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Hey guys. I love the look of the models , but am not a fan of the fluff. So I was wondering, Would it be possible for a DE Kabal to realise how futile their attempt to stave off Slaanesh's thirst is and become more like their eldar brothers? As in using the spirit stones, not being as depraved, ect. Or is this considered fluff massacre haha. Cheers.

No they will actually wither away to nothing if they try

Not sure if it could be well justified fluffwise. But you can always use DE models to figure CW Eldar one. Paint them as such and invent something to justify their different wargear

Yes they can, just as Craftworld Eldar can become Dark Eldar.

There are examples such as the Path of the Warrior novel which has a reformed Incubus character as a Striking Scorpion. In the Dark Eldar novels by Andy Chambers there is an Eldar Ranger that starts becoming like the Dark Eldar and starts experiencing the soul draining thirst, which he does not like. His exact fate is unknown but he is last seen leaving Commorragh presumably to either return to the Craftworlds or to become a Corsair.

The Corsairs are the intermediate stage between the Craftworld Eldar and Dark Eldar. The Path of the Outcast novel by Gav Thorpe has an Eldar Corsair that used to be a Dark Eldar Kabalite. She experiences no soul drain, though we do not seem to see her with any spirit stone either.

There are however differences that any newcomer to either society would have to deal with. For example, the Dark Eldar are supposedly more physically honed than the Craftworld Eldar but at the expense of having atrophied psychic abilities. I do not mean just overt psychic powers but the innate empathic senses and psychic abilities that other Eldar have (such as being able to operate psychic triggers). This again is a factor in the Dark Eldar novels by Andy Chambers, as the ex-Ranger character is able to sense things that regular Dark Eldar cannot because they are virtually psychically blind. Similarly, the Harlequin character Motley is able to easily see through Vect's body double because although physically and behaviorally identical to Vect, the double lacked Vect's sheer force of willy. This absence was instantly detectable to the Harlequin's psychic senses.

Iracundus wrote:
Yes they can, just as Craftworld Eldar can become Dark Eldar.

There are examples such as the Path of the Warrior novel which has a reformed Incubus character as a Striking Scorpion. In the Dark Eldar novels by Andy Chambers there is an Eldar Ranger that starts becoming like the Dark Eldar and starts experiencing the soul draining thirst, which he does not like. His exact fate is unknown but he is last seen leaving Commorragh presumably to either return to the Craftworlds or to become a Corsair.

The Corsairs are the intermediate stage between the Craftworld Eldar and Dark Eldar. The Path of the Outcast novel by Gav Thorpe has an Eldar Corsair that used to be a Dark Eldar Kabalite. She experiences no soul drain, though we do not seem to see her with any spirit stone either.

There are however differences that any newcomer to either society would have to deal with. For example, the Dark Eldar are supposedly more physically honed than the Craftworld Eldar but at the expense of having atrophied psychic abilities. I do not mean just overt psychic powers but the innate empathic senses and psychic abilities that other Eldar have (such as being able to operate psychic triggers). This again is a factor in the Dark Eldar novels by Andy Chambers, as the ex-Ranger character is able to sense things that regular Dark Eldar cannot because they are virtually psychically blind. Similarly, the Harlequin character Motley is able to easily see through Vect's body double because although physically and behaviorally identical to Vect, the double lacked Vect's sheer force of willy. This absence was instantly detectable to the Harlequin's psychic senses.

Ahh thanks! Do you know whether the corsairs use ravagers? And when you said "inate empathic sense, do you mean DE are incapable of feeling empathy? Cheers.

They do use Ravagers.

DE that tried to 'get clean,' as it were, are going to do better if they're younger. The older ones have become too dependent on their own brand of psychic vampirism.

So do the forgeworld rules for corsairs allow them to use ravagers?

Sire122 wrote:
So do the forgeworld rules for corsairs allow them to use ravagers?

No, but they can take Venoms. They can also get a unit of Dark Eldar Warriors who can take a Raider.

Okay cheers. I guess I'll just use regular DE with my own little back story.

Sire122 wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Yes they can, just as Craftworld Eldar can become Dark Eldar.

There are examples such as the Path of the Warrior novel which has a reformed Incubus character as a Striking Scorpion. In the Dark Eldar novels by Andy Chambers there is an Eldar Ranger that starts becoming like the Dark Eldar and starts experiencing the soul draining thirst, which he does not like. His exact fate is unknown but he is last seen leaving Commorragh presumably to either return to the Craftworlds or to become a Corsair.

