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Just wondering about what the Emperor knew about Omegon (if he knew anything) and how it all comes together. Please elaborate on your thoughts.

My opinion (for what it's worth) is that he was not intentionally created, he was scattered and the Emperor didn't know about them. Think about it, why would the Emperor create a split Primarch? Why didn't he inform loyalists with the valuable piece of information about the Alpha Legion that is their greatest secret? You know "They have two Primarchs" or "If there is an Alpha, there must be an Omega" or "Why do you think their symbol is a Hydra?" etc.

I chose that the emporer knew about him (looked in the tank and saw two), though did not intentionally create him (why would he split one Primarch on purpose?), and he was scattered (The emporer would have made him a general otherwise).

natpri771 wrote:
Just wondering about what the Emperor knew about Omegon (if he knew anything) and how it all comes together. Please elaborate on your thoughts.

I choose Emperor didn't know about him and he was scatted. Some how Emperor didn’t know of his creation … maybe Chaos cultist or Chaos gods abducted it from the beginning… who knows.

 david choe wrote:

natpri771 wrote:
Just wondering about what the Emperor knew about Omegon (if he knew anything) and how it all comes together. Please elaborate on your thoughts.

I choose Emperor didn't know about him and he was scatted. Some how Emperor didn’t know of his creation … maybe Chaos cultist or Chaos gods abducted it from the beginning… who knows.

There is a part in the Horus Heresy trilogy where a second presense is felt inside the 20th legions tank. personally I think we can deduce from this, that the Emporer would have known about there being two Primarchs. That and when Alpharius was picked up, the Emporer would probably have known instantly

I like option 7. That would be the best twist ever, that he was just a figment of Alpharius's imagination, Tyler Durden style.

I personally cant believe the Emperor didnt know about him. About 50/50 on the intent, could see it being on purpose but cant see solid motive/benefit for creating a split primarch instead of just making a 21st. Also assume he was scattered with the rest of his brothers unless....

 Rippy wrote:

 david choe wrote:

natpri771 wrote:
Just wondering about what the Emperor knew about Omegon (if he knew anything) and how it all comes together. Please elaborate on your thoughts.

I choose Emperor didn't know about him and he was scatted. Some how Emperor didn’t know of his creation … maybe Chaos cultist or Chaos gods abducted it from the beginning… who knows.

There is a part in the Horus Heresy trilogy where a second presense is felt inside the 20th legions tank. personally I think we can deduce from this, that the Emporer would have known about there being two Primarchs. That and when Alpharius was picked up, the Emporer would probably have known instantly

Well then the OP need to be more clear about the point of Emperor's thought.

I don't know ... if he knew about it, it was never stated. He might have had a hunch... he was a psychic after all and if he detected only one soul...and saw two? His intention was to make one ... so this is debatable. It could have been an illusion or something from his POV... he needed more time to figure it out... then it all disappeared.

Is the OP talking Omegon or 2nd Primarch in the tube? Meaning that E knows about the identity of O. Yes, Emperor finally knows about the existence of Omegon during the Great Crusade (I think), but why... didn't he tell the other loyalist Primach during the Horus Heresy?

 david choe wrote:

 Rippy wrote:

 david choe wrote:

natpri771 wrote:
Just wondering about what the Emperor knew about Omegon (if he knew anything) and how it all comes together. Please elaborate on your thoughts.

I choose Emperor didn't know about him and he was scatted. Some how Emperor didn’t know of his creation … maybe Chaos cultist or Chaos gods abducted it from the beginning… who knows.

There is a part in the Horus Heresy trilogy where a second presense is felt inside the 20th legions tank. personally I think we can deduce from this, that the Emporer would have known about there being two Primarchs. That and when Alpharius was picked up, the Emporer would probably have known instantly

Well then the OP need to be more clear about the point of Emperor's thought.

I don't know ... if he knew about it, it was never stated. He might have had a hunch... he was a psychic after all and if he detected only one soul...and saw two? His intention was to make one ... so this is debatable. It could have been an illusion or something from his POV... he needed more time to figure it out... then it all disappeared.

