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I'm curious how many units are going to have Clan keywords/traits. Like, what happens if only vehicles can get Evil Sunz traits? It would incentiviize Trukk boyz, yeah? Or whatever.

 koooaei wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Those traits seem rather lacking in quality, usefulness and creativity. So while I am hoping that they aren't real I am rather worried that this fits the build for recent ork releases, uninspired and crappy.

Fingers crossed they hired someone who understands the ork army AND knows how to write.

Could you suggest a number of traits that don't lack in quality, usefullness and creativity and are balanced?

I agree, 90% of the wish-listed clan traits over the last year have been no more creative than these.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Anvildude wrote:
I'm curious how many units are going to have Clan keywords/traits. Like, what happens if only vehicles can get Evil Sunz traits? It would incentiviize Trukk boyz, yeah? Or whatever.

I don't think they would move far from the index in that regard, maybe opening flash gits to other klans than freebootas. I somehow doubt that snakebites would give FNP to vehicles though.

hey,maybe we will get a system like the deldar, being able to get multiple clans for cool detachments. ork fluff on waaaghs is when clans can ignore their rivalry's to band together to cromp other gits.

it would be like having our own pool of allies.

it seems Gw is more and more willing to experiment with such things with them doing the cool cabal cand covens mix matching and now the new space wolf sagas.

a cool system would be a "choose your waaaagh" that gives us back our once a game waaagh ability but gives us different variants to best suit our play styles.
dakka waaaagh (reroll all shooting?)
charging waaaaagh (extra charge dice?)
more punchy waaaagh (more atacks or better ws?)
burny waaagh (reroll all flamer hits or better rend?)
wierd waaagh (whatever this is, it would be realy weird, like tunring the enemy warlord into a squig random table stuff?)

Got a game after a long break with orks. With hour earlier start time felt that with movement trays and hour more time it might be worth it rather than usual 2 turn games in earlier times...

Anyway with next week tournament brought that list which was warboss with 6+++ and MW choppa, 2 weirdboys with da jump, KFF mek, 4x30 boyz, 2x30+2x10+19 grots and 3KMK. Also took in 2k list that was same + Ghaz, 25 stormboyz and painboy(ugh. I hate FNP as it slows down game if I face multi damage weapons but ah well) as 2k is standard here. As it is that's what I ended up playing vs rather mild DA gunline. 2 reroll wound HQ's, lib, 2x10 tax squads with heavy bolters and plasma's, 10xdevastators with 4 plasma, 2x5 scouts(one with bolters and hb, one with sniper rifles), 2 dreds(lascannon+missile and assault cannon+fist), rhino, twin lascannon razorback, 2 predators with heavy bolters and autocannon, 5 bikes.

Scenario was the one "get 10 maelstrom goals completed first" and we played sideways which was bad for me. Huge distance to gunline and he can defend in depth and I had very narrow area. Actually I ended up with grots not having good room to go so basically they tagged behind. With no deep strike threats they were basically 2nd wave to take hold objectives which I made as sure as I could were on center.

I got first turn but he seized. Drats. Last week with knights this repeated. My orks have been usually pretty good at getting first turn though...Compare to my knights who are 0/4 with first turns.

Anyway his first turn was rather mild though. 4 and 3 wounds to KMK's(2 which were protected by KFF. One had no room so was alone) and 6 boyz. Could have been worse. I rushed in full speed and da jumped 30 shoota boyz next to bikes though those were in forest. 2 wounds from peril. Shooting I dropped 3 bolter scouts with those shoota boyz and couple wounds to rhino's and razorback with KMK's(only thing on range. Another drawback of this deployment...) but whopping 7 wounds to KMK's leaving them at 5, 5 and 4. Lol. I equalled damage he caused to ME with all his lascannons. The undamaged shot 6 shots only to get 4 1's...

