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Due to modelling ineptitude I put both an Assault Cannon and a CML in a five-man squad of Deathwing Terminators, not sure which I should remove, asked around in other topics but didn't get too many answers.

Guessing it might be the Assault Cannon, generally seems like the popular choice but I could be wrong.

Assault cannon is a popular choice on regular termies since it tends to shoot at the same things a stormbolter does, but when your guys can split fire things get much less linear.

Yeah, that was the big sticking issue for me and why I wanted to be absolutely sure before I pried off the CML.

No love for plasma cannons?

I tend to run AC on shooty units and CML on THSS units. The AC has the same range as the SB as can fire at similar units, I also like more shots. I use the CML on the THSS units because even if a unit runs from them they still have good range, plus they are usually going after the higher toughness models or vehicles.

 Vector Strike wrote:
No love for plasma cannons?

Doesn't really work well with grim resolve.

That said, anything in it's right mind assaulting termies wouldn't care much about some AC or CML overwatch.

You still get to use the storm bolter with a Cyclone Missile Launcher.

Vector Strike wrote:No love for plasma cannons?

Nah, apparently not very good (and I'm not liking the sounds of them too much, still stuck with one in my Tactical Squad though...). Also it wasn't an option for me, it was the Assault Cannon, CML or Heavy Flamer. I figured I'd take the AC over the HF and didn't realize this boxy shoulder thing was a weapon rather than a decoration until I read the (6E) codex again afterwards.

Soss wrote:I tend to run AC on shooty units and CML on THSS units. The AC has the same range as the SB as can fire at similar units, I also like more shots. I use the CML on the THSS units because even if a unit runs from them they still have good range, plus they are usually going after the higher toughness models or vehicles.

That sounds reasonable. For the record, this squad is the typical "Storm Bolter and Power Fist/Chainfst" one, so they'd get the AC under that reasoning.

Colehkxix wrote:You still get to use the storm bolter with a Cyclone Missile Launcher.

Yeah, I know about that. Not sure if that's really any good though.

Colehkxix wrote:
You still get to use a thunder hammer and storm shield with a Cyclone Missile Launcher.

Fixed that one for you.

Really? Because the rules state that you replace ALL weapons with the Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield or Lightning Claws.

IMO, i think they took the CML on TH/SS away from us. We can still put a SB/PF/CML in our squads but as I read it, we dont get CML on assault DW termies anymore. :(

I love the CML. and I think you can still fire the CML at targets that youd fire the stormbolters at.

I have used the CML to take out a huge chunk of a Gaunt squad before I charged them.

Although lately I have been foregoing the tactical terminator squad in favor of the TH/SS unit, so I havent had a chance to use them recently.

 Icculus wrote:
I love the CML. and I think you can still fire the CML at targets that youd fire the stormbolters at.

Really? Isn't that against the infantry ranged weapon rules?

 Icculus wrote:
I have used the CML to take out a huge chunk of a Gaunt squad before I charged them.

That seems fair though, at the same time I have to wonder if an Assault Cannon couldn't do it.

Why would you want an expensive unit like this to carry missiles when there are so many cheaper ways to get missiles into Space Marines.

Assault cannons, on the other hand, come on either Terminators or easily exploded vehicles (at the range they can shoot from).

Fair point, never really thought of it like that.

The only real upside would be having them on a Relentless unit that can Split Fire, it would seem. You can get cheaper missiles, with the option for Flakk, it would seem.

This is a question that the rest of your list answers for you.

If your list (aside form the terminators ) has a lot of anti-infantry, the take the CML for some anti-armor.

If your list has a good amount of anti-armor, take the assuslt cannons for infantry duty/light AV.

The Cyclone can shoot with the storm bolter, it allows this via the description of the cyclone itself in the wargear section.

And vs the assault cannon : in my experience the cyclone is a better buy. First, you get 4 shots off that model same as the assault cannon, they are just a touch more versatile against anything but AV14 vehicles.

Plus the cyclone gives you range, if your termies get isolated or kill their target and are left out the cyclone has a much better chance to continue to contribute to the battle.

Plus 2 frags plus storm bolter will pile on enough wounds on infantry to do about the same damage as the assault cannon anyways (mathhammer notwithstanding of course).

For my money, heavy flamer for drops right onto infantry, but cyclone every time otherwise.

raiden wrote:This is a question that the rest of your list answers for you.

If your list (aside form the terminators ) has a lot of anti-infantry, the take the CML for some anti-armor.

If your list has a good amount of anti-armor, take the assuslt cannons for infantry duty/light AV.

Honestly kinda hard to say then, not really sure how I am with regards to both. I was light on Anti-Armor before but I might be balancing out a bit now.

Gideon999 wrote:The Cyclone can shoot with the storm bolter, it allows this via the description of the cyclone itself in the wargear section.

Really? I thought it just let you keep the Storm Bolter, not fire them both at once.

Gideon999 wrote:And vs the assault cannon : in my experience the cyclone is a better buy. First, you get 4 shots off that model same as the assault cannon, they are just a touch more versatile against anything but AV14 vehicles.

Plus the cyclone gives you range, if your termies get isolated or kill their target and are left out the cyclone has a much better chance to continue to contribute to the battle.

Plus 2 frags plus storm bolter will pile on enough wounds on infantry to do about the same damage as the assault cannon anyways (mathhammer notwithstanding of course).

