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Hello, I'm fairly new to 40k, still don't even have my first army fully painted yet (Necrons -- getting tired of all the silvers, blacks and greens nonstop) so I'm looking for something new to put together and paint when I just can't handle painting any more Necrons (I don't know why I got so many of them, lol)

Since my Necron force is more inclined to be an infantry heavy build with the new codex, I am interested in something more vehicle heavy. I'd like to start a second army that would have a far less model count.
I really like the idea of having some tanks so I've been looking at Imperial Guard, CSM and maybe Eldar to fit that role. I'd like a good borderline between fun and competitive. I haven't played in any tournaments yet, but I would like to have a good chance at winning casual games.

Now to the questions:

Eldar have cool looking vehicles, but is the Fire Prism greatly outshined by the Wave Serpent?

I really like the CSM Land Raider and Predator, as well as their other AV units, but I'm unsure of the "competitiveness" of a vehicle focused CSM build (would rather not run bikers either)

AM/IG seems to have the most promise. I've been skimming my friend's codex and I like the idea of the Pask formation and having some Scions in reserve to take out the biggest threats to the tankss. Are the super-heavy tanks fieldable outside of Apoc games?


Okay, so maybe those aren't all questions, but I would welcome some advice on what to do. I'll start with just one model to toy with while I finish my Necrons and help my girlfriend with some of her Dark Eldar.

What do you think MEQ means? MEQ is Marine Equivalent. Meaning T4 models with a 3+ Save or equivalent. Eldar aren't MEQ outside of Wraiths. IG aren't MEQ because they're GEQ (Guardsman Equivalent).

Eldar aren't MEQ inside Wraiths either.

For an armour-heavy force Marines, CSM, Guard, and Eldar are probably best at it; Guard and Eldar are a lot more functional without Forge World models.

Sisters of Battle /Adepta Sororitas

They can have lots of small and pretty deadily units in Immolators - especially Dominions - 4 melta guns in a 5 woman squad can be fun. Add in some Exorcist tanks and a few rhinos - ALL with a 6++ save

Sadly the actual Sisters are quite expensive but they can be fun, unusual and effecive

Sisters also have the advantage of being Imperial so you can bring Dark Angel allies for a powerfield and a relic Predator or a Sicaran or some such with them.

CSM aren't very well known for vehicles aside from their flier. Their armor is basically a watered-down version of Space Marine armor.

Building an army of Wave Serpents earn you the title of "That Guy" so good luck finding willing opponents after a few games.

Imperial Guard have the most versatile armor. I'm looking to build a Mech Guard force soon, possibly with Sisters Allies.

The only issue with Sisters is metal infantry models (expensive) and lack of an actual book codex. They have some neat armor units. Perhaps allied IG/SoB might be a good idea.

Fixed the main post, sorry. I was thinking MEQ meant mechanical, surprised you guys.

Are Fire Prisms any good?

Well vehicle-centric:


Space Marine Siege Assault Vanguard: Dreadnoughts can be taken as a Troops choice.

Astra-Militarum Armored Company: Extremely vehicle heavy. In fact tanks can be taken as a Troops choice.

Ork Dredmob: Everything in every part of the FOC can be a vehicle.

Not technically vehicles, but Tau (particularly Farsight Enclaves) use battlesuits in their armies. You might consider them if you want lower model count (Kroot squads notwithstanding). They also have some very cool actual vehicles and are one of the stronger armies right now.

Blood Angels have access to Fast Razorback spam. Two Techmarines, two minimum Tactical squads in Razorbacks and two Fast Attack choices net you six Heavy Support slots and a spare ten (I think) Fast Attack. That's using two Flesh Tearers Detachments. Most if not all of the vehicles can be upgraded to Fast and throw in some Forge World goodies and you have plenty of choices for vehicle spam.

As to the OP's actual questions:

The Fire Prism is built to fight different targets. It's less useful against most infantry/light vehicles than the Wave Serpent but against big/heavy infantry and heavy vehicles it's a better tool. It's also a bit less expensive since you don't need sixty Dire Avengers to bring one.

