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Made in gb
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms







 kodos wrote:
GW just goes heavy into the marketing of AoS this time
the best Edition ever (not that hard) with lots of people getting it early enough to make reviews and play games (not the usual "you get the box 1 day before release")

they are really pushing it, something that is kind of new for GW, so I just hope they have enough copies on stock, because the bigger the hype, the bigger the rage if it gone too soon

 Crimson wrote:
The stuff that is generally used for acrylic paintings is of far lower quality.

GW paints are average quality among artist quality acrylic paints

yet one problem with them is that a GW Blue + GW Yellow does not make a GW Green and there is no hint which pigments were used to make that colour (which is standard for high quality paints)


I think the hype is strong with this release but not sure if it will be more than indomitus and space marines kind of hype.
Have they ever made a painting tuts Before preorders? IIRC thats new.
I think you tubers and stores etc should have the goods weeks ahead so they can review and paint nice examples (even if they only can reveal closer to the date. That would be better than just unboxings.

I find GW paints medium range and some pots are great while others not so much, same with my main collection of Vallejos... I mix them all though to try to find new combos etc Some fail others shine and I get nice colours.
Thing is for me its healthy to experiment specially if you wish to do so but its equally fine just to pick a pot and paint. Either way its enjoyment in a bottle.
GW just taps into a small fraction of what they could teach people though.


   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







Jesus are people really crying about influencers again? How petty do you have to be to think that someone getting something for free is taking anything away from you.

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Norfolk, NE

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Jesus are people really crying about influencers again? How petty do you have to be to think that someone getting something for free is taking anything away from you.


Just keep posting this please.



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Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






yukishiro1 wrote:

No, it just depends on the particular paint; some GW paints can be mixed with some others, and some can't, it all depends on the mix of pigments in each paint. Which you have no way of knowing from just looking at the label, since GW doesn't give you the info that would tell you whether it will be possible to mix it with another given color or not.

That's utter nonsense. Mixing paints is not chemistry, you can mix all acrylic paints with each other just fine. This is getting really bizarre.

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Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Jesus are people really crying about influencers again? How petty do you have to be to think that someone getting something for free is taking anything away from you.


Except influencers getting something for free is literally taking away from others, since GW underproduces the bloody things by literal thousands.

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

 Crimson wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:

No, it just depends on the particular paint; some GW paints can be mixed with some others, and some can't, it all depends on the mix of pigments in each paint. Which you have no way of knowing from just looking at the label, since GW doesn't give you the info that would tell you whether it will be possible to mix it with another given color or not.

That's utter nonsense. Mixing paints is not chemistry, you can mix all acrylic paints with each other just fine. This is getting really bizarre.

mixing paints is not, but mixing different acrylics is and yes there are a lot of different ones out there and not all of them like each other (in a chemical way), as well as not all pigments like each other

but usually the normal hobbyist buying colours from the same type and brand doesn't encounter this

 NAVARRO wrote:

I think the hype is strong with this release but not sure if it will be more than indomitus and space marines kind of hype.
Have they ever made a painting tuts Before preorders? IIRC thats new.
I think you tubers and stores etc should have the goods weeks ahead so they can review and paint nice examples (even if they only can reveal closer to the date. That would be better than just unboxings.

having something that does not come directly from GW before pre-orders is new, as far as I recall reviews/tuts/etc are either from GW or after pre-orders

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Xalapa, Veracruz, Mexico

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Jesus are people really crying about influencers again? How petty do you have to be to think that someone getting something for free is taking anything away from you.


Everyone is petty here on the rest of the world wilderness. We know they are taking chances from us, specially when we don't have the resources to get products like you do in first world where your main problems are far pettier than ours.
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Jesus are people really crying about influencers again? How petty do you have to be to think that someone getting something for free is taking anything away from you.


Except influencers getting something for free is literally taking away from others, since GW underproduces the bloody things by literal thousands.


I don't think the two are as connected as you think. You're assuming that they don't have allocations for sales and allocations for marketing worked out ahead of time but it's more likely that if they axed their marketing programs they'd just make that many fewer boxes and maintain the same level of scarcity. GW choose to be douchebags. They could make enough for everyone, they don't want to. The manner in which they withhold product isn't really relevant.

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 Crimson wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:

No, it just depends on the particular paint; some GW paints can be mixed with some others, and some can't, it all depends on the mix of pigments in each paint. Which you have no way of knowing from just looking at the label, since GW doesn't give you the info that would tell you whether it will be possible to mix it with another given color or not.

