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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/27 20:21:00
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The Solitaire has been the deadliest of the Harlequins pretty much since they were first conceived of by GW. I get the whole "he's willingly damned, works alone, and is therefore creepy" theme that GW has had going with the Solitaire, however I do not think it has ever been explained within universe why the Solitaire is more deadly and skilled than the average Great Harlequin/Troupe Leader. You would think that if the Laughing God were to invest power into someone, it would be the follower that represents him and whose soul is not automatically forfeit to Slaanesh upon death. Perhaps it might be some metaphysical effect or trade off in the act of becoming a Solitaire, where the act of condemning oneself to damnation in the afterlife (in effect selling your soul) buys incredible physical prowess or mystical ability (the new Solitaire entry makes reference to Solitaires running up sheer walls or possibly slowing time).
I hope the new Harlequin release sheds a little more light on the Harlequins and is not limited to rehashing the old background.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/27 20:24:20
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Sinewy Scourge
Commoragh (closer to the bottom)
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Iracundus wrote:The Solitaire has been the deadliest of the Harlequins pretty much since they were first conceived of by GW. I get the whole "he's willingly damned, works alone, and is therefore creepy" theme that GW has had going with the Solitaire, however I do not think it has ever been explained within universe why the Solitaire is more deadly and skilled than the average Great Harlequin/Troupe Leader. You would think that if the Laughing God were to invest power into someone, it would be the follower that represents him and whose soul is not automatically forfeit to Slaanesh upon death. Perhaps it might be some metaphysical effect or trade off in the act of becoming a Solitaire, where the act of condemning oneself to damnation in the afterlife (in effect selling your soul) buys incredible physical prowess or mystical ability (the new Solitaire entry makes reference to Solitaires running up sheer walls or possibly slowing time).
I hope the new Harlequin release sheds a little more light on the Harlequins and is not limited to rehashing the old background.
It is funny that you bring this up. Me and my buddy wondered the same thing. Did slaanesh give him the powers for selling his soul? Did the laughing god give him these powers? It really is a strange case that I cant seem to grasp.
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Wyzilla wrote:Saying the Eldar won the War in Heaven is like saying a child won a fight with a murderer simply because after breaking into his house, shooting his mother and father through the head, the thug took off in a car instead of finishing off the kid.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/27 20:40:01
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor
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Or would the Laughing God not consider his greatest follower the one to be that has the most to lose?
Even through our own history, we have instances in which the greater the sacrifice was, would supposedly gain greater reward from the god in whose name the sacrifice was being made. What's greater than self sacrifice to protect your own family?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/27 21:03:02
Subject: Re:Why the Solitaire?
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Stoic Grail Knight
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It's because he's super badass and kewl.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/27 21:14:43
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Poisonous Kroot Headhunter
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I thought it was due to them not having to hold back because they have already lost their souls so they don't have to worry about enjoying the fight too much and losing themselves to the great devourer? Knowing this they throw themselves into battle using the deadliest dances.
I'm sure I read this in a citadel journal that had a Harlequin rmy in it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/27 21:34:55
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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The Solitaire represents Slaanesh, so of course he's bad news.
As I recall a Solitaire not only gives up their identity, they surrender all protection from Slaanesh devouring their soul on death. A Solitaire takes on something of Slaanesh's aura, which would have to be creepy in a sensory-overload kind of way. For a psychically attuned race like Eldar the impact of that aura would have to be magnified manyfold.
No wonder even talking to an incognito Solitaire is said by the Eldar the harbinger of terrible ill fortune.
I'm working from memory here, so feel free to correct me.
<<Edit: The Laughing God is much weaker than Slaanesh. Slannesh ate the other Eldar gods (Except for Khaine who was shattered into his Avatars and Isha who is supposedly a 'guest' in Nurgle's Garden). Cegorach only survived by hiding from Slaanesh in the Webway, so yeah, he's definitely weaker than 'She-who-thirsts'.>>
My two teef.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/27 21:37:49
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/27 22:27:35
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought
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Iracundus wrote:The Solitaire has been the deadliest of the Harlequins pretty much since they were first conceived of by GW. I get the whole "he's willingly damned, works alone, and is therefore creepy" theme that GW has had going with the Solitaire, however I do not think it has ever been explained within universe why the Solitaire is more deadly and skilled than the average Great Harlequin/Troupe Leader. You would think that if the Laughing God were to invest power into someone, it would be the follower that represents him and whose soul is not automatically forfeit to Slaanesh upon death. Perhaps it might be some metaphysical effect or trade off in the act of becoming a Solitaire, where the act of condemning oneself to damnation in the afterlife (in effect selling your soul) buys incredible physical prowess or mystical ability (the new Solitaire entry makes reference to Solitaires running up sheer walls or possibly slowing time).
