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In a way I really shouldn't be contributing to this thread. I won't be buying the 6th rulebook, I've left the GW universe for other games systems that are better and cheaper (still like the odd novel) and I'm too long in the tooth to get upset over plastic soldiers. That being said, people are passionate about their hobby, and rightly so as it is a very good hobby, but things could be a lot worse than allies in 6th

Fact: 9 out of every ten people moaning about 6th would gladly murder their fellow geek for a free rulebook

Hmm, a Battle Royale/Hunger games contest for free GW minis I bet it's happened somewhere!

Nids don't need allies because their codex rocks amiright?

Noisy_Marine wrote:Nids don't need allies because their codex rocks amiright?

Exactly. i think not only are they going to ban allies in tournaments for 6th, they are going to ban Codex: Tyranids.

IdentifyZero wrote:Except for the fact that Black Templars are expressly stated in their codex as being able to ally with Grey Knights and they are the only psykers they can ally with as well. Just a fact you may not have known, otherwise nice work. Looks almost identical to the allies matrix GW published for the tournament.

Thank you, here is the final version:

haroon wrote:

Noisy_Marine wrote:Nids don't need allies because their codex rocks amiright?

Exactly. i think not only are they going to ban allies in tournaments for 6th, they are going to ban Codex: Tyranids.

New rules really don't address some of the problems with Nid armies, most notably that all the best units are crammed into a few corners of the FOC. I think a new dex is still their best bet to get back to being competitive.

From the Tyranid Hive a few new bits:

up to four HQ with allies.

Tyranids can't ally, but apparently they get lots of Monstrous creature special rules added for their pleasure. Stomp, Impact Hits etc.

Any unit being charged can make a snap shot at BS 1. They use the full profile of the weapon. You can also use snapshot offensively, that meaning my tactical squad even if I move, I can shoot my Lascannon at BS 1. No template weapons, tanks benefit from this rule.

Run is not removed. Fleet means you can re-roll you run or re-roll one of the D6 to charge.

No assault after deepstrike.

Flyers are hit on 6's if they perform a Zoom maneuver.

up to four HQ with allies.

Wanted to make a perhaps slightly OT observation...where are the WD leaks? Isn't it pretty typical to have a WD leak just about a week before its release?

I wonder if GW finally wisened up and decided to send everything out overnight express to stores so the rather brave store owners can't leak anything...

Or I could just be impatient.

Therion wrote:

up to four HQ with allies.

So... Fateweaver, Bloodthirster, 2 CSM Princes and then 3 Daemon Princes in Heavy.

Let's do this.

Beamo wrote:

gannam wrote:yeah, my greyhunter squads would all be running around in chimeras with way more fireports.

Makes me chuckle just thinking about the site of spacewolves all hunkered down in an ork truck blasting fools.

pretty sure that happened in a Bill King novel at one point...

One of the ragnar novels (not sure which anymore) when they had to infiltrate an Ork camp and stole a truck to do so. That the one?

Cyrax wrote:Thank you, here is the final version:

Tau can ally with Eldar (missing) and Kroot with everyone who is willing to pay (depends on them getting an HQ in the next Codex).
Tyranids: forever alone but replete

So since Tyranids can't ally with anyone, it was said they geet MC boosts. So will these boosts be for Tyranids only?

No assault after deep strike makes daemons sad, but I am very curious how the deep-strike mishap table has been modified, if it even exists anymore.

Also is there any real credence to these alliances we are supposing right now, or is mainly based on fluff/our hopes/logic.

I think the alliance stuff could be very very fun, but you could make some very very unbalanced armies if they do not specify the restrictions, also I doubt they will ever be used in tournaments unless it is a huge part of the game.

BladeWalker wrote:

Therion wrote:

up to four HQ with allies.

So... Fateweaver, Bloodthirster, 2 CSM Princes and then 3 Daemon Princes in Heavy.

Let's do this.

Screw that. Space wolves + GK.

Ragnar, Logan, Bjorn, Njal, Coteaz, Draigo. SUPER FRIENDS, ASSEMBLE



And you might even have enough points for 2 scout squads and a single model paladin unit to make the army legal!