That's utter nonsense. Mixing paints is not chemistry, you can mix all acrylic paints with each other just fine. This is getting really bizarre.


If by mix you mean that you can physically mix them and you will get a paint that you can physically apply, yes, obviously you can mix acrylic paints and it's not like it'll explode or anything. We're talking about the color results you'll get, and whether it's going to come out as the color it ought to, or whether it's going to come out as an ugly brown or grey tinted vaguely with that color. That depends on what pigments make up the respective paints; when the paints are themselves already a mix of pigments, you need to consider not only the visible, final color of each paint you're mixing, but the pigment mix as well. You can't tell simply from looking at the two paints what the mixed color is going to look like.

Please don't accuse others of talking nonsense when you evidently have no idea about the topic you're opining on.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/16 20:22:24


 
   
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I'd be interested in seeing some of this mixing information that apprently everyone except GW provides.

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There are far more copies given out for store demos than for influencers I suspect.
   
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 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'd be interested in seeing some of this mixing information that apprently everyone except GW provides.


I don't think anybody said it's only GW that doesn't provide it. IIRC the only miniature paint companies that do are Kimera and Scale 75, though some of the others (Vallejo, etc) do give you more info than GW does about their paints, albeit not full pigment info for each individual paint.

For example: https://scale75.com/descargas/KS/TECHNICAL-INFO.pdf

https://www.pegasoworld.com/product/kimera-kolors-acrylic-set/ - see how each paint lists its pigment?

Anyway, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with buying 100+ different colors of miniature paint and just using them instead of mixing your own. Just that the statement that you can mix with GW colors is not really accurate. If you tried to only buy say a dozen GW colors and generate all your other colors from those 12, it would not work well, you'd end up with a lot of ugly browns and greys instead of the vibrant colors you would have thought you'd get looking at the two colors you were mixing. In general when working with premixed miniature paints, the only thing you can reliably do without fouling up the color profile is to lighten or darken a paint using pure white or black; the further you get from that, the more likely you are to end up with tinted brown or grey.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/16 20:53:27


 
   
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 lord_blackfang wrote:
Jesus are people really crying about influencers again? How petty do you have to be to think that someone getting something for free is taking anything away from you.


Umh. There will be people short of box. If those youtubers would need to buy there's chance they would fail to get and somebody who now doesn't get would get.

There will be thousands short of box as usual with discount boxes.

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So, I haven't been painting minis a bit over a decades now but I have to ask. What's with the talk about acrylic paints being so hard to mix (even across brands)? That feels really alien to me. Sometimes you get the one bad pot but that's not common, or even rare. Overall generic acrylic paints (at least all the brands for miniatures) were all intermixable as far as I know (and often with most non-miniature brands) with maybe the tiniest of consistency issues. But one gets used to that and adjusts. Cheap non-miniature brands may have some pigment size issues but that's it as far as I know of "mixing acrylic paints" problems.

Colours simply get muddy if you mix more than three of them from all over the colour wheel (subtractive colour mixing occurs when we mix paints, that's just physics) but otherwise knowing some colour theory from an "intro to colours" articles should be enough for anyone to avoid that (and to match most colours well enough if needed). Sometimes mixing paints can be a hassle (big armies or projects where one needs a lot of a specific colour) but even then one can make a test mix and then increase the ratios to pot size if one really wants an unique colour (or just buy the pot if it already exists) and then have it on standby as needed.

Mixing paints (or not) is an issue of personal preference but I have to say that mixing paints being anathema by default and being something to argue about as a fundamental issue when it comes to miniature painting feels really strange. Has something big changed since the 80s, 90s, or 00s? Has there been some change in the formula of all these paints or have manufactures somehow managed to add some sort of magic DRM to actual paints?
   
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tneva82 wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Jesus are people really crying about influencers again? How petty do you have to be to think that someone getting something for free is taking anything away from you.


Umh. There will be people short of box. If those youtubers would need to buy there's chance they would fail to get and somebody who now doesn't get would get.

There will be thousands short of box as usual with discount boxes.

