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Is Tigurius as good as the Ultramarines claim he is or is their a dark secret hidden with the codex astartes no one knows about?

Considering that is not how the Hive Mind works...and that the Ultramarines are not the codex astartes...I think you're reaching and kinda just making stuff up.

I was referring to the Codex which has his fluff piece in it. I didn't say the ultramarines are the codex

I'd say that Tigurius has been awesome. However when fighting nids in my games, he will lose both wounds fighting agaisnt SITW creatures.

Tigurius is very powerful. When he was was only a Lexicanum he defeated seven Chaos Sorcerers simultaneously. However he did not completely understand the Hive Mind correctly up until the events of Shield of Baal, where the Hive Mind attempted to assassinate him through a Maleceptor, but he defeated it by drawing upon the power of the Emperor.

It depends i guess..

In any Ultramarine story he will be the most badass librarian ever to walk the path of the psyker.

In any Nid story he is just a slippery bastard that gets away all the time.

He was very awesome against the Necrons as well.. So yeah. Ill go with awesome

I chose the first option because this topic is silly and I figured that was the result that was least favored by the OP who wasted everybody's time by posting it.

It's TigUrius. With an U. Nothing to do with tigers, the big felines. Also, while I'm at it: it's SlAAnesh, not SlaNNesh. Slann are the big bloated bosses of WHFB lizardmen (maybe related to the old ones in 40k too) who are very much anti-chaos. The dark prince strangles a kitten every time someone makes that mistake.

On the topic I'd say that he's not that awesome and has maybe scratched the surface of the hive mind. He or no one else has any clue to the inner workings of said hive mind.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
I chose the first option because this topic is silly and I figured that was the result that was least favored by the OP who wasted everybody's time by posting it.

Sorry for wasting your time. I didn't realize that my poll of how people viewed Chief Librarian Tigurius abilities fluff-wise was detracting from the other important things you were doing while you were paroozing around a site dedicated to plastic figure miniatures and the stories behind said plastic miniatures exploits.

If you want the truth, I was seeing what everyone else thought as my friend up at a college I used to go to believes that every bit of fluff written in the Space Marine codex is a lie just to make them look good. I am not as convinced of this myself, so I put up a poll about the character that is probably the MOST powerful Space Marine character in the book.

Alright, back to the topic. The bit about Tigurius "tapping into the hivemind (paraphrased)" is not a definite fact, even in the codex. It is never intended that Tigurius be canonically recognized as perhaps the only human psyker to have survived such an ordeal unscathed.
By the wording of the Codex he might have been a very perceptive strategist as well as a rare psyker whose talent in divination furthered his ability to counter the Tyranid swarm. As opposed to having actually read the hivemind's commands.
Besides, if you disregard the "rumors" of his hivemind mind reading, his divination powers in this instance is probably about the same as that of Eldrad's.

As for if he's awesome or not, well, I've not read much about him apart from the Codex, but in the Codex he is a rather bland (albeit it's true for everyone in almost every codex, since each of them have like 2-3 paragraphs dedicated to them, tops), but not at all absurd character, since pretty much every other named characters have something going for them. Being the only name Psyker in his codex, he had better be darn good.

Options 2 is what makes the most sense, but... I'm sure the intent of the fluff writers is that Tigurius is the awesomest most special psyker who totally can infiltrate the hive mind.

I picked 2 because even if he is the greatest psyker librarian, a generic grey knights librarian out classes him on the table top in terms of raw power. He has a little more finesse and tact, but he lacks the raw muscle to be the most awesome. also Sevrin Lloth could give him a run for his money.

It always bothered me that he was talked up as much as he has been, and got brokenly powerful rules in the last codex. Ultramarines are many things, but renowned for their psychers is not one of them. He’s a chief librarian, and no slouch, but I wish the time and effort spent on him were placed elsewhere.

As for touching the hive mind, I suspect it’s somewhat true. Not a full melding/reading of minds, but getting close enough to get a clue of shape and direction. This coupled with “normal” divinations and strategic thoughts is what lets him predict the nids.