Is the OP talking Omegon or 2nd Primarch in the tube? Meaning that E knows about the identity of O. Yes, Emperor finally knows about the existence of Omegon during the Great Crusade (I think), but why... didn't he tell the other loyalist Primach during the Horus Heresy?

Because the Emperor didn't tell the loyal Primarchs anything during the Heresy. He was sorting out the mess Magnus had made. The only person he spoke to I think was Corax, and only briefly. I don't even know if Malcador spoke to him.

[

Because the Emperor didn't tell the loyal Primarchs anything during the Heresy. He was sorting out the mess Magnus had made. The only person he spoke to I think was Corax, and only briefly. I don't even know if Malcador spoke to him.

 david choe wrote:


Seriously, any topics about the Alpha legion and their Primach(s) are pointless because GW made it so mysterious that you can interpreted any way you want.

While a 'definitive' answer may now be difficult and may in fact never be given, I'd say that discussion about the Alpha Legion and there background is about as far from 'pointless' now more than ever!

I find the discussion to be entertaining and thought-provoking.

 david choe wrote:


Is the OP talking Omegon or 2nd Primarch in the tube? Meaning that E knows about the identity of O. Yes, Emperor finally knows about the existence of Omegon during the Great Crusade (I think), but why... didn't he tell the other loyalist Primach during the Horus Heresy?

Perhaps because Omegon was meant to be a double agent inside the Alpha Legion by that point, and you don't usually want people knowing who your spies are. That and during a good portion of the Heresy, they weren't sure who among the loyalists were actually loyal. Vengeful Spirit has Malcador makes a remark that 'It seems the Warriors of the Lion stand with us.' clearly they dont know where the others stand, and I believe both sides of the War were eagerly waiting for the White Scars to chose a side. So like I was saying, when you aren't sure if the Loyalists are Loyal, you don't want to give away things.

That or Omegon wasn't a spy, but the Emps hoped his sons would be smart enough to notice there are two guys that are more remarkably like Primarchs than all the Marines that are trying to imitate Primarchs. That's the one thing about the Alpha Legion at present that is odd to me, the warriors doing their whole look like Alpharius thing, when there is clearly a size difference.

Can I get a list of definitive characters that knew of Omegon and the evidence of it.

Example:
Emperor - because????
Alpharius - because???

This way we can ignore the idea of Omegon theories, such as he was Alpharius the whole time or just a “fake”…

Didn't Horus find Alpharius (& Omegon) rather than E?

beast_gts wrote:
Didn't Horus find Alpharius (& Omegon) rather than E?

We don't know. There's three origin stories for Alpharius in Extermination, and it says they're all lies. So whether one is true, they're all true, they're all lies... We don't know.

 Alpharius wrote:

 david choe wrote:


Seriously, any topics about the Alpha legion and their Primach(s) are pointless because GW made it so mysterious that you can interpreted any way you want.

While a 'definitive' answer may now be difficult and may in fact never be given, I'd say that discussion about the Alpha Legion and there background is about as far from 'pointless' now more than ever!

You mean as in very beneficial, sensible, and meaningful? This is really about subjective entertainment and thought-provoking.

 ImAGeek wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
Didn't Horus find Alpharius (& Omegon) rather than E?

We don't know. There's three origin stories for Alpharius in Extermination, and it says they're all lies. So whether one is true, they're all true, they're all lies... We don't know.

Or Horus Found him after the Emperor never released him and Omegon was always with him but they were also lost through the warp and Horus found them first while the Emperor was busy never losing them to begin with.

*small explosion*

Nailed it.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:


That or Omegon wasn't a spy, but the Emps hoped his sons would be smart enough to notice there are two guys that are more remarkably like Primarchs than all the Marines that are trying to imitate Primarchs. That's the one thing about the Alpha Legion at present that is odd to me, the warriors doing their whole look like Alpharius thing, when there is clearly a size difference

Remember that Alpha Legion also produced quite a few larger than average astartes. In Legion, Sheed Ranko is indicated to being very close to the same height as Alpharius (actually Omegon) if not the same and in The Serpent Beneath Sheed Ranko is clearly of a stature similar enough that whilst helmeted, other Legionnaires are convinced he's Omegon.