That's not how fomo works. They don't make as much as they expect demand on purpose, not cause they gave it all out to a couple dozen influencers...
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






yukishiro1 wrote:

If by mix you mean that you can physically mix them and you will get a paint that you can physically apply, yes, obviously you can mix acrylic paints and it's not like it'll explode or anything. We're talking about the color results you'll get, and whether it's going to come out as the color it ought to, or whether it's going to come out as an ugly brown or grey tinted vaguely with that color. That depends on what pigments make up the respective paints; when the paints are themselves already a mix of pigments, you need to consider not only the visible, final color of each paint you're mixing, but the pigment mix as well. You can't tell simply from looking at the two paints what the mixed color is going to look like.

Please don't accuse others of talking nonsense when you evidently have no idea about the topic you're opining on.


Yes, I get that you're talking about, hues vs true colours. Pigments are just tiny coloured flakes, and most of the time it doesn't terribly much matter whether your green was made out of green flakes or mix of blue and yellow flakes. Both will produce turquoise when mixed with blue flakes. And sure for vibrant secondary and tertiary colours it is best to use pure colours, or at least something close to them (Purple in particular. Most reds and blues don't produce particularly strong and vibrant purple). But for more naturalistic shades that doesn't really matter. And GW paints behave perfectly predictably. I've been painting with them and with other colours for decades, there aren't sudden surprise greys or browns. Worrying about hues vs true colours is like elite level oil painting stuff that doesn't matter most of the time even there.


Mario wrote:
So, I haven't been painting minis a bit over a decades now but I have to ask. What's with the talk about acrylic paints being so hard to mix (even across brands)? That feels really alien to me. Sometimes you get the one bad pot but that's not common, or even rare. Overall generic acrylic paints (at least all the brands for miniatures) were all intermixable as far as I know (and often with most non-miniature brands) with maybe the tiniest of consistency issues. But one gets used to that and adjusts. Cheap non-miniature brands may have some pigment size issues but that's it as far as I know of "mixing acrylic paints" problems.

Colours simply get muddy if you mix more than three of them from all over the colour wheel (subtractive colour mixing occurs when we mix paints, that's just physics) but otherwise knowing some colour theory from an "intro to colours" articles should be enough for anyone to avoid that (and to match most colours well enough if needed). Sometimes mixing paints can be a hassle (big armies or projects where one needs a lot of a specific colour) but even then one can make a test mix and then increase the ratios to pot size if one really wants an unique colour (or just buy the pot if it already exists) and then have it on standby as needed.

Mixing paints (or not) is an issue of personal preference but I have to say that mixing paints being anathema by default and being something to argue about as a fundamental issue when it comes to miniature painting feels really strange. Has something big changed since the 80s, 90s, or 00s? Has there been some change in the formula of all these paints or have manufactures somehow managed to add some sort of magic DRM to actual paints?

You're completely correct. You can mix them just fine. This seems to be just some new angle for bizarre anti-GW conspiracies.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/16 21:32:06


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Made in nl
[MOD]
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Cozy cockpit of an Imperial Knight

Kindly take all painting discussion elsewhere.

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Atlanta, GA

They could make enough for everyone, they don't want to. The manner in which they withhold product isn't really relevant.


You have no idea how many boxes of product GW wants to or doesn't want to produce, or what kind of limits there are on their production schedule. For all we know, the number of Dominion boxes produced is tied directly to the number of hardcover core rulebooks that GW is able to receive from China in a given amount of time.

I suspect that as GW's popularity grows, it's also getting harder and harder for them to pin down any kind of reliable numbers for how many boxes they should be producing in order to meet demand. Unfortunately, it's a Catch-22. If they don't make enough, people complain and moan on the internet. If they make too many and have extras sitting out, people will say that the product didn't sell as well as GW thought it would and that it's a failure.

If nothing else I can see them doing a follow-up Made to Order just like they did with Indomitus. I didn't hear anybody complaining after that happened and everyone who wanted a copy of Indomitus was able to get one.
   
Made in ie
Faithful Squig Companion





Ireland

 Mr. Grey wrote:
They could make enough for everyone, they don't want to. The manner in which they withhold product isn't really relevant.


You have no idea how many boxes of product GW wants to or doesn't want to produce, or what kind of limits there are on their production schedule. For all we know, the number of Dominion boxes produced is tied directly to the number of hardcover core rulebooks that GW is able to receive from China in a given amount of time.

I suspect that as GW's popularity grows, it's also getting harder and harder for them to pin down any kind of reliable numbers for how many boxes they should be producing in order to meet demand. Unfortunately, it's a Catch-22. If they don't make enough, people complain and moan on the internet. If they make too many and have extras sitting out, people will say that the product didn't sell as well as GW thought it would and that it's a failure.

