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I was considering getting my skaven up and running again and I bought the warlord model the other day on a whim.
Now that I'm starting to come up with army lists I struggling to find a place for him and was wondering if there is a place in 1500-2000 point games for a warlord.
And if I were to take him, what would be the best build for him?

Apparently the skaven brew combo with a big unit of storm vermin had potential. pop that sucker when you need to and watch things die (one way or another)

Yeah. A cheap one with a shield, halberd, and heavy armour.

That way, if your seer dies, you don't give up even more points.

I was thinking if you can use a Warlord, or at least a Chieftain in a 1000 to 1500 list, and what you write seem a bit, eh, negative on that point. Can you really not use him? I was thinking that a Heavy Armour, Additional Weapon, Foul Pendant and some other magical stuff would be nice to kill a lot of rank and file, and then flee when challenged to a duel. The Skavenbrew-Stormvermin combo sounds fun as hell too, and could really make for a crushing unit I believe!

Warlords are pretty potent for their points. I go hog wild with mine:

Bonebreaker
Shield
Ogre Blade
Foul Pendant
Dragonhelm


Just don't expect him to go toe-to-toe with actual combat characters like Blender lords or anything like that. He won't. He'll die. What he will do is give your CR a serious boost and let you win a few combats now and then. At T5 W4 2+/5++ he's actually pretty durable as well.

Can't find points for one? What? Haha

Warlords are such cheap and effective leaders for skaven but lots of people overlook them because they want a grey seer.

Multiple useful builds for them. Armour of destiny, halberd is good.
Warlitter is also a solid choice. Usually I go warlord, halberd, warlitter and armour of destiny and that works well. He's a better fighter than a grey seer if he ever gets in combat and well...its just a less obvious target because your opponent will be trying to take out your wizard.

streamdragon wrote:I go hog wild with mine:

Bonebreaker
Shield
Ogre Blade
Foul Pendant
Dragonhelm

Once upon a time I used to run double bonebreakers:

Warlord - warlock-augmented weapon, talisman of preservation, dragonhelm, shield; bonebreaker
Warlord - ogre blade, armor of destiny, dragonbane gem, potion of foolhardiness, shield; bonebreaker

Same cost for both, first one is the general and plods with clanrat bus, second one berzerks out of his own clanrats into big things / flaming targets. Actually one of my most successful Skaven builds, which I weirdly haven't returned to

chiefbigredman wrote:Warlitter is also a solid choice. Usually I go warlord, halberd, warlitter and armour of destiny and that works well.

I haven't messed with warlitterlords much. I usually just use it to get another pip of armor ... but it tends to be countered by having a wider frontage. I always wanted to try something like giant blade + dawnstone + e.shield + warlitter, and then try to pick my battles and not go up against S6+ things? Rerollable 5+ not being that reassuring for a rat.

The Wise Dane wrote:I was thinking that a Heavy Armour, Additional Weapon, Foul Pendant and some other magical stuff would be nice to kill a lot of rank and file, and then flee when challenged to a duel. The Skavenbrew-Stormvermin combo sounds fun as hell too, and could really make for a crushing unit I believe!

Skavenbrew is pretty cool, and for a bit I took a hero (I forget which kind, might have been my BSB!) dedicated to drugging up a horde of stormies and then getting the fakk out of there! I actually rode that build to the top of an RTT one time (double stormvermin hordes ), only to be dismantled by Wood Elves, which lacked a center to shove frothing rats into. I think I stopped using the brew because I literally only wanted Hatred, and consider the other results unfortunate (Frenzy overruns suck) to bad (Frenzy + dying every turn) - but then I always run RUIN, so often have access to my own Death Frenzy.

But you're right, we were talking about builds for warlords on foot. At this point, I have two builds I use:

Warlord - armor of destiny, great weapon (dragonbane given the points)

OR

Warlord - the fellblade, shield

In the first case, this guy's my general, and while he doesn't necessarily want to be in combat, he's ok riding the front of a death frenzied stormy bus, chunking out 6 S6 and hoping his 4+ ward holds. And the other warlord has a WMD (and is soooooo not the general)

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:

The Wise Dane wrote:I was thinking that a Heavy Armour, Additional Weapon, Foul Pendant and some other magical stuff would be nice to kill a lot of rank and file, and then flee when challenged to a duel. The Skavenbrew-Stormvermin combo sounds fun as hell too, and could really make for a crushing unit I believe!