The Corsairs are the intermediate stage between the Craftworld Eldar and Dark Eldar. The Path of the Outcast novel by Gav Thorpe has an Eldar Corsair that used to be a Dark Eldar Kabalite. She experiences no soul drain, though we do not seem to see her with any spirit stone either.

There are however differences that any newcomer to either society would have to deal with. For example, the Dark Eldar are supposedly more physically honed than the Craftworld Eldar but at the expense of having atrophied psychic abilities. I do not mean just overt psychic powers but the innate empathic senses and psychic abilities that other Eldar have (such as being able to operate psychic triggers). This again is a factor in the Dark Eldar novels by Andy Chambers, as the ex-Ranger character is able to sense things that regular Dark Eldar cannot because they are virtually psychically blind. Similarly, the Harlequin character Motley is able to easily see through Vect's body double because although physically and behaviorally identical to Vect, the double lacked Vect's sheer force of willy. This absence was instantly detectable to the Harlequin's psychic senses.

Ahh thanks! Do you know whether the corsairs use ravagers? And when you said "inate empathic sense, do you mean DE are incapable of feeling empathy? Cheers.

Not quite, I mean that Eldar all have innate psychic abilities though only those Eldar that become Seers truly develop them to the point of being able to channel overt psychic powers. However the technology of the Craftworld Eldar for example is based around psychic technology, with some triggers being psychic rather than physical. Even Eldar that have not developed their innate abilities can still do minor things like interface with such psychically controlled technology, or sense the emotional content of the Infinity Circuits such as the anger and rage coursing through them when the Craftworld is gearing up for war.

However even these innate abilities to sense psychic phenomena or emotions are atrophied in Dark Eldar. In Path of the Renegade by Andy Chambers, the ex-Ranger (since he was from the Craftworlds) could sense a vague sense of wrongness and horror in some catacombs of Commorragh that he found himself in. Ultimately this turned out to be something warp related, but the Dark Eldar around him seemed blind to it all. Similarly, the Harlequin Motley could easily sense which was the real Vect and which was his body double because his unatrophied psychic senses allowed him to feel the aura that radiated from the true Vect, and which the double lacked. The body double worked though because other Dark Eldar could not sense this.

The Harlequins also recruit Dark Eldar, so, those Dark Eldar are likely reformed to another way of staying alive as well.

No. But the Dark Eldar will eventually be forced out of Commorragh due to the massive incursion of Khaine's Gate. Vect will be forced to ally himself with (the now still alive) Eldrad and eventually the craftworlds in general and the exodites to form the host of the Eldars...

 lcmiracle wrote:
No. But the Dark Eldar will eventually be forced out of Commorragh due to the massive incursion of Khaine's Gate. Vect will be forced to ally himself with (the now still alive) Eldrad and eventually the craftworlds in general and the exodites to form the host of the Eldars...

I think I might have heard that story before.

 lcmiracle wrote:
No. But the Dark Eldar will eventually be forced out of Commorragh due to the massive incursion of Khaine's Gate. Vect will be forced to ally himself with (the now still alive) Eldrad and eventually the craftworlds in general and the exodites to form the host of the Eldars...

What makes you think that Vect can't handle the incursion? Commarragh has faced invasion before, and Vect has always been in control the whole time. And this ''Knocking at the door'' fiasco has even given Vect time to plan! If there is one thing you don't do, it's give the most cunning, intelligent, wealthy beyond compare and possibly oldest mortal being in the galaxy time to plan before you invasion. During the Path of the Archon Vect contained and funneled an Chaotically tainted Aelindrachi invasion using Webway fail safes to get them all in a single area. Then, Vect used fail safes to conjoin the offending subrealm with the subrealm containing the Stolen Suns, melting the entire subrealm to molten slag. Sure, Khaines Gate is situated in the middle of Commarragh and melting it would be an upset, but we all know Vect will go to any measure to destroy his enemies. Remember Vect has even beein *giving* rival Archons land around Khaines Gate, so it seems to me that when it opens, he will melt these Archons along with the Gate in a ''Two Birds One Stone'' kinda deal.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:
No. But the Dark Eldar will eventually be forced out of Commorragh due to the massive incursion of Khaine's Gate. Vect will be forced to ally himself with (the now still alive) Eldrad and eventually the craftworlds in general and the exodites to form the host of the Eldars...