If nothing else I can see them doing a follow-up Made to Order just like they did with Indomitus. I didn't hear anybody complaining after that happened and everyone who wanted a copy of Indomitus was able to get one.


Other than pure greed, I dont' see why they couldn't have announced this already. Tell people that if you want it early to start playing, you need to be quick. That way they get their FOMO sales from the folk that can't stand the idea of playing anything that isn't the most up to date ruleset. Then let everyone else grab a MTO copy and wait the 3 months or so to get their copies.

Instead they know they will make more FOMO sales from those that are happy to sit in the virtual queue for an hour or those that know how to exploit the queue system easily and all the complaining online is just pushing threads/comments and creates more hype/false scarcity around the game.

My favourite part of the hobby comes in about two weeks time, when those that have tried to get one and failed or managed to order one that GW couldn't fulfil the order but don't contact you to tell you and you get a bit miffed and complain online and you get told by people spend three times the amount on the piecemeal versions/you clearly didn't want it bad enough as other people managed to spend their weekend sat in front of the store to order it, or my absolutely favourite - leave the hobby if you don't like it.

Yes, MTO might not be profitable to do for ALL releases, but something like this that is only going to push more sales (Be it models, battletomes or terrain) down the line, even if they end up with some leftovers, they could always shove them on the shelf or sends out some more influencer copies. Instead they choose to make these 'launch sets' in the way they do for the FOMO sales and the increase in online visibility with people talking about it all online for weeks prior.


Whilst I'm not bothered that they are dishing out free copies to influencers, I do get people are annoyed that they are expected to exploit the queue system to be in with a chance to even get in the store to buy one this weekend, when someone with 25 followers has gotten one. But again, good advertising for GW as people are spending more time commenting on why someone with next to no influence has gotten hold of a copy. No one is really talking about the folk with thousands of followers getting it early.


   
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 Mr. Grey wrote:
If they make too many and have extras sitting out, people will say that the product didn't sell as well as GW thought it would and that it's a failure.

This one stands out even in a thread devoted to corporate white knighting, well done.

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If they make too many and have extras sitting out, people will say that the product didn't sell as well as GW thought it would and that it's a failure.

Oh no, I hope GW would be able to wipe it's tears with those wads of 100$ bills...there's still some Indomitus sets available in stores right now, and no one calls that a failure. And...even if they "called" it a failure, I'm sure the hard cash in GW accounts would more than make up for it.
   
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Indomitus came out in the middle of the pandemic, do people REALLY believe GW had the know-how to orchestrate artificial scarcity in a situation with absolutely zero precedent? They had no way of knowing what demand would really be, and even that is assuming numbers weren't limited by some external factor. Like a global pandemic.

Their production has been limited by factors they have no control over, theorizing about some moustache-twirling corporate scheme to cash in on FOMO is beyond silly during this period.

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I'd like to remind people that GW doubled their revenue last year. This suggests that GW's production demand was double what it had been hither too last year. Indomitus likely got double or more than GW's best estimations based on the previous years of sales.

They had no way to know that a pandemic would start; strip them of 2 months production; hobble their production (even now) with mandatory social distancing in the workplace AND that their customer base would suddenly double in buying power.


That isn't artificial scarcity and the fact that GW did a second print run strongly suggests that they did not intend for Indomitus to sell out as fast as it did. Yes it was limited, every discount is limited from almost any company (because when its not its just the RRP)

   
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Atlanta, GA

 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
If they make too many and have extras sitting out, people will say that the product didn't sell as well as GW thought it would and that it's a failure.

This one stands out even in a thread devoted to corporate white knighting, well done.


Oh no, I hope GW would be able to wipe it's tears with those wads of 100$ bills...there's still some Indomitus sets available in stores right now, and no one calls that a failure. And...even if they "called" it a failure, I'm sure the hard cash in GW accounts would more than make up for it.


It sure must suck to hate a company as much you both do and yet, you're still here, complaining and moaning and calling people "white knights" when they put out even a semi-reasonable argument. Seriously though, maybe find a different hobby?
   
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Germany

 Mr. Grey wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
If they make too many and have extras sitting out, people will say that the product didn't sell as well as GW thought it would and that it's a failure.

This one stands out even in a thread devoted to corporate white knighting, well done.


Oh no, I hope GW would be able to wipe it's tears with those wads of 100$ bills...there's still some Indomitus sets available in stores right now, and no one calls that a failure. And...even if they "called" it a failure, I'm sure the hard cash in GW accounts would more than make up for it.


