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Who would win in a war involving all the units in the Imperial Guard that you would see on a battlefield (codex, baneblades and forge world, no exterminatus, titans or space marine chapters) we've covered The Imperium of man, but what about a ground war between their core armies?

Obviously the Imperium of man would still have their heavy artillery, from basilisks to deathstrike missiles and praetor missile launchers.

reapers would have everything from cannibals and Husks to Brutes, those big scary flying things that explode when you shoot them too much, to their mainline ships. Also considering that before then the reapers had detroyed all civilisations pereodically every 50,000 years and that their zombie methods are a bit like chaos taint (though less efficient or sophisticated.)

Would the reapers have a chance or is the 40k universe indeed the most OP universe in existence?

One guy in carapace armor took out how many Reapers by himself?

 MLaw wrote:
One guy in carapace armor took out how many Reapers by himself?

None. He always had help from a ton of allies. The one time he went head to head with one he had the firepower of the Migrant Fleet to take it out.

The Imperial Guard are going to get stomped. Spaceship mounted guns in Mass Effect are deadly things with the power of nuclear arms. All the Reapers have to do is blow the gak out of the planet the Imperial Guard is on.

Arguably, Shepard is wearing power armour though.

The Guard aren't the ones fighting the Reapers, the Navy is. I don't know if there are a lot of canon figures floating around but (depending on how you go about it) the combined fleets of the major powers in Mass Effect fight a pretty close war against the Reapers, if the Reapers showed up in the 40k galaxy they'd run smack into a galactic-scale fleet for whom the largest dreadnaughts in Mass Effect would be classes as frigates. If I'm looking for any fictional universe that's got individual starships that could go toe-to-toe with a Reaper and win 40k is pretty high up on that list.

In short: The Reapers show up somewhere in Segmentum Tempestus (guessing, the 40k and ME galaxy maps don't quite line up), the Imperial Navy admirals either fall over laughing or respond with such over-the-top seriousness as to be hilarious to the Reapers' deep-voiced intro, and then the most one-sided space battle since A New Hope ends with space full of melted dead Reapers that become yet another creepy space hulk (but one that does the postmortem indoctrination thing from the ME2 level because that would be incredibly in-flavour for the setting).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(If you see a Battlefleet Gothic conversion of Mass Effect somewhere blame Hellrath for putting the idea in my head)

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Arguably, Shepard is wearing power armour though.

When you count in kinetic shields/biotic barriers/tech armour?

Yes.

I was just thinkign of things like the Ariake visor or the Kahe power cells that boost the wearer's physical capabilities or act as autosenses.

Nids are a much more deadly enemy than the Reapers. IG can stand toe to toe with them pretty well.

And like Rake said, the Navy would decimate everything they come into contact with.

40k is so hyperbolic and extreme compared to any other fiction. It's hard to compare anything without very specific caveats.

am I the only one who thought "reapers would just indoctrinate em all"?

BrianDavion wrote:
am I the only one who thought "reapers would just indoctrinate em all"?

Hard to indoctrinate when you're a smoking pile of molten metal because their ships blasted you up from hundreds of thousands of kilometers away. (Indoctrination requires prolonged close contact, it's not an instantaneous mind-control trick, and even if it was how do you suppose it'd interact with psykers?)

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The Guard aren't the ones fighting the Reapers, the Navy is. I don't know if there are a lot of canon figures floating around but (depending on how you go about it) the combined fleets of the major powers in Mass Effect fight a pretty close war against the Reapers, if the Reapers showed up in the 40k galaxy they'd run smack into a galactic-scale fleet for whom the largest dreadnaughts in Mass Effect would be classes as frigates. If I'm looking for any fictional universe that's got individual starships that could go toe-to-toe with a Reaper and win 40k is pretty high up on that list.

In short: The Reapers show up somewhere in Segmentum Tempestus (guessing, the 40k and ME galaxy maps don't quite line up), the Imperial Navy admirals either fall over laughing or respond with such over-the-top seriousness as to be hilarious to the Reapers' deep-voiced intro, and then the most one-sided space battle since A New Hope ends with space full of melted dead Reapers that become yet another creepy space hulk (but one that does the postmortem indoctrination thing from the ME2 level because that would be incredibly in-flavour for the setting).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(If you see a Battlefleet Gothic conversion of Mass Effect somewhere blame Hellrath for putting the idea in my head)

Lol! Yep. The size of the ships in 40k, particularly the IoM, is ridiculous - compared to most (perhaps any) sci fi genre I'm familiar with. And, there are fleets of these things.

The amount of firepower, not even considering the world ending ordinance [cyclonic missles, life eater virus, nuclear ordnance] is over the top. I don't see the Reapers being near as big of a threat as the Necrons or Chaos. From a ground warfare stand point the imperial guard may not have the snappy carapace armour of Mass effect, but they got numbers.... lots and lots of numbers.