Skavenbrew is pretty cool, and for a bit I took a hero (I forget which kind, might have been my BSB!) dedicated to drugging up a horde of stormies and then getting the fakk out of there! I actually rode that build to the top of an RTT one time (double stormvermin hordes ), only to be dismantled by Wood Elves, which lacked a center to shove frothing rats into. I think I stopped using the brew because I literally only wanted Hatred, and consider the other results unfortunate (Frenzy overruns suck) to bad (Frenzy + dying every turn) - but then I always run RUIN, so often have access to my own Death Frenzy.

But you're right, we were talking about builds for warlords on foot. At this point, I have two builds I use:

Warlord - armor of destiny, great weapon (dragonbane given the points)

OR

Warlord - the fellblade, shield

In the first case, this guy's my general, and while he doesn't necessarily want to be in combat, he's ok riding the front of a death frenzied stormy bus, chunking out 6 S6 and hoping his 4+ ward holds. And the other warlord has a WMD (and is soooooo not the general)

- Salvage

I've always loved the idea behind the Fellblade... "YOU will die, and YOU will die, and..."

I could imagine it is overkill for the most part, though... Only really, really big things are gonna fear that, as small things will die all the same, and then, you might as well choose to run some WLCs instead. And for 100 pt... Just, wow.

What I want is something that will remove smaller models with abondon, while being reasonable survivable at the same time. Also, cheap. Sorta, at least. Also also, would be great if it fit the IoB model

How about:

Warlord - sword of swift slaying, armor of destiny, dragonbane gem, potion of strength, shield = 193

ASF to make his attaks hit, 4/4+ save to help him survive combat, d-gem for flaming counter, potion to tear down big things / heavy armor. Combined with Death Frenzy, that's 6 S7 attaks that reroll to hit vs most of the Warhammer World

EDIT: And it should be noted that unlike the halberd warlord, this dude can shiv ethereal bastards with his glowy sword

- Salvage

Thats pretty cool

The fellblade is nice sure but it means you get no armor and chances are monsters and large targets as fast moving as they are won't go over to it if they know he has it. If anything you might have to try skitterleaping him around to get close to certain enemies you want to fight. I can imagine this doing the most damage vs monsters and monstrous cavalry but it'd be hilarious vs something like a steam tank or even a tomb kings monster.

Like i said though it's very fragile and if it misses its hits or flubs its d6 wounds then things can go downhill pretty fast.

Personally my load-out which seems to work is:

Warlord, heavy armor (this comes as base equipment), enchanted shield, ogre blade (+2 strength), talisman of preservation and a war litter. This gives your warlord a 2+ armor and 4++ ward which is rather impressive and the amount of hits he can take means that he generally won't die. This usually works best as my general but the war litter warlord which isn't your general can also be skitterleapt into the back of an enemy's army if they have cannons and should live long enough to kill at least a few cannons. In fact sometimes i can kill all the enemy artillery without my warlord dying. It's fairly effective. That said you're probably better off with the +1 armor save vs shooting attacks shield and a 4++ ward save if you can manage it.

What you are all seeming to forget is that Skaven characters aren't that fighty.

You can't get the armour save for combat without making him especially vulnerable to war machines.

If you take one, you take him just to be the general, to stop your seer(Who is a far better use of lord points) from giving up an additional 100 points when it dies. All a Warlord is good at killing is infantry, which, when you consider his cost, the equivalent number of points in stormvermin/clanrats will do better.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
What you are all seeming to forget is that Skaven characters aren't that fighty.

But some of us keep the dream alive

On actually running the fell-lord, I've had admittedly poor results, particularly in tournament settings. While he can get lucky and nuke a stank or soul grinder occasionally, in most games he earns an effective 0 VP: few knights here, couple mournfang there, utterly vaporized champion over there. Thanks to burning out + reprisal attaks from units, the fell-lord only really shines against single targets (no matter the size!), and those have to get caught or wade into his stormvermin bus of their own power

That said, 193 points is a brilliant price for a Potentially Amazeballs super weapon, one I'm usually happy to pay just on the off chance of glory

- Salvage

I tend to run mine with Ogre Blade, Foul Pendant, Warpstone Armor, and Shield. He runs around in a block of Stormvermin.