It sure must suck to hate a company as much you both do and yet, you're still here, complaining and moaning and calling people "white knights" when they put out even a semi-reasonable argument. Seriously though, maybe find a different hobby?


Like clockwork. Do you really believe only people who worship the greedy multi-million dollar company belong in the hobby? Seriously?

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
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 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
If they make too many and have extras sitting out, people will say that the product didn't sell as well as GW thought it would and that it's a failure.

This one stands out even in a thread devoted to corporate white knighting, well done.


Oh no, I hope GW would be able to wipe it's tears with those wads of 100$ bills...there's still some Indomitus sets available in stores right now, and no one calls that a failure. And...even if they "called" it a failure, I'm sure the hard cash in GW accounts would more than make up for it.


It sure must suck to hate a company as much you both do and yet, you're still here, complaining and moaning and calling people "white knights" when they put out even a semi-reasonable argument. Seriously though, maybe find a different hobby?


Like clockwork. Do you really believe only people who worship the greedy multi-million dollar company belong in the hobby? Seriously?
Do you really believe a straw man is an appropriate counterpoint? Seriously, there is a point where attitudes cross over into simply begrudging a company for being successful (by producing product people want to buy, no less). Unless a company is treating humans poorly in some way for profit I don't see how it makes them particularly greedy; society created these business entities and told them their only job is to make money. Don't hate the player for being good at a flawed game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/17 00:18:46


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Germany

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
If they make too many and have extras sitting out, people will say that the product didn't sell as well as GW thought it would and that it's a failure.

This one stands out even in a thread devoted to corporate white knighting, well done.


Oh no, I hope GW would be able to wipe it's tears with those wads of 100$ bills...there's still some Indomitus sets available in stores right now, and no one calls that a failure. And...even if they "called" it a failure, I'm sure the hard cash in GW accounts would more than make up for it.


It sure must suck to hate a company as much you both do and yet, you're still here, complaining and moaning and calling people "white knights" when they put out even a semi-reasonable argument. Seriously though, maybe find a different hobby?


Like clockwork. Do you really believe only people who worship the greedy multi-million dollar company belong in the hobby? Seriously?
Do you really believe a straw man is an appropriate counterpoint?


I dunno, I seem to be talking to one

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
Made in us
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 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Spoiler:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
If they make too many and have extras sitting out, people will say that the product didn't sell as well as GW thought it would and that it's a failure.

This one stands out even in a thread devoted to corporate white knighting, well done.


Oh no, I hope GW would be able to wipe it's tears with those wads of 100$ bills...there's still some Indomitus sets available in stores right now, and no one calls that a failure. And...even if they "called" it a failure, I'm sure the hard cash in GW accounts would more than make up for it.


It sure must suck to hate a company as much you both do and yet, you're still here, complaining and moaning and calling people "white knights" when they put out even a semi-reasonable argument. Seriously though, maybe find a different hobby?


Like clockwork. Do you really believe only people who worship the greedy multi-million dollar company belong in the hobby? Seriously?
Do you really believe a straw man is an appropriate counterpoint?


I dunno, I seem to be talking to one
I did edit in some additional clarification just now. Though that response still doesn't make any sense.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/17 00:20:13


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What does any of this have to do with AoS news and or rumors? Take this back and forth nonsense elsewhere please.

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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Out of the thousands of boxes GW produce, the few hundred they dole out to influencers probably wouldn't be substantial enough to give the webstore more than maybe ten seconds longer before it Sold Out Online compared to the tens/hundreds of thousands they otherwise sell. Odds are they produce... let's say 100,000 and then decide to just send... I don't know, 200 of those to influencers when they're sat at the warehouse ready to be sent out.

The bigger problem is the psychological impact of going on Youtube and seeing just about every single Tom, Dick and Harry with a Warhammer channel posting dozens of videos with their free box, chanting how it's the bestist thing ever and, worse still, when the painters are churning out days or weeks worth of content using them. It creates a negative feedback loop, where somebody who hasn't gotten hold of The Product is then further aggravated by inevitably getting bombarded by loads of this influencer content with said box.

Of course, this is rarely enough to get somebody to outright stop buying GW content so it's not like it really matters, at least until we have another end-of-7th-40k situation again and a new 40k edition will bring them all running back anyway.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/17 00:52:27


 
   
 
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