Mephiston has got to be on a similar level to Tigurius, and on Asphodex (Shield of Baal) Mephiston is utterly stomped by a trio of Maleceptors. The text describes his formidable psychic mind as "a candle before a raging star" when faced with the Hive Mind.

Tigurius may well be able to perceive something within the flow of the Hive Mind; Eldar psykers are occasionally described as "feeling" the flow of communication to and from the Synapse creatures.

Tigurius just has to hope that the Hive Mind doesn't notice him, because otherwise that connection could turn very nasty, very quickly (see the Maleceptor incident in which he was almost killed by a psychic assassin).

He may be awesome...
But he isnt as awesome as Sevrin Loth
Sevrin Loth didnt know he had Psychic Powers until he went into training with his sparring partner AND SHATTERED EVERY BONE WITHOUT TOUCHING THEM
Then the Red Scorpions were like odamn.jpg and trained him in psychic dicipline
He is the Chief Librarian of the Red Scorpions and during the Badab war,he single handedly brought the dead chapter masters body out of a fortress thing filled with heretics
Then he was asked who should be the next chapter master (of which he chose Carab Culln)

Game wise he is super OP
2++ invun (which cannot be denied)
Chooses his own powers
ML3

If fully buffed he gets standard-
7A,S7,T7,I7,AP6 (AP2 if you forfiet I7)
Plus 2+/2++

commander dante wrote:
He may be awesome...
But he isnt as awesome as Sevrin Loth
Sevrin Loth didnt know he had Psychic Powers until he went into training with his sparring partner AND SHATTERED EVERY BONE WITHOUT TOUCHING THEM
Then the Red Scorpions were like odamn.jpg and trained him in psychic dicipline
He is the Chief Librarian of the Red Scorpions and during the Badab war,he single handedly brought the dead chapter masters body out of a fortress thing filled with heretics
Then he was asked who should be the next chapter master (of which he chose Carab Culln)

Game wise he is super OP
2++ invun (which cannot be denied)
Chooses his own powers
ML3

If fully buffed he gets standard-
7A,S7,T7,I7,AP6 (AP2 if you forfiet I7)
Plus 2+/2++

Also, Sevring Loth has a 100% more awesome model than Tigurius. Tigurius looks fugly.
GW should remake the Tigurius model to look like this awesome artwork:

I always thought much of Tigerius was Ultramarine-propaganda. Especially the bombastic parts.

As the greatest of all Space Marine chapters it makes sense that their chief librarian is also something lesser chapters can aspire to.

MarsNZ wrote:
As the greatest of all Space Marine chapters it makes sense that their chief librarian is also something lesser chapters can aspire to.

I agree, Jonah Orion is the Librarian that all others should look up to and Gabriel Angelos' Blood Ravens are an inspiration for the whole of the Imperium.

Lel. honestly he is a lv3 psyker with access to almost all the psychic disciplines. not many even get close to that.

He is obviously an amazaball psyker. weather he actually pried into the hive mind however, there is nothing beyond his word.

Though not sure if its mentioned off the nid side.

commander dante wrote:
He may be awesome...
Game wise he is super OP
2++ invun (which cannot be denied)
Chooses his own powers
ML3

If I remember correctly, he has a special rule that allows him to spend a warp charge point in his movement phase which allows him to get that 2++ save. The problem is that you don't have any warp charge points in the movement phase as they are generated in the psychic phase and any leftover points are discarded at the end of the phase so you can't save any for your next movement phase either. A pretty good example of 6th ed rules not working in 7th and most likely not the way this is intended to be played but if someone brings cheese to the table I'm going to try to deny them actually using it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarsNZ wrote:
As the greatest of all Space Marine chapters it makes sense that their chief librarian is also something lesser chapters can aspire to.

From the 1d4chan article on Ortan Cassius:

"You may have noted a disturbing trend in Ultramarines special characters. Marneus Calgar is the BEST CHAPTER MASTER EVAR, Varro Tigurius is the BEST LIBRARIAN EVAR, Torias Telion is the BEST SCOUT SERGEANT EVAR, Antaro Chronus is the BEST TANK PILOT EVAR, and Cato Sicarius is the BEST SECOND COMPANY CAPTAIN EVAR (okay, maybe not so much on that one). In other words, they're all a bunch of fething Mary Sues. They have essentially no character traits besides being THE BEST EVAR. There's nothing setting them apart from other Space Marines besides the fact they're just better. They're so absolutely perfect that even Fulgrim himself weeps bitter tears that he can never be as perfect as the Ultramarines special characters."