I hope the new Harlequin release sheds a little more light on the Harlequins and is not limited to rehashing the old background.
Psychic powers cannot be used against the Solitaire, he's a bit like a blank in that manner. Which is why he's able to do stuff like take on an entire troupe of Slaaneshi daemons, and even beat Keepers of Secrets in duels.
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“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.” |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/27 23:40:08
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Angry Blood Angel Assault marine
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Well also his soul is not auto to Slaanesh,
" unlike other Harlequins, who are protected by their faith in Cegorach, their souls are doomed to be devoured by Slaanesh, although the Laughing God attempts to intercede on the Solitaire's behalf after their death and force the Prince of Chaos to compete for his or her soul."
so it is a gamble on gaining there soul. I also think it shows great power to act like She who Thirsts in the first place seeing how the Eldar are.
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Do you ever go into a fight thinking "there's no point giving it my best, I'll get another chance later?"
We only ever get one shot marlin. Life is one shot |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/28 00:12:06
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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I suspects its a kind of "Sell your soul to the devil" kind if deal like we have in modern culture to describe someone who sold their "wholesome" qualities like integrity for riches or influence. The Solitaire gives up any hope of post-mortem rest for incredible real world power.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/28 04:30:18
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Fixture of Dakka
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No need to hold back. Those Farseers? That is when they hold back...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/28 11:37:21
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Wyzilla wrote:Iracundus wrote:The Solitaire has been the deadliest of the Harlequins pretty much since they were first conceived of by GW. I get the whole "he's willingly damned, works alone, and is therefore creepy" theme that GW has had going with the Solitaire, however I do not think it has ever been explained within universe why the Solitaire is more deadly and skilled than the average Great Harlequin/Troupe Leader. You would think that if the Laughing God were to invest power into someone, it would be the follower that represents him and whose soul is not automatically forfeit to Slaanesh upon death. Perhaps it might be some metaphysical effect or trade off in the act of becoming a Solitaire, where the act of condemning oneself to damnation in the afterlife (in effect selling your soul) buys incredible physical prowess or mystical ability (the new Solitaire entry makes reference to Solitaires running up sheer walls or possibly slowing time).
I hope the new Harlequin release sheds a little more light on the Harlequins and is not limited to rehashing the old background.
Psychic powers cannot be used against the Solitaire, he's a bit like a blank in that manner. Which is why he's able to do stuff like take on an entire troupe of Slaaneshi daemons, and even beat Keepers of Secrets in duels.
You are thinking of the experimental Harlequin Codex from the old Citadel Journal. The current rules for the Solitaire do not show any such immunity to psychic powers.
As for why it is the Solitaire has such super powers, I wonder whether it is due to the specific link between the Solitaire and Slaanesh. We have an example from the Chaos Daemons Codex of the Masque losing a dance off against a Solitaire. This would appear to suggest a Solitaire can be so at one with Slaanesh as to beat even one of Slaanesh's own daemons at being Slaanesh. Perhaps the link is a two way thing in that the Solitaire's soul is forfeit (barring those uncommon times when the Laughing God can trick Slaanesh out of it) but the upside is the Solitaire can access a tiny bit of Slaanesh's power and channel some of Slaanesh's supernatural speed and grace.
That said, there is some Harlequin background in the BL novel Valedor:
1. Above the level of Troupe is Great Troupe, and the greatest of the Great Harlequins are called Harlequin King.
2. While waiting with a Halequin King, Lelith Hesperax wonders whether she can take a Harlequin King on in combat. She suspects he might be one of the few individuals in the galaxy able to beat her. She catches his gaze while thinking this and he seems to know what she is thinking and wags a warning finger, shaking his head slowly. Lelith actually fears a small rush of fear, but finds this exciting.
We shall have to see if there is anything like this in the Harlequin Codex/Supplement, or whether this is retconned away, or simply not mentioned.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/28 12:48:49
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Deadshot wrote:I suspects its a kind of "Sell your soul to the devil" kind if deal like we have in modern culture to describe someone who sold their "wholesome" qualities like integrity for riches or influence. The Solitaire gives up any hope of post-mortem rest for incredible real world power.
This seems likely answer. There is apparently no single way a person can "lose his soul". Maybe it was traded away for power, or the Eldar in question became lost in his Path - either way, it seems to open ways to gain great abilities.
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Mr Vetock, give back my Multi-tracker! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/28 12:57:23
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Battleship Captain
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Indeed.