Here is some rumours I seen at The Tyranid Hive, but didn't see else where.

http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=38567&page=16

From General Chips

Courtesy of a friend from Games Workshop who has spent time with the Warhammer 40k 6th Edition rulebook. We (manager of my LGS) sent him a list of questions and these were his answers. Alot of IDK's, but some good stuff in there too.

Did the Force Org chart change?

No, the force org has not changed. It is still 1 HQ and 2 Troops. 3 Fast Attack, 3 Elites, 3 Heavy Support. Although, allies allows you in certain situati...ons to to add an HQ from another army and 1 Troop. You also, once you have satisfied the minimums can take 1 Fast, 1 Elite and 1 Heavy for you allies also. After your list is 2,000 pts, it appears you can double the Force Org chart. So up to four HQ with allies.


Is there pre-measuring for actions? (which ones?)

Pre-measure anytime and anywhere.

What AP are: Chain Swords, Power Swords, Power Fists, Chain Fists, Thunder Hammers?

I do not know.

Cover Save for: Buildings, Ruins, Area Terrain (trees and whatnot)?

Cover saves seem less forgiving. I would expect less, I know being in woods or trees is now 5+. Also, if you have (Example) 4 guys that are not in terrain. I, being the shooting player, can target just those guys that are not in cover. I have no opportunity to kill the guys in cover although. Interesting.

What is the assault / charge distance?

2D6

Do vehicles have hull points?

Yes

How are psychic powers determined?

Leadership tests, everyone can attempt to nullify a psychic power.

What is the turn sequence?

Normal?

How do rapid fire weapons work?

Rapid Fire appears to have not changed, that I saw...I don't know.

Is 'overwatch' (like Necromunda) in the rules - how does it work?

Snap Shot is the rule. Any unit being charged can make a snap shot at BS 1. They use the full profile of the weapon. You can also use snapshot offensively, that meaning my tactical squad even if I move, I can shoot my Lascannon at BS 1. No template weapons, tanks benefit from this rule.

Is there a defensive fire mechanic (snapfire) for units being assaulted in the rules - how does it work?

See above.

Can vehicles contest objectives?

I am not sure

Where does the red fern grow?

Somewhere in the Ozarks.

Will you declare and move types (like assault and/or run) in the move phase ala fantasy?

No

how will fleet usr work, especially if run is removed

Run is not removed. Fleet means you can re-roll you run or re-roll one of the D6 to charge.

Are flyers hit on 6's with shooting weapons and if true are there ways to mitigate that.

Flyers are hit on 6's if they perform a Zoom maneuver.

Details on how allies will work? Will it be on a codex by codex basis (eg CSM codex is rumored to allow IG and Chaos Demons via allies), with very specific unit allowances, more generic FOC based like the old demonhunter and witchhunter rules or fairly open ended anything goes.

There are three categories of allies. Lots of potential, I am not sure of the chart off the top of my head. CSM do get traitor guard, I also believe Demons. Tau have SM and Eldar. Lots of other arrangements. Tyranids get no one....but lots of Monstrous creature special rules added for their pleasure. Stomp, Impact Hits etc.

Details on how challeges will work? IC only? sgts and other models also involved? What about MCs and the like.

I dont know.

The AP of some other ccw's (rending, monstrous creatures, basic attacks, boneswords, two handed ccws,)

I dont know.

How will poison work in the new rules. Still rerolls if S equal or greater then T? Will the to wound number be adjusted at all (rumor that if you normally wound on 2+ then you use that number)

I dont know

Psychic defense and abilities for armies without psychers? Rumor that all units get a 6+ save against psychic powers. Another rumor that their might be ways for Tau etc to get psychers.

I believe everyone will have access to some sort of psyker. 6+ is true for everyone.

Example of new psychic power, maybe a default one and a super powerful one (assuming its like fantasy) and who would be able to take it in current codexes.

I dont know.

Whats the effect on embarked units when transport is damaged, wrecked, penned etc. Can they more easily go about their business like 5ed, or entagled like 4ed, or something in between.