This pretty much sums up why I don't like smurfs.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

commander dante wrote:
He may be awesome...
Game wise he is super OP
2++ invun (which cannot be denied)
Chooses his own powers
ML3

If I remember correctly, he has a special rule that allows him to spend a warp charge point in his movement phase which allows him to get that 2++ save. The problem is that you don't have any warp charge points in the movement phase as they are generated in the psychic phase and any leftover points are discarded at the end of the phase so you can't save any for your next movement phase either. A pretty good example of 6th ed rules not working in 7th and most likely not the way this is intended to be played but if someone brings cheese to the table I'm going to try to deny them actually using it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarsNZ wrote:
As the greatest of all Space Marine chapters it makes sense that their chief librarian is also something lesser chapters can aspire to.

From the 1d4chan article on Ortan Cassius:

"You may have noted a disturbing trend in Ultramarines special characters. Marneus Calgar is the BEST CHAPTER MASTER EVAR, Varro Tigurius is the BEST LIBRARIAN EVAR, Torias Telion is the BEST SCOUT SERGEANT EVAR, Antaro Chronus is the BEST TANK PILOT EVAR, and Cato Sicarius is the BEST SECOND COMPANY CAPTAIN EVAR (okay, maybe not so much on that one). In other words, they're all a bunch of fething Mary Sues. They have essentially no character traits besides being THE BEST EVAR. There's nothing setting them apart from other Space Marines besides the fact they're just better. They're so absolutely perfect that even Fulgrim himself weeps bitter tears that he can never be as perfect as the Ultramarines special characters."

This pretty much sums up why I don't like smurfs.

Its a bit odd the 2++ invun, but as a house rule i subtract 1 from warp charge points (rolling a 4 gets me 3 dice+ML) for the 2++ invun
Also no one likes the smurfs (apart from Mat Ward)

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

commander dante wrote:
He may be awesome...
Game wise he is super OP
2++ invun (which cannot be denied)
Chooses his own powers
ML3

If I remember correctly, he has a special rule that allows him to spend a warp charge point in his movement phase which allows him to get that 2++ save. The problem is that you don't have any warp charge points in the movement phase as they are generated in the psychic phase and any leftover points are discarded at the end of the phase so you can't save any for your next movement phase either. A pretty good example of 6th ed rules not working in 7th and most likely not the way this is intended to be played but if someone brings cheese to the table I'm going to try to deny them actually using it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarsNZ wrote:
As the greatest of all Space Marine chapters it makes sense that their chief librarian is also something lesser chapters can aspire to.

From the 1d4chan article on Ortan Cassius:

"You may have noted a disturbing trend in Ultramarines special characters. Marneus Calgar is the BEST CHAPTER MASTER EVAR, Varro Tigurius is the BEST LIBRARIAN EVAR, Torias Telion is the BEST SCOUT SERGEANT EVAR, Antaro Chronus is the BEST TANK PILOT EVAR, and Cato Sicarius is the BEST SECOND COMPANY CAPTAIN EVAR (okay, maybe not so much on that one). In other words, they're all a bunch of fething Mary Sues. They have essentially no character traits besides being THE BEST EVAR. There's nothing setting them apart from other Space Marines besides the fact they're just better. They're so absolutely perfect that even Fulgrim himself weeps bitter tears that he can never be as perfect as the Ultramarines special characters."

This pretty much sums up why I don't like smurfs.

Which is a shame because the Horus Heresy Ultramarines are portrayed really well. Since the loss of their Primarch and establishment as "the Chapter all new Chapters want to be like" within the Imperium they've taken a few of their stand-out features and embraced them to the exclusion of all others. The Ultramarines of today are a parody of what their Primarch wanted them to be. It's a subtle tragedy.