His turn 2 he basically vaporized stormboyz and minor damage here and there. Oh and killed painboy with snipers. Bikers shot and charged my boyz and when it was over I had about half the squad dead but started grinding damage. I rushed forward some more and da jumped with my 2nd weirdboy(perilling for 3 wounds. This is why I brought TWO da jump rather than da jump and warpath) another mob toward left front of another mob. Tried to charge into tac squad but getting 6 and 2 I CP rerolled 2 and got 2. Drat. This was bad. Only good thing was I was having good time with objectives while he was struggling getting tough ones. If I hadn't da jumped shoota boyz he would be zero as he got "charge unit with higher PL". Well guess who had just da jumped such a squad next to them...I killed some more bikes leaving 2 and slugga squad charged rhino and killed it.

Turn 3 and he started thinning boyz in force. Basically he vaporized 2 of my squads on left at once. Now his shooting dice turned around and with all the rerolls too...His predator #1 alone killed 9 boyz. Ghazkhul smashed heads and from 2 mobs only nob+boy and wounded nob were left. On center with priority order(kill units) on his warlord he advanced with tac squad, warlord and librarian. He shot at full slugga mob. Keeping in mind scenario in mind I actually took all casualties from front INCLUDING NOB. I let my nob die just to push distance between mob and warlord far. This paid off as only tac squad from them, 2 chars and fist dreadnought made it. 4 boyz, 2 tacticals died. My turn I kept getting defend objectives I could get so was doing OK. Warlord(not ghazkhul btw) charged tac squad. Actually this was probably bad as I should have concentrated keeping him safe. Left Ghaz and boyz remnants advanced and grots swarmed around objectives. Nobz charged predator and razorback for minor damage and razorback actually finished wounded nob. My warlord hit 3 times and got whopping 3 6's killing 5 tacticals and choppa boyz killed rest with overkill. I was having bit hard time by this time with maelstroms as I kept having like "witch hunter"(good luck from protective wall of tacticals and warlord and dreadnought alongside) and "defend X" which he was sitting on top of.

Turn 4. He kept blowing my army up. Lone nob which freed my ghaz which razorback then killed as I failed both 4++. Runtherd and like 25 grots on left holding defend objective forcing me to use CP to pass morale. All slugga boyz near warlord who was charged by dreadnought. I actually survived due to 6+++. KMK's were also out by now.

We checked what objectives we would have got THOUGH I forgot I had 2 sets to draw. Turn 4 and then turn 5 as I Went 2nd. Albeit game might have continued to turn 6. Either way seeing what we got it was easy to determine what we could have archieved and I Wasn't in danger of wipeout(if nothing else KFF mek was behind hill. 100% impossible for him to get to him in even 2 turns) so we calculated 8-7(biggest ? is will my warlord die but even if I flee it's hard to keep him alive for one turn) for me. Of course turn 6 would have been bad for me seeing I had like ~20, 19 and 2x10 grots left basically.

I think one issue I had in this that's common is I deploy too wide resulting in often units being one front, one behind. Opponent then concentrates on one wiping it and leaving further one behind.

Rather deploy units like 5 model wide side by side. Then if one unit gets wiped another is equal distance to enemy. Also helps with roadblocks maybe. Those are bit of issue.

Also in this game made mistake with deployment zone pick. Should have went for the one with tower. Those sniper scouts were bugger. Thought 2 hills for KMK's would be useful but forgot the range issue...They only had range to rhino/razorback all game.

