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So with the addition of Ranged-D weapons to the Eldar Arsenal, how much of it is likely to be banned from tournaments that ban Ranged D ?

I think that is part of the plan, Trying to force players to accept D weapons in normal games.

They'll probably just comp it all to hell so 2++ screamer stars still reign supreme. Why force people to think and playtest to work out a counter when you can just comp or ban a whole pile of stuff?

^ Eldar player.

Yeah ranged D will be banned at alot of tournaments.

I'm pretty sure that 7-th eldar codex will be banned. People wil just stick to 6-th to avoid trouble.

 koooaei wrote:
I'm pretty sure that 7-th eldar codex wil be banned. People wil just stick to 6-th to avoid trouble.

If 2 weeks ago people had suggested we would be saying we want to play againat the 6th ed codex because it has better external balance - we would have laughed at them. But it's true.

Poly Ranger wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
I'm pretty sure that 7-th eldar codex wil be banned. People wil just stick to 6-th to avoid trouble.

If 2 weeks ago people had suggested we would be saying we want to play againat the 6th ed codex because it has better external balance - we would have laughed at them. But it's true.

I honestly doubt that...

Wraithknights will almost certainly be restricted to 0-1 max, like basically every other LoW.

D-weapons will likely get some kind of mild dialing back, simply so that Wraith armies can remain playable, yet without feeling like you're about to be on the crap end of a "bound & gaged David vs. Mega Goliath" match-up... (especially for vehicle heavy forces & monster mash armies)

Scatlas Bikes will not be much of a problem at all on the Tourney scene as everyone bar Orks have plentiful counters to pit against them.

Daemons & Grey Knights will still badly out psyker Eldar to boot, especially Daemons who are pretty much near-untouchable in the Psychic phase right now. And Eldar have rightly lost access to Malefic, so no more Daemon farming for them either!

Honestly the best change would be to keep the Wave Serpent nerf and just use the rest of the 6th ed Dex.

Armies are still viable WS takes the hit, WKs and other wraith stuff can still be used fairly and no unstoppable scat spam, but you still get to use shiny new Jetbikes. Also no one has to spend 60 on a new dex.

Easy peasy.

Our local "let's have a little casual tournament" guy already doesn't allow even knights, so you can bet you won't see any str D around here.

I'm hoping frontline keeps to their guns and keeps ranged D out of the ITC for this year at least. That still allows the incredibly undercosted melee wraithknight in, though.

If I were a large scale TO, I'd be like "sorry eldar players, they screwed up your book so bad that I've been forced to either make you use the old one, or play in a separate format with the other 7e eldar players."

I guess you have to live with it.
We true Eldar win our games also without Serpent shield and new Jetbikers.

"Scatlas Bikes will not be much of a problem at all on the Tourney scene as everyone bar Orks have plentiful counters to pit against them. "

It's like people have never played against scatterlaser heavy lists before. There is no counter to that much firepower. Your "counters" will evaporate before they have time to cause damage.

I'm just wondering if the people trying to defend the new eldar are okay playing against 30k, and experimental forgeworld, and any superheavies?

Sadly, even those things rarely come up to the level of power that we've seen in the last day or so. >.>


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
"Scatlas Bikes will not be much of a problem at all on the Tourney scene as everyone bar Orks have plentiful counters to pit against them. "

It's like people have never played against scatterlaser heavy lists before. There is no counter to that much firepower. Your "counters" will evaporate before they have time to cause damage.

I learned long ago that roughly 40% of online comments have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Either they have no experience and are just guessing, or they had "that one time where they passed 30 5+ cover saves and then rolled boxcars to make it to combat because the other guy messed up" and they think that that is a common occurrence.

 wuestenfux wrote:
I guess you have to live with it.
We true Eldar win our games also without Serpent shield and new Jetbikers.

No True Scotsman Fallacy.

Say that to an Iyanden player previous to this book. Or Samm Hainn player.

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
I think that is part of the plan, Trying to force players to accept D weapons in normal games.

D weapons are already part of normal games. Apocalypse and Flyers were folded into 40k base rules. Knights were pushed as an official Codex. Unbound armies.

If you're not playing unbound 40k with Titans, Flyers and D-weapons, you're not playing the full game.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
I think that is part of the plan, Trying to force players to accept D weapons in normal games.

D weapons are already part of normal games. Apocalypse and Flyers were folded into 40k base rules. Knights were pushed as an official Codex. Unbound armies.

If you're not playing unbound 40k with Titans, Flyers and D-weapons, you're not playing the full game.

I hate this argument. The rules are sand-box that allow for people to play the game however they want. Let alone the fact that there is no cosmic law of nature that says you have to play the game "as it is". It's also right there in the rules that two consenting adult players can decide what points limits they wish to use, or whether they want to place any additional restrictions on army selection. You yourself are not following the rules if you object to someone not wanting to use Titans, Flyers, or D-weapons. Page 130 states "Both players will need to agree whether they will use a points limit, and other restrictions they will place upon their army selection.."

