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So, that's it. It's done, not with a bang but a single-page blurb of a whimper that is at once cataclysmic, epic and potentially anticlimatic. But the question I want to ask is 'what now?'. Before that, though, I just want to set some guidelines/asusmptions so we're all on the same page:

Assumptions:
-9th will pan out as the rumours suggest, becoming a lower-model-count game with mixed factions
- The setting for 9th will not be just a redux of The Old World as we knew it, but something completely new (Bubblehammer, by all accounts)
- Your existing collections will be at least partially useable in this new edition.

So, my question is this: Will you, if you are able, play Warhammer 'historicals'? In other words, will you still play with the existing history of the setting and the armies/models/characters within that, or move on to the new 'current' setting when it hits, leaving The Old World as little more than a footnote? And if so, what rules will you use? Keep playing 8th, or an earlier edition, or something else entirely such as Kings of War or Horde of the Things?

Now the way I see it as an outsider, and someone who sees rules and minis as 2 separate entities, is that 8th edition isn't just going to go away. You still have the models, you still have the rules, and unless your opponent is going to ragequit and sell all their stuff, so do they. So why stop if you already enjoy 8th? You've got all you need (I think the idea of a 'codex cycle/rolling editions` is purely a construct of GW's business model, not a needed thing). Similarly, all that fluff and history is still there; you have thousands of years of history to set your games within, that world may be 'destroyed' in the 'current' setting, but that doesn't stop you playing with it. Historical players don't stop playing Roman-era games because their rules-writer of choice writes some Dark Ages or WW2 rules, after all. I don't see the point in throwing out (literally and metaphorically) the material that's already there just because GW beings out something new. The product is in the hands of the consumers, so I say do with it what you want, regardless of what GW says!

Now I know there are some posters on here that disagree with all of that, but this isn't an argument about what's right or wrong. I am simply interested to see how the players of WFB are going to go forward with their hobby.

Not a criticism or hijack, but I think this topic might have a little relevance. Especially this post to the sixth poll option.

I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment to players that all their 8th ed books (and other, IMO better rules) and armies are right there, there are few reasons to stop playing with them. But I don't know if it'll play out like that. There's a depressing thought pattern (reinforced by GW's culture, I hazard) that current = official = the only playable edition. Vocal minority or not, I see too many folk here say they'll sell their huge, long-accumulated armies at the drop of a hat. Madness.

I love all my 8th edition High, Dark, and Wood Elves. Personally ill look through the new stuff but I'm expecting to stay in 8th as are most in my group. Honestly I dont know how to feel about"the end" beyond what I've read looks disappointing but if I'm lucky there may be some pretty epic battles.

If it turns out to be true, we'll just continue old Warhammer with 8th competitive rules.

Redseer wrote:
I love all my 8th edition High, Dark, and Wood Elves. Personally ill look through the new stuff but I'm expecting to stay in 8th as are most in my group. Honestly I dont know how to feel about"the end" beyond what I've read looks disappointing but if I'm lucky there may be some pretty epic battles.

The end looks disappointing??? How?

People wanted a reboot well they got a new start to a whole other universe. We get to that speck of light left in the void, fast foward a millenium the universe is back up and running and now the chaos gods rear their ugly head again on the old world and BAM we now have the new 9th edition. The return of chaos

 Vermis wrote:
I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment to players that all their 8th ed books (and other, IMO better rules) and armies are right there, there are few reasons to stop playing with them.

Well I can think (at least) of a reason: 8th edition is garbage.



Just my opinion, and I stopped playing "official" WHFB years ago, but honestly, I've been reading through the 8th edition army books lately (things you have to do when you're contributing to a wiki project) and both fluff and most of crunch newly introduced in 8th edition are of dismal quality. The fluff specially, it's simply atrocious, with Ward's gakky fanfiction oozing out of the pages.

All that said, considering what GW has been up to in recent years, I don't think the solution with Fantasy (and even 40k) is to go forward... it's actually better to go back IMO.

I'm out. I really liked Warhammer in seventh and eighth edition, and I have some great memories of the games - my first eighth edition game involved giant swarms of goblins attempting to swamp blocks of dwarfs behind runic walls, so much fluffy carnage - but this is exactly the kind of behavior I don't want to support. The rules aren't awful, but they're nothing special and they certainly aren't elegant. Now that GeeDub nuked the setting, I really don't have anything keeping my loyalty. I'm going to vote with my wallet - for which it will doubtlessly thank me - and look into Kings of War instead.

As I understand it, there's not much in the way of background there yet, so I don't know if I'll be playing KoW proper or KoW rules for a sneaky way to pretend my gobbos are still tromping around the Border Princes...time will tell, I suppose!