Oh and the da jump turn 1 was mistake. Albeit it didn't backfire too badly but 30 boyz got dealt too easily. Should have sent 30 grots instead as roadblock/"shoot them or they tie up. If you shoot them you don't shoot boyz behind" annoyance. Been doing grot jumps lately. Should have stick with it. Oh and darn that weirdboy easy perils is annoying. Got 2 and 3 wounds and then the 3 wound one died. All 3 casts perilled.

edit: Oh and personal satisfaction. Besides 2 runtherds all models count as fully painted. Albeit tons of grots need more work to go for my final level but at least basic coat is there. For about 250 model army that's nice. Especially as over half them are painted to full level including edge highlight. My opponent hearing I edge highlight my orks said "you are nuts". I agree! ;-)

Quick question about the 7 wounds on your KMKs... You know they can only have a maximum of 1 mortal wound from rolling 1s per shooting phase? The exact wording is:

''If you roll one or more hit rolls of 1 for the weapon, the bearer suffers a mortal wound after all of this weapon's shots have been resolved''

So regardless if you roll one or more 1s to hit, you take a (single) mortal wound.

Sorry if you already knew that and the wounds came from somewhere else.

Thanks for posting the Battle Reps, I do like reading them

crzylgs wrote:
Quick question about the 7 wounds on your KMKs... You know they can only have a maximum of 1 mortal wound from rolling 1s per shooting phase? The exact wording is:

''If you roll one or more hit rolls of 1 for the weapon, the bearer suffers a mortal wound after all of this weapon's shots have been resolved''

So regardless if you roll one or more 1s to hit, you take a (single) mortal wound.

Sorry if you already knew that and the wounds came from somewhere else.

Thanks for posting the Battle Reps, I do like reading them

How have I missed this? I'll have to reread that but holy crap that makes them so much safer. Thanks!

Sigh. Too much to hope for any sort of standardization from GW games. They are hell bent on making things unneccessarily complicated.

@tneva82: Well all the relevant rules are in the unit datasheets. This is so much more convenient than a bunch of USRs in god knows which book, however "standardized" those might be. I don't know how you could see this as "unneccessarily complicated".

Furthermore, the rule is not so complexly worded that you could not understand it on your first read through, so the blame is on you this time. But live and learn, as the saying goes.

But when you have 1 rule that works same it's lot easier. Well made USR rules beat up bazillion unique rules in terms of easyness. 7th ed weren't even best made but 7th ed rules are still easier to remember than 8th ed rules. When everything works uniquely it's lot harder to remeber everything. Do you find remembering 1 rule harder than 100? HAH! That's by definition false. 1 rule is always easier to remember than 100 different.

Having hundreds unique rules does not deeper game make. Ergo unneccessary complication.

tneva82 wrote:
But when you have 1 rule that works same it's lot easier. Well made USR rules beat up bazillion unique rules in terms of easyness. 7th ed weren't even best made but 7th ed rules are still easier to remember than 8th ed rules. When everything works uniquely it's lot harder to remeber everything. Do you find remembering 1 rule harder than 100? HAH! That's by definition false. 1 rule is always easier to remember than 100 different.

Having hundreds unique rules does not deeper game make. Ergo unneccessary complication.

i quess its preference really, though this is more friendly to rule writers, they are no longer restricted by USRs and can customize the rule for the unit if needs be, but when its only through usr then if you want to change that rule then its either make a new rule on the unit sheet (which has the player to still reference the main unit entry..something they would be doing anyway with the current 8th edition system) or you change the usr itself, which can drastically change balance for all armies since they would all be effected, or the other option is making the unique rule and add it too the USRs but that only bloats the usr list making it eventually more detrimental and harder to remember them all. in 7th there always seemed to be 2 or 3 rules that did similar things with only slight changes throughout the usr.

the current system negates the reliance on a main rule book, so anyone can quickly learn the basic rules (that can be easily looked up for free online) for playing the game, and at that point all they need then is their codex or index (and of course chapter approved and faqs are going to complicate this a little, but its easy enough to print our faqs to just shove in your book) and just learn their faction.

again its preference,i like the new way but some will prefer the old way but i see the practicality for why GW decided to go this route with both 40k and aos.

It is not a question of depth, rather than usability. I'm sure there are fans of the old cluttered USR nightmare and fans of the new system. I enjoy the convenience of the new datasheets.

