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The title pretty much says it. I'm looking for a lore answer by the way, not a min/max answer. Let me know what you guys come up with.

Black Templars, no doubt about it, they're just as bigotted when it comes to psykers, xenos, etc...

Black Templars most likely.
If you team them up with Grey Knights, legend says Mat Ward can feel a disturbance in the force.

The Red Hunters Chapter in my opinion.

Black Templar, Red Hunters, or Fire Angels. All three follow more approved Ecclesiarchal dogmas.

Grey Knights. If you count their blood being spread over Grey Knights armour as being allied.

Black Templars really are kindred spirits with Battle Sisters, unlike most other chapters including Grey Knights, the BT do NOT even have a librarius, do not use other psykers other than navigators / astropaths, whom they keep chained / sedated / caged ("black boxed") at all times anyway, they abhor any kind of mutation, all xenos, etc.

When you think of BT think WWII Waffen SS on steroids.. they even share the color scheme somewhat, and their chapter symbol IS an iron cross..

It depends a lot on which Order of Sisters you want to ally them with. The Order of the Bloody Rose would go well with agressive fast assault type Chapter like Blood Angels; Black Templar would go well with the Order of Our Martyred Lady because of their stubborness; The Order of Valorous Heart would sit well with Penitent Chapters like Mantis Warriors or Lamanters; The Order of the Sacred Rose is known to be prudent and methodic so it would go well with Imperial Fist; The Order of the Ebon Chalice would go well with very traditionnal and faithful Chapters like Fire Angels; The Order of the Argent Shroud is very compassionate and selfless so would go well with other chapter dedicated to protect civilian like Salamanders or Lamenters.

Of course if you like a bit of drama you can go for the exact opposite. Has for Black Templar and the Sisterhood, they used to dislike each other because the Templar were not respecting the Codex (it might have been retkon thought). Templar were also used to crush rebellions in a way most in the Sisterhood perceived uselessly cruel and brutal. Yet they do share their distrust and hatred of psykers.

There are a lot of votes for Black Templar here, but when you look at the Allies Matrix, it shows Black Templar as "Desperate Allies" where all other Space Marines are "Allies of Convenience". I don't think they're going to work out.

Have there been any Black Library references of marines working together with Sisters? Any mention of it in the lore (other than the Grey Knight atrocity)?

 WarGamerGirl wrote:
There are a lot of votes for Black Templar here, but when you look at the Allies Matrix, it shows Black Templar as "Desperate Allies" where all other Space Marines are "Allies of Convenience". I don't think they're going to work out.

Have there been any Black Library references of marines working together with Sisters? Any mention of it in the lore (other than the Grey Knight atrocity)?

What? I don't think you're up to date with the new rules/fluff, all the Armies of Imperium are now grouped together under one slot, so they're all Battle Brothers. They even explicitly say in the new SM codex that the Templars and Sisters have a developed a complex web of obligation and honour between the two.

Grimskul, that is news to me. I haven't played 40k in the current edition, so I was just going off what I had read in the past. I wonder what changed with the Black Templar & Sisters since 6th ed.

While some chapters may make more obvious allies because of indicated fluff, I would say use a chapter that best fits the story you want to make. I think the Red Hunters fit really well in linking the Inquisition, while The Black Templars fit better as an ally on their own merits.

That being said, I'd go Blood Angels, but that's because I'm biased towards the rather tragic Lamenters. Shakespeare said it best: "Everyone loves a good tragedy." (Don't quote that, I'm almost certain Shakespeare never said any such thing)

Love your videos btw. If you could force CodexDan to get back to work on the hangouts, I'd enjoy watching some 40k based stuff sometimes too

P.S. If you could kick miniwargaming Daves butt with your Soroitas again, that was a fun batrep to watch!

Salamanders...
BUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRNNNNNNNNN!!!!!