 Spinner wrote:
I'm out. I really liked Warhammer in seventh and eighth edition, and I have some great memories of the games - my first eighth edition game involved giant swarms of goblins attempting to swamp blocks of dwarfs behind runic walls, so much fluffy carnage - but this is exactly the kind of behavior I don't want to support. The rules aren't awful, but they're nothing special and they certainly aren't elegant. Now that GeeDub nuked the setting, I really don't have anything keeping my loyalty. I'm going to vote with my wallet - for which it will doubtlessly thank me - and look into Kings of War instead.

As I understand it, there's not much in the way of background there yet, so I don't know if I'll be playing KoW proper or KoW rules for a sneaky way to pretend my gobbos are still tromping around the Border Princes...time will tell, I suppose!

Kings of war ruleset was designed to be usable by any 10 year old. Its boring and overly simplistic. If you enjoy that kind of thing go for it i guess..........

but you still havent seen what comes yet. You are making assumptions

 Korinov wrote:

Well I can think (at least) of a reason: 8th edition is garbage.

That's one of the few reasons, then. One of the few, but a big 'un.

Just my opinion, and I stopped playing "official" WHFB years ago

Me, I switched to poll option #6 long ago. It wasn't even to do with edition changes: it was because I realised how clunky and unfit for purpose Warhammer was in general. (Extends to Warhammer Ancient Battles too!)

 namiel wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
I'm out. I really liked Warhammer in seventh and eighth edition, and I have some great memories of the games - my first eighth edition game involved giant swarms of goblins attempting to swamp blocks of dwarfs behind runic walls, so much fluffy carnage - but this is exactly the kind of behavior I don't want to support. The rules aren't awful, but they're nothing special and they certainly aren't elegant. Now that GeeDub nuked the setting, I really don't have anything keeping my loyalty. I'm going to vote with my wallet - for which it will doubtlessly thank me - and look into Kings of War instead.

As I understand it, there's not much in the way of background there yet, so I don't know if I'll be playing KoW proper or KoW rules for a sneaky way to pretend my gobbos are still tromping around the Border Princes...time will tell, I suppose!

Kings of war ruleset was designed to be usable by any 10 year old. Its boring and overly simplistic. If you enjoy that kind of thing go for it i guess..........

but you still havent seen what comes yet. You are making assumptions

I dunno, I kinda like the fact that they seem to have a solid game that they can explain in thirty pages

And it's hard not to make assumptions when it comes to GW! They seem to have taken some of those 40k axioms about the dangers of knowledge to heart.

 namiel wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
I'm out. I really liked Warhammer in seventh and eighth edition, and I have some great memories of the games - my first eighth edition game involved giant swarms of goblins attempting to swamp blocks of dwarfs behind runic walls, so much fluffy carnage - but this is exactly the kind of behavior I don't want to support. The rules aren't awful, but they're nothing special and they certainly aren't elegant. Now that GeeDub nuked the setting, I really don't have anything keeping my loyalty. I'm going to vote with my wallet - for which it will doubtlessly thank me - and look into Kings of War instead.

As I understand it, there's not much in the way of background there yet, so I don't know if I'll be playing KoW proper or KoW rules for a sneaky way to pretend my gobbos are still tromping around the Border Princes...time will tell, I suppose!

Kings of war ruleset was designed to be usable by any 10 year old. Its boring and overly simplistic. If you enjoy that kind of thing go for it i guess..........

but you still havent seen what comes yet. You are making assumptions

It beats the utter nonsense GW has put out in the last three years by several miles. They have displayed an utter incompetence when it comes to maintaing a IP and well, if you enjoy paying for that well have fun.

 namiel wrote:

Kings of war ruleset was designed to be usable by any 10 year old. Its boring and overly simplistic. If you enjoy that kind of thing go for it i guess..........

I just posted this elsewhere on Dakka. Let me quote myself:

 Vermis wrote:
...reining in granularity, especially in mass battle games where you're better off dealing with broad strokes rather than more speedbumps in the form of micromanagement, is no bad decsion. Anyways, 'easy to play, difficult to master' and deceptive simplicity is a thing. I heard a guy elsewhere describe it as 'complexity vs. complication'. Warhammer might look deep with it's long stat lines and reams and reams of special rules, but at it's heart it's a simplistic IGOUGO 'move, shoot, attack' game, and the heaps of resolutions and unique rules complicate the game. 'It takes too long' is a valid complaint, especially with GW's core two...

Many other games are like [Epic: Armageddon], going a bit further than whether you have cavalry in your flank, either four or five minis in your back rank, or how much listbuilding you did; but are more simple and less cluttered in their application, resolutions, and even the manipulation of minis. So much so that GW's core two, despite their market share and ubiquity, look like bizarre, clunky abberations in comparison.

