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Chopxsticks wrote:
So is it too soon to hope for a Mordheim reboot as well?

Rumored for 2018.

nou wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Well, I'm pleasantly surprised with the peeks so far. (Mainly the use of a Movement value and the thickness of the rulebook). As I've said in my posts I would love GW to prove me wrong about this being a thin-skinned intro-game reboot of a great game.

I also will laugh my ass off if it's borderline 2nd ed. rules and people start clamoring how much they like them...

Or that people who are advocates of 'to hit' and 'rend' modifiers as "streamlining fixes" to 7th ed actually get to know how much in-game calculation this aproach actually requires And I suspect a lot of endless debates about model facing being a factor and how exactly should it be measured

Jokes aside, return of 2nd ed rules in their full glory is a moment worth witnessing

I like 2nd edition rules and play them often. They don't pretend to be simple or streamlined and do what they do. Much more amenable to tinkering and changing to what one requires from them, as often encouragd by GW back then. In fact, I really only play RT or 2nd now - game is too complex and needy now.

tneva82 wrote:
Calculation? Simple ones you can count in fraction of second. Of course most of the time don't even need to

Have you actually played 2nd ed/Necromunda? In proper Necromunda you are most likely calculating them always. Of course this is basic math not rocket science, but if you have to calculate roll value before each and every roll in the game, checking range modifiers, cover modifiers, running from/into cover modifiers in overwatch, small/large model modifiers, applying it to BS table and finally roll the dice then it is clear, that applying same system to modern large scale 40K battles would be a disaster. And it realy doesn't take "a fraction of a second" because you must say your calculation factors out loud to your oponent. It is a great system and I'm very happy that it gets reintroduced, but even more glad, that it is reintroduced where it shines the most.

Might have to start some GSC.

What do you think the standard points value will be? I shouldn't need more than 10 neophytes.

BOLS are stating that this is $130

Not seeing any other GW boxed games on the website at that though - BAC and BOP are both $150, the others considerably cheaper.

Was hoping for closer to £60 rather than the £90odd

$130 is awfully steep, but this is BoLS we're talking about here..

Is there an actual release date for Shadow Wars yet?

Just says April as release date.. but GW has also said they have more surprises for Adepticon..
But my guess would be do a big push there with the preorders the same weekend would be a great idea..
Then release the next week on April first.. but that is what I would do

$130 for what sounds like an IK: Renegade sized box of terrain that also has a cool game and some rando models tossed in as well? Sounds solid to me.

[MOD EDIT - Been asked that a PM be kept Private, so please do not post it here - thanks! - Alpharius]

From Anthony Case: "Okay took a punt and messaged the SG fella on facebook who seemed to confirm it's not an SG release so it's possible they might do their own Necro release.

Wild theory: SG have been working on a Necro release, GW saw what a great job they're doing and decided to pilfer the rules for a low effort boxed set of their own."


So, this is really a redone Kill Team, with the real Necromunda still a possibility in the future.

 Elbows wrote:


I also will laugh my ass off if it's borderline 2nd ed. rules and people start clamoring how much they like them...

So if SW:A is a precursor to 8th edition, 8th edition will use 2nd edition 40K as its base?

 Ghaz wrote:

1.) The Neophyte Heavy is the only one with access to the Heavy Weapon. 2.) The Neophyte Hybrid is a 'Trooper' while the Neophyte Heavy is a 'Specialist'. I imagine you'll only be able to take a limited number of 'Specialists', which you may not want to waste by not giving them a weapon from the Heavy Weapon list.

In Necromunda, only Leaders and Heavies had the Specialist skill at the start of the game. Juves and regular gangers had the possibility of gaining the Specialist skill with lucky rolls on the advance roll and skill tables. The Specialist skill allows the character to use special weapons (plasma gun, melta gun, etc.).

 squall018 wrote:
But he can be equipped with special weapons just like the initiate and has the same stat line... so if this is correct, just spam heavies even if you don't actually equip them with heavy weapons.