Myliel wrote:
Black Templars really are kindred spirits with Battle Sisters, unlike most other chapters including Grey Knights, the BT do NOT even have a librarius, do not use other psykers other than navigators / astropaths, whom they keep chained / sedated / caged ("black boxed") at all times anyway, they abhor any kind of mutation, all xenos, etc.

When you think of BT think WWII Waffen SS on steroids.. they even share the color scheme somewhat, and their chapter symbol IS an iron cross..

The Black Templar's color scheme and iconography are drawn far more from the Teutonic Knights than the Waffen SS. As an interesting point of history, the Iron Cross itself comes from the cross pattee, which was sometimes used by the Teutonic Knights- and even the Knights Templar.

Also, citation for the Black Templars keeping their Navigator/Astropath complements 'black boxed' at all times? I was under the impression- from the current 6th edition Marine codex- that the BT had a measure of respect for their Navigator/Astropath complements, due in part to a tacit admission that those roles are absolutely vital for them to keep crusading away.

 WarGamerGirl wrote:
There are a lot of votes for Black Templar here, but when you look at the Allies Matrix, it shows Black Templar as "Desperate Allies" where all other Space Marines are "Allies of Convenience". I don't think they're going to work out.

Have there been any Black Library references of marines working together with Sisters? Any mention of it in the lore (other than the Grey Knight atrocity)?

As has been mentioned, GW got its head on properly when they redesigned the Allies matrix. Part of this is due to the mechanical fact that Black Templars are actually a Chapter Tactic for the current Marine book, rather than a separate publication as they were previously.

As far as BL+Sisters working together:

-in Ben Counter's novel Grey Knights a group of Sisters aids a few Grey Knights in killing an enormously powerful daemon
-in the novel Death of Antagonis, the Black Dragons chapter of Space Marines ally themselves to a group of Sisters and an Inquisitor to cleanse some Plague Zombie-related stuff.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head, and unfortunately I've not read Death of Antagonis. It's also worth noting that certain Chapters, due to various reasons, lend themselves quite well to allying with the Sisters- the Black Templars due to a nearly identical creed, any chapter that's very buddy-buddy with the Inquisition and/or Ecclesiarchy will (probably) get along well with the Sisters.

And it is also worth noting that the Sisters themselves actually tend to be contemptuous of the Astartes- read the first Sisters novel, Faith and Fire, to see what I mean. BTW, both of the BL Sisters novels are quite excellent, and well worth the read if you're interested in Sisters (or even just Ecclesiarchal intrigue, in the case of Faith and Fire).

Also, as a quick note on the Grey Knights-Sisters potential.

In the new Grey Knight codex, the whole "painted themselves in Sister blood" is not mentioned. The Bloodtide is, but no specific details are given about it anymore. In addition, there is a long sequence where Draigo allies with Sisters against a Nurgle/Tzeentch demon infestation.

No one pisses off the Navigator Houses, not even a chapter of Astartes...

Start putting navigators in chains and forcing them under torture to do your bidding, and before you know it you'd be on the run from the entire Imperium.

While I do agree that the BT and the Red Hunters would work very well with Sisters of Battle, there would also be a good possibility for cooperation with those chapters who share a belief in the Divinity of the Emperor. I don't have a complete list, but I think that the White Consuls, at least, are noted as regarding the Emperor as a god. While the BT beliefs mesh very, very well with the Sororitas, I think a mutual faith in the divine Emperor would 'grease the wheels' of co-operation substantially (and it gives you other modeling opportunities).

They've worked with GK in one of the novels, they worked with Flesh Tearers in Exterinatus, I'm sure there's a plethora of other examples. The better question is are there any chapters they would NOT work with, and I think the answer is generally "they would work with just about any chapter, as IG would"

Surprisingly enough, Blood Angels. If either faction was allowed to, they'd field nothing but Jump Infantry with hand flamers and Inferno Pistols.

 WarGamerGirl wrote:
There are a lot of votes for Black Templar here, but when you look at the Allies Matrix, it shows Black Templar as "Desperate Allies" where all other Space Marines are "Allies of Convenience". I don't think they're going to work out.

the 6th edition allies matrix was absolutely stupid, it made no sense.

