I think the envelope needs to be pushed even further for the next chapter of the story. Take it all the way to 50k if you have to. You can still keep the same models and rules and everything else, the universe has just moved forward and brought new story with it. Drastically. Just like the leap from 30k to 40k (only in the right order, development-wise). And there’s another ten thousand years of fluff to develop. Especially for non-Terran races.
The 30k galaxy and the 40k galaxy are very similar, and the 50k universe can be the same way. If you view the story as 40k being the “end times” of 30k, then 50k could be the “end times” of 40k. Frankly, having read way too many books, here’s what I’d like to see.

Chaos is knocking on Terra’s doorstep. 2nd siege of Terra. Get there however you want. Get the Eldar there. They’ve been growing in numbers for fluff reasons. Abbadon is crushing his way toward the golden throne when (insert fluff here) Sanguineous shows up and saves the emperor yet again by slaying Abbadon. (more fluff here) out walks the Emperor. Everyone cheers (chaos aside). Except the Emperor does absolutely nothing. He ascends to the warp and becomes the benevolent counterpoint to the warp gods, pulling strings around the galaxy in an eternal game of chess. Of course, nobody realizes this. Sanguineous included. The emperor just poofs and everyone just has a pause-battle-wtf moment.
Chaos is beaten back but with a now expanded Eye of Terror.

Meanwhile, back at Baal, Dante loses his cool when he discovers he’s not the golden boy to save the emperor and succumbs to the Black Rage. Mephiston steps in to lead the Blood Angels against the Tyranids. Necrons help, but cut and run at some critical moment, leaving the Blood Angels and whoever else wants some fluff (insert waaag here) to beat back the Tyranids.

Necrons cut and ran because they want to take over the universe and don’t’ think squishy humans and bugs can stop them anyway. But a certain rapidly evolving race of Tau could if they’re not nipped in the bud. Battles ensue. Of course, the Tau kick way more @$$ than anyone expects, steal a bunch of Necron tech and conquer a massive chunk of the galaxy right out from under the recovering empire.

All said and done, Sanguineous is leading what’s left of Terra in an effort to recover, and launches another crusade to find whatever primarchs are still living and regain lost planets. Like everyone else, he has only a vague idea what happened to the Emperor and wants to gather the remaining Primarchs to find out.

Tau are everywhere and expanding like crazy. Chaos is still running rampant around the galaxy under new leadership (lost primarch? Preferably someone we all thought was a good-guy). Nids are a scattered mess, but they’re everywhere. Necrons are pissed and looking for long-lost weapons to kill everyone with. Eldar are brimming out of the Webway ready to do whatever it is Eldar do. Orks got their deus ex machina moment and the waaag ends… for now.

Or, you know, something like that.

Everyone keeps their models, gets some new ones, and another 10k years of fluff ensues.

Oh yeah... and GW makes a $#!T ton of money on books and new models and terrain boards.

You forgot lion el jonson

All that they would have to do is make the Cadians into a form of elite IG. For instance:

The Cadian regiments had lost their homeworld, and acquired a fiery need for vengeance. As the years passed and Chaos only grew on Cadia, the numbers of Cadians in the Cadian regiments dwindled as new recruits from other worlds took their places. Yet, as time went on, the Cadian standard of excellence only rose as the Cadians asserted themselves as the greatest Guardsmen the Imperium had ever seen and distinguished themselves as such. Within a couple of decades, Cadian had nothing to do with the world of Cadia, and came to represent a fighting force so elite that only the Adeptus Astartes could rival them in combat.

**dementedwombat**

It would be interesting. As a Tau player I'm pretty sad to say that if they did decide to advance the plot, especially if it was from a "the galaxy is gonna die" standpoint, the most logical way for them to go about it for that tiny little Tau empire out there in the middle of nowhere insignificant to the "real show" of Chaos marching towards Terra would be: "*yoink* Eaten by Tyranids!" (alternatively "*yoink*, crushed by Imperial crusade!")

Of course...if that whole "Tau were created by Necrons as the ultimate anti-chaos race" turns out to be true then seeing the Necron plan come to fruition and an army of "Tau Necron" psychic blanks would be pretty dang amazong.

Alternatively again, if they went with the whole Xenology "Tau Ethereals were created by Eldar genetic modification" angle...well it involves the Eldar so I will hate it on principle.

I'm just going to vote yes here because whatever they decide to do I'd be interested to see it. I'm to the point where I mainly have interest in 40k from a "build and paint the models" perspective anyway.

**dusara217**

dementedwombat wrote:
It would be interesting. As a Tau player I'm pretty sad to say that if they did decide to advance the plot, especially if it was from a "the galaxy is gonna die" standpoint, the most logical way for them to go about it for that tiny little Tau empire out there in the middle of nowhere insignificant to the "real show" of Chaos marching towards Terra would be: "*yoink* Eaten by Tyranids!" (alternatively "*yoink*, crushed by Imperial crusade!")

