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I've read through the currently 6 pages on Power level of Necrons and I'm still "slightly" unsure.
Nearing somewhat "completion" with my DA I was on the lookout for a new army to go for in the middle of the year. I narrowed down from 3 or 4 dexes to 'Crons and liked them the most. After hearing how "internally balanced" and "good" the new Necron 'Dex is supposed to be, I got a hold on it early on release.

Now, the more I read into it and the more I see on the net... Is the general consensus that they are over the top?
How would they compare, say, to the Tau? Background to this question is that my usual opponent is going for the fish faces and we intent to start a new army together, starting low at points and work our way up to full scale 2k games.
He already fondles the Riptide whenever we go to our FLGS for a game, so I expect to see that kind of stuff on the table
I'm pretty sure that bringing those Crons versus his old army of CSM would be a slaughterfest - as would be Tau vs DA. Which is very sad. You bring tau, I bring crons. You bring CSM, I bring DA. Anything else is massacre.

But still, I don't feel comfortable playing an OP Dex... Artificially limiting what I want to bring is quite offputting too. I do not intend to do Wraithspam, but just looking at the new RP and Decurion Detachment makes me wonder...
Can I play "unlimited" Necrons without overpowering my opponent?

Maybe I should look at 'Nids more closely again...

Why do you not feel comfortable? It doesn't matter you spend a small fortune on it so you shouldn't have to justify it, 40k is limited by how much cheese you can get away with anyway and when the next round of codexes come you will be nerfbatted anyway.

Necrons are "overpowered" because they change the meta a bit, side-stepping the plethora of Ignores Cover weapons to ignore cover in favour of Resurrection protocols.

They basically have bolters that glance vehicles. In return, they actually rather lack heavy weaponry. They're resilient, but at the cost of overall damage output.

Necrons FAR outclass Tau. It's like comparing Tau to Non-flyrant Tyranids.

Soteks Prophet wrote:Why do you not feel comfortable? It doesn't matter you spend a small fortune on it so you shouldn't have to justify it, 40k is limited by how much cheese you can get away with anyway and when the next round of codexes come you will be nerfbatted anyway.

Because, while I like to tinker with my lists, I do not want to win because I play with Necrons vs CSM. That would be a onesided slaughter which is not fun for both of us. I want it to be a game, and win, but I don't want to do so on the expense of my opponents fun. I just feel more comfortable winning from a position of underpoweredness than being the Top Dog and squish a lower one.

While I have yet to face them, from reading the rules and seeing the various threads I would say the Necron happen to be the most point efficient army for the durability they posses and damage they can do.

Whether they are 'OP' is kind of your decision. You can make formation that are not particularly cheesy / beardy by running what you like instead of 9 wraiths like you mentioned.

Here's the thing though, if you feel they are too powerful and don't like their play style I wouldn't really recommend it. I played Tau before, but found them (this was in 6e) to be too powerful and boring as I was essentially just rolling to hit and then to wound without any meaningful interaction on my opponents part. I built and painted a riptide, but had to stop bringing it because it was no fun.

If you don't think you'll enjoy Necrons because you have a tendancy to power game then I wouldn't. But if you like the idea of having a bunch of warriors advancing on your enemy then definitely go for it - not need to take a continental breakfast's worth of croissants when you do it.

Going through a similar issue with my own Chaos friend. I limit my Eldar, who I had intended on being a powerful army when I first started them and have shifted to a sniper/renegade list, and I keep my Tyranids from being too powerful because he is my regular opponent but at the end of the day, he is choosing to bring Chaos.

Necrons got a significant bump up but honestly, they're still in the same game as everything else. As long as you don't spam I think your conscience can be clear, even if you take one or two of the powerful Formations.

If you REALLY want to be friendly, take 250pts less that your opponent does. He plays 2000pts of a weak army, you play 1750 of a strong one. Gimps yourself without forcing you to do less than what the army can provide. Just gives a points handicap.

I once beat a fluffy chaos army so bad that it left a bad taste in my mouth. And that was with Sisters. I couldn't imagine playing with this new Necron book.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I once beat a fluffy chaos army so bad that it left a bad taste in my mouth. And that was with Sisters. I couldn't imagine playing with this new Necron book.

Exactly my problem.



Sage advice, thank you all!

That offers me a way out of the predicament... I DO have a tendency to optimize my lists, but within reason. A fluffy TAC list is what I like the most and feel comfortable playing - and if that proves to strong I can impose a point handicap on myself (or in case I go against some... less tolerable persons in my FLGS I can easily ramp it up).

Guess I won't have to go for another dex, then

Aren't non decurion necron much weaker? I guess if you played them without formation few would have had problem with them.

When I played them and have seen them played with the new codex decurion detachment. I didn't find them particularly strong offensively. The problem is they just don't die.

The best I've seen done was Straken in combat with them and causing sweeping advances which seemed to work well.

I do agree that Necrons didn't really gain a lot of offensive punch in their new book, but they did gain durability in spades.