We see one Harlequin Solitaire in the Masque of Vyle short story, and he's clearly doing much more than simply wearing slaanesh-coloured spandex. He's actually channeling slaanesh on a fundamental level - which os probably why, strength and toughness aside - the solitaire's stats look suspiciously similar to a Keeper of Secrets'
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Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/29 00:22:42
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Warp-Screaming Noise Marine
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Remember that the Aspects are there to stop Eldar fully devoting themselves to anything too fully. I guess a Solitaire is a sign of just how deadly Eldar can become when unfettered and touched by two different gods...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/30 16:27:30
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer
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That and they eat souls. And seemingly different than how Dark Eldar do it. Maybe that has something to do with it?
Source, Masque of Vyle,
That aside, Totally stealing Motley for my Solitaire when they're released.
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10k+ Tau, Ke'lshan
10k Dark Eldar Kabal of the Flayed skull
1k Scions
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/30 18:04:49
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Sinewy Scourge
Commoragh (closer to the bottom)
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NauticalKendall wrote:That and they eat souls. And seemingly different than how Dark Eldar do it. Maybe that has something to do with it?
Source, Masque of Vyle,
That aside, Totally stealing Motley for my Solitaire when they're released.
I like the character....But im not sure he would make a good solitaire. Maybe a troupe leader?
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Wyzilla wrote:Saying the Eldar won the War in Heaven is like saying a child won a fight with a murderer simply because after breaking into his house, shooting his mother and father through the head, the thug took off in a car instead of finishing off the kid.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/30 22:57:37
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The Solitaire represents Slaanesh. Slaanesh is MUCH stronger than the Laughing God, so it'd make no sense for whoever represents the Laughing God to be stronger than the guy that represents Slaanesh. The point of the Harlequin's dance is to warn people of the truth and of the folly of pride and hubris, not to have the Laughing God pretend he's stronger than Slaanesh when he damn well knows he isn't (which... would also be an extreme act of pride and hubris if he did that).
NauticalKendall wrote:That and they eat souls. And seemingly different than how Dark Eldar do it. Maybe that has something to do with it?
Source, Masque of Vyle,
That aside, Totally stealing Motley for my Solitaire when they're released.
Well, the Solitaire does represent Slaanesh. Given how Slaanesh is always devouring souls, I guess it'd make sense for the Solitaire to have that ability as well. (I wouldn't be too surprised of Solitaires were in a way avatars of Slaanesh, possibly similar to how Keepers of Secrets are technically aspects of the god that created them, as pointed out by their stats being similar. Eldar souls already belong to Slaanesh by default so one who's job is to act as Slaanesh might take that a step further. At the very least the fluff makes it clear their souls are bound to Slaanesh instead of the Laughing God like all the other Harlequins)
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/01/30 23:01:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/30 23:11:01
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer
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DaKKaLAnce wrote:NauticalKendall wrote:That and they eat souls. And seemingly different than how Dark Eldar do it. Maybe that has something to do with it?
Source, Masque of Vyle,
That aside, Totally stealing Motley for my Solitaire when they're released.
I like the character....But im not sure he would make a good solitaire. Maybe a troupe leader?
I would make him a troupe leader if he wasn't already a solitaire in the path novels and Masque of Vyle. Although he will need to be a kitbash since the Solitaire model doesn't lend itself to looking like him at all. We'll see, I might just make that long coat a black/white check pattern.
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10k+ Tau, Ke'lshan
10k Dark Eldar Kabal of the Flayed skull
1k Scions
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/30 23:24:34
Subject: Re:Why the Solitaire?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Now without digging out my old..old..old..decrepit WD with the original Harlequin fluff...I seem to remember, that not every troupe had a solitaire..and the access or arrival of one was what allowed the "great dance" or whatever it was called..to be preformed.
And some blurb that stated that only the most talented, daring, yadda yadda...harlequin ever tried to dance the part of the great enemy...so...
I guess its a rough casting call..and then you become a cowboy with a loaded six string on your back..cause your wanted..wanted..for the great dance!
I always assumed they were deadly lil dandilion eaters cause they were a troupe leader/great harlequin..then a solo wanderer..and all that builds into a nasty immortal clown.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/30 23:31:13
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/04 06:37:18
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Deadly Dark Eldar Warrior
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Solitaries all have the pariah gene (aka blanks) which natural cause fear to all people (psykers especially). They are not effected by psychic powers like mind control. Being a blank they have no soul. The Harlequins themselves are not completely immune to slaneesh they have to be fought for by the Laughing Gods however a solitaire has no souls to fight for.this is also the reason why only a solitaire can represent slaneesh in the dance of the fall. Any other Harlequin turns into a demon of slaneesh.