Of course...if that whole "Tau were created by Necrons as the ultimate anti-chaos race" turns out to be true then seeing the Necron plan come to fruition and an army of "Tau Necron" psychic blanks would be pretty dang amazong.

Alternatively again, if they went with the whole Xenology "Tau Ethereals were created by Eldar genetic modification" angle...well it involves the Eldar so I will hate it on principle.

I'm just going to vote yes here because whatever they decide to do I'd be interested to see it. I'm to the point where I mainly have interest in 40k from a "build and paint the models" perspective anyway.

OR (alternatively) Biel-tan and the Tau join forces to forge a new Eldar Empire where Eldar And Ethereals are both in charge (or at least until those crafty Eldar figure out how to stage coup d'etat).

**Wyzilla**

Argive wrote:
You guys do realise the only race thats ever going to "win" 40k is the nids right? by wh80kThey will just never stop and eventually devour everything...

Wat

Chaos is explictly stated to consume everything upon the destruction of the Emperor. The only two possible endings for 40K is the Eldar and Imperium teaming up and backing up their respective gods for a final showdown to smackdown all the other factions, or Chaos consuming the universe upon the destruction of the Emperor. Tyranids and Orks don't even come into the picture.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Argive wrote:
You guys do realise the only race thats ever going to "win" 40k is the nids right? by wh80kThey will just never stop and eventually devour everything...

Wat

Chaos is explictly stated to consume everything upon the destruction of the Emperor. The only two possible endings for 40K is the Eldar and Imperium teaming up and backing up their respective gods for a final showdown to smackdown all the other factions, or Chaos consuming the universe upon the destruction of the Emperor. Tyranids and Orks don't even come into the picture.

**dusara217**

Wyzilla wrote:
Argive wrote:
You guys do realise the only race thats ever going to "win" 40k is the nids right? by wh80kThey will just never stop and eventually devour everything...

Wat

Chaos is explictly stated to consume everything upon the destruction of the Emperor. The only two possible endings for 40K is the Eldar and Imperium teaming up and backing up their respective gods for a final showdown to smackdown all the other factions, or Chaos consuming the universe upon the destruction of the Emperor. Tyranids and Orks don't even come into the picture.

First of all, if you know anything of war, there is no such thing as a "final showdown". There are only turning points and battles. There may be a time when the other factions foolishly commit their armies to such a battle, but the Necrons would never do so unless they knew they had a high chance to win. And even then, there would still be the need to conquer each and every planet the enemy resides upon, hunt down any surviving Necron, CSM, etc. And by the end, the Eldar and IoM would be at ecahother's throats again; feeding Chaos. Either Tyranids win, Chaos wins, or Necrons win. There are no other alternatives, unless the IoM can give up its insane racial prejudice and start forging diplomatic alliances with aliens; in which case it would be allying with a multitude of smaller Empires, like the Tau, and other species, like the Eldar.

**Wyzilla**

dusara217 wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
Argive wrote:
You guys do realise the only race thats ever going to "win" 40k is the nids right? by wh80kThey will just never stop and eventually devour everything...

Wat

Chaos is explictly stated to consume everything upon the destruction of the Emperor. The only two possible endings for 40K is the Eldar and Imperium teaming up and backing up their respective gods for a final showdown to smackdown all the other factions, or Chaos consuming the universe upon the destruction of the Emperor. Tyranids and Orks don't even come into the picture.

First of all, if you know anything of war, there is no such thing as a "final showdown". There are only turning points and battles. There may be a time when the other factions foolishly commit their armies to such a battle, but the Necrons would never do so unless they knew they had a high chance to win. And even then, there would still be the need to conquer each and every planet the enemy resides upon, hunt down any surviving Necron, CSM, etc. And by the end, the Eldar and IoM would be at ecahother's throats again; feeding Chaos. Either Tyranids win, Chaos wins, or Necrons win. There are no other alternatives, unless the IoM can give up its insane racial prejudice and start forging diplomatic alliances with aliens; in which case it would be allying with a multitude of smaller Empires, like the Tau, and other species, like the Eldar.

This is 40K, not real life.

Also, the Imperium is almost guaranteed to win any End of Times scenario due to them bankrolling GW. Plus the ascension of the Emperor is practically guaranteed if he's ever removed from the Throne.

**gilamonster**

Im changeing my mind i was in favour of the end of times in till i learned it all just a setup to gut the fantasy universe so i definitely don't want them to do that to 40k.

While im all for change even if my favorite factions get beat up or destroyed (dark Elder will win!) i wouldn't want to change the very fabric that is 40k.

