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2015/01/25 04:49:17
Subject: I don't normally go in for conspiracy theories but... War by Deception is pretty convincing
Now. I know what you're thinking. Another 9/11 conspiracy and normally I'd agree. I like to watch them all and had always been extremely sceptical.
However, it came to this guy Ryan Dawson.
He's not a fan of Alex Jones, he's not a fan of Loose Change or a lot of other 9/11 conspiracy theorists, he also thinks planes hit the towers and pentagon.
He supposes that Mossad & the CIA were behind 9/11 and that people within the US government were complicit in the murder of innocent people.
The actual documentary is 2 hours long but this video is just shy of half an hour and is definitely worth a watch. Covers mostly Mossad's involvement.
I'd watch the first ten minutes and see if you get hooked. It's certainly worth it if you have time for the one go (Which I appreciate not everybody does, it's certainly worth it.)
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100% bullgak
If 9-11 truly were a government setup, it was far too elaborate. Too outlandish to be a setup.
They could have easily planted normal bombs on the WTC and gotten the same results. Hijacking multiple commercial airline flights would have far too much risk of the operation getting leaked.
The number 1 rule of conspiracy is secrecy. Its very difficult to keep secrets, so the people in the know have to be few. 9-11 simply would have taken too many people to setup for it to have been engineered by the government and kept secret.
The same result could have been achieved without such a massive incident. And anybody who would want to start a war for profit would take no more effort than was necessary.
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Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
If 9-11 truly were a government setup, it was far too elaborate. Too outlandish to be a setup.
They could have easily planted normal bombs on the WTC and gotten the same results. Hijacking multiple commercial airline flights would have far too much risk of the operation getting leaked.
The number 1 rule of conspiracy is secrecy. Its very difficult to keep secrets, so the people in the know have to be few. 9-11 simply would have taken too many people to setup for it to have been engineered by the government and kept secret.
The same result could have been achieved without such a massive incident. And anybody who would want to start a war for profit would take no more effort than was necessary.
This. The only reason to hijack planes to use as improvised bombs is if you have a good supply of willing martyrs but not much else. If you're a government trying to fake an attack it's a stupidly complicated way of doing things that almost guarantees that someone will reveal the secret.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2015/01/25 06:19:01
Subject: I don't normally go in for conspiracy theories but... War by Deception is pretty convincing
Because everyone knows the Zionist Conspiracy plans everything evil in the world.
Yes, because Mossad have never engaged in sinister or outright illegal behaviour within the territory of and even against their supposed allies...
I'm not buying the "Jews did 9/11!" shtick, but Mossad are right up there with the shadiest "intelligence" organisations in the world, and considering the competition that's quite an achievement.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/25 06:19:23
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
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"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
2015/01/25 06:38:09
Subject: I don't normally go in for conspiracy theories but... War by Deception is pretty convincing
Thats always been the problem with connect the dots, connect enough of them or in a patern you see fit and you get what ever picture you want. Then that fricking picture is stuck in your head no matter how many times people rearange the dots.
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2015/01/25 07:28:42
Subject: I don't normally go in for conspiracy theories but... War by Deception is pretty convincing
Yes, because Mossad have never engaged in sinister or outright illegal behaviour within the territory of and even against their supposed allies...
I'm not buying the "Jews did 9/11!" shtick, but Mossad are right up there with the shadiest "intelligence" organisations in the world, and considering the competition that's quite an achievement.
Can't just have a laugh can you Gotta spoil it with reality
This sums up my views on the idea of "conspiracies", "the man", or any idea of a single group of people manipulating events from behind the scenes and acting as a puppeteer.
Conspiracy theories are just the pathetic failing of the human mind to find purpose in the purposeless. No different then how people thought gods created lightning storms in the classical era because they were angry. Nothing more then the human brain trying to find reason in the random.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
2015/01/25 07:41:10
Subject: I don't normally go in for conspiracy theories but... War by Deception is pretty convincing
Any conspiracy theory which hinges on our own government or any other intelligence agency being complicit automatically falls apart at the seams from the first word.
There are two camps, the first that the government is inept, and the second that the government is all powerful.
In the first case, by virtue of ineptitude, the government could never successfully pull off an operation like this. More importantly, they could never pull it off while keeping it secret. If they were responsible, wed know for sure by now.
In the secone case, if it was the government, we would never figure it out, ever, and it would be done is such a manner that conspiracy theorists would have aboslutely nothing to go on to build any sort of theory.
It seems to me that this theory, and in fact most theories, attempt to argue a hybrid of these situations, that the government is somehow all-powerful, yet somehow still inept, and that gak simply doesnt fly.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2015/01/25 08:20:01
Subject: I don't normally go in for conspiracy theories but... War by Deception is pretty convincing
chaos0xomega wrote: There are two camps, the first that the government is inept, and the second that the government is all powerful.
In the first case, by virtue of ineptitude, the government could never successfully pull off an operation like this. More importantly, they could never pull it off while keeping it secret. If they were responsible, wed know for sure by now.
In the secone case, if it was the government, we would never figure it out, ever, and it would be done is such a manner that conspiracy theorists would have aboslutely nothing to go on to build any sort of theory.
This is a false dilemma. There's at least one other possibility: the government is reasonably competent and able to do something like this, but not quite 100% perfect.