Also, Seventh Serpent seems to indicate that Alpharius is only slightly taller than the average astartes as indicated when he's imitating Meduson.

The imitation game amongst the Alpha Legion probably works best when working with or against regular humans of whom the vast majority have never seen an astartes before so wouldn't exactly know the difference between a primarch and an astartes.

And then there's elevator shoes

 david choe wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 david choe wrote:


Seriously, any topics about the Alpha legion and their Primach(s) are pointless because GW made it so mysterious that you can interpreted any way you want.

While a 'definitive' answer may now be difficult and may in fact never be given, I'd say that discussion about the Alpha Legion and there background is about as far from 'pointless' now more than ever!

You mean as in very beneficial, sensible, and meaningful? This is really about subjective entertainment and thought-provoking.

No kidding?

 Alpharius wrote:

 david choe wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 david choe wrote:


Seriously, any topics about the Alpha legion and their Primach(s) are pointless because GW made it so mysterious that you can interpreted any way you want.

While a 'definitive' answer may now be difficult and may in fact never be given, I'd say that discussion about the Alpha Legion and there background is about as far from 'pointless' now more than ever!

You mean as in very beneficial, sensible, and meaningful? This is really about subjective entertainment and thought-provoking.

No kidding?

Please continue to enjoy the beneficial and meaningful of Omegon mystery discussion.

 King Pariah wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:


That or Omegon wasn't a spy, but the Emps hoped his sons would be smart enough to notice there are two guys that are more remarkably like Primarchs than all the Marines that are trying to imitate Primarchs. That's the one thing about the Alpha Legion at present that is odd to me, the warriors doing their whole look like Alpharius thing, when there is clearly a size difference

Remember that Alpha Legion also produced quite a few larger than average astartes. In Legion, Sheed Ranko is indicated to being very close to the same height as Alpharius (actually Omegon) if not the same and in The Serpent Beneath Sheed Ranko is clearly of a stature similar enough that whilst helmeted, other Legionnaires are convinced he's Omegon.

Also, Seventh Serpent seems to indicate that Alpharius is only slightly taller than the average astartes as indicated when he's imitating Meduson.

The imitation game amongst the Alpha Legion probably works best when working with or against regular humans of whom the vast majority have never seen an astartes before so wouldn't exactly know the difference between a primarch and an astartes.

And then there's elevator shoes

Fair point.

I'd still however suspect that other Primarchs should be able to tell the difference, though that is questionable as well considering the questionable events surrounding Alpharius' death. From what I am gathering through a little digging, it seems that Omegon has been subtly working against Alpharius. I wonder if any of the other Alphas are helping with that.

Also apparently there is a theory that Omegon is Janus of the Grey Knights.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:


That or Omegon wasn't a spy, but the Emps hoped his sons would be smart enough to notice there are two guys that are more remarkably like Primarchs than all the Marines that are trying to imitate Primarchs. That's the one thing about the Alpha Legion at present that is odd to me, the warriors doing their whole look like Alpharius thing, when there is clearly a size difference

Remember that Alpha Legion also produced quite a few larger than average astartes. In Legion, Sheed Ranko is indicated to being very close to the same height as Alpharius (actually Omegon) if not the same and in The Serpent Beneath Sheed Ranko is clearly of a stature similar enough that whilst helmeted, other Legionnaires are convinced he's Omegon.

Also, Seventh Serpent seems to indicate that Alpharius is only slightly taller than the average astartes as indicated when he's imitating Meduson.

The imitation game amongst the Alpha Legion probably works best when working with or against regular humans of whom the vast majority have never seen an astartes before so wouldn't exactly know the difference between a primarch and an astartes.

And then there's elevator shoes

Fair point.

I'd still however suspect that other Primarchs should be able to tell the difference, though that is questionable as well considering the questionable events surrounding Alpharius' death. From what I am gathering through a little digging, it seems that Omegon has been subtly working against Alpharius. I wonder if any of the other Alphas are helping with that.

Also apparently there is a theory that Omegon is Janus of the Grey Knights.