I just don't see the Reapers in Mass effect matter much as a threat. It's not even close in scale and depth that 40k brings related to warfare.

I have to say this is a mute point sort of question. A lot of the fluff for 40k is ironed out but there's massive gaps in the Reaper's fluff/backstory/ect. Hell, the IG has been around since '89 while the Reapers have only been around since '07 and only in three games.

kveldulf wrote:

Lol! Yep. The size of the ships in 40k, particularly the IoM, is ridiculous - compared to most (perhaps any) sci fi genre I'm familiar with. And, there are fleets of these things.

This kinda puts all the Sci Fi Universes in perspective, at least ship wise. Fleet size ofc is another matter.
Mass effect ships are top right. 40k ships are middle left.

http://www.chartgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/size_comparison___science_fiction_spaceships_by_dirkloechel-d6lfgdf1.jpg

Heh, they need to add the Speranza to that thing... and the Deepwater. Pretty sure that thing was huge. Am I the only one who remembers Deepwater Black?

 Otto Weston wrote:

kveldulf wrote:

Lol! Yep. The size of the ships in 40k, particularly the IoM, is ridiculous - compared to most (perhaps any) sci fi genre I'm familiar with. And, there are fleets of these things.

This kinda puts all the Sci Fi Universes in perspective, at least ship wise. Fleet size ofc is another matter.
Mass effect ships are top right. 40k ships are middle left.

http://www.chartgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/size_comparison___science_fiction_spaceships_by_dirkloechel-d6lfgdf1.jpg

The sizes of the Turian vessels are way off, and we only ever actually saw Turian cruisers(around 750 meters IIRC) and frigates(200-250) in-game, so the dreadnought and carrier designs in that chart are fan made. Also the large Reaper is mis-labelled as a Destroyer when it is actually a Sovereign-class Reaper, which is only around 2 kilometers in length not 5. The "Asari Dreadnought" is actually the Destiny Ascension which is 3 kilometers in length not 1.5. The SA Dreadnought is actually a cruiser and is 800 meters in length and the SA Carrier is a Dreadnought and should be 1.2 kilometers in length. There is so many things wrong in the Mass Effect portion of that chart

But yes anything in the Mass Effect universe would be crushed by the Imperial Navy's teraton level weaponry.

I don't know if the Reapers would lose as quickly as some seem to think. Admittedly, without mass relays, they would not be able to move across the galaxy very quickly, but at combat ranges they could easily outmaneuver Imperial vessels with their mass effect drives. The mass effect drives are rather reminiscent of the Necron's inertialess drives, and we know how well the Imperial Navy was able to defend themselves against that in the Fall of Orpheus (very badly). Besides, getting the Imperium to coordibate and bring massive forces against anything can take years.

And, really, all it would take is for the Reapers to capture a couple of even the smaller Imperial ships to learn all they could want about Imperial technology.

To me, the really interesting match up would be Reapers vs. the Necrons. What would happen if the Reapers were to assimilate Necron technology?

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I don't know if the Reapers would lose as quickly as some seem to think. Admittedly, without mass relays, they would not be able to move across the galaxy very quickly, but at combat ranges they could easily outmaneuver Imperial vessels with their mass effect drives. The mass effect drives are rather reminiscent of the Necron's inertialess drives, and we know how well the Imperial Navy was able to defend themselves against that in the Fall of Orpheus (very badly). Besides, getting the Imperium to coordibate and bring massive forces against anything can take years.

And, really, all it would take is for the Reapers to capture a couple of even the smaller Imperial ships to learn all they could want about Imperial technology.

To me, the really interesting match up would be Reapers vs. the Necrons. What would happen if the Reapers were to assimilate Necron technology?

Reaper FTL speeds is around 30 lightyears per day, plus they have to cool down their drives by dumping them in a gas giant. Warp travel varies a lot but according to White Dwarf 139/140 the average distance for 1-4 days worth of travel is 1000 lightyears. I don't know what Reaper and Imperial sub-light drives can do, both are pretty damn fast I would guess. Reaper tech has also been stagnant for millions of years, mostly cause they force younger races to use mass effect tech, whether or not their arrogance would get in the way of them assimilating alien tech I don't know. But even if is a couple of thousand Reapers showed up I don't the Imperium could care when a single Lance could one shot the largest reapers.

Honestly the Necrons ROFLstomp any other sci-fi race except Forerunners in their prime, Reaper would be be like insects to them.

... and if a Reaper vessel is technologically on par with a Necron vessel, then the Imperial Navy doesn't have a fething snowball's chance in Hell.

In some ways, Reapers are better (kinetic shields, indoctrination). In other ways, Necrons have the advantage (firepower, maneuverability, speed, self-repair).