Similar, not sure. Much harder to blow up vehicles. Vehicle Damage chart has change as well as Deep Strike Mishap has changed.

Affect of being open topped (good and bad)

Not sure, I believe it is the similar

Monstrous creature rules revamped at all? Like how do they get cover saves, are they more/less surviable, do they retain 2d6 pen, Ap of their cc attacks

Not sure, see above in allies for some info.

Rumor of changes to wound and to hit charts to be more like fantasy. True?

I am not sure

How will reserves work in the standard missions? Still always an option? Updates to determining when units arrive? Outflanking updated or same?

Normally it seems

Can you assault after deepstrike?

No

Changes to how units fire out of a vehicle (like say if it moves can only one model fire, is their range reduced, do they gain relentless)

None that I noticed

Does relentless add shots to weapon if statioanry and if so is it just rapid fire weapons or is it also assault

I do not know

Pistols work different now? Do they just add attack like a ccw or can they actually fire in cc.

I do not know this.

Assault weapons work different now? Can you still shoot and assault or ill they get some sort of ability to fire or affect on the charge?

I believe this is the same.

In other words: More of the same thing we've been hearing, and no real confirmation. This seems to me that a lot of this stemmed from one leak, and is just being re-hashed multiple times, with each person putting their own spin on it.

Until we get concrete confirmation, it could potentially be assumed that a lot of this could simply be trolling by rumor mongers looking for attention. However, even if it's legit, the rehashing still seems to be due to the "Lookie! I have information nobody else has!" mentality of some folks. I'm just ready to get my hands on a rulebook so I can check these rules out.

I'd also like to see what the Gamer and Collector's editions look like soon...I want to know if I'm gonna want to drop that cash on it.

Cyrax wrote:

IdentifyZero wrote:Except for the fact that Black Templars are expressly stated in their codex as being able to ally with Grey Knights and they are the only psykers they can ally with as well. Just a fact you may not have known, otherwise nice work. Looks almost identical to the allies matrix GW published for the tournament.

Thank you, here is the final version:

Spoiler:

Imperium
1)Black Templars: can ally 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 if they don't include Psykers (except 4).
2)Blood Angels: can ally 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 (with duel), 8, 11, 13, 15
3)Dark Angels: can ally 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 if they don't include abhumans.
4)Grey Knights: can ally 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 11, 13, 14, 15
5)Imperial Guard: can ally 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, (9, 10 as traitor guard), 11, 14, 15
6)Sisters of Battle: can ally 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7
7)Space Marines: can ally 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 11, 15
8)Space Wolves: can ally 1, 2, 3 (with duel), 4, 5, 7, 11, 15

Chaos
9)Chaos Daemons: can ally 5 (as traitor guard), 10
10)Chaos Space Marines: can ally 5 (as traitor guard), 9, 12 (Salamander novels), 14

Eldar
11)Eldar: can ally 4, 5, 7, 8, 14, 15
12)Dark Eldar: can ally 10 (Salamander novels), 11(kinship), 14

Others
13)Necrons: can ally 2, 4, 13, 14, 15

14)Orks: can ally 4, 5, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15 as mercenaries.

15)Tau Empire: can ally 2, 4, 5, 7 (Ultramarines), 8, 13, 14 (not if a Farsight army).

16)Tyranids: forever alone

Goresaw wrote:

BladeWalker wrote:

Therion wrote:

up to four HQ with allies.

So... Fateweaver, Bloodthirster, 2 CSM Princes and then 3 Daemon Princes in Heavy.

Let's do this.

Screw that. Space wolves + GK.

Ragnar, Logan, Bjorn, Njal, Coteaz, Draigo. SUPER FRIENDS, ASSEMBLE



And you might even have enough points for 2 scout squads and a single model paladin unit to make the army legal!

I'd play you.

Space wolves just need 1 ally. Enter the Emperors Champion! Hello preferred enemy!

