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The story has moved from the 13th black crusade.... Like 12 years ago. I would love to see some of the storyline progress.

It will make the game more interesting.

It actually moved back to the beginning of the 13th BC. GW didn't want the storyline moving forward in the way the results of the campaign dictated that it move forward.

 Psienesis wrote:
It actually moved back to the beginning of the 13th BC. GW didn't want the storyline moving forward in the way the results of the campaign dictated that it move forward.

Yet ironically that is precisely how they seem to be moving it forward anyway since they are playing up the grimdark and saying the Imperium is getting more pressured. They should have just gone with the campaign results if what they are doing is much the same.

I think that a 40K end times would have a different effect on 40k than it does on Warhammer. Firstly this can be deduced from examining the differences in the different settings (!). Warhammer seemed to have a more 'stagnant' setting, the boundaries of each of the races were well set out, and incursions into another races lands are inevitably broken and land is recovered (with the exception of the dwarves, but even then they still have territory that is (mostly) set out).

However in the vast 40k environment we see that the territories of the races are constantly evolving. Where the Empire at the time just before the End Times, were guaranteed to hold their major towns like Altdorf and Nuln, the Imperium constantly loses and regains worlds, the Necron territory is fractured and scattered, Eldar have been forced to adopt a nomadic lifestyle with their Craftworlds. Tyranids don't really have territory they just OMNOMNOM, Orks are scattered but strong etc.

And then there is the issue of the scale of each of these settings. Fantasy's environment is MUCH smaller than 40k's. So in short, where the advancements made in Fantasy are so concentrated they can all be collected under the title of END TIMES, but the 40k advancements are slightly more set out. To have such a change in the 40k environment in the same scale of Fantasy all at once, with such changes, it would be too overwhelming and wouldnt work.

So in short, 40k End Times are already happening. They're just the short little mission's we're having; cue SHIELD OF BAAL.

 Stormonu wrote:
I'd prefer an alternate - call it "Visions of the End". A series of "what ifs" dredged from the Black Library, penned by the greatest Farseer of the Eldar. Each book is a vision of which way the Runes of Fate may fall. It pits you in a 12-tiered battle branched campaign as the ultimate lord of one of the two main races in each book, or one of the lesser allies attempting to ensure the survival of your race. The result of each battle swings the balance of fate of each closer towards doom or salvation. Each victory brings the winner closer to his goal, but breeds greater and greater desperation to the loser.

Book 1 - The End of Man: Chaos returns to the homeworld led by Abbadon; as the battle rages on Terra the fate of the Emperor is decided - will the worship of the Emperor dictate he be reborn whole to fend off the legions or will he succumb to become yet another God of Chaos?

Book 2 - Doom of the Eldar: Slaneesh is calling. Through the century it has hunted the Eldar and now it can contain its hunger no longer. The Dark Eldar have unwittingly fallen to the wiles of Slaneesh, and if it has its way it will slake its thirst on both races - and any that fall between it and its prey.

Book 3 - The Devoured Universe: The main thrust of the Tyranid Hive Fleet reaches the galaxy. The Necrons are fully awake; they refuse to allow the universe to fall before they reconquer it. C'tan shards battle Norn Queens and the true terror of both races unfolds as the rest of the galaxy is drawn into the battle.

Book 4 - The Green Tide: Ghazgul unearths an astonishing weapon of the Elder Gods; a weapon that transforms the already war-like race into a savage, murderous Waaagh! The Tau, the last secret ploy of the Elder Gods possess the only secret to stop Ghazguul's reign of terror - if they can unlock the secrets buried away in their racial genes - a secret hidden in the origin of the traitorous Farsight Enclave.

While I might quibble over the details I would be very down with this concept.
1. It could lead to campaign books and new lists - ala FOW (think late war).
2. I'd like to see one where the IMperium fragments, science restarts and the Empire is reborn Ascendant - aka we need at least one where the humans actually win. you could even piss every one off and make everything all part of certain Farseer's plan
3. Same as 2 for the Eldar. I want a book where they restart their empire, find a way to defeat the necron, or somehow are able to escape the galaxy altogether.

