Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)

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**JimOnMars**

Dojo wrote:
So, if you guys wanna take a break from salivating over the new model, i would like to discuss some strategy. Specifically Us Vs Tyranids strategy.
What has and has not worked for you guys? Discuss.

For me one thing i think im going to keep doing now is utilizing Shoota boyz. Plenty of targets in nid armies that will take good damage from them. they are still quite combat viable even without the extra attack.
I have personally seen fairly powerful overwatch results from them as well. I have had some success with what rockets have been in my army, and im considering tankbustas despite the lack of vehicles in the nid army. one ore thing to consider is that i was able to easily clear spore mines by directing 2-3 boyz to shoot at each one.

Before i say this, i know our walkers are not great right now, but i feel like they particularly dont work vs nids right now. Not enough attacks to chew gribblies and not tough enough to weather any of their monsters. My walker list fell apart at the end when combat happened, plus they have combat centric stratagems that tip the scales further.
So theres what worked / Didnt work for me.

I have been thing recently that based on alot of important Nid models that tankbustas might be a real answer for 3 wound low toughness things like zoanthropes/Venomthropes which in my head are high value targets. All it takes is 1 failed save to kill a model.

Where do you guys stand on actually targeting venomthropes? I think in alot of cases they should be priority 1 to remove the -1 hit aura but i have also been in situations where it seemed to be a waste of time and i would have rather targeted things outside their auras. What are your experiences?
tbh.

Im thinking i will run at least 1 biggtrakk (supaskorcha) / 6 tankbusta units. they are high yeild any time i have used them and i think they still have a place vs non vehivle armies. Prolly 2.

What do you guys say lets take a crack at nids for a bit? I lose most of my games to them.

I found that resigning usually works pretty well and accomplishes what it intends.

Seriously, shooty nids evaporate orks at a vastly lower cost than what we pay for ours.

Possibly weirdboy spam teleporting orks onto objectives...but likely they can't get within 9 inches of one if it has bugs on it, and can't move until the next turn to try to score it. Maybe teleport to empty objectives on turn 1 for a few points anyway.

If someone else has an answer, I would also like to know.

**Anvildude**

Man, people are just NEGATIVE a lot in this thread. And not, like, in a mean way. Just, everyone always seems so resigned to losing.

**Vitali Advenil**

Anvildude wrote:
Man, people are just NEGATIVE a lot in this thread. And not, like, in a mean way. Just, everyone always seems so resigned to losing.

Because if we take anything other than 180+ boys we're probably going to.

**tneva82**

Anvildude wrote:
Man, people are just NEGATIVE a lot in this thread. And not, like, in a mean way. Just, everyone always seems so resigned to losing.

Well we are index army with most having codex and gw having had grand strategy of codex armies trumping indexes armies hard from the get go.

If you are looking at index army vs codex army prepare to lose. Gw designed it so.

**JimOnMars**

Anvildude wrote:
Man, people are just NEGATIVE a lot in this thread. And not, like, in a mean way. Just, everyone always seems so resigned to losing.

Also, shooty nids are a hard counter to index orks. Everything that have that shoots is practically twice as points efficient as we are, and we have no answer to big monsters (the bane of 7th ed) which was not solved.

Tankbustas only saving grace is they get to re-roll against vehicles, and are overpriced even then. Against an army that has no vehicles they are worse than worthless.

**Jidmah**

Anvildude wrote:
Man, people are just NEGATIVE a lot in this thread. And not, like, in a mean way. Just, everyone always seems so resigned to losing.

Sadly, that's the reality unless your opponent specifically tailors his army to be a fair fight for yours. Even if they just randomly toss models they like into a list, their is a good chance they will curb-stomp you.

**geargutz**

Anvildude wrote:
Man, people are just NEGATIVE a lot in this thread. And not, like, in a mean way. Just, everyone always seems so resigned to losing.

i wonder, with all these poeple that mention ork saltiness, or even ork players who say we are too whiny, i wonder if they have played orks much this edition.

for a whole year we have had little success. maybe at the start of the edition when everyone was new to it we had some wins, but even then you could tell there was power difference between indexes, and orks weren't at the top of the indexes, though we were not the bottom.

now as the year progressed and everyone was getting their fancy codex's we languished, and the only thing we really had was the infamous boy spam. and if you haven't played it or played against it then understand this...its bloody boring.

i know the green tide is in the fluff, but its the "every ork" type army. any fluff piece always had waves upon waves of boyz, but the ork flavor would really start to come out when you find out what special units the waaagh would have. but with out those special units or unique armies all we would ever get would be just another horde army that wouldn't even horde that well compared to others (especially after the guard and the tyranids got their codexs).

its not fun to look at your collection of speedfreak vehicles, dreddmob death machines, and elite focused nob armies, and realize that they were all useless in competitive 40k (heck, they are even only mildly more useful in fun pickup games), and then you would have to go back to assembling and painting the same boy x100. for many of us 8th edition has been very boring, and hopefully the codex will diversify our lists.