Da Butcha wrote:
While I do agree that the BT and the Red Hunters would work very well with Sisters of Battle, there would also be a good possibility for cooperation with those chapters who share a belief in the Divinity of the Emperor. I don't have a complete list, but I think that the White Consuls, at least, are noted as regarding the Emperor as a god. While the BT beliefs mesh very, very well with the Sororitas, I think a mutual faith in the divine Emperor would 'grease the wheels' of co-operation substantially (and it gives you other modeling opportunities).

I would have to disagree about the Red Hunters, SoB and the Ecclesiarchy as a whole have had quite a few clashes with the inquisition in the past, and at the best of times have a healthy distrust for 99% of the inquisitors. Besides they consider that they (the imperial clergy) are the true bearers of the truth and the inquisition should not question it.

Black Templers, there values match quite well just might not trust there links to inquisition completely.

You know the whole in excess of if the codex/ demi legion strength at most.

As has been mentioned, GW got its head on properly when they redesigned the Allies matrix. Part of this is due to the mechanical fact that Black Templars are actually a Chapter Tactic for the current Marine book, rather than a separate publication as they were previously.

As far as BL+Sisters working together:

-in Ben Counter's novel Grey Knights a group of Sisters aids a few Grey Knights in killing an enormously powerful daemon
-in the novel Death of Antagonis, the Black Dragons chapter of Space Marines ally themselves to a group of Sisters and an Inquisitor to cleanse some Plague Zombie-related stuff.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head, and unfortunately I've not read Death of Antagonis. It's also worth noting that certain Chapters, due to various reasons, lend themselves quite well to allying with the Sisters- the Black Templars due to a nearly identical creed, any chapter that's very buddy-buddy with the Inquisition and/or Ecclesiarchy will (probably) get along well with the Sisters.

And it is also worth noting that the Sisters themselves actually tend to be contemptuous of the Astartes- read the first Sisters novel, Faith and Fire, to see what I mean. BTW, both of the BL Sisters novels are quite excellent, and well worth the read if you're interested in Sisters (or even just Ecclesiarchal intrigue, in the case of Faith and Fire).

Thanks, very helpful. I had always thought Black Templar would be the best match, but after seeing that in 6th they were "desperate allies" I just assumed there was some bad history between them.

By the way, I have read both of the Sisters novels. I liked Hammer & Anvil the best. I felt bad for poor Decima =(

 WarGamerGirl wrote:

As has been mentioned, GW got its head on properly when they redesigned the Allies matrix. Part of this is due to the mechanical fact that Black Templars are actually a Chapter Tactic for the current Marine book, rather than a separate publication as they were previously.

As far as BL+Sisters working together:

-in Ben Counter's novel Grey Knights a group of Sisters aids a few Grey Knights in killing an enormously powerful daemon
-in the novel Death of Antagonis, the Black Dragons chapter of Space Marines ally themselves to a group of Sisters and an Inquisitor to cleanse some Plague Zombie-related stuff.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head, and unfortunately I've not read Death of Antagonis. It's also worth noting that certain Chapters, due to various reasons, lend themselves quite well to allying with the Sisters- the Black Templars due to a nearly identical creed, any chapter that's very buddy-buddy with the Inquisition and/or Ecclesiarchy will (probably) get along well with the Sisters.

And it is also worth noting that the Sisters themselves actually tend to be contemptuous of the Astartes- read the first Sisters novel, Faith and Fire, to see what I mean. BTW, both of the BL Sisters novels are quite excellent, and well worth the read if you're interested in Sisters (or even just Ecclesiarchal intrigue, in the case of Faith and Fire).

Thanks, very helpful. I had always thought Black Templar would be the best match, but after seeing that in 6th they were "desperate allies" I just assumed there was some bad history between them.