I say advance the plot, but maybe not by a large increment. There's plenty of things GW has foreshadowed, maybe they could finally act on one of them. Perhaps Chaos launches a massive invasion but their only halfway between Terra and the Eye of Terror. Somewhere on the other side of the galaxy, a significant Imperium character (a returning Primarch for example) finds a device to resurrect the Emperor but has to fight his way across the galaxy first. More Craftworlds die and this results in Ynnead arising in the Warp. The first of the main Tyranid Hive Fleets arrive. Something that moves the plot at least a couple more steps forwards instead of leaving you suspense

 skarnalaxwarlord wrote:
I say advance the plot, but maybe not by a large increment. There's plenty of things GW has foreshadowed, maybe they could finally act on one of them. Perhaps Chaos launches a massive invasion but their only halfway between Terra and the Eye of Terror. Somewhere on the other side of the galaxy, a significant Imperium character (a returning Primarch for example) finds a device to resurrect the Emperor but has to fight his way across the galaxy first. More Craftworlds die and this results in Ynnead arising in the Warp. The first of the main Tyranid Hive Fleets arrive. Something that moves the plot at least a couple more steps forwards instead of leaving you suspense

If do so, I'd like them to include the other, less ingrained faction more and give them a place in the overarching plot of the unverse. Like, Necrons are mentioned to maybe be helping against Chaos on Cadia, but never does a thing in that... It would be cool if they finally act on it, instead of jsut being, you know, another threat. Same with Tau, and to some extend Dark Eldar.

40k tabletop is already running under the assumption your battles could be happening pretty much any time between a while after the Heresy and "now". An advanced timeline could only be a good thing if you bear that in mind.

You get more eras to play in, more fluff to work with, and if you figure it sucks too bad... M41 is still there.

The problem with the End Times is....well, you're pushed the Apocalypse closer...but neither 40k or Fantasy will ever END. The End Times will be a forever thing. There will only be so much catastrophe you can do until everything is done. And unless GW goes under and takes things out with a bang, things will just never FINISH, and what's the point of moving forward if you never FINISH?

I'm not picky.

If its done well, I'm happy. As long as its better than Murder McMurderMurder.

If they do an End Times for 40k, then I just hope they do it slowly. They could just have different wars and battles decided by the players, similar to how they did the 13th Black Crusade, except for across several summers. First the battle on Cadia occurs, then some battles on its moons, then some battles in a bunch of other places throughout the Cadian system as the Imperials struggle to stem the tides. They could (maybe) have the Necrons and the Eldar come in on the Imperials' side, just to make it more difficult for the CSM bastards to win.

 dusara217 wrote:
If they do an End Times for 40k, then I just hope they do it slowly. They could just have different wars and battles decided by the players, similar to how they did the 13th Black Crusade, except for across several summers. First the battle on Cadia occurs, then some battles on its moons, then some battles in a bunch of other places throughout the Cadian system as the Imperials struggle to stem the tides. They could (maybe) have the Necrons and the Eldar come in on the Imperials' side, just to make it more difficult for the CSM bastards to win.

... And Daemons joining CSM to show some support to our favourite traitors! Orks joining the fight, fighting anything they get close to, maybe Tau joining in through some Eldar manipulation...

I voted Yes, because I interpreted the question as:

"Do you want all Chaos, all Elves and all Space Marines folded together as a total of 3 Codices, rather than the hodgepodge of things we currently have?"

I would love to see GW fold Templars, Wolves, Angels of Death, etc. all under ONE Codex with minimal differentiation. Same with all Chaos together. And one book of Space Elves. Keep it simple for playing sake.

In all honesty, i really like what the end times stuff is doing for fantasy, but I don't think its something that 40k needs right now. Fantasy needed a shot in the arm, despite the fact that it is a really great game with alot of fans worldwide. It tends to be overshadowed by 40k. It always seems as though the two games mirror each other too much, with obvious analogues for most the factions in both games. I think the end times is really cool for taking WFB and giving it something 40k doesn't have, and End Times is really cool for that fact. As for story supplements in 40k, I think the campaign books such as leviathan are doing just fine, they can even be used to advance story. But i think end times should remain solely WFB.

I think that it would be pretty cool. There are a lot of concepts that are really cool that don't get explored, and a lot of open questions i would like to see explored.