Keepin' the dream(and my army's fluff) alive!

 thedarkavenger wrote:

All a Warlord is good at killing is infantry, which, when you consider his cost, the equivalent number of points in stormvermin/clanrats will do better.

This is true of just about every character in the game.
The warlord and punch heavy armor, and storm vermin aren't all that good at that.

-Matt

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

All a Warlord is good at killing is infantry, which, when you consider his cost, the equivalent number of points in stormvermin/clanrats will do better.

This is true of just about every character in the game.
The warlord and punch heavy armor, and storm vermin aren't all that good at that.

-Matt

The entire reason I take combat characters is to do something that my army doesn't do. So I take dreadlords who can deal with armour, or hold up units. Skaven characters don't have the capability to do any of that.

 Boss Salvage wrote:

streamdragon wrote:I go hog wild with mine:

Bonebreaker
Shield
Ogre Blade
Foul Pendant
Dragonhelm

Once upon a time I used to run double bonebreakers:

Warlord - warlock-augmented weapon, talisman of preservation, dragonhelm, shield; bonebreaker
Warlord - ogre blade, armor of destiny, dragonbane gem, potion of foolhardiness, shield; bonebreaker

Same cost for both, first one is the general and plods with clanrat bus, second one berzerks out of his own clanrats into big things / flaming targets. Actually one of my most successful Skaven builds, which I weirdly haven't returned to :S

-- Salvage

Oh believe me, I've read all your battle reports!

@TDA A Warlord on a Bonebreaker accounts for more than just the Stormvermin alone though. His base is 40mmx40mm, which is only 4 stormvermin, throwing out 4 attacks. The Bonebreaker alone gets more attacks than that. Will he take as many wounds as his equivalent Stormvermin? Naturally, no. But he'll dish out more damage in a round, save wounds that they CAN'T save, and all in a 40mmx40mm base, which is useful for hiding other characters if you have full command. I also despise caster generals, since one bad spell and you dimensional cascade your way into giving up Warlord points.

 streamdragon wrote:
@TDA A Warlord on a Bonebreaker accounts for more than just the Stormvermin alone though. His base is 40mmx40mm, which is only 4 stormvermin, throwing out 4 attacks. The Bonebreaker alone gets more attacks than that. Will he take as many wounds as his equivalent Stormvermin? Naturally, no. But he'll dish out more damage in a round, save wounds that they CAN'T save, and all in a 40mmx40mm base, which is useful for hiding other characters if you have full command. I also despise caster generals, since one bad spell and you dimensional cascade your way into giving up Warlord points.

That is not what I meant in the slightest.

A warlord is 90. A bonebreaker is 65. Assuming he's kitted out to survive, He'll be around the 200 mark.

This gives you 25 Stormvermin. Which is far more useful.

A 96 point Warlord does the same job, which is to be your general. For less than 100 points.

I was implying that he gives you a few options that simple stormvermin don't. Like hiding characters in a second rank. I'm also implying he's far more worthwhile in a single round than his equivalent in Stormvermin. 25 stormvermin is nice, but it's not like all 25 attack at once or anything.

 streamdragon wrote:
I was implying that he gives you a few options that simple stormvermin don't. Like hiding characters in a second rank. I'm also implying he's far more worthwhile in a single round than his equivalent in Stormvermin. 25 stormvermin is nice, but it's not like all 25 attack at once or anything.

But 25 stormvermin are better in combat. And provide you with steadfast. Hiding characters is nice, but if anything wants to kill a Skaven character, it will. You're no elf or WoC combat character.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
This gives you 25 Stormvermin. Which is far more useful.

This is mildly hilarious, given how often you've told me stormvermin are garbage, TDA

Also, my army already has 100+ stormies. Why would I want 25 more? A S5+ T5 W4 A9+ critter in likely high armor and a ward does SO much more than even more Skaven infantry ever could!

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
This gives you 25 Stormvermin. Which is far more useful.

This is mildly hilarious, given how often you've told me stormvermin are garbage, TDA

Also, my army already has 100+ stormies. Why would I want 25 more? A S5+ T5 W4 A9+ critter in likely high armor and a ward does SO much more than even more Skaven infantry ever could!