By the way, I have read both of the Sisters novels. I liked Hammer & Anvil the best. I felt bad for poor Decima =(

The 6th Ed Allies Matrix was a complete mess - Previous to it and subsequently in the new SM Codex the Black Templars have fought alongside the Sororitas on a number of occassions and have built up a complex web of honour and obligation between them. However thats not to say that there will not be "issues" between the BT and AS....... Normal Chapters can also cause the same complications for the devout in that they are the "children" of the Emperor but may decry his divinity - although its notable that this hardly ever happens in the fluff........quite the opposite most Marines still talk baout him as the God-Emperor and seem to revere him as such.

Both the Astartes and the Sororitas are seen as embodiements of the Emperor's Will and might by the rest of the Imperial forces - even the Mechancium see them clad i the most holy of armour and using similar weapons.................

Carcharodons always love to bring along human shields.

 Rippy wrote:
Grey Knights. If you count their blood being spread over Grey Knights armour as being allied.

that's about as "allied" as you can get!

I actually won a local 1500 tournament with the old GK + sisters allied together. It was on a theme of justicar Thawne + St. Celestine so it was kind of necron everliving in a weird way lol.

Blood Angels.

Keep in mind, theirs is the ONLY one of the primarchs who was granted sainthood.

There is a great deal of respect to be had in that.

Myliel wrote:
Black Templars really are kindred spirits with Battle Sisters, unlike most other chapters including Grey Knights, the BT do NOT even have a librarius, do not use other psykers other than navigators / astropaths, whom they keep chained / sedated / caged ("black boxed") at all times anyway, they abhor any kind of mutation, all xenos, etc.

Not anymore. Now the Black Templars just hate xenos psykers, and are okay with the Imperial ones, and the only reason they don't have Librarians is that all of theirs died out.


Of course, I wouldn't blame anyone who thought that retcon was kinda silly. But the old Black Templars who hated all psykers didn't really get along with the Eclessiarchy all that well (or, any better than anyone else) because they believed the Emperor was awesome, but not that he was an actual God, so the Eclessiarchy's dogma was antithetical to their own. Old Black Templars were "Desperate Allies" with the Sisters of Battle because the two sides were modeled Protestants and Catholics in British history.

Minor Spoiler, not too important to the storyline, but a spoiler nonetheless.

[spoiler] In the Salamanders Omnibus by Nick Kyme, some terminator marines attempt to rescue a living relic from a daemon incursion. It's more like watching the Sisters get slaughtered while the terminators make a bloody path of traitorous blood towards the chapel.

BrianDavion wrote:

 WarGamerGirl wrote:
There are a lot of votes for Black Templar here, but when you look at the Allies Matrix, it shows Black Templar as "Desperate Allies" where all other Space Marines are "Allies of Convenience". I don't think they're going to work out.

the 6th edition allies matrix was absolutely stupid, it made no sense.

It actually made plenty of sense. It was just that not everyone at GW got the memo.

The idea was that the Black Templars and Sisters were supposed to be opposite sides of the coin. One fanatically devoted to the Emperor's original secular vision, and the other being fanatically loyal to the idea of the Emperor as the one true God.

Think of Protestants vs Catholics. Shiites vs Sunnis. These are religions that are virtually identical, but have historically been bitter enemies because of small sticking points in dogma. The idea of God-Emperor vs Emperor the Man is a pretty significant one, and it's the reason why Sisters and Space Marine Chapters didn't get along. If you look back to Codex: Witchhunters, you couldn't have both Sisters and Space Marines in the same army. It was one, or the other, because Sisters and Space Marines don't always get along because the Eclessiarchy likes to stick its nose in their business, which the Marine Chapters don't feel they are obligated to have to endure.

So the idea of the most fanatically "religious" Space Marines hating the most fanatically "religious" warriors of the Imperium is actually the most probable outcome. In fact, even moreso one you realize the Sisters of Battle are notorious for sticking their noses in other peoples' business, and the Black Templars have a massively illegal fleet and chapter strength, meaning the Black Templars have a lot to hide. Especially from people like the Sisters of Battle who aren't exactly the most reasonable agency in the Imperium.