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Ok so just bought the Mechanicus dex yesterday as it is a faction that I'm pretty unfamiliar with. Now one of the formations literally sets up a deathstar for you. All it requires is a character such as Issodon to get them forward.
So if you take 2 robot maniples with full phosphor blaster upgrades, a Dominus with eradication ray and Mask of Alpha Dominus and Issodon, you get a unit with majority T7.
Issodon grants infiltrate (if he is the warlord) and scout to the unit (so can end up 12" from opponent before T1) as well as shrouded and stealth (only T1 for the latter). The Dominus allows you to change the Protocols (as long as you don't use the one it was changed from again) whenever you wish.
It has split fire and the Datasmiths can tank with their 2+/5++/5+++ (at T7 with 2Ws).
The unit has tremendous fire power, doesn't really need the powerfists on the Kastelans due to being MCs and the ability to use Invocation of Machine-Might. And has incredibly good assault ability.
It does however cost 950pts which seems prohibitively expensive.

I'm not convinced it is worth it for the points but can definitely see its usefullness. What I'm surprised about is that I've not seen it discussed. People have obviously used it before - it's already set up as a deathstar, it's definitely not something from outside the box. This suggests to me it is average. If it was amazing, people would be bigging it up/complaining about it. If it was awful and since it costs 700-1000pts, people would be really miffed with it (especially considering how expensive it would be money wise to run).
So who's used it so far?
What additions did you add (such as Issodon)?
How would you rate it?
What problems did you encounter?

On a seperate note, 18pts each for a T3 5++/5+++ model? I don't care that the Electro priests have Zealot, Canticles and Staves/Gauntlets... If you give a T3 5++/5+++ model a st10 ap1 at initiative melee weapon without any bullet catchers I STILL wouldn't pay 18pts for them, but 2 st5 ap4 I3 attacks? At 18pts??? Are you having a giraffe?

The Rulebook FAQ prevents a character with Infiltrate joining a unit without Infiltrate during deployment.

Lol shot down.

Actually Issodons Warlord trait allows him to grant 3 units infiltrate. So he grants the unit infiltrate before joining.


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DirtyDeeds wrote:
Lol shot down.

Lol backfire


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Besides, I'm asking if people have used it and how it performs. How could I have been 'shot down' even if Issodom didn't have that WL trait?

I'm planning to ally that formation into my BA army. The phosphor weaponry allows for re-rolled charge distance (aka Fleet) against units that took damage from them, and Blood Angels REALLY need some Fleet to help their assaults out.

Plus...it's a very hard to get rid of firebase (especially if you take the It Will Not Die granting artifact).

Lias cannot join the squad as it is unit of MC. The cohort specifically allows the Dominous to attach. You can infiltrate them with Master of Ambush. That is Lias warlord trait and that is perfectly legal as I believe master of ambush says nothing about MC just about vehicles.

 NightWrench wrote:
Lias cannot join the squad as it is unit of MC. The cohort specifically allows the Dominous to attach. You can infiltrate them with Master of Ambush. That is Lias warlord trait and that is perfectly legal as I believe master of ambush says nothing about MC just about vehicles.

DirtyDeeds wrote:
Lol shot down.

I completely overlooked the reroll charge distance. That is a big help.
For 135pts with both phosphor upgrades, I think these are streets ahead of the dreads.
If it wasn't for majority toughness rule it'd also be worth taking max datasmiths. 50pts for a PF and data spike, a st6 melta, 2+/5++/5+++, and canticles on a 2W platform... what a steal!


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 obsidiankatana wrote:

 NightWrench wrote:
Lias cannot join the squad as it is unit of MC. The cohort specifically allows the Dominous to attach. You can infiltrate them with Master of Ambush. That is Lias warlord trait and that is perfectly legal as I believe master of ambush says nothing about MC just about vehicles.

DirtyDeeds wrote:
Lol shot down.

So they can still be infiltrated (the main point), they just lose out on shrouded and scout. Not shot down at all.
In fact as Issodon was a suggestion and I am asking how people have found this deathstar so far, the original purpose of this thread remains. So grow up you two (not you NightWrench).


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Since they are MCs and can't use building-escape hatch combo, and since gate and levitation can't be cast upon them due to no ICs. Is there anyway except Issodon (or a random roll for WL on strategic by anyone else), to get them upfield quicker? I can't think of a way off the top of my head :-s.

