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Thos so just a question I have been wondering about. Locally, there are three people who play 30k armies in 40k games. A guy that plays Mechanicum, a guy that plays Dark Angels (Stubborn Legiones Astartes), and a guy that plays Night Lords. Then there's me, I'm starting to collects Sons Of Horus, but haven't built up a full army yet. The DA guy is usually fine, since rules for his legion haven't been released yet. The problems usually come in with the Mechanicum and Night Lords guys. The problems with them are that Mechanicum units have ridiculously high toughness (though low saves) and there are few high-strength weapons that can put out enough shots to deal with them. The Night Lords guy runs a Terror Assault ROW with Infiltrating, Fear Causing, Preferred Enemy (Infantry) troops with Volkite Chargers, Assault Marines with +D3 attacks on the charge, and of course: Konrad Curze. I was just wondering whether this should continue to be allowed. Though, I'll admit that it's quite a dick move to take away a significant amount of people's playing time

The Mechanicum's MC's are just like any other MC's- they go down to grav, rending and poison just fine. Night Lords are SM without ATSKNF and a few tricks.

At the end of of the day, nothing in 30K is more broken then anything that can be found in 40K. I've yet to go up against anything that I couldn't beat with my Dark Eldar and Daemons.

Yes. Nothing in 30k is worse than the overpowered stuff that's already in 40k, so adding it doesn't really change anything. The only reason not to allow it is that by strict RAW it's a separate expansion, but unless you're obsessed with following strict RAW that rule no longer makes any sense.

Considering most armies in the game are immune to fear, assault marines in base 40k suck, and that the Primarchs are still quite weak compared to S: D weapons.

There aint much they can do that compared to 40k cheese.

I can't say for sure without knowing all of what's in 30k. So, off the top of my head, no.

If there was an option for 'I'd consider it if given more information,' I would have picked that.

Yup. Long as it looks cool I am down.

 Jimsolo wrote:
I can't say for sure without knowing all of what's in 30k. So, off the top of my head, no.

If there was an option for 'I'd consider it if given more information,' I would have picked that.

Typically 30k Legion armies are very specialized, for example the "Tactical Marine" of the legion is only armed with bolters, and can expend a turn of shooting to doublefire in one turn, but can't take any specialized weaponry.

Special weapons often come in full units, like the support squad can take an entire unit of plasma guns, melta, flamers akin to Fire Dragons (but don't count as primary troop choices).

They mostly are cheaper in larger squads, and it's harder to min-max 30k legions since taking a unit is practically a tax in itself, they expect for you to take far more units as a result.

Mechanicus is an entirely different story, having high Toughness troops and overall strange weaponry as one would expect, but they are also quite expensive

At this point, why not.

If we're doing entire armies of superheavy walkers, Eldar with D weapons on infantry units and sub-300pt Gargantuan Creatures, and "can't be killed" Necrons, I don't see why 30k armies should sit out any longer.

As long as they had the rules for their Legion on them and were willing to go over them with me prior to the game, sure.

From what I've heard (as a filthy Xenos player I have no stock or interest in 30k beyond it having cool models) 30k armies tend to be underpowered compared to 40k armies at 2000 points and lower, due to the cost and size of their units. Once you go above 2000 points is where 30k armies really shine and can outclass 40k forces. (If I am wrong about that, feel free to correct me).

But, so long as they have all their army rules with them and are willing to walk me through them before we start rolling dice (basically the same standards I hold anyone I play with to) I'd be down to try it at least once.

30k is one of those things that I never bothered learning about because of how far out of my price range it is. As said above, if the player will show me what's going on, I would absolutely play against it with any of my armies. 30k has some amazing ideas in the lists, I know that much. Things I'd really enjoy playing against.

No. I don't like the look or the mixing of lore and for your average fluff army, I think 30k is a lot stronger than 40k.

 jreilly89 wrote:
No. I don't like the look or the mixing of lore

You do realize this is the setting where a 30k army can easily get lost in the warp for 10k years or a 40k army can accidentally travel back to 30k, right? And that 30k/40k rules can be used to represent other fluff elements (for example, using a Tau army to represent a generic 30k-era alien faction)?

I think 30k is a lot stronger than 40k.

You're hilariously wrong about that.

 jreilly89 wrote:
No. I don't like the look or the mixing of lore and for your average fluff army, I think 30k is a lot stronger than 40k.

Gotta agree with..Peregrine here, 30k is in some cases drastically weaker then 40k, Eldar and Necron alone are far above the legions.

Primarchs are impressive beatsticks but even the cheapest goes for what, 385? It goes up from there.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Primarchs are impressive beatsticks but even the cheapest goes for what, 385? It goes up from there.

Most tend to be taken for their armywide presence rather then their ability to beatstick. Cept Angron, who is pretty much as one would expect: A straight up beatstick (but he's got 3+ so even he has issues).

They also don't have Strength D

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
No. I don't like the look or the mixing of lore and for your average fluff army, I think 30k is a lot stronger than 40k.

Gotta agree with..Peregrine here, 30k is in some cases drastically weaker then 40k, Eldar and Necron alone are far above the legions.

I said a standard fluff army. I think Necron and Eldar are far from an average army.


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 Peregrine wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
No. I don't like the look or the mixing of lore

You do realize this is the setting where a 30k army can easily get lost in the warp for 10k years or a 40k army can accidentally travel back to 30k, right? And that 30k/40k rules can be used to represent other fluff elements (for example, using a Tau army to represent a generic 30k-era alien faction)?