I personally think this editions rules are fine, it puts the onus onto the army owner to understand their army. Which any responsible player should do for the sake of game speed and legitimacy.
Obviously people make mistakes, or play multiple armies which spreads their focus but ultimately its up to you to play it right. I personally have not got everything for the edition figured out entirely.
I sometimes forget to take wounds on my my KMK (scumbag) and i also think i have remembered to shoot my pistols with in combat squads like twice the whole edition. those are the last 2 things i seem to forget, but im working on it.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:

crzylgs wrote:
Quick question about the 7 wounds on your KMKs... You know they can only have a maximum of 1 mortal wound from rolling 1s per shooting phase? The exact wording is:

''If you roll one or more hit rolls of 1 for the weapon, the bearer suffers a mortal wound after all of this weapon's shots have been resolved''

So regardless if you roll one or more 1s to hit, you take a (single) mortal wound.

Sorry if you already knew that and the wounds came from somewhere else.

Thanks for posting the Battle Reps, I do like reading them

How have I missed this? I'll have to reread that but holy crap that makes them so much safer. Thanks!

No problem! Yup, a maximum of 1 mortal wound per phase is a huge difference. It is definitely worded the way I quoted.

It would have to say something like: 'take a mortal wound for EACH roll of 1 to hit'

in order for you to have to stack multiple mortal wounds per shooting phase.

 Weazel wrote:
@tneva82: Well all the relevant rules are in the unit datasheets. This is so much more convenient than a bunch of USRs in god knows which book, however "standardized" those might be. I don't know how you could see this as "unneccessarily complicated".

Furthermore, the rule is not so complexly worded that you could not understand it on your first read through, so the blame is on you this time. But live and learn, as the saying goes.

They could have the rules on every datasheet and still have them all work the same

Sometimes I just put wounds on random KMK's when I forget. I don't feel like it matters that much (unless your opponent is shooting that them), if they take a wound every turn they will still get to shot until turn 6.

SemperMortis wrote:

Fingers crossed they hired someone who understands the ork army AND knows how to write.

Oof. Were you here for the 7th ed codex? I suspect that was written by someone who had never even played 40k, much less orks.

Then again, the index was fairly decent, at least for its time.

But I really REALLY am not hoping for much, especially with the space wolves codex having a day 1 errata and very little new stuff. The new buggies will be nice, but I suspect there won't be much of a release beyond it.

Even so, it would be nice to have our codex written by someone who sees orks as something besides a NPC race. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

*Dear Mork, all I want for Orktober is a Mega Armor Warboss on a Warbike. We've all been good patient boyz.*

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

Fingers crossed they hired someone who understands the ork army AND knows how to write.

Oof. Were you here for the 7th ed codex? I suspect that was written by someone who had never even played 40k, much less orks.

Then again, the index was fairly decent, at least for its time.

But I really REALLY am not hoping for much, especially with the space wolves codex having a day 1 errata and very little new stuff. The new buggies will be nice, but I suspect there won't be much of a release beyond it.

Even so, it would be nice to have our codex written by someone who sees orks as something besides a NPC race. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

*Dear Mork, all I want for Orktober is a Mega Armor Warboss on a Warbike. We've all been good patient boyz.*

That bike would have to be massive. I'm just imagining a MAW riding on top of a looted rhino now.

 DrGiggles wrote:


That bike would have to be massive. I'm just imagining a MAW riding on top of a looted rhino now.

I fail to see a problem with that!

I remember 5th edition codex saying that a warboss in MA would probably fall off if he had a warbike.
I played some guy who had a MA warboss on a warbike models (he was riding a SM attack bike) and claimed that the codex didn't say he couldn't do it, just that the warboss would fall off. We rolled every move whether the warboss would fall off the bike, with him ending pinned somewhere midfield

 Dojo wrote:
I personally think this editions rules are fine, it puts the onus onto the army owner to understand their army. Which any responsible player should do for the sake of game speed and legitimacy.
Obviously people make mistakes, or play multiple armies which spreads their focus but ultimately its up to you to play it right. I personally have not got everything for the edition figured out entirely.
I sometimes forget to take wounds on my my KMK (scumbag) and i also think i have remembered to shoot my pistols with in combat squads like twice the whole edition. those are the last 2 things i seem to forget, but im working on it.