Poly Ranger wrote:
I completely overlooked the reroll charge distance. That is a big help.
For 135pts with both phosphor upgrades, I think these are streets ahead of the dreads.
If it wasn't for majority toughness rule it'd also be worth taking max datasmiths. 50pts for a PF and data spike, a st6 melta, 2+/5++/5+++, and canticles on a 2W platform... what a steal!

Canticles are based on the number of units that feature the rule.

So if you're taking just the Cohort Cybernetica, you'll have 3 units for the purposes of Canticles, the two Kastelan Robot units and the Dominus. If taking this formation it's not unwise to use the Dominus as your Warlord and hope for the 6 on the Mechanicus Warlord table, making it so that the Warlord and his unit always get the full level of Canticles.

That's not a bad idea either. Although for 405pts you can take another Dominus and 2 units of breachers, not only taking the count upto 6 but also allowing for the re-use of a canticle.

I have to read about these 950 deathstars and then am reminded of every battle ever I had vs broadsides which pack more punch for 267 points. This makes me sad.

Definitely more firepower per point from broadsides, but at max efficiency (with Benediction of Omniscience and Protector protocols) you are looking at 36 bs3 tl st6 ap3 that reduce cover saves by 1, 1 tl bs5 st8 ap1, 5 tl bs5 st4 ap6 and 3 bs4 tl st6 ap2 armourbane, it definitely puts down more than broadsides... but it ruddy should at that many points! Looking at 825pts for taking away Issodon and adding another datasmith.
It is its assault potential that really shines though. On the charge with Conqueror protocols activated (on kastelans without powerfists), you get, 20 st6 ap2 I2 attacks, 9 st8 ap2 I1 attacks, 4 st5 ap2 I2 attacks and 4 st4 haywire I10 attacks. (Plus HoW from Robots). These attacks can have upto +3St or rerolls to hit or 3 automatic st4 hits per Machanicus model in the combat.

There are lots of units better at shooting oer point. There are lots of units more durable per point, there are lots of units better at assault per point. But none that I can think of that are better all rounders. This unit screams 'all rounder' deathstar to me. But in 40k all rounder units tend to not really shine. Is that the case with this unit? Is it worth collecting? It is after all a hefty chink of points.

Well broadside might pack more punch but I doubt they can withstand the hail of fire these guys can. You also have to look at the fact that is your opponent really going to pour fire into them with the chance that it I could literally comeback to bite him?

Personally I've seen these guys reflect shots back and devastate the attacking unit without even firing at them. Couple this with FNP IWND and Dominus MoM and this already tough and not easily ignored unit is at max healing 5 wounds a round. I love this formation as it just a walking wrecking ball but not so OP that people call foul, but enough to fit the cost.

The datasmiths are no slouches either as they benefit greatly from the majority T7 coupled with +2/ 4++(5pt upgrade) and a FNP of their own. Also stick a raiment of the technomartyr of a datasmith and enjoy mass BS2 snapshots

I'd buy it, even if you don't always plan on running it you'll be left with a still pretty good heavy slot unit.

If you decide to try them out, always cycle the most wounded kastelan to the back to allow for dominus heals and let the unwounded models take the brunt.

 Ir0njack wrote:


If you decide to try them out, always cycle the most wounded kastelan to the back to allow for dominus heals and let the unwounded models take the brunt.

I thought you removed a whole model when taking casualties, I don't think you can parcel out wounds to multiple members of a unit ( you can maybe soak up some wounds on a character, but otherwise I think you remove the whole model, so each mast élan can't take a wound.

buckero0 wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:


If you decide to try them out, always cycle the most wounded kastelan to the back to allow for dominus heals and let the unwounded models take the brunt.

I thought you removed a whole model when taking casualties, I don't think you can parcel out wounds to multiple members of a unit ( you can maybe soak up some wounds on a character, but otherwise I think you remove the whole model, so each mast élan can't take a wound.