I recommend Seventh Serpent

 King Pariah wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:


That or Omegon wasn't a spy, but the Emps hoped his sons would be smart enough to notice there are two guys that are more remarkably like Primarchs than all the Marines that are trying to imitate Primarchs. That's the one thing about the Alpha Legion at present that is odd to me, the warriors doing their whole look like Alpharius thing, when there is clearly a size difference

Remember that Alpha Legion also produced quite a few larger than average astartes. In Legion, Sheed Ranko is indicated to being very close to the same height as Alpharius (actually Omegon) if not the same and in The Serpent Beneath Sheed Ranko is clearly of a stature similar enough that whilst helmeted, other Legionnaires are convinced he's Omegon.

Also, Seventh Serpent seems to indicate that Alpharius is only slightly taller than the average astartes as indicated when he's imitating Meduson.

The imitation game amongst the Alpha Legion probably works best when working with or against regular humans of whom the vast majority have never seen an astartes before so wouldn't exactly know the difference between a primarch and an astartes.

And then there's elevator shoes

Fair point.

I'd still however suspect that other Primarchs should be able to tell the difference, though that is questionable as well considering the questionable events surrounding Alpharius' death. From what I am gathering through a little digging, it seems that Omegon has been subtly working against Alpharius. I wonder if any of the other Alphas are helping with that.

Also apparently there is a theory that Omegon is Janus of the Grey Knights.

I recommend Seventh Serpent

Spoiler:

There's a group of loyalist Alpha Legionnaires that Alpharius is hunting down. Some of the language seems to imply that these loyalists work under Omegon

Oh, very nice. I picked it up (along with a couple other items, like that Archaon 'Lord of Chaos' print) but I havent started it yet. Does it rely on reading some of the other HH Stories? Cause I've kinda been jumping around with them since I fell behind.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:


That or Omegon wasn't a spy, but the Emps hoped his sons would be smart enough to notice there are two guys that are more remarkably like Primarchs than all the Marines that are trying to imitate Primarchs. That's the one thing about the Alpha Legion at present that is odd to me, the warriors doing their whole look like Alpharius thing, when there is clearly a size difference

Remember that Alpha Legion also produced quite a few larger than average astartes. In Legion, Sheed Ranko is indicated to being very close to the same height as Alpharius (actually Omegon) if not the same and in The Serpent Beneath Sheed Ranko is clearly of a stature similar enough that whilst helmeted, other Legionnaires are convinced he's Omegon.

Also, Seventh Serpent seems to indicate that Alpharius is only slightly taller than the average astartes as indicated when he's imitating Meduson.

The imitation game amongst the Alpha Legion probably works best when working with or against regular humans of whom the vast majority have never seen an astartes before so wouldn't exactly know the difference between a primarch and an astartes.

And then there's elevator shoes

Fair point.

I'd still however suspect that other Primarchs should be able to tell the difference, though that is questionable as well considering the questionable events surrounding Alpharius' death. From what I am gathering through a little digging, it seems that Omegon has been subtly working against Alpharius. I wonder if any of the other Alphas are helping with that.

Also apparently there is a theory that Omegon is Janus of the Grey Knights.

I recommend Seventh Serpent

Spoiler:

There's a group of loyalist Alpha Legionnaires that Alpharius is hunting down. Some of the language seems to imply that these loyalists work under Omegon

Oh, very nice. I picked it up (along with a couple other items, like that Archaon 'Lord of Chaos' print) but I havent started it yet. Does it rely on reading some of the other HH Stories? Cause I've kinda been jumping around with them since I fell behind.

It's the sequel to Angel Exterminatus (which is also a good read) BUT, you don't really need to have read Angel Exterminatus for Seventh Serpent, aside from some further understanding and backstory of the characters that are in both.

Personally, I read Seventh Serpent before Angel Exterminatus. I didn't get lost anywhere in the story, it just drove me to finally get around to reading Angel Exterminatus

Ok cool.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 david choe wrote:


Is the OP talking Omegon or 2nd Primarch in the tube? Meaning that E knows about the identity of O. Yes, Emperor finally knows about the existence of Omegon during the Great Crusade (I think), but why... didn't he tell the other loyalist Primach during the Horus Heresy?