Agreed on the rules and I also forget to shoot pistols pretty consistently.

Then again it's a lot of rolling for a couple of wounds with no AP.

 Jidmah wrote:
I remember 5th edition codex saying that a warboss in MA would probably fall off if he had a warbike.
I played some guy who had a MA warboss on a warbike models (he was riding a SM attack bike) and claimed that the codex didn't say he couldn't do it, just that the warboss would fall off. We rolled every move whether the warboss would fall off the bike, with him ending pinned somewhere midfield

Worth it

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Dojo wrote:
I personally think this editions rules are fine, it puts the onus onto the army owner to understand their army. Which any responsible player should do for the sake of game speed and legitimacy.
Obviously people make mistakes, or play multiple armies which spreads their focus but ultimately its up to you to play it right. I personally have not got everything for the edition figured out entirely.
I sometimes forget to take wounds on my my KMK (scumbag) and i also think i have remembered to shoot my pistols with in combat squads like twice the whole edition. those are the last 2 things i seem to forget, but im working on it.

Agreed on the rules and I also forget to shoot pistols pretty consistently.

Then again it's a lot of rolling for a couple of wounds with no AP.

Unless there's some weird specific scenario in mind I always begin my shooting phases with shooting all my pistol units stuck in CC since thy generally have no options for targets and otherwise I'll forget them..

Anyone else feel like Snakebites are the new green tide?

A nearby KFF save(if you didnt forgo it for more boyz), then a free 6+ clan trait, then a nearby FnP seems like the most reasonable needed boost.

The Deffskullz trait appears nice if you don't want a KFF mek but I feel like the single unit reroll a phase just doesn't fit for a tide.

I can't really see any of the offensive traits being more valueable when living to get stuck in is really what is important.

I don't know about everyone else but for me the problem isn't attacks IN CC, the problem is getting enough models INTO CC. So with that in mind the

Goffs trait of 1 Extra attack for every hit roll of 6 is kind of crap honestly (This btw is from BOLs)

Bad moons with rerolling 1s....utter crap, so 36 loota shots go from 12 hits to an amazing.....14.

Blood Axes (My favorite Klan) is actually pretty good. Units can fall back, shoot and assault all in the same turn....this part is kind of crap, because realistically, what CC units do we have that don't have pistols? However the second part....Units ALWAYS count as being in cover. So now my Kommandos are walking around with a 4+ save, almost justifying their 9pt cost.

DeffSkulls: All Units have a 6+ invuln. meh, units also get 1 free reroll a phase for shooting/fighting. Not bad but honestly not that amazing.

Evil Sunz: Completely lacking in any kind of originality +1 to movement, advance and charges. Also units ignore -1 to hit when using assault weapons after advancing, All I can think of is the Shoota boyz and Bikers, but again, our shooting is already crap so unless that gets a buff in general I don't see that being all that useful.

Snakebites: These are probably going to be the new cool Klan for players. They get a built in 6+ FNP, whether it stacks with the Dokz buff we don't know yet but if it does, that answers the question of durability. If you can use all those saves combined you get a 6+ Armor save, a 6+ fnp and a 6+ Snakebite save (A Snave )

Finally....Freebooters: Units gain +1 to hit after you destroy an enemy unit....not bad but honestly, how often is our shooting killing an enemy unit? I honestly see a lot of ork players suddenly becoming Snake Bite fans or My personal favorites Blood Axes. the others are kind of lackluster except maybe the Evil sunz if our Warbikes/koptas/buggies get a big boost in durability/damage output I can see them being a real threat with that +3inch movement.