CSM are straight-up bottom tier and a vehicle-focused army isn't particularly optimal. They can be played fine if you bring Imperial Armour 13 and some of the relic tanks and daemon engines contained within.

Super-heavies are legal outside of Apoc as a Lord of War (one per CAD) but not every play group likes playing with them, I'd advise checking in advance before you go buy one. Baneblade-chassis tanks need support to keep folks from getting around the back but they work fine.

To answer your original question about fire prism vs wave serpent, the reason wave serpents are "so good" is because they are a dedicated transport, so for every troop unit, you can have a 60" range shooter with excellent survivability (and it can move your troops) for a measly 115 points.

The fire prism is great at 125 points, but it's heavy support, and in a CAD, you need to choose: do you REALLY want a fire prism in one of the precious 3 slots, or maybe a wraithknight?

Basically, there is no reason to not take two wave serpents (since you must take 2 troops), and many reasons to take more, whereas the fire prism is a tradeoff scenario. If you ever need that HS slot, the first thing that will go will be the fire prism, because the wave serpent can be had without taking up the slot.

IG. (AM.)

Armored core army that has extremely good vehicles and vehicle friendly rules.

Vehicle-centric - tanks or walkers? Cause noone does walker wall like orkses. Also, csm helbrute formations could work fine with proper psychic support.

If you want something competitive, then atleast don't use CSM to make a mechanized army. You will most likely have a hard time. I'd say Astra Militarum with allies.

A friend of mine often runs quite a lot of Chimeras filled with melta veterans, a few Vendettas, one or two Leman Russ and an Imperial Knight. It's a relatively mobile army that can deal with most threats, and as is the trend these days, score objectives all around the table.

Pask is apparently also nice when you -really- put the tankfactor up a notch. 4 Punishers is something that surprises quite a lot of opponents, and they can deal with a variety of threats aswell. My mate says few tanks in a squadron is bad, I can't say why as I don't have his ~10 year experience playing AM. Maybe they die too fast for the point investment or something compared to double the amount. *shrug*

You want vehicles you say?

Look no further than the Imperial Guard.

Another vote for Imperial Guard.

For a starter army around 700-800pts you could run a mechanised list similar to the following:

- HQ Tank Commander - 2 x Leman Russ squadron. Fire support.
- 2 x Veteran Squads in Chimeras, to cap objectives. Give them plasma/melta/missiles/whatever to suit
- 1 x Wyvern for anti-infantry or Hydra for anti-flyer

That's a relatively cost effective (in terms of money) list, and it's proven to be quite fun. You can scale up from there by just adding more of the same, including a Vendetta / Valkyrie flyer, etc.

Vehicle centric?
Blood angels
Land raiders can be taken as dedicated transports

Astra Millitarium tanks w/ Imperial Knight ally sounds perfect.

Thanks for the replies! One more question. I know the Militarum Tempestus codex is a supplement/stand alone, but I see the Scions and Taurox Prime in the AM codex. Is there a difference between them in the different codices? They're probably my favorite looking infantry unit and I'm not sure if I also need to grab the MT codex or not. I'm guessing you need to run them as a separate/allied detachment to use the different codex?

jSewell wrote:
Thanks for the replies! One more question. I know the Militarum Tempestus codex is a supplement/stand alone, but I see the Scions and Taurox Prime in the AM coded. Is there a difference between them in the different codexes? They're probably my favorite lookin infsntry Unit and I'm not sure if I also need to grab the MT codex or not. I'm guessing you need to run them as an separate/allied detachment to use the different codex?

Unfortunately it is against forum rules to give away rules from Codices, though I can tell you that yes, if you want to run two different codices you will have to have two CADs or One CAD and one Allied Detachment etc.

To be honest, practically every army can be build as an armour heavy force.

The only exception to this is tyranids.

Now vehicles are scoring they are viable in most cases.

I am interested in something more vehicle heavy. I'd like to start a second army that would have a far less model count.

The most obvious answer to this is imperial knights. Very small model count, and only vehicles.