What makes you think that Vect can't handle the incursion? Commarragh has faced invasion before, and Vect has always been in control the whole time. And this ''Knocking at the door'' fiasco has even given Vect time to plan! If there is one thing you don't do, it's give the most cunning, intelligent, wealthy beyond compare and possibly oldest mortal being in the galaxy time to plan before you invasion. During the Path of the Archon Vect contained and funneled an Chaotically tainted Aelindrachi invasion using Webway fail safes to get them all in a single area. Then, Vect used fail safes to conjoin the offending subrealm with the subrealm containing the Stolen Suns, melting the entire subrealm to molten slag. Sure, Khaines Gate is situated in the middle of Commarragh and melting it would be an upset, but we all know Vect will go to any measure to destroy his enemies. Remember Vect has even beein *giving* rival Archons land around Khaines Gate, so it seems to me that when it opens, he will melt these Archons along with the Gate in a ''Two Birds One Stone'' kinda deal.

Vect has managed a Daemon Incursion in Commarragh on a far smaller scale.The Khaine's gate is this massive warp gate leading straight into the warp that cannot be stopped. And it's not as if Vect has not taken his actions, but these are just not enough; Lady Malys has already activated -- and destroyed a lot of these so-called Webway fail-safes; Malys is described to have been "outmaneuvering" Vect at every turn, and just like Vect, unaware of the other's motives.

I can see it now: Mayls is going to end up trapped in a tower talking to Slaanesh, and Cegorach will see his schemes foiled and laugh for the last time. And the whole of Commarragh's Dark Eldars (or what's left of it) will be forced to make this exodus as gradually every realm sees cracks through which Daemons pour in. Vect will kill all the slaves he can find before leaving the Haemonculus to their stasis & doom...

Iracundus wrote:
Yes they can, just as Craftworld Eldar can become Dark Eldar.

There are examples such as the Path of the Warrior novel which has a reformed Incubus character as a Striking Scorpion. In the Dark Eldar novels by Andy Chambers there is an Eldar Ranger that starts becoming like the Dark Eldar and starts experiencing the soul draining thirst, which he does not like. His exact fate is unknown but he is last seen leaving Commorragh presumably to either return to the Craftworlds or to become a Corsair.

The Corsairs are the intermediate stage between the Craftworld Eldar and Dark Eldar. The Path of the Outcast novel by Gav Thorpe has an Eldar Corsair that used to be a Dark Eldar Kabalite. She experiences no soul drain, though we do not seem to see her with any spirit stone either.

There are however differences that any newcomer to either society would have to deal with. For example, the Dark Eldar are supposedly more physically honed than the Craftworld Eldar but at the expense of having atrophied psychic abilities. I do not mean just overt psychic powers but the innate empathic senses and psychic abilities that other Eldar have (such as being able to operate psychic triggers). This again is a factor in the Dark Eldar novels by Andy Chambers, as the ex-Ranger character is able to sense things that regular Dark Eldar cannot because they are virtually psychically blind. Similarly, the Harlequin character Motley is able to easily see through Vect's body double because although physically and behaviorally identical to Vect, the double lacked Vect's sheer force of willy. This absence was instantly detectable to the Harlequin's psychic senses.

I am very sorry about this, because I'm sure this a great piece of information, but I got to the end and can't take it seriously anymore.

"The double lacked Vect's sheer force of willy."

The difference 1 mistyped key can make is huge.

 lcmiracle wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:
No. But the Dark Eldar will eventually be forced out of Commorragh due to the massive incursion of Khaine's Gate. Vect will be forced to ally himself with (the now still alive) Eldrad and eventually the craftworlds in general and the exodites to form the host of the Eldars...

What makes you think that Vect can't handle the incursion? Commarragh has faced invasion before, and Vect has always been in control the whole time. And this ''Knocking at the door'' fiasco has even given Vect time to plan! If there is one thing you don't do, it's give the most cunning, intelligent, wealthy beyond compare and possibly oldest mortal being in the galaxy time to plan before you invasion. During the Path of the Archon Vect contained and funneled an Chaotically tainted Aelindrachi invasion using Webway fail safes to get them all in a single area. Then, Vect used fail safes to conjoin the offending subrealm with the subrealm containing the Stolen Suns, melting the entire subrealm to molten slag. Sure, Khaines Gate is situated in the middle of Commarragh and melting it would be an upset, but we all know Vect will go to any measure to destroy his enemies. Remember Vect has even beein *giving* rival Archons land around Khaines Gate, so it seems to me that when it opens, he will melt these Archons along with the Gate in a ''Two Birds One Stone'' kinda deal.