Additionally, read my first post in this topic. If Kings of War doesn't float your boat, it's far from the only alternative you might find.

I do have to throw in my support for KoW. The rules are simple, but the game is complex, much like Chess. Unlike WFB, where you just bog down in a War of Attrittion until one side gets off a mega-spell, KoW is won and lost in the movement phase, with tactics and positioning winning out over super-mega-killer-blocks of troops. If you haven't tried it, then I reccommend it, as you really need to see it in practice to get a feel for it (failing that, check out the BoW vids on it on Youtube, they do a good job of covering it).

Interesting results on the poll so far, the split between going forward and sticking with 8th is far more even than I had expected (I thought there would be a huge trend towards only playing 'current' rules).

 Paradigm wrote:
(I thought there would be a huge trend towards only playing 'current' rules).

Isn't there? Seems to be split between playing the 'current' 8th ed rules, and playing the 9th ed rules when they're 'current'.

The major problem with this thread is NO ONE here knows what 9th looks like. Everyone is just reading rumors from larry vela(insert salt). Judge when you see the new rules.....if they are gak you can bet I wont be playing 9th either

Given that none of us have seen what the new rules are yet.... this poll is utter BS.

I dunno. We've got plenty of current trends to extrapolate from. Style of writing, style of rules, corporate attitude, the way they're handling the setting and their customers...these are all things that can paint a picture of what to expect, regardless of rumors.

Is it possible that ninth edition will be the best thing ever? Sure, and if it is, I'll probably play it. I just don't think that's very likely, and answered the poll in the way evidence leads me to believe I'll behave.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
Given that none of us have seen what the new rules are yet.... this poll is utter BS.

A) That's why I put the assumptions (based on rumours from multiple sources) in the OP.

B) Seeing as the setting is 'gone', and that to many is as important as the game side of it. I wanted to see how that would affect people, whether they would still keep playing with the same setting but pre-End Times, jump into the rumoured Bubblehamer setting or continue to do both. It's a discussion worth having, especially to see the split between those who feel they must use the current rules/setting even if they don't like them as much and those that are happy, in this instance, to tell GW to stuff it and keep going with what they have.

Well, I am in the 'wait and see' category. I will say that I find it hard to have any hope for the future, and its not going to be easy with the long span of months being in the dark thanks to GW not giving us anything to go on here to get ready for 9th until a week or so before launch. This means I am trying to make sure what few players I have left in my area don't jump ship and cash out or shelve their armies. They didn't seem very interested in KoW at the moment but this might could be the push to give it a shot, but Mantic is still doing the 2.0 rulebook, which is yet to come out if I am not mistaken. Therefore, I can't really recommend another game atm.

 Goldshield wrote:
Well, I am in the 'wait and see' category. I will say that I find it hard to have any hope for the future, and its not going to be easy with the long span of months being in the dark thanks to GW not giving us anything to go on here to get ready for 9th until a week or so before launch. This means I am trying to make sure what few players I have left in my area don't jump ship and cash out or shelve their armies. They didn't seem very interested in KoW at the moment but this might could be the push to give it a shot, but Mantic is still doing the 2.0 rulebook, which is yet to come out if I am not mistaken. Therefore, I can't really recommend another game atm.

The KoW rules are free, so there's nothing to lose by trying them, and I believe there's a cheat sheet floating around in one of the Mantic thread that lists the (small) changes for 2nd Edition. I think they're the kind of rules that, once you see them in action, you appreciate them far more than on paper.

Obviously they won't work for everyone, but I think showing them off with another willing participant would pull a lot of folks off the sidelines.

As someone who never played a single game of WHFB, but has several editions worth of army books, minis and starter sets, I will probably keep doing what I've been doing: enjoying the good parts of the fluff and making my own up to replace the bad parts. If there isn't any more WHFB fluff and no more BL novels or FFG supplements, then I'll probably finish up all my long-running, slow-burning projects and reread my old favorites until something new captures my attention.

KoW will probably be the first mass-battle game I play, but it will be years and years before Mantic develop enough background to make it interesting, and so far they've already had a few stumbles. D'n'D never really got very far with me in terms of background, and neither did Confrontation, Myth and Magic, or any of the other settings I've tried to get into. WHFB just came together in a way that I enjoyed (well, the older stuff did), so it will always be worth revisiting.

Still, knowing that it's dead has given the entire setting a sad feeling, like reading Calvin and Hobbes knowing that they will never have another adventure.

My local is my GW, so 9th it is.

I'll keep all my 8th books obviously, and maybe play 8th once in a blue moon with one of my brothers. But when that chance jumps along we usually play Necromunda. I wanted to have 1 game that I could play in GW and not worry about it ending.