As others have said, Heavies were limited to two per gang, and not all gangs could even have Heavies.

 Kinetochore wrote:
BOLS are stating that this is $130

Not seeing any other GW boxed games on the website at that though - BAC and BOP are both $150, the others considerably cheaper.

Was hoping for closer to £60 rather than the £90odd

Fairly large terrain piece and about £60 in models, right? I'd have pegged it at the £80 mark

nou wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Calculation? Simple ones you can count in fraction of second. Of course most of the time don't even need to

Have you actually played 2nd ed/Necromunda? In proper Necromunda you are most likely calculating them always. Of course this is basic math not rocket science, but if you have to calculate roll value before each and every roll in the game, checking range modifiers, cover modifiers, running from/into cover modifiers in overwatch, small/large model modifiers, applying it to BS table and finally roll the dice then it is clear, that applying same system to modern large scale 40K battles would be a disaster.

I'm not all that familiar with Necromunda, but 2nd edition was probably my favourite edition of 40k. The modifiers really aren't an issue. WHFB also used modifiers up until it was killed. It's just counting, over the course of a 1 or 2 hour game you might spend a couple of minutes counting out the modifiers, no biggy.

40k is already a disaster for so many reasons, can't say I'm too concerned about a few modifiers here and there. Part of 40k's current mess is GW treating gamers like morons who can't add and subtract.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

If they brought out a new game called 'Necromunda' I'd jump for joy. What is so fething difficult about that to understand?

Let's just clear this up once and for all. They're releasing a game that seems to be an updated Necromunda in everything but name and fluff and that's no good. The original Necromunda that you already own at home is also no good, because it's not in print. What you want is for GW to sell you an exact reprint of what you already own with a new copyright date on it?

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

If they brought out a new game called 'Necromunda' I'd jump for joy. What is so fething difficult about that to understand?

Let's just clear this up once and for all. They're releasing a game that seems to be an updated Necromunda in everything but name and fluff and that's no good. The original Necromunda that you already own at home is also no good, because it's not in print. What you want is for GW to sell you an exact reprint of what you already own with a new copyright date on it?

I see you've met the nostalgia brigade.

Terrain looks great! More boyz won't hurt and so that leaves the scouts... hmmm, sure someone will take them off my hands.

timd wrote:

 squall018 wrote:
But he can be equipped with special weapons just like the initiate and has the same stat line... so if this is correct, just spam heavies even if you don't actually equip them with heavy weapons.

As others have said, Heavies were limited to two per gang, and not all gangs could even have Heavies.

Which is 100% irrelevant.

IF you have basic guy at 50 pts and heavy at 10 pts and heavy can take same guns as normal guy it's irrelevant if heavy weapons cost 1000 pts! Everybody and their dog would take max amount of heavies anyway. Why not? Same guy for cheaper price. You could get extra regular guy with points to spare by taking two 10 pts heavies.

Actually taking heavy is BETTER idea as he COULD take heavy weapon in future. Regular guy won't.

Scarcity IS NOT reason to discount price. Guy needs to pay for his abilities same as other whether you can take 1 or 100 of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nou wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Calculation? Simple ones you can count in fraction of second. Of course most of the time don't even need to

Have you actually played 2nd ed/Necromunda? In proper Necromunda you are most likely calculating them always.

We play 2nd ed currently.

If I get -1 from range I don't HAVE to calculate to know that BS3 guy hits on 5+. It's instict. I spend zero nanoseconds figuring it out.

Range and soft cover. 6+. Boom.

In practice there's not so many different combinations you learn them by heart quickly.

And it realy doesn't take "a fraction of a second" because you must say your calculation factors out loud to your oponent.

Do I? Haven't done that in years.

Alendrel wrote:
$130 for what sounds like an IK: Renegade sized box of terrain that also has a cool game and some rando models tossed in as well? Sounds solid to me.

Hardly.. If you compare it to board games this is basically DOA at 130$. You can get many high quality games for 60-80$ that come with objectively more useful models than old scouts and ork boys. If you think the terrain alone is worth 130$ then go for it? However, the models listed have virtually 0 value on the market.