I think that GW could easily set the 'end times' some point in the future, and still have plenty of room in the 'current' setting to explore possible story lines. After all, it's a big universe.

And really I just wanna see what happened to all the loyalist primarchs.

It is far to late for wh40k.

Convert to Horus Heresy!

And really I just wanna see what happened to all the loyalist primarchs.

They die. That is what the End Times means for 40K. It's already written that way. These are the tales of the twilight of mankind. Maybe they go out with a bang or maybe they go out with a whimper, but in either case, out they go.

If done similar to the piece of fanfic known as the Time of Ending, I think it would be awesome. Some tweaks would be needed to get it up to date with current fluff, but it would be wicked.

Then again, our Darklord Seanron is at it again with something good (thus far) here

 Psienesis wrote:

And really I just wanna see what happened to all the loyalist primarchs.

They die. That is what the End Times means for 40K. It's already written that way. These are the tales of the twilight of mankind. Maybe they go out with a bang or maybe they go out with a whimper, but in either case, out they go.

Yep. Grimdark doesn't work if things get better in the end.
Which is why it never ends and the Emperor is reborn and the chaos gods manifest in the materium with slight limitations on their powers but just enough to make them incapable of doing stuff like creating planets!
Man, I don't know if I've ever written a run-on before that, so maybe I'm all caught up with the status quo.

I just read ALL of this. There’s a lot of good thoughts, but there’s a lot of “keep it just like 40k only moar!” talk happening, and I’m not sure that’s a particularly good thing. 30k games are distinct from 40k games. With their own related settings and characters, yes, but distinct. I think the envelope needs to be pushed even further for the next chapter of the story. Take it all the way to 50k if you have to. You can still keep the same models and rules and everything else, the universe has just moved forward and brought new story with it. Drastically. Just like the leap from 30k to 40k (only in the right order, development-wise). And there’s another ten thousand years of fluff to develop. Especially for non-Terran races.
The 30k galaxy and the 40k galaxy are very similar, and the 50k universe can be the same way. If you view the story as 40k being the “end times” of 30k, then 50k could be the “end times” of 40k. Frankly, having read way too many books, here’s what I’d like to see.

Chaos is knocking on Terra’s doorstep. 2nd siege of Terra. Get there however you want. Get the Eldar there. They’ve been growing in numbers for fluff reasons. Abbadon is crushing his way toward the golden throne when (insert fluff here) Sanguineous shows up and saves the emperor yet again by slaying Abbadon. (more fluff here) out walks the Emperor. Everyone cheers (chaos aside). Except the Emperor does absolutely nothing. He ascends to the warp and becomes the benevolent counterpoint to the warp gods, pulling strings around the galaxy in an eternal game of chess. Of course, nobody realizes this. Sanguineous included. The emperor just poofs and everyone just has a pause-battle-wtf moment.
Chaos is beaten back but with a now expanded Eye of Terror.

Meanwhile, back at Baal, Dante loses his cool when he discovers he’s not the golden boy to save the emperor and succumbs to the Black Rage. Mephiston steps in to lead the Blood Angels against the Tyranids. Necrons help, but cut and run at some critical moment, leaving the Blood Angels and whoever else wants some fluff (insert waaag here) to beat back the Tyranids.

Necrons cut and ran because they want to take over the universe and don’t’ think squishy humans and bugs can stop them anyway. But a certain rapidly evolving race of Tau could if they’re not nipped in the bud. Battles ensue. Of course, the Tau kick way more @$$ than anyone expects, steal a bunch of Necron tech and conquer a massive chunk of the galaxy right out from under the recovering empire.

All said and done, Sanguineous is leading what’s left of Terra in an effort to recover, and launches another crusade to find whatever primarchs are still living and regain lost planets. Like everyone else, he has only a vague idea what happened to the Emperor and wants to gather the remaining Primarchs to find out.

Tau are everywhere and expanding like crazy. Chaos is still running rampant around the galaxy under new leadership (lost primarch? Preferably someone we all thought was a good-guy). Nids are a scattered mess, but they’re everywhere. Necrons are pissed and looking for long-lost weapons to kill everyone with. Eldar are brimming out of the Webway ready to do whatever it is Eldar do. Orks got their deus ex machina moment and the waaag ends… for now.