But, I think we'll definitely know more for sure after this weekend, when we see the results from the Las Vegas Open.

 Thairne wrote:

But still, I don't feel comfortable playing an OP Dex...

Why is that? I say play what you want to play. Just like how people who have played Eldar before their 6th edition codex still keep paying Eldar now. They play not because of an over powered codex but because they like or love playing them. So if you like Necrons play Necrons. So play what you want. Play what you will have fun with. Like the fluff, like the minis play it. Who cares what other people say. You are not playing Necrons because they are supposedly over powered. You play Necrons because you enjoy them.

Artificially limiting what I want to bring is quite offputting too.Maybe I should look at 'Nids more closely again...

You didn't really explain yourself on why it's "quite offputting" to limit your self. Why is this? I love Tyranids. You will be playing the same builds over and over again. While I believe you will have fun with Tyranids you have no where the possibilities to choose from like you do in the Necron codex.

I am sorry but this is one of the most stupidest things I have read today. This reminds me on being in the Skyrim forums when people are complaining that Fast Travel is in the game. Just because it's in the game doesn't mean you have to use it. There is Fast Travel in the game for people who want it and asked for it. If you don't like Fast Travel don't use it. Complaining that it's in the game and something you don't have to use seems so stupid when it's in your power not to use it.

So now you have a very well balanced codex that you can choose what to use and not what to use. Trust me, I collect Tyranids. You would love to have what Necrons have and have VARIETY to play different games.

So please explain to me that if you find something in the codex that is too powerful why can't you say "I will not use this unit in this game." While you may not want to use it if you keep beating your friend, you may find another opponent who you may one day say "Dang I wish I had this unit so I can beat this guy." Trust me, you will not find it in the Nid codex. Also when other codices get updated they can get the Necron treatment as well. What are you going to do then? What are you going to do when your friend buys the new powerful codex. Are you still going to be happy with a codex that has limited options?

Use your mind. Comments like these are why we get "dumbed down" codices in 40 like we did with 4th edition Dark Angles, Eldar and Chaos Space Marines. Is that what you really want? Another 4th edition Dark Angel codex?

I like how people constantly say that Necrons didn't gain any firepower. Gaining a S10 Lance, 72" S10 Primary Weapon, and AP3 weaponry, which technically they already had, but has now been made more usable? Plus, they have weight of fire down pat. 20 Warriors rapid-firing and then assaulting can kill whatever they like. Plus, More reasons to have Staffs of Light, which are very good weapons. Also, Ignores Cover AP4 Gauss weapons. Also, Ctans got some pretty good powers (though random).

Necrons kept they're firepower from the previous book, and still gained a bit more. On top of the durability boost.

But, the big thing is the Decurion Detachment. With it, Necrons are crazy powerful, though lack Obj Sec. Without it, they are still twice as tough as they were, and can pull off the same amount of 4+ saves without the detachment, though you have to use more points towards it.

All-in-all, I wouldn't say they are outright OP, at least game-breakingly so. Though, I could easily say they are probably the toughest, most durable, most fluffy 7th edition codex to date.

Necrons without the Decurion are as tough as they were -- less tough than they were against ID weapons, which is now a 6+ instead of a 5+.

Now it is true that now falling back won't keep them from reanimating and that they are less likely to lose close combat. But strictly speaking they are less tough than they were. Outside the Decurion.

Alcibiades wrote:
Necrons without the Decurion are as tough as they were -- less tough than they were against ID weapons, which is now a 6+ instead of a 5+.

Now it is true that now falling back won't keep them from reanimating and that they are less likely to lose close combat. But strictly speaking they are less tough than they were. Outside the Decurion.

Well you have to add Crypteks to make the units as tough as the Decurion.

Yeah, but Crypteks are laughably overpriced for their statline. I mean, they're T4, but they only have a 4+ save and 2 wounds, and they cost as much as a Chaos Lord.

Nothing that's scared of heavy bolters can really be called overpowered.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Yeah, but Crypteks are laughably overpriced for their statline. I mean, they're T4, but they only have a 4+ save and 2 wounds, and they cost as much as a Chaos Lord.

Nothing that's scared of heavy bolters can really be called overpowered.

Well, they have a 4+ FNP thats conferred to their unit. And an AP3 shooting attack. Thats not bad.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Yeah, but Crypteks are laughably overpriced for their statline. I mean, they're T4, but they only have a 4+ save and 2 wounds, and they cost as much as a Chaos Lord.

Nothing that's scared of heavy bolters can really be called overpowered.

Lol wut? Crypteks are more useful than Necron Lords unless you go for a 165+ point cc-monster build on CC-Barge or Destroyer Body in which case the 'Lord becomes relevant again.

Crypteks are great force multipliers when attached to a large squad and the access to the Chronometron makes them key players in getting a unit of your choice to where it needs to be (i.e. leaving cover) without getting shot up in the process.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Necrons are "overpowered" because they change the meta a bit, side-stepping the plethora of Ignores Cover weapons to ignore cover in favour of Resurrection protocols.