Vect has managed a Daemon Incursion in Commarragh on a far smaller scale.The Khaine's gate is this massive warp gate leading straight into the warp that cannot be stopped. And it's not as if Vect has not taken his actions, but these are just not enough; Lady Malys has already activated -- and destroyed a lot of these so-called Webway fail-safes; Malys is described to have been "outmaneuvering" Vect at every turn, and just like Vect, unaware of the other's motives.

I can see it now: Mayls is going to end up trapped in a tower talking to Slaanesh, and Cegorach will see his schemes foiled and laugh for the last time. And the whole of Commarragh's Dark Eldars (or what's left of it) will be forced to make this exodus as gradually every realm sees cracks through which Daemons pour in. Vect will kill all the slaves he can find before leaving the Haemonculus to their stasis & doom...

So what you're saying is...Vect really does become Malekith in space!

 Jimsolo wrote:
They do use Ravagers.

DE that tried to 'get clean,' as it were, are going to do better if they're younger. The older ones have become too dependent on their own brand of psychic vampirism.

"Getting clean" is a good way to describe it. There seem to be three methods for Eldar to fend off the effects of Slaanesh's soul draining:

1) Live a disciplined, regimented life where nothing is taken to excess (Craftworld Eldar)
2) Live as excessively as you can, and torture other sentient races to drain their souls, thus replacing your own. This gives the Eldar who do it an emotional rush, as well as boosting their strength and energy to superhuman-er-eldar levels, represented in-game by pain tokens. It really is like a drug. (Dark Eldar)
3) Serve Cegorach, the trickster god, and be a huge troll. He'll protect you. (Harlequins)

So a Dark Eldar changing their ways (moving from method 2 to method 1) would be very much like a person getting off drugs. Some do, or find a sort of middle ground as Harlequins or Corsairs, but it ain't easy. Most don't have the willpower, which is why they stay in Commoragh even though it's such a dangerous fethhole.

Alright that makes sense. Do you reckon they would use those stones? Or was scorpionov correct in saying that they'd whither away and die? Cheers.

Sire122 wrote:
Alright that makes sense. Do you reckon they would use those stones? Or was scorpionov correct in saying that they'd whither away and die? Cheers.

Spirit stones aren't for keeping them from withering away. The methods I mentioned above are for that. Spirit stones catch an Eldar's soul when he or she dies, keeping it from going to Slaanesh. As you can imagine, that ain't a pleasant afterlife. When a DE dies, their screwed. That's why DE try so hard to ensure they live forever. If a Corsair dies, they're often screwed too, although some of them may still have a Spirit Stone from their Craftworld days. Harlequins are, once again, protected by Cegorach, and their souls go somewhere safe without the aid of Spirit Stones.

I'm sure they'd all use spirit stones if they could, but they're not exactly easy to get ahold of. Spirit stones are only found on Crone Worlds- as in, former Eldar worlds in the Eye of Terror. Craftworlds have some stockpiled, and occasionally launch dangerous raids into the Eye to get more. I don't imagine they're too keen on parting with spare spirit stones to some random Dark Eldar or Corsair especially given the DE's tendency to screw them over.

 fallinq wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
They do use Ravagers.

DE that tried to 'get clean,' as it were, are going to do better if they're younger. The older ones have become too dependent on their own brand of psychic vampirism.

"Getting clean" is a good way to describe it. There seem to be three methods for Eldar to fend off the effects of Slaanesh's soul draining:

1) Live a disciplined, regimented life where nothing is taken to excess (Craftworld Eldar)
2) Live as excessively as you can, and torture other sentient races to drain their souls, thus replacing your own. This gives the Eldar who do it an emotional rush, as well as boosting their strength and energy to superhuman-er-eldar levels, represented in-game by pain tokens. It really is like a drug. (Dark Eldar)
3) Serve Cegorach, the trickster god, and be a huge troll. He'll protect you. (Harlequins)

So a Dark Eldar changing their ways (moving from method 2 to method 1) would be very much like a person getting off drugs. Some do, or find a sort of middle ground as Harlequins or Corsairs, but it ain't easy. Most don't have the willpower, which is why they stay in Commoragh even though it's such a dangerous fethhole.

Indeed the lovely Maensith who commands several Corsair warships (including at least one battleship) in Path of the Outcast treads that line extremely effectively without apparently a soul stone, remaiig personable although.her personaility shifts a little when working with other Dark Eldar. She is also a little touchy about her heritage and how the other Eldar see them.

 fallinq wrote:

Sire122 wrote:
Alright that makes sense. Do you reckon they would use those stones? Or was scorpionov correct in saying that they'd whither away and die? Cheers.