Perhaps because Omegon was meant to be a double agent inside the Alpha Legion by that point, and you don't usually want people knowing who your spies are. That and during a good portion of the Heresy, they weren't sure who among the loyalists were actually loyal. Vengeful Spirit has Malcador makes a remark that 'It seems the Warriors of the Lion stand with us.' clearly they dont know where the others stand, and I believe both sides of the War were eagerly waiting for the White Scars to chose a side. So like I was saying, when you aren't sure if the Loyalists are Loyal, you don't want to give away things.

That or Omegon wasn't a spy, but the Emps hoped his sons would be smart enough to notice there are two guys that are more remarkably like Primarchs than all the Marines that are trying to imitate Primarchs. That's the one thing about the Alpha Legion at present that is odd to me, the warriors doing their whole look like Alpharius thing, when there is clearly a size difference.

There is some variance in size, but aren't O and A only slightly larger than an average marine? Abaddon was huge for a marine and likely larger than both of them. I bet there were enough Alpha legion marines roughly their size to get the job done.

After all, we see Arnold Schwarzenegger in dozens of movies and thousands of photos, yet there is active and lively debate over whether he is 5'10" and 6'2". If one of the biggest celebrities of the last thirty years is of generally unknown height, how would people know exactly how tall legendarily secretive primarchs are?

 PhillyT wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 david choe wrote:


Is the OP talking Omegon or 2nd Primarch in the tube? Meaning that E knows about the identity of O. Yes, Emperor finally knows about the existence of Omegon during the Great Crusade (I think), but why... didn't he tell the other loyalist Primach during the Horus Heresy?

Perhaps because Omegon was meant to be a double agent inside the Alpha Legion by that point, and you don't usually want people knowing who your spies are. That and during a good portion of the Heresy, they weren't sure who among the loyalists were actually loyal. Vengeful Spirit has Malcador makes a remark that 'It seems the Warriors of the Lion stand with us.' clearly they dont know where the others stand, and I believe both sides of the War were eagerly waiting for the White Scars to chose a side. So like I was saying, when you aren't sure if the Loyalists are Loyal, you don't want to give away things.

That or Omegon wasn't a spy, but the Emps hoped his sons would be smart enough to notice there are two guys that are more remarkably like Primarchs than all the Marines that are trying to imitate Primarchs. That's the one thing about the Alpha Legion at present that is odd to me, the warriors doing their whole look like Alpharius thing, when there is clearly a size difference.

There is some variance in size, but aren't O and A only slightly larger than an average marine? Abaddon was huge for a marine and likely larger than both of them. I bet there were enough Alpha legion marines roughly their size to get the job done.

After all, we see Arnold Schwarzenegger in dozens of movies and thousands of photos, yet there is active and lively debate over whether he is 5'10" and 6'2". If one of the biggest celebrities of the last thirty years is of generally unknown height, how would people know exactly how tall legendarily secretive primarchs are?

Because the Warmaster (at least when/if he meet Alphy first) and other Primarchs had met Alpharius, or Omegon at some point.

My thoughts have always been simple on this;
Alpharius split into twins while being made, something the emperor hadn't expected and didn't have time to figure out before the primarchs were scattered. A and O were together from the start, having been in the same pod the whole time, and were together after they were found/put in charge of the legion.

All the other details along the way I keep to speculation

 david choe wrote:

Please continue to enjoy the beneficial and meaningful of Omegon mystery discussion.

I will?

And since you've made your 'point', please don't continue to spam it in this thread.

 Flame-Rage wrote:
My thoughts have always been simple on this;
Alpharius split into twins while being made, something the emperor hadn't expected and didn't have time to figure out before the primarchs were scattered. A and O were together from the start, having been in the same pod the whole time, and were together after they were found/put in charge of the legion.

All the other details along the way I keep to speculation

That's what I think too. I don't think the Emperor could've not known, as there's a couple of mentions in the books (I think, one definitely) of one of the pods having 2 beings in it. But I don't think he planned for two.