**Iracundus**

dusara217 wrote:

All that they would have to do is make the Cadians into a form of elite IG. For instance:

The Cadian regiments had lost their homeworld, and acquired a fiery need for vengeance. As the years passed and Chaos only grew on Cadia, the numbers of Cadians in the Cadian regiments dwindled as new recruits from other worlds took their places. Yet, as time went on, the Cadian standard of excellence only rose as the Cadians asserted themselves as the greatest Guardsmen the Imperium had ever seen and distinguished themselves as such. Within a couple of decades, Cadian had nothing to do with the world of Cadia, and came to represent a fighting force so elite that only the Adeptus Astartes could rival them in combat.

The FFG RPG Only War (p. 319) has a bit where it says the Administratum is aware of at least 3 dozen worlds called Nova Cadia, presumably founded by Cadian regiments. Cadia itself is not critical for the continuation of the Cadian miniature line at all.

The original Cadia can be lost or destroyed but the Cadian miniature line can easily continue via any of these "Nova Cadia"' planets. GW could even have the last survivors from Cadia rename their new planet just Cadia, in memory of their lost homeworld.

The old Imperial Guard Codex from 3.5 edition also describes how many other worlds have adopted the Cadian uniforms and equipment, so again the Cadian miniature line can continue. The argument that the storyline cannot progress simply because Cadia's loss would invalidate a line falls apart.

**Argive**

Nids just wont stop. As they devour worlds there will be less and less emotion thus diminishing forces of chaos.. plus they kind of exist in the void between galaxies meaning that the "incursions" of so called tendrils into the 40k galaxy were most likely "feelers" looking for the best entry point. Time is irrelevant to the hive mind

I'd speculate the nid main body is akin to the size of half a galaxy at least. If you considered they might have already devoured many galaxies up to this point. Its like a cancer that is not going into remission.

I think this theory might have a hole as I am unsure how nids fare against necrons since they are abiotic. Are necrons quite numerous? can they replace/grow their numbers quickly?

**Talon of Anathrax**

Argive wrote:
Nids just wont stop. As they devour worlds there will be less and less emotion thus diminishing forces of chaos.. plus they kind of exist in the void between galaxies meaning that the "incursions" of so called tendrils into the 40k galaxy were most likely "feelers" looking for the best entry point. Time is irrelevant to the hive mind

I'd speculate the nid main body is akin to the size of half a galaxy at least. If you considered they might have already devoured many galaxies up to this point. Its like a cancer that is not going into remission.

I think this theory might have a hole as I am unsure how nids fare against necrons since they are abiotic. Are necrons quite numerous? can they replace/grow their numbers quickly?

In space battles, necrons are waaaaay better than 'Nids. They are more manoevrable, much faster (especially over long distances), and arguably have much longer-tanged firepower.
The main reason why there even are any tyranids at all is because the necrons are mostly asleep, and usually have to defend a fixed position (often a planet) at which they are at a disadvantege, as playing large space battles without Battlefleet Gothic is not really possible (and because the Necrons cannot find Hive Fleets and fight them in the empty void between galaxies, where they are at a huge advantage, especially as Deathwatch RPG established that the hive ships are mostly asleep in deep space with only a few organisms (ie tervigons and harpies) to guard them).
If the necrons allied with someone like Ahriman to guide them, under the leadership of the Silent King to unite and awake all of the tomb worlds, they could use their incredibly superior speed and Ahriman's psychic might to find, isolate and defeat each hive fleet at it's tendrils one by one.
Or the Necrons could use their thingy that destroys stars to blow up hive fleets attacking Imperial Worlds, like a super-Exterminatus (although this might destroy the entire galaxy, so they would have to emigrate like the 'nids are doing now, although they'd probably do it much better using their superior technology). Or they could replicate the stuff they used to defeat the 'Nids in Shield of Baal, everywhere.

ALthough as I'm not a necrons fanboy, I've gotta mention how unlikely that is: the Necons will probably never unite, or even put any real effort into doing this (Chaos would be a more obvious threat, for example).

**Psienesis**

Argive wrote:
Nids just wont stop. As they devour worlds there will be less and less emotion thus diminishing forces of chaos.. plus they kind of exist in the void between galaxies meaning that the "incursions" of so called tendrils into the 40k galaxy were most likely "feelers" looking for the best entry point. Time is irrelevant to the hive mind

I'd speculate the nid main body is akin to the size of half a galaxy at least. If you considered they might have already devoured many galaxies up to this point. Its like a cancer that is not going into remission.

I think this theory might have a hole as I am unsure how nids fare against necrons since they are abiotic. Are necrons quite numerous? can they replace/grow their numbers quickly?

The Necrons once ruled most of the galaxy. They have no biomass, though sleeping Tomb Worlds have been devoured. However, any fight between Tyranids and Necrons is almost always a net loss for the bugs, since Necron weapons tend to disintegrate whatever they shoot (leaving no biomass to consume again), and when they die they phase out, again leaving nothing to consume.

The idea that the Hive Fleets are just the tip of the iceberg is an in-universe theory, not a known fact. It may well be that the fleets that are here are pretty much all there is to it. Notably, the Tyranids are trying new, sneakier tactics to get into the galaxy. This does not suggest a limitless supply of soldiers... in fact, it suggests an army that now has fewer soldiers to expend on the effort than it originally had.