What is DOA ?


That rulebook certainly look big. This is promising

Dead on arrival

tneva82 wrote:

timd wrote:

 squall018 wrote:
But he can be equipped with special weapons just like the initiate and has the same stat line... so if this is correct, just spam heavies even if you don't actually equip them with heavy weapons.

As others have said, Heavies were limited to two per gang, and not all gangs could even have Heavies.

Which is 100% irrelevant.

IF you have basic guy at 50 pts and heavy at 10 pts and heavy can take same guns as normal guy it's irrelevant if heavy weapons cost 1000 pts! Everybody and their dog would take max amount of heavies anyway. Why not? Same guy for cheaper price. You could get extra regular guy with points to spare by taking two 10 pts heavies.

Actually taking heavy is BETTER idea as he COULD take heavy weapon in future. Regular guy won't.

Scarcity IS NOT reason to discount price. Guy needs to pay for his abilities same as other whether you can take 1 or 100 of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nou wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Calculation? Simple ones you can count in fraction of second. Of course most of the time don't even need to

Have you actually played 2nd ed/Necromunda? In proper Necromunda you are most likely calculating them always.

We play 2nd ed currently.

If I get -1 from range I don't HAVE to calculate to know that BS3 guy hits on 5+. It's instict. I spend zero nanoseconds figuring it out.

Range and soft cover. 6+. Boom.

In practice there's not so many different combinations you learn them by heart quickly.

And it realy doesn't take "a fraction of a second" because you must say your calculation factors out loud to your oponent.

Do I? Haven't done that in years.

Ok, when you play any edition for 20+ years then typical modifier combinations are indeed learned by heart at that point... My 2nd ed Eldar had a full mix of models with BS ranging from 3 to 7 (10 incl Avatar) and weapon to hit modifiers ranging from -1 to +2 at different ranges. Count in cover, run, overwatch and holosuit modifiers and there is realy to many combinations for practical "learning by heart". Even a relatively small game including Guardians, some Aspects, Exarch, Warlock, Farseer and Harlequin Troupe has no "standard BS", not even "a majority BS". After 4 years of relatively infrequent playing I still had to look at an aid sheet in many practical cases.

 Kirasu wrote:

Hardly.. If you compare it to board games this is basically DOA at 130$. You can get many high quality games for 60-80$ that come with objectively more useful models than old scouts and ork boys. If you think the terrain alone is worth 130$ then go for it? However, the models listed have virtually 0 value on the market.

Of course you can.
What you're missing is "made by GW". Remember that for many people on dakka, this is the most important part.

#sigh

nou wrote:
Ok, when you play any edition for 20+ years then typical modifier combinations are indeed learned by heart at that point... My 2nd ed Eldar had a full mix of models with BS ranging from 3 to 7 (10 incl Avatar) and weapon to hit modifiers ranging from -1 to +2 at different ranges. Count in cover, run, overwatch and holosuit modifiers and there is realy to many combinations for practical "learning by heart". Even a relatively small game including Guardians, some Aspects, Exarch, Warlock, Farseer and Harlequin Troupe has no "standard BS", not even "a majority BS". After 4 years of relatively infrequent playing I still had to look at an aid sheet in many practical cases.

20 years? Your estimate is wrong by about 90%. Think more like 2 years.

Neronoxx wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

If they brought out a new game called 'Necromunda' I'd jump for joy. What is so fething difficult about that to understand?

Let's just clear this up once and for all. They're releasing a game that seems to be an updated Necromunda in everything but name and fluff and that's no good. The original Necromunda that you already own at home is also no good, because it's not in print. What you want is for GW to sell you an exact reprint of what you already own with a new copyright date on it?

I see you've met the nostalgia brigade.

