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What do you want/Expect from the new Marine Codex?

This mostly about "Reasonable Wish Listing", not the ridiculous stiff, but realistic wants and exceptions.

Expect:
FOC Modifications GONE! to be replaced by Chapter Specific Detachments.
Chapter Specific Formations.
Chapter Specific Chapter Masters moving to LoW.
Honor Guard and Command Squads becoming Elite.
Rhinos, Razorbacks and Drop Pods becoming Fast Attack Choices.

Want:
Land Speeder Storms become FA Choices. [and be able to take Power Armor]
Land Raiders getting a 5++ Save.
Scout HQ Character
HQs and Terminators to get "Special Ammunition.
Terminator Sargent being able to take any Power Weapon.

Something needs to be done for the poor Tactical Marine. Termagants have gotten cheaper with each codex. Guardians run circles around them with a faux-Rending weapon. Bikes are often just better for many armies.

I think, for a fee, Tactical Squads should get access to special ammo. Almost everything in the game now has grenades for free, but it used to be that you spent points to give each model grenades. How about let Tacticals spend points to give each model access to one of the three special ammo types?

 Yarium wrote:
Something needs to be done for the poor Tactical Marine. Termagants have gotten cheaper with each codex. Guardians run circles around them with a faux-Rending weapon. Bikes are often just better for many armies.

I think, for a fee, Tactical Squads should get access to special ammo. Almost everything in the game now has grenades for free, but it used to be that you spent points to give each model grenades. How about let Tacticals spend points to give each model access to one of the three special ammo types?

If they the special ammo types then what is the point of having SterngaurdÉ

-I would see Chaptermasters are LoW ( more then likly named ones.

-Oddly enough changes to grav weaponry is in my gut opinion

-Tank Squads seems like the way it is going, maybe even Dreadnough talons (squads)

but for me it is hard to see what can be done with them

I'd agree with the removal of FOC modificating abilities - no more troop bikes, and I'll agree with all the usual dedicated transports moving to FA (including LSS's), not sure about Command Squads etc. what happened to them in the BA 'Dex?

However, I really doubt the LSS will get to carry PA - that's it's gimmic, it's a Scout transport. You can't fit Terminators in Rhinos, you can't fit PA in LSS's.
In fact, I don't think any units are going to change drastically themselves - having Vanilla LR's with an Invuln when BA / SW ones don't seems unlikely.

However, what I am expecting is a "Decurion"-style set of formations, where the formations themselves could give LR's 5++'s or whatever (as long as you buy three of them or something), or BS5 Sternies, etc.

Well I did not list everything, I wanted to avoid walls of text.

I actually kind of hope DA get rolled into SM, that way we get decent stuff and not just the stuff that didnt make it into the SM book. I want my Centurions and Storm Ravens

I want assault marines and Vanguards vets to be able to do this-

Strike From the Skies
When this unit moves more than 6 inches in the movement phase over an enemy Zooming flyer, or Swooping Monstrous Creature, or Deep Strikes with in 12 inches of one of these, this unit (in the movement phase) may perform a Vector Strike using the Krak Grenade profile. Any models equipped with Melta Bombs may use the Melta Bomb profile.

Want:

-Make Dreadnoughts more competitive. They are pretty underwhelming at everything. I'm wondering if they will make a formation that has great bonuses that has a dreadnought tax. Not ideal but better than nothing.

-Land Raider point decrease. Again, they will probably have some formation with these. Maybe an Iron Hands specific one.

-Bikes as troops gone. But fill the void elsewhere.

-Tacticals. Maybe a point decrease or access to more special weapons.

I am relatively new to Space Marines, but these are the things I have come across.

Keyword in the OP was "realistic wishlisting".

They'll almost certainly get a Decurion-style chart, probably organized into different types of "strike forces" centered around company specialties (scouts, terminators, etc). I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the book will still have chapter tactics.

I'm on the fence about them losing biker troops. On the one hand, that'd make sense considering the pattern we've seen thus far, but on the other hand we didn't lose Windrider troops. I dunno...

Chapter master SC's will probably become Lords of War.

My biggest hope is that it doesn't get released; the current book is in no way defective, incompatible with the game or even in need of 'fixing' ( not that that happens often anyway). It is balanced, extensive, complete and completely satisfactory; there is very little a replacement could add that would not be change for the sake of change, or made purely to sell more books.

I expect the usual; Formations (which I personally don't like in their current form), characters moved to LoW slots, and the removal of FoC shifts ( fair enough in the Unbound Age).

I can't honestly think of anything that would actually make the book better, either for the game or as a product in its own right.

I fully expect a 'White Scar Wildrider' Formation. Some spam level of bike squads mandatory and all the usual bonuses. Skilled Rider, HoW buff, that sort of thing.

I'm scared that Chapter Tactics might be gone, invalidating the tiny bit of uniqueness that comes from 'alternate Space Marines' like my Astral Claws or Minotaurs or Carchadons.

The only thing I truly want is a Deathwatch official formation, or at least some Deathwatch marines/HQ with anti-xenos flavour rules/stuff. I'm fed up having to track Deathwatch rules all over GW confuse material and then negotiate with opponent to see if he accepts my kill-teams.
These guys are emblematic of 40k and GW let them rot since 4th Ed....

Oh, and also some Termies buffs like special ammo, combis and 2 AC/squad. That would be great!

Yes, I'm aware noting of my claims will actually enter next codex but whatever.