**Wyzilla**

Argive wrote:
Nids just wont stop. As they devour worlds there will be less and less emotion thus diminishing forces of chaos.. plus they kind of exist in the void between galaxies meaning that the "incursions" of so called tendrils into the 40k galaxy were most likely "feelers" looking for the best entry point. Time is irrelevant to the hive mind

I'd speculate the nid main body is akin to the size of half a galaxy at least. If you considered they might have already devoured many galaxies up to this point. Its like a cancer that is not going into remission.

I think this theory might have a hole as I am unsure how nids fare against necrons since they are abiotic. Are necrons quite numerous? can they replace/grow their numbers quickly?

They've only devoured twelve galaxies, and having the mass of half a galaxy would generate a black hole and kill them all. I also take it you don't understand thermodynamics, meaning that Tyranids are constantly in a race against their own hunger and they constantly suffer casualties from simply burning casualties. There is no free lunch in real-space. They need energy to sustain every single biomorph for every second it exists- they would have all starved to death by this point if they had half a goddamn galaxy's worth of mass.

I mean Jesus fething Christ, do you even know how much mass that would entail? Even being able to fit the Tyranids in a one AU by one AU cube would be absurd.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Psienesis wrote:
Argive wrote:
Nids just wont stop. As they devour worlds there will be less and less emotion thus diminishing forces of chaos.. plus they kind of exist in the void between galaxies meaning that the "incursions" of so called tendrils into the 40k galaxy were most likely "feelers" looking for the best entry point. Time is irrelevant to the hive mind

I'd speculate the nid main body is akin to the size of half a galaxy at least. If you considered they might have already devoured many galaxies up to this point. Its like a cancer that is not going into remission.

I think this theory might have a hole as I am unsure how nids fare against necrons since they are abiotic. Are necrons quite numerous? can they replace/grow their numbers quickly?

The Necrons once ruled most of the galaxy. They have no biomass, though sleeping Tomb Worlds have been devoured. However, any fight between Tyranids and Necrons is almost always a net loss for the bugs, since Necron weapons tend to disintegrate whatever they shoot (leaving no biomass to consume again), and when they die they phase out, again leaving nothing to consume.

The idea that the Hive Fleets are just the tip of the iceberg is an in-universe theory, not a known fact. It may well be that the fleets that are here are pretty much all there is to it. Notably, the Tyranids are trying new, sneakier tactics to get into the galaxy. This does not suggest a limitless supply of soldiers... in fact, it suggests an army that now has fewer soldiers to expend on the effort than it originally had.

I would almost certainly bet on the Tyranid numbers just being a bit larger then the total of all the Hive Fleets we've seen, simply given how slow Tyranid FTL is, and how ravenous their metabolism is. They'd have burnt out were they the size of half a galaxy's worth of mass.

Also, because that one Mechanicus probe that exited the Milky Way only found Ork signals, the Tyranids probably came from outside the Local Group. Meaning it would have taken them probably millions of years to reach us from outside the Local Group, some of which is certainly nfested with Orks.

**Reality-Torrent**

I'd rather not!

**Argive**

@wyzilla - 1. You're getting very upset about a very theoretical exercise concerning a universe which we use as a setting to play with toy soldiers... There is absolutely no need to be so obnoxious... but I'll play ball.

Thermo dynamics snuggest 40k universe follows our understanding of physics and biology... In which case I will just say "the warp"...

I could argue the Nids lay dormant maybe even freeze themselves in the void. It could be they are akin to demons and are actually existing within the intergalactic void as the hive mind could be a deity in their own call it "void dimension" who knows if this is true ?

Just because it does not fit into your idea of physics or your belief in the nature of the universe...or what you believe you have read in the the space marines fluff does not mean it cant be plausible...

There is no right or wrong answers.

EDIT-

In terms of fluff; short of galactic wide destruction, one race "winning" or whatever don't see how they can advance the fluff. The 40k universe is already so diverse and everyone can build their customer corner of the galaxy where what they imagine is true..

I suppose if the OLD ONES came back taht would shake things up a bit..

**Crimson Heretic**

Id be ok with a world wide event that slightly changes the fluff of the game, i feel like a world wide event where the outcome effects future models and so fourth would be interesting also..not saying a drastic oh well abbadon made it to earth and killed everything, just like oh another crusade world event..example:all the races are fighting for a new world where theres some crazy relic or resource there...keep track of the world event in some way, overall winner gets some sort of new fig tied in with the fluff of the planet..then give the other races some sort of new fig that ties in with the fluff..example: say its a very rocky deathworld named Chilli ring IV..so the IG receive a new walker tank that can move across the rocky planet...idk just my thoughts

**dusara217**

All things considered, it would be best if they would just keep progressing the Universe the way that they used to. That is, slowly. Every year in our world = 1 year in 40k. Basically, just add battles here or there, Cadia falls, Abbadon starts moving on this strategically vital planet with like 200 Chapters sending Strikeforces to it, etc. etc. It doesn't have to be some huge, drastic change of universe.