Dark Eldar are seemingly natural at mechanized lists, ts their thing! But other armies do it better :(

It's between AM and CSM, between painting Necron and Dark Eldar, I'd rather have something more rugged and less round. I like the idea of HelBrutes, Predators, Land Raiders, Defilers and the Fiends, but it seems I'd need todip more into FW models and our local group only allows one FW model per list.

AM seems more competitive and well rounded in the armor field, so I may go with them + an ally, even though I don't like the idea of playing Imperium I suppose I could make a make a custom background for the army in that they don't follow the Imperium but fight for the survival of mankind perhaps.

NauticalKendall wrote:
Dark Eldar are seemingly natural at mechanized lists, ts their thing! But other armies do it better :(

They do mechanized well, its just a Mechanized army made of cardboard.

This is all you need to know.

Also, how does 10 Leman Russes sound at 2000 points with the Armoured Battlegroup army?

No one can tank like the Imperial Guard, and they don't annoy people to anywhere near the same degree as Eldar Serpentspam.

defiantly go with vehicles. you don't even need to do the armored company list.

a Tank Commander,

2 bare bones vetern Squads with Chimeras

and then load up with russes and hellhounds.



then slide a Baneblade in there.

jSewell wrote:
Hello, I'm fairly new to 40k, still don't even have my first army fully painted yet (Necrons -- getting tired of all the silvers, blacks and greens nonstop) so I'm looking for something new to put together and paint when I just can't handle painting any more Necrons (I don't know why I got so many of them, lol)

Since my Necron force is more inclined to be an infantry heavy build with the new codex, I am interested in something more vehicle heavy. I'd like to start a second army that would have a far less model count.
I really like the idea of having some tanks so I've been looking at Imperial Guard, CSM and maybe Eldar to fit that role. I'd like a good borderline between fun and competitive. I haven't played in any tournaments yet, but I would like to have a good chance at winning casual games.

Now to the questions:

Eldar have cool looking vehicles, but is the Fire Prism greatly outshined by the Wave Serpent?

I really like the CSM Land Raider and Predator, as well as their other AV units, but I'm unsure of the "competitiveness" of a vehicle focused CSM build (would rather not run bikers either)

AM/IG seems to have the most promise. I've been skimming my friend's codex and I like the idea of the Pask formation and having some Scions in reserve to take out the biggest threats to the tankss. Are the super-heavy tanks fieldable outside of Apoc games?


Okay, so maybe those aren't all questions, but I would welcome some advice on what to do. I'll start with just one model to toy with while I finish my Necrons and help my girlfriend with some of her Dark Eldar.

If you want a non-necron, vehicle centric build, here's my thoughts.

In the current edition, Skimmers are generally clearly superior to non-skimmers, the on-demand Jink for a 4+ or often 3+ in the open allows for survivability that non-skimmer vehicles cannot match, and many Skimmer armies have lots of Twin-linked weapons as well to boot, mitigating the downside of jinking. The changeover to HP's instead of the Vehicle Damage Table really favors those vehicles that are able to simply discount hits over AV value anyway.

As for the Fire Prism vs Wave Serpent, a Fire Prism will generally be better at engaging *heavy* armor (e.g. AV13/14), and heavy infantry in the open or lacking invul saves. Against light and medium vehicles & infantry, as well as heavy infantry in decent cover or with strong invul saves, yes the Wave Serpent will typically outshine the Fire Prism, especially as the Fire Prism can't use it's blast modes if it has to Jink.

If you want to go with IG, keep in mind the above about the skimmer vs non-skimmer gap, you will feel it, and you will lose vehicles very quickly. That said, no other army can put tanks on the table the way IG can, and if you routinely want 12-18 tanks on a table, IG will do it.

CSM's don't really function terribly well as a vehicle heavy force, and function rather awkwardly as a whole at the moment.

With a BA flesh Tearers detachment, you can take furioso librarian dreadnoughts as hq's, Cassor the damned (named DC dread) as the one troop choice, and a pod for Cassor as the fast attack, leaving the rest of the list for all vehicles. You can have 0 models with a leadership or toughness score.

Elysian Drop Troops. You can take squadrons of flyers for FA and HS, and Dedicated flyers for each squad of guys.

Que 'Flight of the Valkyries'.