DeadWingman wrote:
If they the special ammo types then what is the point of having Sterngaurd

Fair concern. I'm sure they'd be changed up to allow something else, but the whole "many kinds of ammo" thing has been around before Sternguard. Deathwatch, Callidus Assassin, and Tyrannic War Veterans are all examples of ones that came before. There's no reason why only Sternguard would have access to special types of ammo in a force like the Space Marines.

What do I expect?
A points increase for Assault Terminators and Chaplains (you know because they are too good). Just kidding on this one.

Scouts losing access to heavy weapons in their squad.

Drop pods, Rhinos, and Razorbacks become FA.

FW Land Raider Variants put into the main book.

DA wrapped up into main codex. Deathwing Knights and Ravenwing as exclusive units.

Honor Guard become elite units. Slight point drop maybe.

Grav cannons available to units that can take heavy weapons.

Lysander gets promoted (again) to Chapter Master and gains an extra wound.

Iron Hands Chapter Tactics change so that LOW do not benefit from IWND.

Ravenguard tactics grant scout to bulky models finally.

Clan Raukaan rolled up into the codex.

Oh and formations. Lots and lots of formations.

To still have friends after.

One thing I would like to see is Company Specific Detachments like:

1st Company:
1-4 HQs
2-10 Elites

Tactical/Scouts Company:
1-2 HQs
2-10 Troops
0-2 Elite
0-2 FA
0-2 Heavy

The rumor said a new variant of Land Raider, so maybe the "Titan-killer pattern" will show up, with a D-weapon.
Realistically though, I don't think anything will change other than the FOC and formation stuff.

I will laugh/cry if all the chapters get rolled into one codex though, thus making BA the shortest-lived codex of all time.

Pure Wishlist:
>Land Raider Ares
Terminators with Grav-Cannons, Multi-Mrltas and/or Las-Cannons

I could see:
Grav-Cannons become Heavy weapons along with Heavy Flamers.
Scouts getting Special Weapons.
A new Dreadnaught like Model.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
What do I expect?
Scouts losing access to heavy weapons in their squad.

Grav cannons available to units that can take heavy weapons.

On these two points:

Unless they recut the scout sprues, I don’t see them loosing heavy weapons. Or gaining more, for that mater. ML and HB are the ones with minis, so those are the ones they can field. A lot of unit decisions are based on minis available.

Related to grav cannon availability: If they have a new dread kit that includes them, it makes sense. If they make a new Dev box, or otherwise introduce a PA armed grav cannon, we might see them. Barring that, I expect to have them remain exclusive to cents. The only reason not to have them as an option is there is no mini for it.

One thing that might help Tacs is free toys. There is precedent in some of the BA formations (the one with the vets) and the guardian defenders getting free platforms. Free special/heavies if you use the right formation would equate to a 2-3ppm reduction.

I honestly hope they move DA into the codex, they just suck so bad right now.

Actually nothing. Marines are the most boring faction in the game.
Some formations would be nice.

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
I honestly hope they move DA into the codex, they just suck so bad right now.

So you hate Space Marines you want to give them the Dark Talon?

 Anpu42 wrote:

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
I honestly hope they move DA into the codex, they just suck so bad right now.

So you hate Space Marines you want to give them the Dark Talon?

No, DA need half the great stuff SM have. Namely: Storm Ravens, Storm Talons, Centurions, Grav Weapons.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
I honestly hope they move DA into the codex, they just suck so bad right now.

So you hate Space Marines you want to give them the Dark Talon?

No, DA need half the great stuff SM have. Namely: Storm Ravens, Storm Talons, Centurions, Grav Weapons.

We should get most of those with the new DA Codex, though I would Expect Plasma Centurions rather than Grav Centurions.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
I honestly hope they move DA into the codex, they just suck so bad right now.

So you hate Space Marines you want to give them the Dark Talon?

No, DA need half the great stuff SM have. Namely: Storm Ravens, Storm Talons, Centurions, Grav Weapons.

We should get most of those with the new DA Codex, though I would Expect Plasma Centurions rather than Grav Centurions.

That would worthless if armed with plasma cannons. Because they suck.

Yeah. Plasma Cannons are terrible.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Yeah. Plasma Cannons are terrible.

I am guessing that is because of "Get Hot", but if you can get past that I have found them to be quite the "Multi-Tool"

It suffers from Gets Hot! and being small blast. Small blast won't do much for you unless they come in numbers. Gets Hot! can get in the way of that. The Executioner gets around this by being durable and dumping out tons of shots.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
It suffers from Gets Hot! and being small blast. Small blast won't do much for you unless they come in numbers. Gets Hot! can get in the way of that. The Executioner gets around this by being durable and dumping out tons of shots.

Well with Plasma-Centurions they should be Twin-Linked, that should salve both the Scatter and "Gets Hot" Issues and the 2+ save will also help.
You should see what my Quad Plasma-Cannon Devastators with a Divination-Librarian do.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Yeah. Plasma Cannons are terrible.

I am guessing that is because of "Get Hot", but if you can get past that I have found them to be quite the "Multi-Tool"

It's because small templates are terrible and S7 single shot isn't that awesome, either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
It suffers from Gets Hot! and being small blast. Small blast won't do much for you unless they come in numbers. Gets Hot! can get in the way of that. The Executioner gets around this by being durable and dumping out tons of shots.

Well with Plasma-Centurions they should be Twin-Linked, that should salve both the Scatter and "Gets Hot" Issues and the 2+ save will also help.
You should see what my Quad Plasma-Cannon Devastators with a Divination-Librarian do.

Probably very little against people who space correctly. You are paying a lot of points to do very little there.