Methinks "ignores cover" has relatively little to do with it. There's certainly nothing that prevents them from taking advantage of cover, and many of their units still have armor saves better than the AP of the majority of cover save ignoring weapons, which is usually AP5 or AP6, AP4 in a few heavier weapons, and usually anything better is either relatively rare, limited in use, or requires synergistic capabilities to take advantage of (e.g. Markerlights), and they still benefit from cover heavily when it comes to their vehicles and Jinking as most Ignores Cover weapons lack the necessary Strength to harm their vehicles.

They basically have bolters that glance vehicles. In return, they actually rather lack heavy weaponry. They're resilient, but at the cost of overall damage output.

How do they lack heavier weaponry? They've got access to long range S10 pieplates, lots of S7 shooting, flyers with S10 blast weapons, JSJ Heavy Destroyers with S9 guns, walkers with 2 shot multi-meltas, S7 Armorbane Warscythes, etc.

They lack high rate of fire AP2, but certainly don't lack for heavy weaponry if they want to take it.

Old Reanimation Protocols gave a 5+ to come back, 4+ with a Resurrection Orb. This applied to all attacks.

The new version gives a 5+, 6+ for Instant Death Weapons. The Decurion or a Cryptek makes this 4+ and 5+; both combined make it a 4+ and 4+.

Which is to say that to get the equivalent of the old Resurrection Orb you need the Decurion + a Cryptek.

Alcibiades wrote:
Old Reanimation Protocols gave a 5+ to come back, 4+ with a Resurrection Orb. This applied to all attacks.

The new version gives a 5+, 6+ for Instant Death Weapons. The Decurion or a Cryptek makes this 4+ and 6+; both combined make it a 4+ and 4+.

Which is to say that to get the equivalent of the old Resurrection Orb you need the Decurion + a Cryptek.

In the last book however, it only applied against the last wound a model took, not against every wound (so for multi-wound models like characters, they didn't get the roll on all two or three wounds), and more models now are multi-wound (Destroyers). You could also bypass the ability by wiping the unit, they didn't get RP right away, so if the entire unit died to shooting or got swept in CC, they never got to make the roll.

The new iteration is significantly more powerful.

I've seen decurion 7crons fight evenly with eldar, tau, codex:flyrants, and IK, both winning and losing some.

I've also seen them steamroll any and every 7e codex with barely any losses. (And the losses I've seen had some incredible dice/card stories behind them.)

So yeah, in terms of the so-far fairly well balanced 7e codices, necrons are a sudden blast of OP in the otherwise fresh air.

Maybe i's my opponent, Maybe it's crons, maybe it's something else. BUT, my Orks are squashing my brother's Cron army

I'm pretty sure after playing a few games he'll be better .But my Orks are still doing to good to be ignored

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
Maybe i's my opponent, Maybe it's crons, maybe it's something else. BUT, my Orks are squashing my brother's Cron army

I'm pretty sure after playing a few games he'll be better .But my Orks are still doing to good to be ignored

Orks have always been a tough matchup for Crons. Too many bodies for them to clear. And unless your brother starts spamming gauntlets of fire on Olords and Lords and particle beamers on Blades he is going to have a tough time.

col_impact wrote:

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
Maybe i's my opponent, Maybe it's crons, maybe it's something else. BUT, my Orks are squashing my brother's Cron army

I'm pretty sure after playing a few games he'll be better .But my Orks are still doing to good to be ignored

Orks have always been a tough matchup for Crons. Too many bodies for them to clear. And unless your brother starts spamming gauntlets of fire on Olords and Lords and particle beamers on Blades he is going to have a tough time.

Eh, I've said before, Necrons have access to tons of blasts. Monoliths, Doomsday Arks, Doom Scythes, ext. I've never had a problem with Orks.

Necrons struggle against good armor save armies like Deathwing or Grey Knights

 Sir Arun wrote:
Necrons struggle against good armor save armies like Deathwing or Grey Knights

This is true. However, our heavy support options being good, and other options being viable as well (Nightbringer, Praetorians, ext), makes those armies not as much of a threat as they were.

 krodarklorr wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
Maybe i's my opponent, Maybe it's crons, maybe it's something else. BUT, my Orks are squashing my brother's Cron army

I'm pretty sure after playing a few games he'll be better .But my Orks are still doing to good to be ignored

Orks have always been a tough matchup for Crons. Too many bodies for them to clear. And unless your brother starts spamming gauntlets of fire on Olords and Lords and particle beamers on Blades he is going to have a tough time.

Eh, I've said before, Necrons have access to tons of blasts. Monoliths, Doomsday Arks, Doom Scythes, ext. I've never had a problem with Orks.

I beat Orks too. But its easy to build a Cron army that will die to Orks, so its something to shore up.

 Sir Arun wrote:
Necrons struggle against good armor save armies like Deathwing or Grey Knights

Only if they're trying to shoot them to death with just gauss flayers. They have plenty of their own very capable CC units with which to engage such foes, as well as access to things like S10 AP2 blast weapons and the like. They just don't have high RoF AP2.