Edit: Solitares don't possess the pariah gene but essential have the same effect as having it. Have a soul but is lost to slaneesh
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/04 06:44:08
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/04 10:54:04
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh
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WD 105 says on the Solitaire
Solitaires (arebennian) are outside the masque, and roam the universe alone, occasionally joining a masque for a single performance or battle as the fancy takes them. They are the only Harlequins who can play the role of Slaanesh in the great Harlequin masterwork known as The Dance; various stories exist of other Harlequins who have tried, and been driven mad by the experience. They almost always fight as Individuals.
Among the Eldar it is said that Solitaires are Harlequins who have been touched directly by the Great Harlequin, and have his insight into the fall of the race and the nature of the universe. A Solitaire may live unknown among Eldar (or even members of another race) for years or decades, and there are many rumours and folk-tales telling of Eldar who have met a Solitaire, and realised later that this was the Great Harlequin himself. Solitaires represent the very pinnacle of the Harlequin ideal, and are formidable foes.
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No pity, no remorse, no shoes |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/04 13:01:03
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Wolf Guard Bodyguard in Terminator Armor
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I vaguely recall an early fluff blurb where in order to become a solitaire a Harlequin has to voluntarily allow himself to be possessed by a Daemon of Slaanesh and overcome the possession himself; ie, cast out the daemon through sheer willpower.
I may be mixing that up with something else though.
That by itself should be an indication of extreme badassness. Plus as others have said, only the most talented of Harlequins can even attempt to become a Solitaire.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/04 13:13:11
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Bran Dawri wrote:I vaguely recall an early fluff blurb where in order to become a solitaire a Harlequin has to voluntarily allow himself to be possessed by a Daemon of Slaanesh and overcome the possession himself; ie, cast out the daemon through sheer willpower.
I may be mixing that up with something else though.
That by itself should be an indication of extreme badassness. Plus as others have said, only the most talented of Harlequins can even attempt to become a Solitaire.
Despite it being repeated over and over again on forums over many years, not once has anyone been able to produce quoted evidence of this. Literally every time I have seen this topic and every time there has been a request for evidence, there has been conspicuous silence or at best a claim they heard it from someone else or read it on Lexicanum (which has also since purged this unverified claim).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/05 06:33:26
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Wolf Guard Bodyguard in Terminator Armor
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Entirely possible. I already mentioned being unsure of this. I was actually kind of hoping someone would know where it came from.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/05 07:03:19
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
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The OP has the causality backwards. The Harlequins pick the coolest guy to play Slaanesh because he's the most likely to survive with whatever complications that gives him.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/05 08:29:50
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Iracundus wrote:Bran Dawri wrote:I vaguely recall an early fluff blurb where in order to become a solitaire a Harlequin has to voluntarily allow himself to be possessed by a Daemon of Slaanesh and overcome the possession himself; ie, cast out the daemon through sheer willpower.
I may be mixing that up with something else though.
That by itself should be an indication of extreme badassness. Plus as others have said, only the most talented of Harlequins can even attempt to become a Solitaire.
Despite it being repeated over and over again on forums over many years, not once has anyone been able to produce quoted evidence of this. Literally every time I have seen this topic and every time there has been a request for evidence, there has been conspicuous silence or at best a claim they heard it from someone else or read it on Lexicanum (which has also since purged this unverified claim).
People are probably mixing up the solitaire with the space marine chapter, the Exorcists.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/06 00:53:26
Subject: Why the Solitaire?
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Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor
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ravengatorfan wrote:Solitaries all have the pariah gene (aka blanks) which natural cause fear to all people (psykers especially). They are not effected by psychic powers like mind control. Being a blank they have no soul. The Harlequins themselves are not completely immune to slaneesh they have to be fought for by the Laughing Gods however a solitaire has no souls to fight for.this is also the reason why only a solitaire can represent slaneesh in the dance of the fall. Any other Harlequin turns into a demon of slaneesh.
Edit: Solitares don't possess the pariah gene but essential have the same effect as having it. Have a soul but is lost to slaneesh
Slight addendum here just for clarity according to the latest white dwarf - solitaires do have a soul, and they are at massive risk of being gobbled up by Slaanesh. However, all harlequins are "promised" to Cegorach, who goes and fights to free their souls from Slaanesh / his or her underlings.
Not word for word, though I'm summarising.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/07 04:18:02
Subject: Re:Why the Solitaire?
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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Culexus Assassin's are the closest equivalent in the fluff.
They manifest their powers through the animus speculum.
Perhaps Solitaires can harness warp energy in the same manner without the need for one.
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