Really, they should just separate the whole ally system from fluff to make it easier to make. A lot of the allies justifications (Necrons <3 Blood Angels, Tau <3 Space Marines) is pretty stupid to begin with. Give Nids Imperial Guard allies for all I care as long as it isn't justifited with fluff.

If the Monstrous Creatures have thunderstomp like abilities, I am sure a lot of Tyranid players will be happy, Allies or no.

And now I'm excited I'm getting an IG army from a friend.

Leman Russes with my Wolves? YEA BOI!

Hehe, okies I might be a fool for trusting internet rumour, but I said what the heck and picked up some Grey Knight Termies this afternoon.

A nasty surprise for the Mandrakes Aura has in her list.

Milez wrote:Space wolves just need 1 ally. Enter the Emperors Champion! Hello preferred enemy!

Well, that is assuming that special rules and effects are passed between factions. I mean, it would be awesome to slap some Tau gunlines down and have an IG CCS give them orders (unfortunately, FRFSRF specifically states models with lasguns, else it would be oh so broken), and have them shoot as if TL, or have the enemy re-roll cover saves...or using markerlights to give those Guardsmen infantry blobs BS4 with FRFSRF...Hrmmmm

Davor wrote:So since Tyranids can't ally with anyone, it was said they geet MC boosts. So will these boosts be for Tyranids only?

From what I can gather from the rumor moungers, they are for MC in general. And we do not know for sure if Tyranids are on thier own...that is just speculation from non-rumor moungers.

spectreoneone wrote:

Milez wrote:Space wolves just need 1 ally. Enter the Emperors Champion! Hello preferred enemy!

Well, that is assuming that special rules and effects are passed between factions. I mean, it would be awesome to slap some Tau gunlines down and have an IG CCS give them orders (unfortunately, FRFSRF specifically states models with lasguns, else it would be oh so broken), and have them shoot as if TL, or have the enemy re-roll cover saves...or using markerlights to give those Guardsmen infantry blobs BS4 with FRFSRF...Hrmmmm

How about anyone partnered with Necrons?

Prob not happen, but Tau + Necrons... Necrons make it nightfighting, Tau see through it easy...

Or Necrons with highly shooty armies and you use a death+despair squad and a triarch stalker.

I'm a tad concerned about the ramifications of snap fire on low-armour armies. What I mean is my ten woman squad of wyches charging into a squad of tactical marines and being blunted before even making it into base-to-base. I know the BS of the marines will be low, therefore making it hard to hit, but with only ten models in the wyches, the marines being able to fire everything bar template and blast weapons will mean only a few need to wound to hamper the wyches considerably. Horde armies could suffer the losses, wyches may well not. I'm assuming if you can fire a heavy weapon, rapid firing is allowed too. Understandably it's all out of context and perhaps the wyches being so close to the marines could well use their invulnerable save, so I'm simply worrying on the face value of the rule, but still...

These come to us via Chipstar from the Beltway Gamers forums: http://beltway-gamers.com/forums/index.php?/topic/1577-6th-edition-confirmed-rules/