**tneva82**

geargutz wrote:
i know the green tide is in the fluff, but its the "every ork" type army. any fluff piece always had waves upon waves of boyz, but the ork flavor would really start to come out when you find out what special units the waaagh would have. but with out those special units or unique armies all we would ever get would be just another horde army that wouldn't even horde that well compared to others (especially after the guard and the tyranids got their codexs).

To ram that home without going for full boyz spam but actually daring to have other units I only barely outnumbered sisters of battle army...That's 3+ BS3+ army that was nearly woman to ork in numbers.

As it is if you want to horde it up IG does better job at it than orks.

And vs codex armies even in casual games orks casual options are laughably bad. And then we come to units like stompa that are basically "i lose" autobutton. Not quite as bad as warhound but still you basically lose the game.

Well. Codex is hopefully within weeks out so hopefully it changes soon.

**hollow one**

TBH geargutz, everyone is in the same position. Most armies right now only have one build that wins tournaments, even with codexes.
* 1k sons: smite spam (may or may not include magnus)
* eldar: wave serpents, shining spear, dark reaper
* harlequin: bikes
* drukhari: raiders and venoms? I dunno all their gak looks the same.
* blood angels: captains and mephiston
* knights: one castellan in amongst guard
* tau: firewarrior spam, hammerheads or riptides
* CSM: what... renegade knights? nothing is working
* death guard: plaguebearers and PBC
* sisters: seraphim, repressors and immolators
* ANY imperium list: where's your scouts, guard battery, and knight??

Look I'm massively simplifying it, but the point is clear.

But here in this thread, we've managed to make it a depressing mess for over a year. And you're wrong about the little success, Orks had a great time in the first 6 months, and even stole a few GT wins later in the year.

**Jidmah**

geargutz wrote:
Anvildude wrote:
Man, people are just NEGATIVE a lot in this thread. And not, like, in a mean way. Just, everyone always seems so resigned to losing.

i wonder, with all these poeple that mention ork saltiness, or even ork players who say we are too whiny, i wonder if they have played orks much this edition.

for a whole year we have had little success. maybe at the start of the edition when everyone was new to it we had some wins, but even then you could tell there was power difference between indexes, and orks weren't at the top of the indexes, though we were not the bottom.

now as the year progressed and everyone was getting their fancy codex's we languished, and the only thing we really had was the infamous boy spam. and if you haven't played it or played against it then understand this...its bloody boring.

i know the green tide is in the fluff, but its the "every ork" type army. any fluff piece always had waves upon waves of boyz, but the ork flavor would really start to come out when you find out what special units the waaagh would have. but with out those special units or unique armies all we would ever get would be just another horde army that wouldn't even horde that well compared to others (especially after the guard and the tyranids got their codexs).

its not fun to look at your collection of speedfreak vehicles, dreddmob death machines, and elite focused nob armies, and realize that they were all useless in competitive 40k (heck, they are even only mildly more useful in fun pickup games), and then you would have to go back to assembling and painting the same boy x100. for many of us 8th edition has been very boring, and hopefully the codex will diversify our lists.

The complaints about ork players are mostly about a select few ork players going ballistic in every single thread about not getting info on the new codex/getting our new codex last/not getting the codex right now.

Very few people do not agree that there is little to be won with orks as of now.

**geargutz**

Jidmah wrote:

The complaints about ork players are mostly about a select few ork players going ballistic in every single thread about not getting info on the new codex/getting our new codex last/not getting the codex right now.

Very few people do not agree that there is little to be won with orks as of now.

man, i didnt even talk about it and you jumped at the chance to lambast the ork players who were upset with the ork news and release schedule. i was talking about ork players that think we whine too much about our very limited codex options(they do exist), not the ones that whine about us complaining about GW poorly handling of the release schedule and lack of articles (as far as orks go).

me thinks that you are more obsessed with it then the actual ork players you do seem to fight against. guess what happened, after GW finally showed some ork stuff and gave us a month to expect for a release our complaints died down (there are still some who do, but there will always be), heck, ive pretty much stopped complaining about the news because they finally answered us.

you on the other hand bring it up out of nowhere like it was your torch to carry. at this point you are whining more then the actual "whiners"

**Jidmah**

Except there is a thread full of dakkaites complaining about that exact issue.

Meanwhile, no threads complaining about the quality of the index anywhere. Everybody has accepted that codex beats index, and being the last codex left just does that.

Therefore your statement

i wonder, with all these poeple that mention ork saltiness, or even ork players who say we are too whiny,

means all those people are referring what I wrote and not to what you are talking about.