Blood Bowl says hello to its little friend, ignorance.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Only time I saw someone win against Genestealer Cults was when two gangs (Orlock and Escher) joined forces to take on the big Genestealer Cult we had in the campaign. One of the Eschers, a girl with 2 swords and the parry skill managed to stay alive long enough to win, but the Orlock and Ratskin helper both went down (and the Ratskin got converted to the Cult after the game!!!).

Absolutely glourious. Necromunda was just such a wonderful ruleset for realising the narrative potential of the 40K background. By the looks of it, this games is an even bigger toolkit than Necromunda but probably comes at the cost of compromising the background, trying to shove all these races into one skirmish game. Providing your group is fairly restrictive (I guess Imperial Guard, Orks, Hive Gangers and maybe marines) then you can recapture a significant portion of the narrative strength of Necromunda. Those who care less about convincing background can open up to Necrons, Tau, Tyranids, etc.

GW truly have turned a page in catering to the veterans if (as it seems) this is just a repeat of the Necromunda rules with more races. I'll pick up the rules and have Gangers and Steel Legion fighting left over Orks from the 2nd war (I much prefer the background for the 2nd than the 3rd war).

Joyboozer wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Let's just clear this up once and for all. They're releasing a game that seems to be an updated Necromunda in everything but name and fluff and that's no good. The original Necromunda that you already own at home is also no good, because it's not in print. What you want is for GW to sell you an exact reprint of what you already own with a new copyright date on it?

I see you've met the nostalgia brigade.

Blood Bowl says hello to its little friend, ignorance.

Blood Bowl came out with a ton of excellent new models and high-quality gaming aids. That kind of stuff lowers the barrier of entry for new players by getting them excited- I can personally attest to that, as we have a good-sized BB league running now involving players who have never owned a mini in their life before. And really that's the problem with running nostalgia games- you need fresh blood, and that's hard to get with an old game that's not in print.

Neat terrain aside, Shadow War doesn't really do that. Scouts and Orks are about the most bland models you could think of for a game that's built around fun and characterful warbands. Having the rules for other factions is great, but it does seem to have come at the expense of some background flavor.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

Hardly.. If you compare it to board games this is basically DOA at 130$. You can get many high quality games for 60-80$ that come with objectively more useful models than old scouts and ork boys. If you think the terrain alone is worth 130$ then go for it? However, the models listed have virtually 0 value on the market.

Of course you can.
What you're missing is "made by GW". Remember that for many people on dakka, this is the most important part.

#sigh

Maybe because GW are the ones, that produce 40k products with minis and noone else? Maybe because their kits are customizable and other board games don`t have that? And what are those "more useful models" exactly?
GW products are easier to get, more people are into games sold by them due to that (among other reasons), and as an overall package people find more value in their products?

So "made by GW" holds those qualities behind it, it`s not just a Lacoste croc.

Note, that I didn`t say anything about price or rules GW puts out (like they are leaders in these aspects), so you can save your occusations of me being a fanboy

 Kirasu wrote:

Hardly.. If you compare it to board games this is basically DOA at 130$. You can get many high quality games for 60-80$ that come with objectively more useful models than old scouts and ork boys. If you think the terrain alone is worth 130$ then go for it? However, the models listed have virtually 0 value on the market.

Yeah, I think the BOLS price is BS. Compare it to any of the recent game releases, but especially Calth, Prospero and Overkill for minis content. Terrain is nice, but not that great and should not push the box price that high.

T

 Formerly Wu wrote:


Scouts and Orks are about the most bland models you could think of for a game that's built around fun and characterful warbands. Having the rules for other factions is great, but it does seem to have come at the expense of some background flavor.

Yup. As an Orc player I don`t mind having 10 extra boys for the horde, but it`s really damn boring. Although with a million extra bits lying about that kit becomes a good base for conversions. Unlike scouts...

Even just GC Neophytes vs Skitarii rangers would make it more exciting. :(

Haven't seen these pics from Shadow War posted yet (From 'Watch It Played' on Twitter):

Hmm.. do those photocopy rules mean there will be a PDF download version of the rules so you don't need to buy the whole box set to play?