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Can you (if you had the chance to) assault on the first turn?
E.G i have some ruststalkers hiding behind a building 12" away (as they have scout+cannot be seen) from a farseer council,i move 9" (as they have the dunestrider rule...but can i assault?

A unit that makes a Scout redeployment cannot charge in the first game turn.

Yes, if you can legally declare a charge first turn, you can do so.

Inquisitor with Liber, termies plus dedicated land raider, get Scout, the LR scouts, the unit inside does not.

Warp Spiders could potentially charge on the first turn. 2D6+6" warp jump, then 2D6" assault.

commander dante wrote:
Can you (if you had the chance to) assault on the first turn?
E.G i have some ruststalkers hiding behind a building 12" away (as they have scout+cannot be seen) from a farseer council,i move 9" (as they have the dunestrider rule...but can i assault?

If you have made a scout move or infiltrated, you cannot assault on the first game turn. see relevant special rules

 jokerkd wrote:

commander dante wrote:
Can you (if you had the chance to) assault on the first turn?
E.G i have some ruststalkers hiding behind a building 12" away (as they have scout+cannot be seen) from a farseer council,i move 9" (as they have the dunestrider rule...but can i assault?

If you have made a scout move or infiltrated, you cannot assault on the first game turn. see relevant special rules

You cannot assault on your first game turn if you scout or infiltrate. Not necessarily the first game turn.

 Crazyterran wrote:

 jokerkd wrote:

commander dante wrote:
Can you (if you had the chance to) assault on the first turn?
E.G i have some ruststalkers hiding behind a building 12" away (as they have scout+cannot be seen) from a farseer council,i move 9" (as they have the dunestrider rule...but can i assault?

If you have made a scout move or infiltrated, you cannot assault on the first game turn. see relevant special rules

You cannot assault on your first game turn if you scout or infiltrate. Not necessarily the first game turn.

Scout and infiltrate specify that that unit can not assault on their first turn, not just the first player turn

Infiltrate rule state "their first turn". scout states "first game turn"

Any Ork vehicle with Boarding Plank adds 2" to assault so if both armies are on their lines 24" apart, the Orks have a 1/12 chance of assaulting the first turn, per vehicle.

 jokerkd wrote:
Infiltrate rule state "their first turn". scout states "first game turn"

Which really means the same thing ad you cannot assault in your opponents first player turn.

Iirc first player turn is naturally forbidden from charging(can't provide rules quote as i am not at home). So spiders cannot assault if the eldar player goes first(this is for balance).

Then infiltrators cannot assault their first player turn(so even if you go second they cannot assault).

Scouts cannot assault in the fist game turn(so same thing really)

Anything coming in from reserves cannot assault the turn they come in(this includes deepstrike which also specifically prohibits assault for things that get to deepstrike from the table. This is also a balance thing as anyone who has ever had a gunline army getting assaulted by ork commandos with snikrot in their own table edge can atest, sucks.)

There is no generic prohibition on first turn assaults.

There's a Skitarii formation that could easily let you assault turn one, with 4 units no less. The formation lets you run and assault once per game. Oh and they have dunstrider so +3" when moving running and assaulting.

So that's 9" move + 4"-9" run (don't forget to roll 2d6 for Crusader like I do all the time) + 5"-15" charge. That's an 18"-33" movement range. With 4 dedicated melee units.

BomBomHotdog wrote:
There's a Skitarii formation that could easily let you assault turn one, with 4 units no less. The formation lets you run and assault once per game. Oh and they have dunstrider so +3" when moving running and assaulting.

So that's 9" move + 4"-9" run (don't forget to roll 2d6 for Crusader like I do all the time) + 5"-15" charge. That's an 18"-33" movement range. With 4 dedicated melee units.

I believe the rule specifies turn 2 onwards.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 jokerkd wrote:
Infiltrate rule state "their first turn". scout states "first game turn"

Which really means the same thing ad you cannot assault in your opponents first player turn.

Iirc first player turn is naturally forbidden from charging(can't provide rules quote as i am not at home). So spiders cannot assault if the eldar player goes first(this is for balance).

Then infiltrators cannot assault their first player turn(so even if you go second they cannot assault).

Scouts cannot assault in the fist game turn(so same thing really)

Anything coming in from reserves cannot assault the turn they come in(this includes deepstrike which also specifically prohibits assault for things that get to deepstrike from the table. This is also a balance thing as anyone who has ever had a gunline army getting assaulted by ork commandos with snikrot in their own table edge can atest, sucks.)

Snik with full unit was never that devastating. Allowing unlimited IC's to accompany him was the real "broken" part of that. Yeah, Ghaz in his MegaArmor and crazy Mad Doc are going to sneak around back without being heard . . .