Facts are against you and your ad hominem attacks my friend.

**geargutz**

Jidmah wrote:
Except there is a thread full of dakkaites complaining about that exact issue.

Meanwhile, no threads complaining about the quality of the index anywhere. Everybody has accepted that codex beats index, and being the last codex left just does that.

Therefore your statement

i wonder, with all these poeple that mention ork saltiness, or even ork players who say we are too whiny,

means all those people are referring what I wrote and not to what you are talking about.

Facts are against you and your ad hominem attacks my friend.

"Except there is a thread full of dakkaites complaining about that exact issue."
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/180/761943.page
do you mean this thread?

im genuinely curios about what thread you talking about. cause i dont see any other thread right now in the general. the link i have here has many of those complaints....and no one has commented in 3 days....like its died down somehow, like maybe the orks players you whine about complaining are no longer complaining as much as they used to.

"Meanwhile, no threads complaining about the quality of the index anywhere. Everybody has accepted that codex beats index, and being the last codex left just does that."
hmm, i guess you right, there is no thread about peeps complaining still about their index....oh wait, no wonder i smell squig dung, because this very thread we are talking on still complains about it.

"Facts are against you and your ad hominem attacks my friend"
i guess facts are only what you believe they are, and not what they actually are, facts.
and the fact remains that you went off on a tangent about something i didn't even talk about.
is it that hard to see that i think you more of a whiner then i am?

**tneva82**

Okay quite a while since I got game with orks. Local game games were annoyingly late starting meaning I had about 2 hours to play game making it hard to play game with orks(luckily for me it changed hour earlier!), knights came so wanted to try and then month in Japan. But now there's 1500 pts casual tournament coming on start of september(alas day after I suspect ork codex pre-order. Week later and there could have been chance I could play with brand new codex...) so figured might take orks and have good excuse to paint some of the over 100 grots I have to paint...

2 battallions.

Warboss(kill choppa, tenacious survivor)
weirdboy(da jump)

4x30 boyz(30xchoppa, 30xshoota, 20/10, 10/20, 2 have power klaw nobs, two big choppas)

bik mek w/kff
weirdboy(da jump)
2x30 grots
2x10 grots
19xgrot
3xKMK

So basically swarm 'em with bodies. 219 boyz and grots plus character support and some KMK's for shooting.

Q would be big mek. I can't really cover boyz so he can be ignored fairly well if I use him to protect boyz so I was planning to put him with KMK's to give them some protection. I find them being targeted first quite often. Or should I replace him with another warboss with power klaw and another grot for 19 strong squad?

2 weirdboyz as I find one often enough periling to the level where using one is risk plus give me flexibility which unit I throw around. Never had really success with warpath spell.

**Ravajaxe**

Hello Boyz ! Here is a Vlog about ork clans traits.

**Billagio**

Similar to what someone posted in the general chat thread. We shall have to see with the release or real leaks. If true, the evil suns one is by far the best imo

**Jidmah**

Gotta love how the guy in the video has no clue how orks work.

BRe-rolling ones on BS5 models? Does nothing (~5% additional chance to hit).
Cover in the open? Yeah, not great for most units, since 5+ armor is not going to safe the day. Nice for MANz and nobz though.

Evil suns really is insane. It basically makes the entire army advance with no downside, while shooting all the way there.

I like freebootas though. Assuming you can have an entire army of freebootas (and not just flash gits+badrukk), this is going to be a very good trait for shooty armies. Wipe out some injured unit, or objective holders like guardsmen, cultists or scouts and then bring down the hammer on their vehicles with the big guns. +1 to hit also makes the dakkadakkadakka stratagem very worthwhile.

Deff skulls with 6++ and one to re-roll per turn sounds decent for walkers and other more elite-oriented builds.

Goff, Snake bites are eh. FNP is not good enough to give up any of the other traits, especially since pain boyz exists and additional attacks in combat is the last thing Thrakka's clan needs.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, speculation and pictures on the second buggy model here:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1350/759515.page#10114476

**koooaei**

A lot will depend on the strategems.

If what's said there is true, we've got some solid clan rules. Always being in cover is of course a downgraded version of -1 to hit but it's still not that bad. In many cases it's as good as 6++ or better. And kommandoes running around with 4+ armor is neat. Depending on what else they get.

**Jidmah**

According to the video, you only get the cover bonus when not advancing or assaulting, which makes it kind of meh again.

The interesting part about the deff skulls tactics is the re-rolls, the 6++ is just a nice add-on.

**SemperMortis**

Jidmah wrote:
According to the video, you only get the cover bonus when not advancing or assaulting, which makes it kind of meh again.