Xyptc wrote:

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

commander dante wrote:
He may be awesome...
Game wise he is super OP
2++ invun (which cannot be denied)
Chooses his own powers
ML3

If I remember correctly, he has a special rule that allows him to spend a warp charge point in his movement phase which allows him to get that 2++ save. The problem is that you don't have any warp charge points in the movement phase as they are generated in the psychic phase and any leftover points are discarded at the end of the phase so you can't save any for your next movement phase either. A pretty good example of 6th ed rules not working in 7th and most likely not the way this is intended to be played but if someone brings cheese to the table I'm going to try to deny them actually using it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarsNZ wrote:
As the greatest of all Space Marine chapters it makes sense that their chief librarian is also something lesser chapters can aspire to.

From the 1d4chan article on Ortan Cassius:

"You may have noted a disturbing trend in Ultramarines special characters. Marneus Calgar is the BEST CHAPTER MASTER EVAR, Varro Tigurius is the BEST LIBRARIAN EVAR, Torias Telion is the BEST SCOUT SERGEANT EVAR, Antaro Chronus is the BEST TANK PILOT EVAR, and Cato Sicarius is the BEST SECOND COMPANY CAPTAIN EVAR (okay, maybe not so much on that one). In other words, they're all a bunch of fething Mary Sues. They have essentially no character traits besides being THE BEST EVAR. There's nothing setting them apart from other Space Marines besides the fact they're just better. They're so absolutely perfect that even Fulgrim himself weeps bitter tears that he can never be as perfect as the Ultramarines special characters."

This pretty much sums up why I don't like smurfs.

Which is a shame because the Horus Heresy Ultramarines are portrayed really well. Since the loss of their Primarch and establishment as "the Chapter all new Chapters want to be like" within the Imperium they've taken a few of their stand-out features and embraced them to the exclusion of all others. The Ultramarines of today are a parody of what their Primarch wanted them to be. It's a subtle tragedy.

I always thought it was POV, plus you have the much ignored Deathwatch-book, for proof of that. I mean just look at this quote:
Battle-Brothers of the Ultramarines Chapter know well their
place among the Adeptus Astartes and the importance of their
Chapter to both the Imperium and the Emperor. They have
the pride in knowing that theirs is the pinnacle of the Codex
Astartes and the legacy of the loyalist legions which served
the Emperor in his darkest days. It is a pride, however, that
can sometimes blind them to reality and make them arrogant
and uncooperative when the battle would dictate they work
with lesser warriors.

Comes from page 281 in the Deathwatch.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarsNZ wrote:
As the greatest of all Space Marine chapters it makes sense that their chief librarian is also something lesser chapters can aspire to.

From the 1d4chan article on Ortan Cassius:

"You may have noted a disturbing trend in Ultramarines special characters. Marneus Calgar is the BEST CHAPTER MASTER EVAR, Varro Tigurius is the BEST LIBRARIAN EVAR, Torias Telion is the BEST SCOUT SERGEANT EVAR, Antaro Chronus is the BEST TANK PILOT EVAR, and Cato Sicarius is the BEST SECOND COMPANY CAPTAIN EVAR (okay, maybe not so much on that one). In other words, they're all a bunch of fething Mary Sues. They have essentially no character traits besides being THE BEST EVAR. There's nothing setting them apart from other Space Marines besides the fact they're just better. They're so absolutely perfect that even Fulgrim himself weeps bitter tears that he can never be as perfect as the Ultramarines special characters."

This pretty much sums up why I don't like smurfs.

Ironic then that you have a Dark Angel in your signature.

MarsNZ wrote:
Ironic then that you have a Dark Angel in your signature.

How is that ironic?

I would be torn on this, because I feel like the Ultramarines are still tainted by the ridiculousness of Matt Ward.

I'd stick with the fluff in a conserved way and say he glimpsed something of the Hive mind, but that would be it.

If you mean Tigurius, then yes, yes he is.

Tigurius is that good. Both on TT and in flaff.

MarsNZ wrote:
Ironic then that you have a Dark Angel in your signature.

I'm not sure if you understand what irony really means.

Dark Angels are definitely a bunch of badasses and a respected legion. To me, their defining feature is all-consuming guilt and obsession... which is orders of magnitude more interesting than being SUPER AWSUM AND THE BESTEST.