Nope. Nothing requires you to remove whole models. You just have to allocate to the closest model so you just have to shuffle them around so that a different model is closer (or in assault you can just pick a different model to take wounds in between wound pools)

Its not run for the same reason I don't stick two men's and a buncha lootas in a stompa anymore. Its fun but very all your eggs in one basket. A group of necrons wraiths could tie that up all game. Hell with 3+ and 4+ reanimation you might eventually win for far far less. All a necron player would have to do is kill the vanguard to stop them dropping them to toughness 4.

Lias doesn't have Master of Ambush as his WT, he has Master of Manoeuvre (Outflank one unit, significantly worse).

I don't think you need to overcomplicate the unit, just take the Phosphor weapons and either the Relic which grants IWND to the unit or the pseudo-tankhunter one.

Its a slow deathstar that gets shut down by one LOS blocker, cant split up to take multiple objectives.

Did I already mention how slow it is?

ryuken87 wrote:
Lias doesn't have Master of Ambush as his WT, he has Master of Manoeuvre (Outflank one unit, significantly worse).

I don't think you need to overcomplicate the unit, just take the Phosphor weapons and either the Relic which grants IWND to the unit or the pseudo-tankhunter one.

You are looking at the old badab character sheet (V1). V2 give him Master of Ambush. Its a common use of him.


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 Leth wrote:
Its a slow deathstar that gets shut down by one LOS blocker, cant split up to take multiple objectives.

Did I already mention how slow it is?

That was why I suggested infiltrating them. I can't think of another way to get them forward faster off the top of my head.


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 Orock wrote:
Its not run for the same reason I don't stick two men's and a buncha lootas in a stompa anymore. Its fun but very all your eggs in one basket. A group of necrons wraiths could tie that up all game. Hell with 3+ and 4+ reanimation you might eventually win for far far less. All a necron player would have to do is kill the vanguard to stop them dropping them to toughness 4.

Yeh Wraiths would definitely be an issue for this unit.

A friend of mine is playing this at a tournament this weekend and it's doing pretty well for him. Think it got stomped to death one game though.

Poly Ranger wrote:

ryuken87 wrote:
Lias doesn't have Master of Ambush as his WT, he has Master of Manoeuvre (Outflank one unit, significantly worse).

I don't think you need to overcomplicate the unit, just take the Phosphor weapons and either the Relic which grants IWND to the unit or the pseudo-tankhunter one.

You are looking at the old badab character sheet (V1). V2 give him Master of Ambush. Its a common use of him.

Cheers, wish FW would remove their old rules.

I've actually been trying to make them work with Lias and some blob guard. So far they've been tough to use correctly, They're a potent unit but they definitely have their weaknesses. The infiltrating trick can be nullified by a servo skull or some clever counter infiltration leaving them to slog across the board. Also, Grav cents rip this unit up, once a robot drops the majority armor save is a 2+. D also hurts this unit more then most due to how expensive each model is.

I find that leaving one or two robots with their power fists makes the unit a bit better against dreads and knights(both regular and of the wraith variety). So far I find that getting the most out of split fire is of paramount importance in this new MSU meta. You need to shoot 1-2 units to death a turn and assault another. I'm going to take this list to a few Nova prep tournies and depending on how it goes I might bring it to Nova. If that's the case I'll let you know how it holds up.

Excellent, thank you! Great to hear how its fared so far. Have you thought about tanking with 1 of the datasmiths so he drops first to make sure you don't drop to armour 2+ against grav, or heaven forbid majority toughness 4 if you lose 2 bots? Obviously that is easier said than done when pods arrive.

I've tried but as you said with pods, flyrants, and gating cents they can pretty much pick the model they want to target first. I have been running that BS 2 snap shot item as well as the IWND one. The snap shot one mainly for flyrants and demon princes but I've found it to add quite a bit pop to their regular overwatch. The IWND hasn't really paid off yet, people tend to either try to hit the star with overwhelming fire power thus killing multiple models in a turn, or completely ignore the unit and try to kill other units.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Excellent, thank you! Great to hear how its fared so far. Have you thought about tanking with 1 of the datasmiths so he drops first to make sure you don't drop to armour 2+ against grav, or heaven forbid majority toughness 4 if you lose 2 bots? Obviously that is easier said than done when pods arrive.

Poly Ranger wrote:

ryuken87 wrote:
Lias doesn't have Master of Ambush as his WT, he has Master of Manoeuvre (Outflank one unit, significantly worse).