[10:35:09] <source> Ok
[10:35:13] <source> so GW is spoilin 6E
[10:35:15] <source> over the phone
[10:35:23] <source> allies chart is in for sure, a matrix
[10:40:13] <source> you need 1 HQ 2 Troop of your own army
[10:40:26] <source> then you can ally, need 1 HQ 1 Troop of that army
[10:40:31] <source> then may take other slots
[10:45:49] <source> it's still move shoot assault
[10:46:01] <source> "snapshop" = stand and shoot for an assaulted unit
[10:46:20] <source> BS1
[10:46:58] <source> no template or blast
[10:47:32] <source> someone gimme a BoLS link so I can confirm/deny gak
[10:48:04] <source> "schools of psychic powers"
[10:48:11] <source> not sure if its random though
[10:50:44] <source> these psychic powers are IN ADDITION to your codex powers
[10:51:11] <source> so you don't lose any of the powers in a current codex
[10:52:25] <source> premeasure all the time
[10:52:40] <source> random charges 2d6 for foot, 3d6 drop lowest for jump pack troops
[10:53:05] <source> jump pack troops get "hammer of wrath" = impact hits, 1 A @ I 10, normwal weapon normal attack
[10:53:35] <source> for jump packs, not sure about wings, maybe
[10:53:41] <source> he only got to look at the book for an hour
[10:53:46] <source> to "pick topics for customers"
[11:00:13] <source> 6 missions, and 3 deployment zones
[11:00:23] <source> primary and 3 secondary objectives
[11:00:28] <source> vps for objectives
[11:00:35] <chip> source
[11:00:37] <chip> you have the book?
[11:00:45] <chip> oh, over the phone
[11:00:48] <source> yeh
[11:01:02] <source> "first blood" = 2nd objective
[11:01:09] <source> worth 1 vp
[11:01:37] <source> any questions chip?
[11:01:42] <source> I got him for like 10 mins more maybe ;p
[11:01:50] <chip> can special characters be brought as allies
[11:02:07] <source> he didn't see any limit on it no
[11:02:25] <source> no more dawn of war, no more spearhead
[11:02:41] <source> one is like triangles
[11:02:44] <source> cleanse 2?
[11:02:47] <chip> vehicle damage chart info?
[11:03:13] <source> as in?
[11:03:27] <chip> 1's stacking to destroyed? hull points?
[11:03:30] <chip> either/or/and
[11:04:20] <source> short edge to short edge deployment type
[11:04:21] <source> lol
[11:04:52] <chip> no fething way
[11:05:13] <chip> Can you get info about different CCW AP values
[11:05:20] <source> he didn't look at that
[11:05:26] <source> I did ask, there is somethin about CCWs
[11:05:37] <source> power weapon is AP2

[11:06:35] <chip> You sure about that? Pretty confident people said AP3
[11:07:45] <source> there is a hull point systemm, damage chart changed
[11:08:03] <source> 1-2 shaked 3 = stuned 4 = weapon destroyed 5 = wrecked 6 = kablam
[11:08:25] <source> he didnt seen an immobile on the chart
[11:08:42] <source> he just "Saw that it said AP2, not sure what it was about"
[11:09:20] <chip> oh crazy
[11:10:05] <source> terrain is a part of the FoC
[11:10:13] <source> aegis defense line 50pts
[11:10:27] <source> cover is 5+
[11:11:18] <chip> wow
[11:11:21] <chip> thats way cheaper than i thought
[11:11:39] <chip> any example psychic powers?

[11:12:31] <source> nope
[11:12:42] <source> "fortifcation FOC slot"
[11:13:09] <source> 1 per game
[11:14:38] <chip> so no tables full of terrain
[11:15:57] <source> err sorry 1 per player per game
[11:16:25] <source> rapid fire is half range not 12"
[11:17:47] <chip> oh interesting
[11:17:51] <source> rapid fire isnt limited by movement
[11:17:52] <chip> but aren't rapid fire guns 24"
[11:17:55] <chip> so half range is 12"
[11:18:09] <source> snapshot is also for HWs that have moved
[11:18:52] <chip> wait, so you can fire a krak missile as a snapshot?
[11:19:06] <source> yes
[11:19:10] <source> BS1
[11:19:22] <source> heavy bolter that moves = 3 shots at BS1
[11:20:54] <chip> thats insane

Milez wrote:Space wolves just need 1 ally. Enter the Emperors Champion! Hello preferred enemy!

Funny, but no. The vows affects Black Templars Last I checked, those fanged werewolf inbred vikings, well, they were not crusading Black Templars. Even if you did that, the vows would only work on the Black Templar units.

Exact wording: "In close combat, BLACK TEMPLARS units count as having the Preferred Enemy special rule against the enemy army. Neophytes do not benefit from this vow and hit normally etc..."

just speculating, perhaps if your unit has frag grenades (or an equivalent) then they dissalow the charged unit from making a snap shot, would make sense as it would force the guys to get away from the ball of explosive death opposed to popping off shots. just speculating of course and I doubt it will happen, wonder if frag grenades will play the same role or if thye have changed a bit. suppose we'll see soon