- Salvage

Unless i'm mistaken it falls under monstrous beasts so you're only allowed the 4 wounds as it's the higher amount. I think that's how it was classified in the rulebook for 8th.

Anyone try running a ton of bone breakers?
With the new 50% lords, you could run 4 decently equipped ones.
The hitting power they can dish out is impressive.

-Matt

flamingkillamajig wrote:Unless i'm mistaken it falls under monstrous beasts so you're only allowed the 4 wounds as it's the higher amount. I think that's how it was classified in the rulebook for 8th.

Yep, hence the T5 W4

HawaiiMatt wrote:Anyone try running a ton of bone breakers?

I've wanted to play with a handful of min 'breakers (warlord w/ halberd, shield, breaker) supporting a grey seer, but haven't given it a shot thanks to my Skaven being backburnered while my daemons go play. Some day though.

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
This gives you 25 Stormvermin. Which is far more useful.

This is mildly hilarious, given how often you've told me stormvermin are garbage, TDA

Also, my army already has 100+ stormies. Why would I want 25 more? A S5+ T5 W4 A9+ critter in likely high armor and a ward does SO much more than even more Skaven infantry ever could!

- Salvage

I don't rate stormvermin outside of a single build. And I rate skaven combat characters far less. There is a difference between useful and pointless redundancy.

What about just cheap and cheerful for combat res? I was thinking Halberd+Tail Weapon+Poison, 115 and he gets 5 poison attacks (4 at S5 1 at S3), maybe some decent magic armor and/or a ward save, but I think that does a good amount of damage.

Similarly you can get nearly he same results with a Chieftain, just 1 less attack.

I don't think a Skaven Warlord of Chieftain can really go toe-to-toe with any other combat characters from other armies quite frankly, but they can help out for their points regardless.

 More Dakka wrote:
I don't think a Skaven Warlord of Chieftain can really go toe-to-toe with any other combat characters from other armies quite frankly, but they can help out for their points regardless.

I keep seeing this stipulation (not just from you, mind) and I don't think anyone is saying that they can. Most of us admit whole heartedly that they can not match other combat characters. They're not supposed to. Skaven play a little backward in this regard. We want to make sure your super duper trounce-o-matic blender lord ends up in B2B with a bunch of underling skaven. Skaven characters are for putting a hurt on rank and file (to boost CR), as well as tanking attacks from enemy rank and file. I mean, skaven warlords are cheap for a reason.

 streamdragon wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
I don't think a Skaven Warlord of Chieftain can really go toe-to-toe with any other combat characters from other armies quite frankly, but they can help out for their points regardless.

I keep seeing this stipulation (not just from you, mind) and I don't think anyone is saying that they can. Most of us admit whole heartedly that they can not match other combat characters. They're not supposed to. Skaven play a little backward in this regard. We want to make sure your super duper trounce-o-matic blender lord ends up in B2B with a bunch of underling skaven. Skaven characters are for putting a hurt on rank and file (to boost CR), as well as tanking attacks from enemy rank and file. I mean, skaven warlords are cheap for a reason.

Their cheapness is so they can sit back and provide Leadership. If you want combat potential, and combat res, more models is always the better choice.

So just keep them naked and in the back, or tool them up defensively? So far I've found that I can't afford for my decent sized blocks to sit back and have the luxury to avoid any combat, esp since I need to maintain a leadership bubble.

Oh, one build I was toying with for fun was this:

WL
Hand weapon+shield
Poison
Tailweapon
Warpstone Armor
Dawnstone
Warlitter

For 206 he gets 2+ with rerollable causing S4 auto hits for every save, then he does 5 poison attacks, plus his warlitter attacks. Only 6+ ward save in CC, but I mean it seems decent to me.

Made my list the other day, and found out that we're not allowed to use Lords and only Heroes, so... Chieftain, here we come.

Chieftain.
- Warpstone Armour.
- Additional Weapon.
- Rat Hound Bodyguard.
- Onyx Talisman.

This guys is basically here to screw over rank and file, and to hit back who dun hit ya. He won't stack up to my friend's Noble on Gryphon, but mine is not meant to, just to kill his stupid Spearmelves.

He's still pretty hitty for a 1000 pt list Hero, but might be just as good on a Warlord in a larger list...