**Wyzilla**

Argive wrote:
@wyzilla - 1. You're getting very upset about a very theoretical exercise concerning a universe which we use as a setting to play with toy soldiers... There is absolutely no need to be so obnoxious... but I'll play ball.

Thermo dynamics snuggest 40k universe follows our understanding of physics and biology... In which case I will just say "the warp"...

The Warp is an alternate universe connected to 40K, and is not considered realspace. Also, outside of Zoanthropes, the Tyranids make zero use of the warp in the first place.

I could argue the Nids lay dormant

Except they don't, they're consumed, but the ships themselves cannot go into a state of dormancy when they're traveling at FTL speeds.

maybe even freeze themselves in the void.

They're going FTL

It could be they are akin to demons and are actually existing within the intergalactic void as the hive mind could be a deity in their own call it "void dimension" who knows if this is true ?

Then provide evidence via citations of the fluff or quotes. Otherwise your "ideas" as just that, and worth nothing more then fan fiction.

Just because it does not fit into your idea of physics or your belief in the nature of the universe...or what you believe you have read in the the space marines fluff does not mean it cant be plausible...

Then cite it when it occurred. There is no evidence to support Tyranids having the mass of half a galaxy, and I also doubt you actually have to knowledge to realize just how absurd that assertions is.

Just to educate you on how outlandishly absurd your idea is (I can't even put it to terms, it's just insanity argued from ignorance), let's lowball it and say the Milky Way only has a mass of 1,000,000,000,000M☉. This is in units of Solar Masses- a single Solar Mass is equal to the mass of our star, Sol, which itself has a mass of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Kilograms (that's a Nonillion). By your logic, this would mean that the Tyranids would have the mass of 500,000,000,000 Solar Masses.

So, with a straight face, you propose the Tyranids have a collective mass of 45,474,735,088,646,411,895,751,953,125 kilograms? (I haven't checked, but I'm pretty sure this is 45 Duodecillion Kilograms).

There is no right or wrong answers.

Well in your case there's also unfounded, absurd, insane ones.

**TheSilo**

Considering the whole Tanith situation, it's fairly easy to run an IG regiment even if their planet has been destroyed.

- Fall of Cadia, would be a great fluff and gameplay opportunity to give Chaos a real win in the storyline. I don't get how all these Chaos crusades have come so close to defeating the Imperium but somehow never took Cadia. As far as the modeling question, what better way to put out new goodies for people to buy than by killing off the old ones.

- Death of the Emperor, the Golden Throne fails and the galaxy is wracked by warp storms isolating the various realms of humanity. Plenty of juicy opportunities for heresy and sub-kingdoms of the Imperium. Some Marine chapters establish their own fiefs, others isolate themselves completely, others throw themselves against the oncoming hordes of Chaos.

- The Emperor Ascends, marine chapters unite and lead a new crusade to reunite mankind.

- The Tau Emerge, taking advantage of a weakened Imperium the Tau launch a massive colonization invasion. Human insurgencies force the Tau to adopt much harsher measures than they're commonly associated with.

- War Between Terra and Mars, the Mechanicus revolt in the name of the Machine God. Neither can employ planet destroying weaponry without jeapordizing their own planet.

- Orks unite into an empire of some kind, do awesome battle with Necrons and 'Nids.

- Cypher's big plan is revealed.

- Etc.

Lots of interesting ways to advance the plot, redefine the universe without ruining everything.

**r_squared**

I thought we were already in "end times" as far as the Imperium is concened, the apocalypse of the Horus Heresy has already happened, and the 40k universe is what happened afterwards.
Hope is already gone, the end times have passed, all that remains is the slow, crumbling destruction of the Imperium and the encroachment of xenos and traitorous filth.

**dusara217**

r_squared wrote:
I thought we were already in "end times" as far as the Imperium is concened, the apocalypse of the Horus Heresy has already happened, and the 40k universe is what happened afterwards.
Hope is already gone, the end times have passed, all that remains is the slow, crumbling destruction of the Imperium and the encroachment of xenos and traitorous filth.

That's true, but things are culminating into an explosive climax at 999 M41.

**TheManWithNoPlan**

Would be cool for tzeentch to get his OP megastaff back from the blue scribes and overpower the other gods to ally the opposing forces of chaos to march on the imperium/eldar.

Imperium and Eldar would team up, Tau would join (rather obligatory really) and Orks would do their own thing to kill the encroaching forces.

I'd like to see something similar, but also not kill so many characters/support the pre-end times games if people want to play the dead characters.

**Asherian Command**

Dark Lord Seanron made a thread about this but he wrote a story about it. And made it quite awesome.

One of the things I really think should happen is progression of the story.