The point is that it's equally valid to want to play with Flyers, D-weapons, and Titans as it is to NOT want to play with those things. They are both "playing the full game".

If you're not playing unbound 40k with Titans, Flyers and D-weapons, you're not playing the full game.

Can you name a tournament that does not adjust the 40K main rules in any way - they are all House Ruled in some form or another - even if only for terran placement and objectives VPs

Army compositon limitations restrictions are no more or less than this.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

If you're not playing unbound 40k with Titans, Flyers and D-weapons, you're not playing the full game.

So every army list should be an Unbound list that includes titans, flyers and D-weapons?

 insaniak wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

If you're not playing unbound 40k with Titans, Flyers and D-weapons, you're not playing the full game.

So every army list should be an Unbound list that includes titans, flyers and D-weapons?

Blood Angels:
Reaver Titan. 1450
2 ml2 power armor libbies that hide behind each Titan leg rolling on divination for ignore cover/invuln save/rerolls to hit to throw on Titan. 180
4 5 man CCW/bp scouts outflanking for objectives, or charging in to get the Titan out of combat. 220
1850

Sadly this probably wouldn't even do all that well, but at least I have an army for crazyhammer40k ready to go! I even made it battle forged!

niv-mizzet wrote:
I even made it battle forged!

Ah... well, apparently, that means you're not playing the game properly. See above - only Unbound lists are playing the 'full' game.

 insaniak wrote:

So every army list should be an Unbound list that includes titans, flyers and D-weapons?

It's in the rules for some purpose. So yes. At this point, there's not real reason to split stuff up. Every list should be unbound if the players chooses it to be so. Saying whose brand of Fun™ is "The Most Correct Fun™" is a dangerous path. You know what's fun? Playing a game without slicing and dicing up rules.

 insaniak wrote:
So every army list should be an Unbound list that includes titans, flyers and D-weapons?

No, every game should be one where each player has the option to use those things.

The Imperial Answer wrote:
So with the addition of Ranged-D weapons to the Eldar Arsenal, how much of it is likely to be banned from tournaments that ban Ranged D ?

I would be surprised if any ranged D were allowed in tournament play, Eldar codex or no Eldar codex. It sucks that Iyanden players won't be allowed to play their lists in tournaments, but ranged D really is just that absurd.

There is an easy fix to this.

Just go back to the old D rules. Autowound, Autopen, causes ID, ignores cover. Simple and Elegant.

 Peregrine wrote:


No, every game should be one where each player has the option to use those things.

So two players playing a game using Battle Forged lists because they want to are playing the 'full game'... but two players playing a game using those exact same lists because the event rules only allow Battle Forged are not?

At the end of the day, there is no practical difference. Whether you choose for yourself to build a list a certain way, or choose to enter an event that dictates building a list a certain way, if the end result is the same list, you're playing the same game.

 insaniak wrote:

So two players playing a game using Battle Forged lists because they want to are playing the 'full game'... but two players playing a game using those exact same lists because the event rules only allow Battle Forged are not?

At the end of the day, there is no practical difference. Whether you choose for yourself to build a list a certain way, or choose to enter an event that dictates building a list a certain way, if the end result is the same list, you're playing the same game.

The core concept of rules is player parity. An equal ground. So as you stated, I agree, having an event or local game where the parity is set outside of the control of the two opponents (either by purchasing a rulebook or by playing at an event), then you're at least going in on equal ground of what is and is not allowed.

Allowing player choice in feature parity suddenly becomes an extremely arbitrary event based on first hand opinion, not third party objectivity. I can go to an event that lists the rules of engagement and choose not to play simply on them. I can go to a 40k open game night and suddenly get a million special snowflakes on what feature parity is simply because it's written so limp-wristed in the rulebook.

At this point, if I came back to 40k, anything goes. But since 40k is such a mess, I'd not come back.

I'd take the 7th serpent shield, hawks, banshees and scorpions and roll then into the 6th book.

Mr.Church13 wrote:
Honestly the best change would be to keep the Wave Serpent nerf and just use the rest of the 6th ed Dex.

Armies are still viable WS takes the hit, WKs and other wraith stuff can still be used fairly and no unstoppable scat spam, but you still get to use shiny new Jetbikes. Also no one has to spend 60 on a new dex.

Easy peasy.

Except that leaves Shining Spears and Banshees still utterly worthless.

 Marsyas wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
Honestly the best change would be to keep the Wave Serpent nerf and just use the rest of the 6th ed Dex.

Armies are still viable WS takes the hit, WKs and other wraith stuff can still be used fairly and no unstoppable scat spam, but you still get to use shiny new Jetbikes. Also no one has to spend 60 on a new dex.

Easy peasy.

Except that leaves Shining Spears and Banshees still utterly worthless.

Tactical marines, jump pack assault marines, whirlwinds, Baal preds, shooty terminators, devastator marines, vanguard squads, and regular dreadnoughts are all playing the world's smallest fiddle from the BA codex.

It's a shame we still can't deep strike assault. It just wouldn't be fair or proper if we didn't have to stand there and let them hit us with D shots along with over 100 str 6 shots first.