The key is the difference in scale. The Mass Effect Council Races are only a handful with a few major planets and lots of colonies. The Imperium is literally millions of planets, including thousands of hive worlds. The manpower between the two aren't even comparable. The scale of threats faced by the Imperium are massive compared to those of the Citadel races, and the Citadel races conquered the reapers in a matter of months. The reapers would barely register on a list of Imperium enemies.

BrianDavion wrote:
am I the only one who thought "reapers would just indoctrinate em all"?

Id actually be willing to bet that the Imperium of Man has a good shot against reapers not just because of how overtop 40k is but also because of the vigilance of the Inquisition that has already been set up to combat heresy. I feel that the Inquisition would be pretty good at sniffing the indoctrinated out.

 Psienesis wrote:
... and if a Reaper vessel is technologically on par with a Necron vessel, then the Imperial Navy doesn't have a fething snowball's chance in Hell.

The most powerful weapons the Reapers have are measured in kilotons while Imperial Navy weapon batteries are in the teraton levels. Reapers are quite primitive in comparison. The fact that their kinetic barriers can't defend against laser weapons negates their biggest advantage. Their armour is terrible and is nothing compared to the Imp Navy. Also in ME 1's ending after Sovereign loses his barriers, the Normandy (a 200 metre frigate) fires a Disruptor torpedo which literally shatters Sovereign.

The Normandy's torpedos were far from the only damage Sovereign took, lol.

Mudhen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
am I the only one who thought "reapers would just indoctrinate em all"?

Id actually be willing to bet that the Imperium of Man has a good shot against reapers not just because of how overtop 40k is but also because of the vigilance of the Inquisition that has already been set up to combat heresy. I feel that the Inquisition would be pretty good at sniffing the indoctrinated out.

Yea indoctrination isn't that different from Chaos corruption. Reapers would be standard fare for the IoM.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The Normandy's torpedos were far from the only damage Sovereign took, lol.

Sovereign class reapers can take on 4 Dreadnoughts at full barriers before going down (average ME dreadnought firepower is three times the power of the bomb dropped on Hiroshima) so therefore the damage it can take is as follows:


Lowest possible end:
84.78 kilotons of damage every two seconds for a significant amount of time.

Low end:
114 kilotons of damage every two seconds for a significant amount of time.

Mid end:
165.9 kilotons of damage every two seconds for a significant amount of time.

High End :
279.96 Kilotons of damage every two seconds for a significant amount of time.

4 dreadnaughts can kill a Reaper, but they won't be doing so instantly.



Here is the calcs for a Macrocannon, most Imperial vessels can have scores of these things in "Weapon Batteries":

So, since a torpedo travels around 56km/s, our macro cannon shell will travel 5600km/s, or to be exact, 5,600,000m/s.

A million kilograms traveling at 5,600,000m/s , using the infamous ½mv^2, has around 1.568e+19 Joules of energy.

That, in the TNT equivalent scale, is 3.7 gigatons of energy, an averaged, slightly conservative figure.

So that's is a single macro cannon firing....

As quoted above, a macro battery can have around 12 individual macro cannons, so a single macro battery will have around 44 gigatons of kinetic energy per salvo.

That, arranged in a broadside(which apparently has 6 macro batteries, looking at the supplementary equipment chart), will have 266.4 gigatons per salvo.

It is also worth mentioning that most cruisers has 2 weapon component slots for the port and starboard slot via game mechanics. If this has any relations to the fluff, it means that a single Macro cannon broadside from a Lunar class cruiser will have around 533 gigatons of kinetic energy coming your way. That is on the assumption all the shells hit. It should also be noted that the accuracy of the macro cannon seems to be poor, so not all of that energy will be delivered to the target.

Now for the maximum calcs, if we take the 'hit almost instantly' quote, we can also assume that macro cannon shells travel at a significant fraction of c. If we were to assume a macro cannon shell travels at 0.5c, using the atomic rockets page's relativistic kinetic energy equation, we get around 1.3923048454132637611646780490352e+22 joules.

Round that up to 2 significant figure we have 1.4e+22 Joules of kinetic energy. In TNT equivalent that is 3,346,080,305,927 or 3.3 teratons of kinetic energy. Per one shell.

Repeat the process for getting the broadside above and we get maximum 475.2 teratons per salvo from the broadside of a Lunar-class Cruiser.




I ripped these calculations straight from Space battles, all credit goes to the posters on that forum:

http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/my-attempt-at-mass-effect-calcs.315746/

http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/40k-biggaton-macrocannon-calcs.234517/




A standard Imperial Navy fleet could wipe out every Reaper in existence with this kind of firepower, as long as they all hit of course. The Reapers will never be able to go toe to toe with the Imperial navy. Ever. Against Necrons, well, that would be like calling in an artillery strike to wipe out an ant hill.

BrianDavion wrote:
am I the only one who thought "reapers would just indoctrinate em all"?

Hard to indoctrinate soldiers already indoctrinated by believing the Imperial Cult