For my money, heavy flamer for drops right onto infantry, but cyclone every time otherwise.

Hmmm, I see. Doesn't sound too bad, I suppose.

Really sorry to bump this but still rather confused about this whole thing and it seems pretty evenly split.

Are there any other specific details that might help settle this?

 CrashGordon94 wrote:
Really sorry to bump this but still rather confused about this whole thing and it seems pretty evenly split.

Are there any other specific details that might help settle this?

1. The range on the CML ensures that, if your opponent runs away, you can at least still hit them.
2. Krak can ID more potential targets.
3. Splitfire the CML

Assault cannon is pretty sweet on overwatch, and it can also try to get rends on 2+ armoured ennemies.
It's also generally better for glancing vehicles to death, especially when twin-linked after deep-striking: when you Deep Strike behind a tank, would you prefer 2 S8 hits on AV 10 or 4 S6 hits? Yeah, increased odds of killing it are generally better than increased odds of getting a pen.
Personally, I believe that if your terminators are stuck dealing with hordes you have a problem with your strategy (or you're playing full deathwing).
It's also a bit cheaper.

 Talon of Anathrax wrote:
Assault cannon is pretty sweet on overwatch, and it can also try to get rends on 2+ armoured ennemies.
It's also generally better for glancing vehicles to death, especially when twin-linked after deep-striking: when you Deep Strike behind a tank, would you prefer 2 S8 hits on AV 10 or 4 S6 hits? Yeah, increased odds of killing it are generally better than increased odds of getting a pen.
Personally, I believe that if your terminators are stuck dealing with hordes you have a problem with your strategy (or you're playing full deathwing).
It's also a bit cheaper.

1. Terminators shouldn't be firing much Overwatch anyway.
2. Generally more powerful, but MUCH shorter range and less ID targets.
3. You don't need penetrations, you need to glance. CML's can do that but from further range.

It really boils down to your list. I think ACs are the overall better weapon, but if you don't have long ranged/high str firepower in the rest of your list, it almost makes the CML a must take.

It's going to sound strange, but maybe the right choice is neither. The point is to go powerfist something, right? No matter which you choose, you will suck at shooting. So pay less points to suck at shooting.

Martel732 wrote:
It's going to sound strange, but maybe the right choice is neither. The point is to go powerfist something, right? No matter which you choose, you will suck at shooting. So pay less points to suck at shooting.

You get TL the turn you Deep Strike. Soooo the shooting doesn't entirely suck...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
It's going to sound strange, but maybe the right choice is neither. The point is to go powerfist something, right? No matter which you choose, you will suck at shooting. So pay less points to suck at shooting.

You get TL the turn you Deep Strike. Soooo the shooting doesn't entirely suck...

The ceiling for total hits is still quite low though, due to model cost.

If you are Deep Striking you want the Assault Cannon or Heavy Flamer.
If you are not Deep Striking Cyclones and Plasma.
I have been using sort of a mix.
Usually 1 10 model with twin Plasma Cannons to put on an objective on my side of the table and the rest who are Deep Striking get the Assault Cannons.

Maelstrom808 wrote:It really boils down to your list. I think ACs are the overall better weapon, but if you don't have long ranged/high str firepower in the rest of your list, it almost makes the CML a must take.

Again, kinda hard to say. List is available in my signature but it's REALLY preliminary and I've got a lot of stuff left to buy in any case.

Anpu42 wrote:If you are Deep Striking you want the Assault Cannon or Heavy Flamer.
If you are not Deep Striking Cyclones and Plasma.
I have been using sort of a mix.
Usually 1 10 model with twin Plasma Cannons to put on an objective on my side of the table and the rest who are Deep Striking get the Assault Cannons.

I'm definitely Deep Striking these guys. I might consider Land Raiders for Knights or even a Command Squad but the shooty guys are ABSOLUTELY Deep Striking, the nature of the Deathwing Strike Force and my plans to primarily go DeathRaven (sometimes with a CAD around for miscellaneous stuff and a better place for my Dreadnoughts) made sure of that (not even sure how I'd do anything else, it seems like there's confusion on whether Deathwing Transports deploy normally or you get to drop Land Raiders in peoples' faces, but that's probably another discussion for another time). Besides, I won't be able to afford Land Raiders until later on!

Martel732 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
It's going to sound strange, but maybe the right choice is neither. The point is to go powerfist something, right? No matter which you choose, you will suck at shooting. So pay less points to suck at shooting.

You get TL the turn you Deep Strike. Soooo the shooting doesn't entirely suck...

The ceiling for total hits is still quite low though, due to model cost.

That's true, but 8-9 Storm Bolter hits is better than the original 6. Not that Storm Bolters are good, but every little bit helps. TL blasts with the Frag Missiles is okay as well.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
It's going to sound strange, but maybe the right choice is neither. The point is to go powerfist something, right? No matter which you choose, you will suck at shooting. So pay less points to suck at shooting.

You get TL the turn you Deep Strike. Soooo the shooting doesn't entirely suck...

The ceiling for total hits is still quite low though, due to model cost.

That's true, but 8-9 Storm Bolter hits is better than the original 6. Not that Storm Bolters are good, but every little bit helps. TL blasts with the Frag Missiles is okay as well.

For terminators to be remotely worth their absurd price, they have to get into CC. That's just a tall order for foot sloggers, even deep striking.