Guess I chose wrong lol! Let's hope 9th is fun and models that look Empirey still exist.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also in the poll the #2 and #5 option are the same surely

Paradigm wrote:

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
Given that none of us have seen what the new rules are yet.... this poll is utter BS.

A) That's why I put the assumptions (based on rumours from multiple sources) in the OP.

I feel your pain. That's another point of similarity with my old thread: a bunch of incensed fanboys, ignoring what you've written in their outrage at the suggestion that GW might not wuv them enough not to kick them where it hurts!

B) Seeing as the setting is 'gone', and that to many is as important as the game side of it.

I'd say background is the best thing going for WFB these days. As mentioned, there are folk who still have an interest in that but won't touch the rules. I'll also be interested to see just how the new background pans out, but does that mean I'll jump right into the 9th ed rules? Does it fairy cakes.

BobtheInquisitor wrote:I will probably keep doing what I've been doing: enjoying the good parts of the fluff and making my own up to replace the bad parts.

That's what I did with OK.

KoW will probably be the first mass-battle game I play, but it will be years and years before Mantic develop enough background to make it interesting

In the vein of Paradigm's OP: who says you have to use the Mantica background to use the KoW rules?

 Vermis wrote:

KoW will probably be the first mass-battle game I play, but it will be years and years before Mantic develop enough background to make it interesting

In the vein of Paradigm's OP: who says you have to use the Mantica background to use the KoW rules?

Indeed. I currently use it as my go-to for LotR Mass Battles rather than playing in the Mantica setting, if I do choose to go for a more High Fantasy route then Ill likely use the (now-old) WFB setting until Mantica can stand on its own feet (which will happen. Remember the game's only been around a couple of years really).

Rules, background, models. All three are really separate entites, I say mix and match as you like.

I am just getting into the hobby, essentially a transfer from 40K. Sold all that off and went all in on Elves (All 3 factions) and Skaven. I am hoping this isn't the end of it, I have a feeling there are going to be quite a few gamers who are ticked off and just say shelve their armies but I think the vast majority are going to be split between two camps: Play the last edition and pick up a few models here and there from 9th and add them to their existing armies while ignoring the existence of 9th or they will embrace 9th and still play 8th on occasion so they can dust off those giant armies and take the field again.

At least I am hoping that's what happens, haha, seeing as how I just dropped $1k of recycled hobby money on this damn game.

 Vermis wrote:

KoW will probably be the first mass-battle game I play, but it will be years and years before Mantic develop enough background to make it interesting

In the vein of Paradigm's OP: who says you have to use the Mantica background to use the KoW rules?

Oh, I don't mean to imply that the two are completely linked in my mind. I have my own ideas for background. I just want to have a good, simple set of rules that is easy to teach my friends and quick to play, then I can plug in whatever minis and background we want for whatever narrative we happen to be forging. We are all more into the story aspects than the mechanics of any particular game.

However, Mantic would get a shedload more money out of me if the background were compelling enough for me to want to buy all the supplements and build thematic forces.

Personally, I've been creating my own background when assembling Mantic models to make it interesting for me since Mantic's background just isn't doing it for me. I also wrote and am still fleshing out background for my Reaper Bones minis so that I can tell a coherent story with such a hodgepodge. So far I have about 14 billion years' worth mapped out.

While I did not like End Times at all, I'm trying to keep myself from making snap judgements about 9th. It's just... it's so hard to say anything right now. I don't like the whole Bubblehammer thing, but I do like the idea of an additional skirmish game with a lower model count. More concrete information on anything would be nice, but I'm feeling that's a long way off.

Bobtheinquisitor, I've actually been playing around with the idea of making up my own background and using the KOW rules too. My background for my warhammer guys was already pretty seperate from the rest of the Old World, so it's not a huge jump...

Kings of War (KoW) seems like the best bet. The KoW background has deliberately vague angles to allow one to easily field their old WHFB army and still play in the spirit of the game, And quite frankly Mantic's home grown models are beautiful (check out those Basileans & Undead).

The KoW rules are straight forward but certainly not over simplified. The few games I have played have been just as strategic as any WHFB game, however I did not find myself frequently looking through the rules tomb as we tried to hammer out some odd rules conundrum.

I think it may be time to buy Mantic stock. Because they might be about to get a whole bunch of new gaming customers. I wonder if they are a publicly traded company (?).

I'm gonna go with 'wait and see'. Still getting us all to hold our breath for something and forcing us to wait to buy models across the setting is kind of not a good business idea.

What will I do? In a word: OLDHAMMER.

If possible, I will play my Tomb Kings in 7th ed or earlier, but EXCLUDING 7th ed Daemons and other abominations imposed on us by that worthless stiff Ward.

If not, I'll find uses for my minis in D&D.