The interesting part about the deff skulls tactics is the re-rolls, the 6++ is just a nice add-on.

which makes the bonus almost useless as it currently stands for most of our units, our extremely short ranged weapons teamed with our focus on melee means we need to be advancing or assaulting so....yeah. The bonus to kommandos could be beneficial....if kommandos got cheaper. If I could deep strike Boyz into cover and get a 4+ save at 8ppm I might actually use them for something beyond Kamikazi distraction units.

**Jidmah**

Well, you could field a vanguard with Snikrot (or any other HQ) + 3x kommandoz and have them in cover anywhere on the board.

A SAG Big Mek, should he be viable, might also enjoy a permanent cover bonus while sitting on an objective.

**crzylgs**

Guys I wouldn't waste any time speculating on that video.

It's an absolutely un-verified message from a random internet stranger claiming to be a play tester. It's not a 'leak' as there isn't a shred of physical evidence to back it up. It's a weak rumour.

I called him out in the YouTube comments and he had the grace to change the video name!

**koooaei**

hollow one wrote:
TBH geargutz, everyone is in the same position. Most armies right now only have one build that wins tournaments, even with codexes.
* 1k sons: smite spam (may or may not include magnus)
* eldar: wave serpents, shining spear, dark reaper
* harlequin: bikes
* drukhari: raiders and venoms? I dunno all their gak looks the same.
* blood angels: captains and mephiston
* knights: one castellan in amongst guard
* tau: firewarrior spam, hammerheads or riptides
* CSM: what... renegade knights? nothing is working
* death guard: plaguebearers and PBC
* sisters: seraphim, repressors and immolators
* ANY imperium list: where's your scouts, guard battery, and knight??

Look I'm massively simplifying it, but the point is clear.

But here in this thread, we've managed to make it a depressing mess for over a year. And you're wrong about the little success, Orks had a great time in the first 6 months, and even stole a few GT wins later in the year.

The difference is quality of the rest. One thing is having a bunch of units that are not as good as the best stuff. That's why they're more rare at tourneys. Another thing is to have a whole book of devastaror centurions and a couple good units hidden among them.

**geargutz**

though i doubt these "leaks" are real, im actually hopeful for freebooterz getting a clan trait, they might not be a clan, but they are iconic enough to get one. besides, we need a clan to siphon all those posh boozy flashgitz into anyway.

**Vitali Advenil**

crzylgs wrote:
Guys I wouldn't waste any time speculating on that video.

It's an absolutely un-verified message from a random internet stranger claiming to be a play tester. It's not a 'leak' as there isn't a shred of physical evidence to back it up. It's a weak rumour.

I called him out in the YouTube comments and he had the grace to change the video name!

Yeah, I am putting absolutely 0 faith in this. I could come out with a video tomorrow about Deff Skulls getting +10 S as a clan trait and it would be just as credible.

**SemperMortis**

Those traits seem rather lacking in quality, usefulness and creativity. So while I am hoping that they aren't real I am rather worried that this fits the build for recent ork releases, uninspired and crappy.

Fingers crossed they hired someone who understands the ork army AND knows how to write.

**pismakron**

If those traits hold water, then they are not very well designed. The Evil Sunz is much better than the others, but it is not really thematic though, as it kind of incentivises the use of large blobs of footslogging shootaboyz. Advancing with trukks and bikes are much less critical. I dunno, I am kind of losing my appetite for 40k. I hope it comes back.

**koooaei**

SemperMortis wrote:
Those traits seem rather lacking in quality, usefulness and creativity. So while I am hoping that they aren't real I am rather worried that this fits the build for recent ork releases, uninspired and crappy.

Fingers crossed they hired someone who understands the ork army AND knows how to write.

Could you suggest a number of traits that don't lack in quality, usefullness and creativity and are balanced?

**Billagio**

koooaei wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Those traits seem rather lacking in quality, usefulness and creativity. So while I am hoping that they aren't real I am rather worried that this fits the build for recent ork releases, uninspired and crappy.

Fingers crossed they hired someone who understands the ork army AND knows how to write.

Could you suggest a number of traits that don't lack in quality, usefullness and creativity and are balanced?

Yeah exactly. I think the traits are fine if theyre true. My main complaint is how obviously head and shoulders Evil Suns is above the others and that it doesn't properly represent that clans specialty

**Eonfuzz**

Wait and see the stratagems before we make any claims for viability. I'm sure -if they are true- our dear blood axes will have a -1 to be hit strategem.

That aside, the freebootaz one sounds interesting, +1 to hit for each unit killed previously this turn? I'm imagining a Wierdboy smite core to ensure there's at least one dead unit.

He also mentioned an army wide 'Dakka Dakka Dakka' rule, ranged hits of 6+ generate an extra hit. Perhaps this also means Orks auto hit on a 6? AND it would stack really well with the above Freebootaz trait.