The fall of Cadia being something that would be quite epic and would give a lot of character to Creed and the Cadians.

Chaos would also get a win.

It would be interesting to see a more desperate imperium. Where it starts to forgo certain things and start allying xenos races. I would like to see an end to the third war of armaggedon. I would like to see Gazhkull rally more orks. I would like to see new characters. I would like to see rivalries end and new ones begin. I would like to see some chapters fall and others rise.

I would like to see new marks of power armor.

I would like to see progression that is meaningful but not changing the overall desperation of the story. To make it so that it actually happening and allowing us more material to work with.

FAnfiction is most often universally bad. As I have written my fair share of horrible HORRIBLE fanfiction. Before moving on and making my own I often considered what would happen if 40k moved on. I considered it interesting, as I had written a contigency plan. One of my chapters would die, while the other one that had become so unlucky took that now deceased chapters place and their luck turned for the better.

I thought about what about other people's chapters I don't think there would be much change there would be allowing for new lore. Hell it would be interesting to see WHAT IF stories as told by GW and the Black Liby or hell even from forgeworld.

Fanfiction my friends is usually terrible, At least with GW there is some degree of common ground.

**Talon of Anathrax**

Wyzilla wrote:
Argive wrote:
Nids just wont stop. As they devour worlds there will be less and less emotion thus diminishing forces of chaos.. plus they kind of exist in the void between galaxies meaning that the "incursions" of so called tendrils into the 40k galaxy were most likely "feelers" looking for the best entry point. Time is irrelevant to the hive mind

I'd speculate the nid main body is akin to the size of half a galaxy at least. If you considered they might have already devoured many galaxies up to this point. Its like a cancer that is not going into remission.

I think this theory might have a hole as I am unsure how nids fare against necrons since they are abiotic. Are necrons quite numerous? can they replace/grow their numbers quickly?

They've only devoured twelve galaxies, and having the mass of half a galaxy would generate a black hole and kill them all. I also take it you don't understand thermodynamics, meaning that Tyranids are constantly in a race against their own hunger and they constantly suffer casualties from simply burning casualties. There is no free lunch in real-space. They need energy to sustain every single biomorph for every second it exists- they would have all starved to death by this point if they had half a goddamn galaxy's worth of mass.

I mean Jesus fething Christ, do you even know how much mass that would entail? Even being able to fit the Tyranids in a one AU by one AU cube would be absurd.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Psienesis wrote:
Argive wrote:
Nids just wont stop. As they devour worlds there will be less and less emotion thus diminishing forces of chaos.. plus they kind of exist in the void between galaxies meaning that the "incursions" of so called tendrils into the 40k galaxy were most likely "feelers" looking for the best entry point. Time is irrelevant to the hive mind

I'd speculate the nid main body is akin to the size of half a galaxy at least. If you considered they might have already devoured many galaxies up to this point. Its like a cancer that is not going into remission.

I think this theory might have a hole as I am unsure how nids fare against necrons since they are abiotic. Are necrons quite numerous? can they replace/grow their numbers quickly?

The Necrons once ruled most of the galaxy. They have no biomass, though sleeping Tomb Worlds have been devoured. However, any fight between Tyranids and Necrons is almost always a net loss for the bugs, since Necron weapons tend to disintegrate whatever they shoot (leaving no biomass to consume again), and when they die they phase out, again leaving nothing to consume.

The idea that the Hive Fleets are just the tip of the iceberg is an in-universe theory, not a known fact. It may well be that the fleets that are here are pretty much all there is to it. Notably, the Tyranids are trying new, sneakier tactics to get into the galaxy. This does not suggest a limitless supply of soldiers... in fact, it suggests an army that now has fewer soldiers to expend on the effort than it originally had.

I would almost certainly bet on the Tyranid numbers just being a bit larger then the total of all the Hive Fleets we've seen, simply given how slow Tyranid FTL is, and how ravenous their metabolism is. They'd have burnt out were they the size of half a galaxy's worth of mass.

Also, because that one Mechanicus probe that exited the Milky Way only found Ork signals, the Tyranids probably came from outside the Local Group. Meaning it would have taken them probably millions of years to reach us from outside the Local Group, some of which is certainly nfested with Orks.

It's been established that tyranids hibernate in the void between galaxies: most of them would not have starved.
However, this could be their weakness: if someone keeps them awake in the void (like, say, the excellent necron fleets or huge imperial armadas with a good leader), they could be made to starve.
This would work exceptionally well combineds with an exterminatus cordon like what Kryptman did.

**Wyzilla**

Talon of Anathrax wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
Argive wrote:
Nids just wont stop. As they devour worlds there will be less and less emotion thus diminishing forces of chaos.. plus they kind of exist in the void between galaxies meaning that the "incursions" of so called tendrils into the 40k galaxy were most likely "feelers" looking for the best entry point. Time is irrelevant to the hive mind

I'd speculate the nid main body is akin to the size of half a galaxy at least. If you considered they might have already devoured many galaxies up to this point. Its like a cancer that is not going into remission.