Spirit stones aren't for keeping them from withering away. The methods I mentioned above are for that. Spirit stones catch an Eldar's soul when he or she dies, keeping it from going to Slaanesh. As you can imagine, that ain't a pleasant afterlife. When a DE dies, their screwed. That's why DE try so hard to ensure they live forever. If a Corsair dies, they're often screwed too, although some of them may still have a Spirit Stone from their Craftworld days. Harlequins are, once again, protected by Cegorach, and their souls go somewhere safe without the aid of Spirit Stones.

I'm sure they'd all use spirit stones if they could, but they're not exactly easy to get ahold of. Spirit stones are only found on Crone Worlds- as in, former Eldar worlds in the Eye of Terror. Craftworlds have some stockpiled, and occasionally launch dangerous raids into the Eye to get more. I don't imagine they're too keen on parting with spare spirit stones to some random Dark Eldar or Corsair especially given the DE's tendency to screw them over.

Yeah, I know what the spirit stones do. I'd imagine when a DE tries to get clean, they'd want to get a hold of their own spirit stone to protect their soul once they die, now that they've given up their old way.. Do you thing the DE would do their own raids? or are they too afraid of slaanesh to consider it.

Sire122 wrote:

 fallinq wrote:

Sire122 wrote:
Alright that makes sense. Do you reckon they would use those stones? Or was scorpionov correct in saying that they'd whither away and die? Cheers.

Spirit stones aren't for keeping them from withering away. The methods I mentioned above are for that. Spirit stones catch an Eldar's soul when he or she dies, keeping it from going to Slaanesh. As you can imagine, that ain't a pleasant afterlife. When a DE dies, their screwed. That's why DE try so hard to ensure they live forever. If a Corsair dies, they're often screwed too, although some of them may still have a Spirit Stone from their Craftworld days. Harlequins are, once again, protected by Cegorach, and their souls go somewhere safe without the aid of Spirit Stones.

I'm sure they'd all use spirit stones if they could, but they're not exactly easy to get ahold of. Spirit stones are only found on Crone Worlds- as in, former Eldar worlds in the Eye of Terror. Craftworlds have some stockpiled, and occasionally launch dangerous raids into the Eye to get more. I don't imagine they're too keen on parting with spare spirit stones to some random Dark Eldar or Corsair especially given the DE's tendency to screw them over.

Yeah, I know what the spirit stones do. I'd imagine when a DE tries to get clean, they'd want to get a hold of their own spirit stone to protect their soul once they die, now that they've given up their old way.. Do you thing the DE would do their own raids? or are they too afraid of slaanesh to consider it.

Well the Dark Eldar DON'T use spirit stones, so clearly something is stopping them. Maybe they're too afraid. Maybe the DE method of staving off Slaanesh's soul drain isn't compatible with spirit stones.

Or maybe they just can't protect themselves in the Eye. Entering the Eye of Terror is basically going into the Warp, after all. There's a story in the Daemon codex about a group of powerful Eldar farseers entering the warp and trying to infiltrate the Garden of Nurgle. They actually got pretty far before they were turned into diseased trees. Psychic powers and psychic protection were heavily involved in their attempt. Grey Knights, the Imperium's big daemon fighters, are all psychic, as are many Ordo Malleus members. It seems that psychic power is pretty important for playing around in the Warp without getting eaten. Dark Eldar have no psychic powers. They've deliberately crippled their psychic ability and let it wither to almost nothing. So that might be what's stopping them.

Hard to train new tricks to old dogs. In the case with Dark Eldars they are all pretty much super ancient depraved monsters. Not so much changing their ways but changing the fundamental part of their life, and one that lets them survive the way they are. I doubt any would see it from a moral standpoint, and if they do think it's futile to stave off Slaanesh, better to just keep on living their lifestyle than throwing it all away to live like Craftworld Eldar, who they'd perceive as neither living to Eldar's fullest potential and also see it as stooping low to their level.

I'd say it's much easier to have someone who swears and lives by Apple to change from iPhone to fliphone. And I mean the kind that wears the Apple shirt and owns Apple stock and is already saving up to buy the next Apple watch.

Ha that gave me a good chuckle. I remember reading that Commoragh has a large level of Eldar-human hybrids. Perhaps they could more easily become less evil? not sure about the fluff, pretty new to 40k

I always got the sense that the main reason DE don't use the stones is that they'd basically be leaving a lunchable behind for the jerk next to him or her should they bite it.