And? I can also create a full Chaos Imperial Guard army, an army where Space Wolves and Dark Angels hold hands and dance together. I don't have to like 30k and frankly I don't. I would rather play post-Heresy than pre-Heresy.

I think 30k is a lot stronger than 40k.

You're hilariously wrong about that.

You forgot option 4. Might as well, couldn't bbe worse than eldar.

I would absolutely do it. If only to see those forgeworld models on the table. Sounds like it'd be fun to me!

Sure why not.

Yes, done it before. Balanced, fun games every time.

 jreilly89 wrote:
And? I can also create a full Chaos Imperial Guard army, an army where Space Wolves and Dark Angels hold hands and dance together. I don't have to like 30k and frankly I don't. I would rather play post-Heresy than pre-Heresy.

There's a huge difference between "I don't like 30k" and "it's against the fluff".

 Peregrine wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
And? I can also create a full Chaos Imperial Guard army, an army where Space Wolves and Dark Angels hold hands and dance together. I don't have to like 30k and frankly I don't. I would rather play post-Heresy than pre-Heresy.

There's a huge difference between "I don't like 30k" and "it's against the fluff".

How so? I feel it's against the fluff, considering I haven't read a single story (outside of fan fluff) where 2000 points of a 30k legion fell through the Warp to battle some post-Heresy IoM or Tau. I haven't finished it, but does the Horus Heresy ever touch on such a thing happening?

Would they have to use their own FoC or the 7th ed one?

 jreilly89 wrote:
I feel it's against the fluff, considering I haven't read a single story (outside of fan fluff) where 2000 points of a 30k legion fell through the Warp to battle some post-Heresy IoM or Tau. I haven't finished it, but does the Horus Heresy ever touch on such a thing happening?

I don't know if it ever happens explicitly, but time travel through the warp is part of the setting. Armies arrive before the battle they were sent to join has started, orks go back in time to kill themselves and get a second copy of their favorite gun, etc. And even without time travel a 30k force can represent a marine chapter or chaos force that hasn't changed its tactics significantly since 30k. After all, a lot of 30k stuff is also legal in 40k (Contemptor dreads, Fellblades, etc) or is just infantry with special tactics rules.

 Peregrine wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
I feel it's against the fluff, considering I haven't read a single story (outside of fan fluff) where 2000 points of a 30k legion fell through the Warp to battle some post-Heresy IoM or Tau. I haven't finished it, but does the Horus Heresy ever touch on such a thing happening?

I don't know if it ever happens explicitly, but time travel through the warp is part of the setting. Armies arrive before the battle they were sent to join has started, orks go back in time to kill themselves and get a second copy of their favorite gun, etc. And even without time travel a 30k force can represent a marine chapter or chaos force that hasn't changed its tactics significantly since 30k. After all, a lot of 30k stuff is also legal in 40k (Contemptor dreads, Fellblades, etc) or is just infantry with special tactics rules.

Fair enough. I suppose I would play against a 30k army for a campaign setting, but for average PUGs, I just don't feel like it fits the fluff. To be fair, I'm also not a fan of the Contemptor Dread look in a 40k game.

Wasn't there a story about a ship that goes out of warp and gets boarded by imperial inquisition, because it was sending the recognition codes of an imperial ship that was just being started to be build?

Makumba wrote:
Wasn't there a story about a ship that goes out of warp and gets boarded by imperial inquisition, because it was sending the recognition codes of an imperial ship that was just being started to be build?

Probably, there was also a story of a ship that checks out a distress signal, but there's nothing there but then they get attacked and then send out the distress signal....

The warp is pretty much a "Physics? What are those again?" sort of place, as someone mentioned an Ork Warboss and his Waaagh! that went back in time...And then he saw himself and wanted another copy of his favorite gun so he fought himself...Needless to say it's one of the few times a Waaagh! Is called off due to utter and complete confusion.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
I feel it's against the fluff, considering I haven't read a single story (outside of fan fluff) where 2000 points of a 30k legion fell through the Warp to battle some post-Heresy IoM or Tau. I haven't finished it, but does the Horus Heresy ever touch on such a thing happening?

I don't know if it ever happens explicitly, but time travel through the warp is part of the setting. Armies arrive before the battle they were sent to join has started, orks go back in time to kill themselves and get a second copy of their favorite gun, etc. And even without time travel a 30k force can represent a marine chapter or chaos force that hasn't changed its tactics significantly since 30k. After all, a lot of 30k stuff is also legal in 40k (Contemptor dreads, Fellblades, etc) or is just infantry with special tactics rules.

Fair enough. I suppose I would play against a 30k army for a campaign setting, but for average PUGs, I just don't feel like it fits the fluff. To be fair, I'm also not a fan of the Contemptor Dread look in a 40k game.

It actually perfectly fits the fluff. The Chaos Space Marine codex is complete garbage that does not reflect the Legions at all, even post Heresy. The HH rules are the only material that closely represents them since 3.5 Ed.

I would and I have. Have a guy here who runs iron hands 30k with a beeeeeyutiful painted army. (He's our local painting commission guy.) He's not bad or anything, but the last time we played in a local tourney, my BA swept him off the table.

I'd love to play against more 30k. Heck of a lot better than hitting a wall of metal that won't die or being shot to death by basic troops that have more fire power than my heavy supports.

I play against AD Mech 30k quite a lot, yes they are powerful but they have to pay a high points cost.

I find its quite fun to have even more factions in the game, but I feel 30k and 40k are balanced with each other to a certain extent.

I do play eldar but always seems a good match up against ad mech 30k