I think this theory might have a hole as I am unsure how nids fare against necrons since they are abiotic. Are necrons quite numerous? can they replace/grow their numbers quickly?

They've only devoured twelve galaxies, and having the mass of half a galaxy would generate a black hole and kill them all. I also take it you don't understand thermodynamics, meaning that Tyranids are constantly in a race against their own hunger and they constantly suffer casualties from simply burning casualties. There is no free lunch in real-space. They need energy to sustain every single biomorph for every second it exists- they would have all starved to death by this point if they had half a goddamn galaxy's worth of mass.

I mean Jesus fething Christ, do you even know how much mass that would entail? Even being able to fit the Tyranids in a one AU by one AU cube would be absurd.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Psienesis wrote:
Argive wrote:
Nids just wont stop. As they devour worlds there will be less and less emotion thus diminishing forces of chaos.. plus they kind of exist in the void between galaxies meaning that the "incursions" of so called tendrils into the 40k galaxy were most likely "feelers" looking for the best entry point. Time is irrelevant to the hive mind

I'd speculate the nid main body is akin to the size of half a galaxy at least. If you considered they might have already devoured many galaxies up to this point. Its like a cancer that is not going into remission.

I think this theory might have a hole as I am unsure how nids fare against necrons since they are abiotic. Are necrons quite numerous? can they replace/grow their numbers quickly?

The Necrons once ruled most of the galaxy. They have no biomass, though sleeping Tomb Worlds have been devoured. However, any fight between Tyranids and Necrons is almost always a net loss for the bugs, since Necron weapons tend to disintegrate whatever they shoot (leaving no biomass to consume again), and when they die they phase out, again leaving nothing to consume.

The idea that the Hive Fleets are just the tip of the iceberg is an in-universe theory, not a known fact. It may well be that the fleets that are here are pretty much all there is to it. Notably, the Tyranids are trying new, sneakier tactics to get into the galaxy. This does not suggest a limitless supply of soldiers... in fact, it suggests an army that now has fewer soldiers to expend on the effort than it originally had.

I would almost certainly bet on the Tyranid numbers just being a bit larger then the total of all the Hive Fleets we've seen, simply given how slow Tyranid FTL is, and how ravenous their metabolism is. They'd have burnt out were they the size of half a galaxy's worth of mass.

Also, because that one Mechanicus probe that exited the Milky Way only found Ork signals, the Tyranids probably came from outside the Local Group. Meaning it would have taken them probably millions of years to reach us from outside the Local Group, some of which is certainly nfested with Orks.

It's been established that tyranids hibernate in the void between galaxies: most of them would not have starved.
However, this could be their weakness: if someone keeps them awake in the void (like, say, the excellent necron fleets or huge imperial armadas with a good leader), they could be made to starve.
This would work exceptionally well combineds with an exterminatus cordon like what Kryptman did.

No, only a small amount of biomorphs inside the ships that serve as their immune system hibernate. The majority are dissolved and absorbed back into the fleet. The ships however still need constant energy to support them, especially given how poorly designed the entire concepts of organic technology is.

**Talon of Anathrax**

Wyzilla wrote:
Talon of Anathrax wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
Argive wrote:
Nids just wont stop. As they devour worlds there will be less and less emotion thus diminishing forces of chaos.. plus they kind of exist in the void between galaxies meaning that the "incursions" of so called tendrils into the 40k galaxy were most likely "feelers" looking for the best entry point. Time is irrelevant to the hive mind

I'd speculate the nid main body is akin to the size of half a galaxy at least. If you considered they might have already devoured many galaxies up to this point. Its like a cancer that is not going into remission.

I think this theory might have a hole as I am unsure how nids fare against necrons since they are abiotic. Are necrons quite numerous? can they replace/grow their numbers quickly?

They've only devoured twelve galaxies, and having the mass of half a galaxy would generate a black hole and kill them all. I also take it you don't understand thermodynamics, meaning that Tyranids are constantly in a race against their own hunger and they constantly suffer casualties from simply burning casualties. There is no free lunch in real-space. They need energy to sustain every single biomorph for every second it exists- they would have all starved to death by this point if they had half a goddamn galaxy's worth of mass.

I mean Jesus fething Christ, do you even know how much mass that would entail? Even being able to fit the Tyranids in a one AU by one AU cube would be absurd.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Psienesis wrote:
Argive wrote:
Nids just wont stop. As they devour worlds there will be less and less emotion thus diminishing forces of chaos.. plus they kind of exist in the void between galaxies meaning that the "incursions" of so called tendrils into the 40k galaxy were most likely "feelers" looking for the best entry point. Time is irrelevant to the hive mind

I'd speculate the nid main body is akin to the size of half a galaxy at least. If you considered they might have already devoured many galaxies up to this point. Its like a cancer that is not going into remission.