Or, you know, something like that.

Everyone keeps their models, gets some new ones, and another 10k years of fluff ensues.

Oh yeah... and GW makes a $#!T ton of money on books and new models and terrain boards.

Emperor: *dies*

(5 minutes later as psykers galaxy-wide are exploding or turning into warp portals or going insane and using their powers at ridiculous new levels...)

Emperor: "What? Hmm? What the- Wait, no physical body, infinite cosmic power sans itty-bitty living space... oh, feth me. Well, best fix a few things first..."

(Warp portals close, people get strange urges to go clean up the psykers' splodey-headedness, surviving psykers hope their bouts of insanity didn't get uploaded to Youtubicus Interneticus)

Lorgar: "Ha! I knew it! I knew it! I was right, Dad!"

Emperor: "Oh, bloody hell."

Lorgar: "Say it! I was right, Dad, you were wrong!"

Emperor: "Look, just because I've become God doesn't mean anyone should worship me, so just stuff it. And wipe your face off."

Lorgar: "Oh, come off it, Dad! You could at least admit for one time in your life that I was right! I was right, you were wrong, you really were a divine being. And maybe you could apologize for wrecking my planet and its awesome churches and temples?"

Emperor: "You do understand, Lorgar, that being God means never having to say you're sorry."

Lorgar: "Say what."

Emperor: "As we said millennia ago: Son, I am disappoint." *SMITE* "Well, time to check on the rest of the boys- HOLY MOTHER OF ME HOW DID THIS GET SO FAR OFF TRACK?"

The main problem with a large scale chaos invasion is cadia. Cadians move too many units in sales to be changed or discontinued, unless they were relocated. But then they wouldn't cadians.

 tekno000 wrote:
I just read ALL of this. There’s a lot of good thoughts, but there’s a lot of “keep it just like 40k only moar!” talk happening, and I’m not sure that’s a particularly good thing. 30k games are distinct from 40k games. With their own related settings and characters, yes, but distinct. I think the envelope needs to be pushed even further for the next chapter of the story. Take it all the way to 50k if you have to. You can still keep the same models and rules and everything else, the universe has just moved forward and brought new story with it. Drastically. Just like the leap from 30k to 40k (only in the right order, development-wise). And there’s another ten thousand years of fluff to develop. Especially for non-Terran races.
The 30k galaxy and the 40k galaxy are very similar, and the 50k universe can be the same way. If you view the story as 40k being the “end times” of 30k, then 50k could be the “end times” of 40k. Frankly, having read way too many books, here’s what I’d like to see.

Chaos is knocking on Terra’s doorstep. 2nd siege of Terra. Get there however you want. Get the Eldar there. They’ve been growing in numbers for fluff reasons. Abbadon is crushing his way toward the golden throne when (insert fluff here) Sanguineous shows up and saves the emperor yet again by slaying Abbadon. (more fluff here) out walks the Emperor. Everyone cheers (chaos aside). Except the Emperor does absolutely nothing. He ascends to the warp and becomes the benevolent counterpoint to the warp gods, pulling strings around the galaxy in an eternal game of chess. Of course, nobody realizes this. Sanguineous included. The emperor just poofs and everyone just has a pause-battle-wtf moment.
Chaos is beaten back but with a now expanded Eye of Terror.

Meanwhile, back at Baal, Dante loses his cool when he discovers he’s not the golden boy to save the emperor and succumbs to the Black Rage. Mephiston steps in to lead the Blood Angels against the Tyranids. Necrons help, but cut and run at some critical moment, leaving the Blood Angels and whoever else wants some fluff (insert waaag here) to beat back the Tyranids.

Necrons cut and ran because they want to take over the universe and don’t’ think squishy humans and bugs can stop them anyway. But a certain rapidly evolving race of Tau could if they’re not nipped in the bud. Battles ensue. Of course, the Tau kick way more @$$ than anyone expects, steal a bunch of Necron tech and conquer a massive chunk of the galaxy right out from under the recovering empire.

All said and done, Sanguineous is leading what’s left of Terra in an effort to recover, and launches another crusade to find whatever primarchs are still living and regain lost planets. Like everyone else, he has only a vague idea what happened to the Emperor and wants to gather the remaining Primarchs to find out.