I don't think you need to overcomplicate the unit, just take the Phosphor weapons and either the Relic which grants IWND to the unit or the pseudo-tankhunter one.

You are looking at the old badab character sheet (V1). V2 give him Master of Ambush. Its a common use of him.


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 Leth wrote:
Its a slow deathstar that gets shut down by one LOS blocker, cant split up to take multiple objectives.

Did I already mention how slow it is?

That was why I suggested infiltrating them. I can't think of another way to get them forward faster off the top of my head.


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 Orock wrote:
Its not run for the same reason I don't stick two men's and a buncha lootas in a stompa anymore. Its fun but very all your eggs in one basket. A group of necrons wraiths could tie that up all game. Hell with 3+ and 4+ reanimation you might eventually win for far far less. All a necron player would have to do is kill the vanguard to stop them dropping them to toughness 4.

Yeh Wraiths would definitely be an issue for this unit.

Its not a first turn thing, its a over the course of the game thing. It cant get from objective to objective, can only claim one at a time(without OS) can only move 6 a turn, cant split into multiple units. It basically means that it will be in one area of the board and do ehhh.... I mean lets look at a demi company. the full company with full razorbacks is less points that the cohort and will win ANY mission against it outside of kill points. It is not fast enough to do much and I could literally throw a razorback at it each turn to make it so it cant move more than 2-3 inches a turn.

There is almost no mission/tournament format that would support taking this kind of unit.

The main nail in its coffin is that it counts as 3 units and not 4. If it counted as 4 for canticles than it would be worth it. However with limited sources and the like..... Still I could see it at about 1000 points, take a librarian conclave, and then thunderwolves as a pretty solid army in three sources.

It's a very good point Leth. There is the advantage of being able to 'split fire' effectively at 4 different units, but that wouldn't help the scoring issue unless you actually wipe those units. The rest of the list would have to compensate, but that might be difficult with almost 800pts having been invested in one unit.
How difficult has this scenario been for you Helbig? And how have you tried to work around it?

Let me just sum it up with one example. You are not AP 2 so no explodes. IF you manage to jullpoint down my rhino, I now leave a wreck which I can then disembark behind. Now my 5 man unit is immune to the cohort until you can move around to the sides.

Totally see where you are coming from. It looks like it would be a nasty match up for the cohort, although their targetting of multiple units will be great against a gladius, it doesn't seem with the way you have put it as though it compensates for their poor ability to score. Of course the rest of the list plays a factor, but then the gladius usually has points left over for extra stuff too.

My main point is that it is completely nuetered in missions by something that doesnt even have to fire a shot to win.

Now imagine I am outflanking bikes and just come on piece meal going second. I can hide, you have no where to move towards so on and so forth.

Right now durability without mobility is pointless, unless you are playing on a empty flat table where they cant hide. Then yeah its pretty solid.

Main issue is that basically they can spend all game killing the other 1000 points you have and then just ignore your unit.

 Leth wrote:
Let me just sum it up with one example. You are not AP 2 so no explodes. IF you manage to jullpoint down my rhino, I now leave a wreck which I can then disembark behind. Now my 5 man unit is immune to the cohort until you can move around to the sides.

I see your point. I mean, if I shoot your rhino from 30-ish inches away, it'll take me AT LEAST 3 turns to move far enough to be able to see the marines that piled out the back, at which point those guys could have just been moving around to the other side, totally playing hide and seek and nullifying my entire 800 pt unit.

An advisor taps Voidwraith on the shoulder. "Hey boss, there are other enemy units out there in range of the Cohort Cybernetica formation, not to mention the rest of our army and what we have in reserves. If you'd like, we could..."

"Nevermind that you simpleton!" Voidwraith shouted, cutting the advisor off. "Those marines called my mother a harlot as they made their way out the back of their wrecked transport. They must pay for their sins! Call off the rest of the army...Now that we've opened up that one tin can, these robots are all we're going to use from here on out. Muahahahaha!!"
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I could have went on with some more ridiculous dialogue, but I think you get the point....

Speed is always a key for deathstar units, and usually the death of them at the same time.

They need a reliable pace or they plod around playing area denial.

Swarmlord with guard play this role great.
No one goes near them, but they dont do alot.


The only reliable deathstar units that are effective have speed on their side.