The real argument against 9/11 conspiracies is the needless complexity if you assume that the government is responsible. If you're going to create a fake terrorist attack for political reasons then you need to keep the number of people involved to an absolute minimum. Each additional person you include increases the chances that someone will expose your plot, all of your political causes will be destroyed, and you'll spend the rest of your life in prison or die. So if the government wanted to create a fake terrorist attack we'd expect to see a very simple plot. For example, a truck bomb in the stadium at a major sporting event would certainly kill a lot of people in a very dramatic way. Hijacking planes to use as improvised bombs is ridiculously complicated and involves way too many opportunities for failure, for no real improvement in political value compared to a simpler plot. And of course faking the attacks is even worse. So believing that the government was responsible for the actual 9/11 attacks requires an assumption that our government is run by a bunch of comic book villains who do stupid stuff just because of how evil it is.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2015/01/25 09:40:33
Subject: I don't normally go in for conspiracy theories but... War by Deception is pretty convincing
I think the essential problem with most of the theories put forwards about 9/11/similar is that the actual rationale for the conspiracy is always a bit thin-to-none-existent.
Surely if Mossad ( or whomever) wanted the USA to go to war with whomever they would be so many easier ways to do this. Or at least ways that don't do devastating amounts of damage both materially and financially to New York city ( or wherever).
-- haven't watched the film, apologies if this is covered.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
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2015/01/25 13:47:17
Subject: Re:I don't normally go in for conspiracy theories but... War by Deception is pretty convincing
reds8n wrote: I think the essential problem with most of the theories put forwards about 9/11/similar is that the actual rationale for the conspiracy is always a bit thin-to-none-existent.
Surely if Mossad ( or whomever) wanted the USA to go to war with whomever they would be so many easier ways to do this. Or at least ways that don't do devastating amounts of damage both materially and financially to New York city ( or wherever).
Or to put it another way: if 9/11 was an inside job, the government wouldn't have needed such a half-assed excuse to invade Iraq. Instead of framing the Saudis and then claiming Saddam Hussein was aiding Saudi terrorists, why not cut out the middleman and just frame the Iraqis in the first place?
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
2015/01/25 14:52:47
Subject: Re:I don't normally go in for conspiracy theories but... War by Deception is pretty convincing
Oh lord, another "9-11 was an inside job!" conspiracy. Can't we just get another "The holocaust is a lie!" thread going? They have the same information value, but the latter appears less often. Just for variety's sake.
People claiming to be able to "prove" anything the government had their hands in, let alone inter-governmental affairs, should get nodded off.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/25 15:38:45
If I know that the messenger is a lying anti-semetic piece of crap, then I don't need to hear his message to determine that it is going to be more of his lying anti-semetic crap.
2015/01/25 16:14:54
Subject: I don't normally go in for conspiracy theories but... War by Deception is pretty convincing
Peregrine wrote: So believing that the government was responsible for the actual 9/11 attacks requires an assumption that our government is run by a bunch of comic book villains who do stupid stuff just because of how evil it is.
The only halfway "reasonable" 9/11 conspiracy theory is that the government knew about the terrorists but didn't stop them because a real terror attack is better than a faked one. Wait for a stupid plane hijacking, send in the FBI to stop it, profit. Then things went way worse than anyone could have believed.
And even this assumes someone wouldn't out the guy who said "let's wait for them to do something".
2015/01/25 16:18:14
Subject: Re:I don't normally go in for conspiracy theories but... War by Deception is pretty convincing
Medium of Death wrote: Did you watch the video or are you just going to read The Interpreter?
No one here's gonna watch your video. Not just because it's by a bigoted nut, but because it's been 13 years since the event and everyone and their mother that has some conspiracy has the same idea. You also haven't actually given any reason for us to watch it beyond "OMG, you guys, watch this!"
Seriously, what shocking new data does this guy have that's so much more convincing and informative than any other theory? Why not outline what you think is so important from it to try and convince us to watch it rather than just shove a video in our face and tell us to do so because you said so? You may not think 30 minutes is a significant time investment, but seriously, there's a lot more that we could do with that time than watch some guy with an agenda against Jews rant about why he thinks Israel and the US maybe possibly pulled off this attack.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/25 16:19:37
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2015/01/25 16:34:45
Subject: Re:I don't normally go in for conspiracy theories but... War by Deception is pretty convincing
seriously, in this world of the internet, to think any one could keep a secret about the US being involved in the 9/11 attacks or anyone other then Al-Queada being involved in those attacks, has a brighter outlook on humanity then most, considering there are no such thing as secrets, or hidden things in todays world.
also Ryan Dawson (if hes the guy the OP is talking about) is nothing but a jew hating racist.
ok just watched the video, and wondering why he is using info that has already been proven false, like the FBI mentioning about a car bomb, wasn't FBI was a firefighter who said that and the news came out and admitted they erred.
ok just realized this guy is a nut job, MoD seriously, why did you post this? Seriously? are these your beliefs and what you believe in? if so I'm gonna have to find a way to just put you on ignore.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2015/01/25 17:02:35
Subject: I don't normally go in for conspiracy theories but... War by Deception is pretty convincing
You know, just posting videos and saying "WATCH EET" only shows that you have no interest in making a point on your own. Just throwing videos at people is a lazy way of discussing.
Gotta spoil it with reality 