Tau are everywhere and expanding like crazy. Chaos is still running rampant around the galaxy under new leadership (lost primarch? Preferably someone we all thought was a good-guy). Nids are a scattered mess, but they’re everywhere. Necrons are pissed and looking for long-lost weapons to kill everyone with. Eldar are brimming out of the Webway ready to do whatever it is Eldar do. Orks got their deus ex machina moment and the waaag ends… for now.

Or, you know, something like that.

Everyone keeps their models, gets some new ones, and another 10k years of fluff ensues.

Oh yeah... and GW makes a $#!T ton of money on books and new models and terrain boards.

You forgot lion el jonson

Only on 2 conditions -

Goodies for Necrons. I'm talking titan sized warmachines and doomsday devices.

The Emperor is placed inside of a Emperor Class Titan (heh), and uses it to fight the enemies of the Imperium.
Best boss battle ever.

Well, I suppose my answer would be yes and no.

Yes, because the 'grimmy grim darkness of the not so pleasant future' line is getting less interesting as time goes on, and I feel some change could bring some interesting stuff to the universe. That being said, the last time I heard someone going on about change, everyone just ended up cranky and covered in feathers and tentacles, so there is that.

No, because they've set the narrative up so that there isn't just one straw that could end up busting the camels back, there's 40, and if any one of them goes than the entire universe will go BOOM. Doesn't exactly lend itself well to advancement. Especially considering that, if GW retconned the universe to where that wasn't the case, no matter what GW'd do, someone's (probably more than just one 'someone') faction would get the short end of the stick, meaning a proverbial poo pot of PO'd neckbeards with itchy key-fingers.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Weren't the clones mentally unstable and insane though? And not in the way that Kharn is insane, talking jibbering wreck of a man insane due to not having the connection of a soul/presence in the warp.

Abbaddon did not best a Horus in his prime, or just one without combat experience, he essentially defeated a 10 ft man with the mental age of a 3 year old irish setter.

A recent black library novel dealt with the Horus clone and I remember it being pretty perfect, it was even wearing horus' armour and was fighting with his mace worldbreaker. I don't remember how much dialogue It had but it was lucid enough to recognise Abbadon. It certainly wasn't insane in a childish way.

On topic, I really don't want a 40k end times, there's so much room for apocalyptic events already. Plus 40k is a setting, not a really drawn out story. I'd be happy if it stayed all 2 minutes to midnight forever.

 Smacks wrote:

 Coldstream wrote:
No real need for it to "advance" which ultimately would just translate to "Here's a bunch more new books and models you need to buy."

That is going to happen regardless. I'd feel a lot better about buying 'Codex Space Marines' for the 15th time if they actually changed something significant, instead of just retelling the same tired fluff that I read 20 years ago.

I'm all for this! End times, kill the emperor, blow the lid off the lost legions, bring back squats!

I vote no for end times. the emperor will never die.



For the emperor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Only on 2 conditions -

Goodies for Necrons. I'm talking titan sized warmachines and doomsday devices.

The Emperor is placed inside of a Emperor Class Titan (heh), and uses it to fight the enemies of the Imperium.
Best boss battle ever.

man, that sounds awesome. A dreadnaught won't do for the emperor, just place him inside of a titan.
Let's do it!!!!!

You guys do realise the only race thats ever going to "win" 40k is the nids right? by wh80kThey will just never stop and eventually devour everything...

 Argive wrote:
You guys do realise the only race thats ever going to "win" 40k is the nids right? by wh80kThey will just never stop and eventually devour everything...

Yes. That's what makes 40K so dark - we know that it's going tits up at some point, and that every action at this point is done to prolong that. That's why an End Times would be fun - We'll get to see what the different factions will do when it's really getting close to the end of everything.

If the rumours about Fantasy are anything to go by...

The Emperor is killed and released from his body, does battle with the Chaos Gods and sunders the universe into hundreds of pockets of reality.

Occasionally these collide and the different factions fight when they do...


This of course means that you will now have Lizardmen fighting Space Marines while the Empire does battle with the Dark Eldar. Orks will be fighting Orcs and Tyranids will take one look at the galaxy and think 'feth this' and go elsewhere for a burger


Or some rubbish like that