I think this theory might have a hole as I am unsure how nids fare against necrons since they are abiotic. Are necrons quite numerous? can they replace/grow their numbers quickly?

The Necrons once ruled most of the galaxy. They have no biomass, though sleeping Tomb Worlds have been devoured. However, any fight between Tyranids and Necrons is almost always a net loss for the bugs, since Necron weapons tend to disintegrate whatever they shoot (leaving no biomass to consume again), and when they die they phase out, again leaving nothing to consume.

The idea that the Hive Fleets are just the tip of the iceberg is an in-universe theory, not a known fact. It may well be that the fleets that are here are pretty much all there is to it. Notably, the Tyranids are trying new, sneakier tactics to get into the galaxy. This does not suggest a limitless supply of soldiers... in fact, it suggests an army that now has fewer soldiers to expend on the effort than it originally had.

I would almost certainly bet on the Tyranid numbers just being a bit larger then the total of all the Hive Fleets we've seen, simply given how slow Tyranid FTL is, and how ravenous their metabolism is. They'd have burnt out were they the size of half a galaxy's worth of mass.

Also, because that one Mechanicus probe that exited the Milky Way only found Ork signals, the Tyranids probably came from outside the Local Group. Meaning it would have taken them probably millions of years to reach us from outside the Local Group, some of which is certainly nfested with Orks.

It's been established that tyranids hibernate in the void between galaxies: most of them would not have starved.
However, this could be their weakness: if someone keeps them awake in the void (like, say, the excellent necron fleets or huge imperial armadas with a good leader), they could be made to starve.
This would work exceptionally well combineds with an exterminatus cordon like what Kryptman did.

No, only a small amount of biomorphs inside the ships that serve as their immune system hibernate. The majority are dissolved and absorbed back into the fleet. The ships however still need constant energy to support them, especially given how poorly designed the entire concepts of organic technology is.

No, I meant the bioships themselves!
They use their weird gravity-based propulsion systems to find a target planet and get started, and then they just move in their sleep while hibernating.

**CREEEEEEEEED**

Hezus Christ Wyzilla, stop spouting random crap about 'Nids like you know everything in this entirely fictional universe, where even we the real people don't know everything inside the fictional universe.
As put very well by a GW employee- "If we were to simply have BL write fluff for the unknown 2nd and 11th Legions, then they would be one fixed thing, whereas if we leave it unknown to even us people in the real universe, then it can be any random theory, and surely that is on balance better." And I have to agree with him.
(See, I'm using the enter button, so calm down)
We only know what the Imperium knows, for the most part of 40k, and the Imperium knows barely anything about most things, including 'nids.
So please stop making huge putdowns of other people's ideas like you're the Hive Mind itself and know everything about the 'nids and how none of it can be true.

**Wyzilla**

CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
Hezus Christ Wyzilla, stop spouting random crap about 'Nids like you know everything in this entirely fictional universe, where even we the real people don't know everything inside the fictional universe.
As put very well by a GW employee- "If we were to simply have BL write fluff for the unknown 2nd and 11th Legions, then they would be one fixed thing, whereas if we leave it unknown to even us people in the real universe, then it can be any random theory, and surely that is on balance better." And I have to agree with him.
(See, I'm using the enter button, so calm down)
We only know what the Imperium knows, for the most part of 40k, and the Imperium knows barely anything about most things, including 'nids.
So please stop making huge putdowns of other people's ideas like you're the Hive Mind itself and know everything about the 'nids and how none of it can be true.

I'll continue to make "putdowns" when people spout asinine bs that makes less sense then the Dawn of War tie-in novels with backflipping temrinators. If you state something without even bothering to think of the implications, you have every right to be hit with a counterargument.

Especially when people spout random bs that isn't even supported anywhere in the fluff, and don't even bother to use citations or quotes to back up any of their word. Especially something as absurd as "half a galaxy's worth of nids". That's probably the most insane fan theory I've read on this entire forum.

But of course if you want to support his argument with quotes and/or citations of material backing up the Tyranids having decillions of biomass, you're welcome to.

**Asherian Command**

I'll continue to make "putdowns" when people spout asinine bs that makes less sense then the Dawn of War tie-in novels with backflipping temrinators. If you state something without even bothering to think of the implications, you have every right to be hit with a counterargument.

Especially when people spout random bs that isn't even supported anywhere in the fluff, and don't even bother to use citations or quotes to back up any of their word. Especially something as absurd as "half a galaxy's worth of nids". That's probably the most insane fan theory I've read on this entire forum.

But of course if you want to support his argument with quotes and/or citations of material backing up the Tyranids having decillions of biomass, you're welcome to.

I think this works on several threads on here XD

I for one would love to see the end times. Anyone?

Anyone O.o

**Soo'Vah'Cha**

I assumed this was the end times in 40k...lol

**Asherian Command**

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
I assumed this was the end times in 40k...lol

Its been stuck at midnight for 20 years.