Honestly if they limited Snik with only Komandoes, no IC's to assault from reserves that wouldn't be that bad. They still have only the 6+ save and the opponents would still get to Overwatch.

What about the Sicarian Killclade?
Its says "once per game you may assault after running"
And codex overrides rulebook...

If your enemy throws a drop pod at you, you can then assault whatever comes out on your first turn.

Swooping hawks now move 18. They can get far enough to assault first turn.

Ways to assault turn 1:

Hawks and Spiders (or Autarch with their equipment) from Eldar can both potentially move 18"+ turn 1 allowing a charge.

Scouting transports (marines have numerous ways of doing this Scouts in a LSS being the most obvious).

Angels Fury Formation allows assault from DS if you arrive within 12" of its homers which are delivered by Storm Raven and can arrive on turn 1 (on a 3+ with a reroll) add drop pods to the mix and turn 1 assault anywhere.

Pivot trick.

Enemy moving towards you or deepstriking near you (via for instance Drop Pod or NSF). Or assaulting your opponents Scouts and/or infiltrators

There is no blanket restriction on assaulting turn 1 it is just often difficult to achieve and most things that would enable it like scouting and infiltrating have a restriction against it. Likewise I believe every single run and charge rule prevents use on turn 1...

 FlingitNow wrote:
Ways to assault turn 1:

Pivot trick.

This actually no longer works in 7th ed.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
Ways to assault turn 1:

Pivot trick.

This actually no longer works in 7th ed.

Agreed. No part of the vehicle's hull can end the move more than 6" (or whatever the max move is) from where the hull started. Ergo, if you pivot, then move to grant extra distance, you just have to pivot again to stay within the maximum range. You gain no distance this way.

Yeah forgot that thanks guys

Banshees out of a Raider can make it, no problem.

I had considered them part of the pivot trick. Will still need a 10+ and your opponent to deploy opposite you, but certainly doable.

However, according to that rule for edges it means that a ghost ark can never really turn, since it's so long and thin

Someone mentioned that terminators in a dedicated landraider with scout could assault turn 1 because the landraider scouted and the terminators didn't.

Got news for you: Unless your landraider moved outside your deployment zone and the terminators were left behind, then they, too, made a scout move and you aren't able to charge turn 1 with them.

I have done it with Arjac and his Amazing Precision Wack-A-Mole Drinking Buddies out a a LRC.
It only takes going 2nd and the other player to move into the middle of the board.

I love when players with infiltrators set up their units in charge range. Sometimes that 12" away if the enemy can't see you just calls to them - and my maulerfiends move quite fast

commander dante wrote:
What about the Sicarian Killclade?
Its says "once per game you may assault after running"
And codex overrides rulebook...

Yes, that will handily let you assault after running. But it says nothing about any other thing that might prevent you from assaulting. So if you scout/infiltrate you still can't assault even if you run. You have two no-assault conditions and a special rule that gets rid of one.

Spetulhu wrote:

commander dante wrote:
What about the Sicarian Killclade?
Its says "once per game you may assault after running"
And codex overrides rulebook...

Yes, that will handily let you assault after running. But it says nothing about any other thing that might prevent you from assaulting. So if you scout/infiltrate you still can't assault even if you run. You have two no-assault conditions and a special rule that gets rid of one.

On turn 1 it gets rid of neither. It specifically tells you it can't be used turn 1 as I pointed out above.

 Spellbound wrote:
Someone mentioned that terminators in a dedicated landraider with scout could assault turn 1 because the landraider scouted and the terminators didn't.

Got news for you: Unless your landraider moved outside your deployment zone and the terminators were left behind, then they, too, made a scout move and you aren't able to charge turn 1 with them.

Awesome, so they can only redeploy 6" even inside the vehicle?

No, wait. That's not the actual rule. The actual rule is that the terminators make no scout redeploy move at all. Their deployment - inside the land raider - remains the same. It is only the lr that scouts, rules wise. If you disagree, cite a real rule.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 Spellbound wrote:
Someone mentioned that terminators in a dedicated landraider with scout could assault turn 1 because the landraider scouted and the terminators didn't.

Got news for you: Unless your landraider moved outside your deployment zone and the terminators were left behind, then they, too, made a scout move and you aren't able to charge turn 1 with them.

Awesome, so they can only redeploy 6" even inside the vehicle?

No, wait. That's not the actual rule. The actual rule is that the terminators make no scout redeploy move at all. Their deployment - inside the land raider - remains the same. It is only the lr that scouts, rules wise. If you disagree, cite a real rule.

Also LSS works. See "Know your limits" a named rule for Scoutibg battlewagons that has to exist to restrict you doing that action. If you couldn't then they wouldn't have created a named special rule to stop you doing something you already couldn't do.