I'm a deffskulls fan and I will continue to ride or die with them. I think it could be quite good provided that all of our vehicles receive a nice points decrease. Plus not having to buy multiple KFFs can really save you some points.

I also think the one reroll per phase thing could be great for things like Tankbustas w/ squig bombs. Possibly Lootas if we are able to reroll the # of shots. And also our vehicles with KMK and the like.

Also there have been complaints of a lack of invuls for Orks pretty much army wide for 2-3 editions now. If this does turn out like eldar where essentially every unit gets it, it could be quite powerful.

SemperMortis wrote:

Blood Axes (My favorite Klan) is actually pretty good. Units can fall back, shoot and assault all in the same turn....this part is kind of crap, because realistically, what CC units do we have that don't have pistols? However the second part....Units ALWAYS count as being in cover. So now my Kommandos are walking around with a 4+ save, almost justifying their 9pt cost.

Benefit of fall back and charge over pistol would be a) not getting bogged down vs less interesting unit but can charge instead more interesting target b) you get to strike as charger which means you get to attack with all your units rather than first with all new charges, then alternate with enemy so he can't strike somewhere before you killing some orks and thus reducing your attacks.

Evil Sunz: Completely lacking in any kind of originality +1 to movement, advance and charges. Also units ignore -1 to hit when using assault weapons after advancing, All I can think of is the Shoota boyz and Bikers, but again, our shooting is already crap so unless that gets a buff in general I don't see that being all that useful.

Snakebites: These are probably going to be the new cool Klan for players. They get a built in 6+ FNP, whether it stacks with the Dokz buff we don't know yet but if it does, that answers the question of durability. If you can use all those saves combined you get a 6+ Armor save, a 6+ fnp and a 6+ Snakebite save (A Snave )

Evil sunz might not be original but it would be bloody powerful and maybe best of the bunch.

As for snakebite...I would avoid that like plague just for sake of time especially for green horde style list. Imagine rolling all those 6+++ for multi damage weapons. "Here's crusader that does like 9 D2 wounds . Now roll 2 dice 9 times..."

Whether it's good or bad I don't care but I would run out of time with that one.

If the traits turn out to be true (I'm calling them wishlisting btw), the Evil Suns trait pretty much wins, unless it is vehicles only or something.

I mean footslogging Orks are pretty slow, and getting +2" when advancing and +3" when advancing and charging is pretty damn powerful. Because like SemperMortis said, getting INTO melee is the biggest challenge and the Evil Sunz trait would help immensely in that regard. In addition to helping the slog it would also help Da Jumping boyz get into melee with a roll of 8 instead of 9.

 Weazel wrote:
If the traits turn out to be true (I'm calling them wishlisting btw), the Evil Suns trait pretty much wins, unless it is vehicles only or something.

I mean footslogging Orks are pretty slow, and getting +2" when advancing and +3" when advancing and charging is pretty damn powerful. Because like SemperMortis said, getting INTO melee is the biggest challenge and the Evil Sunz trait would help immensely in that regard. In addition to helping the slog it would also help Da Jumping boyz get into melee with a roll of 8 instead of 9.

True. I'm not confident they are true but if yes I expect lots of red&yellow repainting!

Actually having had to decide between goffs, evil sunz and bad moon whom I paint new big choppa nob for next week tournament I opted to go for evil sunz. Maybe it's not true but one of those(or deth skulls but they already have big choppa nob) needed it and all will get more units anyway so it's just matter of what to paint first so no disaster either way if untrue.

I just want those 4 clans to have useful traits! Would suck to repaint ;-)

No strategems yet. Strategems are what's making things good or not so much.

Well I love Goffs and have painted my Orks as such, but we are not strict with Klan colors in our group. My mate runs Alaitoc traits with a Biel-Tan painted army so...

But might be fun to paint a few red guys and/or vehicles just to have them join my black & white Waaaagh